165 réponses à ce sujet

[hexaligned]

Abriael_CG wrote...

relhart wrote...

The thing about Morrowind and Oblivion, is that they are more about exploring and adventuring than they are about a linear story line.

The problem about this whole "exploration" horse that bethesda's fans beat to death every time is that for exploration to be fun there has to be something interesting to explore.
Bethesda's "worlds" (more like small regions, given their lilliputian size) don't really have anything to explore. All the dungeons are the same (just the same tiles rearranged), all the keeps are the same, all the caves are the same, with no real lore to them and a few generic enemies slapped inside.

Honestly, i don't feel the drive to "explore" something that has no real lanmarks to speak of...

I don't disagree, but limited as it was, it was still light years ahead of anything DAO has in terms on nonlinear gamepay, and character freedom.  I like both games for what they are, but both have things that could have been much better about them.

[jreist]

I really liked Morrowind, but I never beat it because I would put it down for a few months and forget what I was doing and feel the need to start over. Oblivion did nothing for me. I found it very glichy and nothing really sucked me in.



I LOVED Fallout 3. I found some days I would turn it on and spend 4 hours just wandering around seeing what I could find. I thought it had a pretty good story and you actions changed how people looked at you. Until I bought DA:O it was about the only game I was playing.



I have had Dragon Age for about a month now and have completed the game once and am well into my second character. The characters are what really do it for me with DA:O. I love the banter they have with each other as you wander around. Its great that characters and NPCs all have different personalities and backgrounds. I think they did a really good job fleshing out the history of the world. I think I have spent at least a couple hours reading through the codex learning about Feraldin and its surrounding areas. Honestly I am pretty sure I put more time into Dragon Age in this month than I put into Fallout 3 in nearly a year, and I had a bunch of time put into Fallout 3.

[Bibdy]

Its been rather humbling to witness first hand how difficult it is to replicate even 5 minutes of play-time in the toolset of the quality of the main DA:O product. The amount of attention to detail is pretty remarkable, particularly in the cutscenes and dialogue. All of the facial animations, camera angle shifts, unimportant characters animating and fidgetting in the background, even down to the eye movement and where the character is looking at various moments, on top of the awesome voice acting. It all comes together to really bring the game to life.

[Tankkiller1337]

Abriael_CG wrote...

relhart wrote...

The thing about Morrowind and Oblivion, is that they are more about exploring and adventuring than they are about a linear story line.

The problem about this whole "exploration" horse that bethesda's fans beat to death every time is that for exploration to be fun there has to be something interesting to explore.
Bethesda's "worlds" (more like small regions, given their lilliputian size) don't really have anything to explore. All the dungeons are the same (just the same tiles rearranged), all the keeps are the same, all the caves are the same, with no real lore to them and a few generic enemies slapped inside.

Honestly, i don't feel the drive to "explore" something that has no real lanmarks to speak of...

I can't an dont want argue with someone who is THAT biased. By all means I love Dragon Age Origins and it is as an instant classic in my collection. Go play Oblivion and invest some time for once and install some mods (MODS ARE NEVER A NEGATIV, EVEN IF YOU REQUIRE SOME TO HAVE GOOD GAME).
Your arguments sound just as if they were copy pasted of some page, so **** them.

Trying to compare DAO and Oblivion is silly. As I said befor:


DAO = Awesome Plot, Immersive World, well defined characters
Oblivion = Action packed combat, Overwhelming feeling when entering the huge world (it is huge, please dont argue with that it's like saying the DAO characters are dull because they just ahve their predefined lines and after that they say nothing new), Assassins Guild, Replayability in the millions without repeating many stuff because of mods which let you play hundreds of hours (literally, if you played that way you know it).

tl:dr: Just read the ****ing post or dont answer!

[Gunny5821]

I've played and completed the main quest lines and 95% of all of the side quests for each game; NWN (Plus all of the expansions), NWN 2 (Plus all of the expansions) Morrowind (Plus all of the expansions), Oblivion (Plus all of the expansions), Fable and DAO (Plus all of the DLC thus far). With out a question DAO has put a new spin on things and has made the replay factor in the other games all but mute! I have played the Human Noble Warrior (male) in DAO to the end, completeing about 90% of side quests. I am currently setting up an Elf Mage (male) for my 2nd run through.



So let me ask about a different game, which I have just bought this past weekend, RISEN. I probably purchased it at a bad time, because I also purchased ME2 CE, which got delivered yesterday, and have installed it and all of the extra's, but haven't gotten past that point yet. I am trying to finsih the ME prior to actually starting ME2 as I hear it makes the gaming experience all that much better.



So, has anyone played RISEN and are able to offer any comparisons? I would be interested to know them...



Gunny

[DMTyrisis]

DA:O is a great game in its own rite, but I think Fallout 3 holds the title right now.

[Feraele]

Bibdy wrote...

Its been rather humbling to witness first hand how difficult it is to replicate even 5 minutes of play-time in the toolset of the quality of the main DA:O product. The amount of attention to detail is pretty remarkable, particularly in the cutscenes and dialogue. All of the facial animations, camera angle shifts, unimportant characters animating and fidgetting in the background, even down to the eye movement and where the character is looking at various moments, on top of the awesome voice acting. It all comes together to really bring the game to life.

Thats very interesting..I wouldn't know how to make a mod, but I do respect others that can and do.  Interesting perspective. thanks

[Abriael_CG]

Tankkiller1337 wrote...

I can't an dont want argue with someone who is THAT biased. By all means I love Dragon Age Origins and it is as an instant classic in my collection. Go play Oblivion and invest some time for once and install some mods (MODS ARE NEVER A NEGATIV, EVEN IF YOU REQUIRE SOME TO HAVE GOOD GAME).
Your arguments sound just as if they were copy pasted of some page, so **** them.

Ain't it awesome when people talk without knowing what they're talking about? 
You might like to know that I was an active member of the Oblivion modding community and one of the most active companion-makers (because bethesda was too lazy to actually code companions into the game, so the community had to introduce those by themselves).

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you had my "Abriael's Human Races Revamped" (name rings a bell?) or some of my companion packages installed on your own PC.

My installation of Oblivion is around 46 gigs. So yes, I do know how Oblivion plays when modded.

Oblivion = Action packed combat, Overwhelming feeling when entering the huge world (it is huge, please dont argue with that it's like saying the DAO characters are dull because they just ahve their predefined lines and after that they say nothing new), Assassins Guild, Replayability in the millions without repeating many stuff because of mods which let you play hundreds of hours (literally, if you played that way you know it).

"huge"? It depicts an "empire", and it I can cross it from Anvil to Cheydinhal in 15 minutes on horseback. It's actually smaller than a modern city, area-wise. That alone is an immense immersion breaker.

Mods are definitely not something we should thank Bethesda for (other than them being lazy and releasing a sub-par game with a toolset, so that the community could polish their game for them). You can thank the hundreds of dedicated modders that busted their rear in order to make a game that doesn't go beyond "half decent" actually enjoyable.
Bethesda has absolutely no reason to be praised for it, because without the modding community their game would be nothing.

Give DA:O time, and it's modding community will surpass the Oblivion one by far, given the much broader capabilities of the toolset. 3 months after release, the oblivion modding community was much, much less developed than what the DA:O has now already.
Mind you, yesterday someone uploaded a Korean translation of the game. let the floodgates of asian modders open, and then you'll see.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 29 janvier 2010 - 12:40 .

[Noobius_Maximo]

Oblivion is a mediocre game, and far inferior to Dragon Age.

[illerianna]

BioWare and Bethesda are both great game developers.

Fallout 3 is wonderful for me, because I live in Virginia, and wandering around the smoldering ruins of my home state is just pure win.

DA:O is wonderful for me because it offers a new world to explore.

But, really, the fanbois here will tear you to shreds if you even say one negative word about BW. Don't try it. Like one poster said oh-so-perfectly, though I'll probably quote this wrong, "The legions will be here to defend the teat on which they suckle." Honestly, they must think being a rabid fanboi will get them brownie-points with BW.

Oblivion, FO3, DA:O, KotOR, and many games from both devs are WONDERFUL in their way. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and just because you foam at the mouth if someone "disses" your favourite game, does not make your opinion so. I'm sure we could sit here and pull reasons why Oblivion and FO3 (and DA:O for that matter) suck out of our asses all day, but, my dear fanbois, I'll just let you ****** over copies of BW games in peace.

And, time to get FLAEMED, but I have an (OMG) opinion too.

Half-Life is way more awesome than DA:O. Mmm, Gordon Freeman. Alistair needs a sword and shield to fight. Gordon needs a crowbar.

[DOHdragon2009]

Obviously, there is a game that needs to be made combining the best of both. I would love a massive world to explore, like Oblivion/Morrowind. That combined with the characters and storytelling from Dragon Age would be a very impressive thing. The difference (since I'm playing both at the moment) is that Dragon Age feels very "directed" as far as travel is concerned. You go where you can go and then you smack into Mr. Invisible Barrier. There is something to be said for aiming yourself in a direction and just heading out, and Oblivion does that. You can find the right spot and just watch the sun come up if you like. What Dragon Age does better is a sense of momentum - you have powerful reasons to go somewhere, driven by the characters and story. You get a sense of a place full of people, which is what I've ended up adding to Oblivion with Mods. That said, I've never played a game before where I spent time wondering how an NPC was going to react before. I mean, I feel nervous that this or that "person" isn't going to like some choice I've made. It's a remarkable element of Dragon Age.



Also, there have been hundreds of games that have tried to make a devil may care wiseass, and Dragon Age actually got the job done. Alistair is well written and well acted and they managed to make him complex.



If you haven't played Oblivion you should certainly give it a shot; as far as quality it is the previous benchmark for a game. It is different in a good way. Now, if we can get these developers to borrow from each other...

[Monica21]

DOHdragon2009 wrote...
You can find the right spot and just watch the sun come up if you like.

I'm sorry to single out this quote, but what purpose does my character have in watching the sun come up? Why would she care? This is too reminiscent of people who made up "routines" for their character, like making the PC go to sleep every night, eating three solid meals a day and having a bath in the morning. It's not driven by the game, it's driven by the player's need to have something to do.

Good RPGs are not about the player, they're about the character.

[Deldarian]

I think i may be just a bit biased, because I enjoyed the Original Baldur's Gate like 10x more than Fallout 3, but that just may be me. Heck, BG had plenty to explore lol, and often all the areas had backstories, or at least interesting enemies etc.

[leftEdge]

Benzii wrote...

Well i loved DA so much i decided to buy kotor off steam to see what that was like and WOW Bioware do know how to make awsome games

omgomgomg I love kotor SO much. Best. Game.Ever. FACT. Proven by scientists in labs.

[illerianna]

Monica21 wrote...

DOHdragon2009 wrote...
You can find the right spot and just watch the sun come up if you like.

I'm sorry to single out this quote, but what purpose does my character have in watching the sun come up? Why would she care? This is too reminiscent of people who made up "routines" for their character, like making the PC go to sleep every night, eating three solid meals a day and having a bath in the morning. It's not driven by the game, it's driven by the player's need to have something to do.

Good RPGs are not about the player, they're about the character.

And must everything be action-packed, "OHS NOEZ! TEH WURLD IS ENDING ASDFGHJKL;'"?

No. I guess your character is a "I must haves blud and guts AHMAHGAWD action", and that's fine, but none of mine are. Watching the sunset with a favourite companion is something meaningful to me. Much like Alistair said with his rose, "It's good to find something beautiful amidst all this darkness". It is not always "because the player needs something to do", not at all. It IS a Role-Playing Game, and in MY role, amidst all the blood and the impending doom, I'd much rather be able to sit back and connect with my character or companions. So please, don't generalize all the "fluff" as something because a player is bored.

At least for me, it's something I enjoy doing, and your post just came off as "If you don't play like I do, you're an idiot and a fail gamer".

[ExistsAlready]

My entire experience of Oblivion is utterly marred by the dungeons. I don't find pitch black fun. Realistic, maybe but not fun.

You can't possibly know how pleased I was to walk into the Deep Trenches and not be assaulted by an endless void.

That and the Origins all blew Oblivion's opening out of the water. Dark underdungeons and rats don't compare to violent political intrige or violent wedding days. Even with Patrick Stewart.

Modifié par ExistsAlready, 28 janvier 2010 - 12:54 .

[Bibdy]

ExistsAlready wrote...

My entire experience of Oblivion is utterly marred by the dungeons. I don't find pitch black fun. Realistic, maybe but not fun.

You can't possibly know how pleased I was to walk into the Deep Trenches and not be assaulted by an endless void.

That and the Origins all blew Oblivion's opening out of the water. Dark underdungeons and rats don't compare to violent political intrige or violent wedding days. Even with Patrick Stewart.

Lol, Oblivion had one of the funniest intro's ever for me.

"Yeah, yeah, come on, let's go kill some stuf...wait. I recognise that voice. Holy ****, that's Patrick Stew-oh he's dead".

[Monica21]

illerianna wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

DOHdragon2009 wrote...
You can find the right spot and just watch the sun come up if you like.

I'm sorry to single out this quote, but what purpose does my character have in watching the sun come up? Why would she care? This is too reminiscent of people who made up "routines" for their character, like making the PC go to sleep every night, eating three solid meals a day and having a bath in the morning. It's not driven by the game, it's driven by the player's need to have something to do.

Good RPGs are not about the player, they're about the character.

And must everything be action-packed, "OHS NOEZ! TEH WURLD IS ENDING ASDFGHJKL;'"?

No. I guess your character is a "I must haves blud and guts AHMAHGAWD action", and that's fine, but none of mine are. Watching the sunset with a favourite companion is something meaningful to me. Much like Alistair said with his rose, "It's good to find something beautiful amidst all this darkness". It is not always "because the player needs something to do", not at all. It IS a Role-Playing Game, and in MY role, amidst all the blood and the impending doom, I'd much rather be able to sit back and connect with my character or companions. So please, don't generalize all the "fluff" as something because a player is bored.

At least for me, it's something I enjoy doing, and your post just came off as "If you don't play like I do, you're an idiot and a fail gamer".

Wow, that's exactly what I said! No, wait, it isn't. The difference with Alistair's rose is that it has a context and it's part of the story. It creates emotional attachment to that character and to your PC meaning that it will color your responses and how you handle certain situations. There's a difference between your character connecting with companions and the player connecting with an unresponsive world.

[ExistsAlready]

Bibdy wrote...

ExistsAlready wrote...

My entire experience of Oblivion is utterly marred by the dungeons. I don't find pitch black fun. Realistic, maybe but not fun.

You can't possibly know how pleased I was to walk into the Deep Trenches and not be assaulted by an endless void.

That and the Origins all blew Oblivion's opening out of the water. Dark underdungeons and rats don't compare to violent political intrige or violent wedding days. Even with Patrick Stewart.

Lol, Oblivion had one of the funniest intro's ever for me.

"Yeah, yeah, come on, let's go kill some stuf...wait. I recognise that voice. Holy ****, that's Patrick Stew-oh he's dead".

It was more "Oh God, it's Patrick Stewart! What have they got you babbling on about?!" for me. He really brought a lot of character to what was essentially a lot of hideous prophetic nonsense. Poor, poor Patrick.

[Aeto Alessos]

Oblivion without mods would be nothing and i find i still can't play it with mods cause of how unstable and unpredictable it is, i'm always afraid of CTD's or getting them every few hours. It's still a good game, Morrowind was better IMO.

[TheMadCat]

I must say after installing around 250 mods and creating a few special ones for myself, Oblivion wasn't all that far off in terms of enjoyment from DA:O.

[hexaligned]

Monica21 wrote...

DOHdragon2009 wrote...
You can find the right spot and just watch the sun come up if you like.

I'm sorry to single out this quote, but what purpose does my character have in watching the sun come up? Why would she care? This is too reminiscent of people who made up "routines" for their character, like making the PC go to sleep every night, eating three solid meals a day and having a bath in the morning. It's not driven by the game, it's driven by the player's need to have something to do.

Good RPGs are not about the player, they're about the character.

It's the differance of being able to create your own character and story, or having it created for you.  DAO is very restrictive in that sense (not that it;s alone in that)  If you like being forcefed structure, then no I wouldn't expect you to like Morrowind.

[TyroneTasty]

relhart wrote...

It's the differance of being able to create your own character and story, or having it created for you.  DAO is very restrictive in that sense (not that it;s alone in that)  If you like being forcefed structure, then no I wouldn't expect you to like Morrowind.

I don't know about that.

The difference more comes down to, do I want to be a corruptable scheming selfish bastard or not, as in Dragon Age, or as in Oblivion, do I want to go to cave A or cave B? Both very enjoyable choices.

Modifié par TyroneTasty, 28 janvier 2010 - 01:21 .

[illerianna]

Monica21 wrote...

illerianna wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

DOHdragon2009 wrote...
You can find the right spot and just watch the sun come up if you like.

I'm sorry to single out this quote, but what purpose does my character have in watching the sun come up? Why would she care? This is too reminiscent of people who made up "routines" for their character, like making the PC go to sleep every night, eating three solid meals a day and having a bath in the morning. It's not driven by the game, it's driven by the player's need to have something to do.

Good RPGs are not about the player, they're about the character.

And must everything be action-packed, "OHS NOEZ! TEH WURLD IS ENDING ASDFGHJKL;'"?

No. I guess your character is a "I must haves blud and guts AHMAHGAWD action", and that's fine, but none of mine are. Watching the sunset with a favourite companion is something meaningful to me. Much like Alistair said with his rose, "It's good to find something beautiful amidst all this darkness". It is not always "because the player needs something to do", not at all. It IS a Role-Playing Game, and in MY role, amidst all the blood and the impending doom, I'd much rather be able to sit back and connect with my character or companions. So please, don't generalize all the "fluff" as something because a player is bored.

At least for me, it's something I enjoy doing, and your post just came off as "If you don't play like I do, you're an idiot and a fail gamer".

Wow, that's exactly what I said! No, wait, it isn't. The difference with Alistair's rose is that it has a context and it's part of the story. It creates emotional attachment to that character and to your PC meaning that it will color your responses and how you handle certain situations. There's a difference between your character connecting with companions and the player connecting with an unresponsive world.

Oh, so witty we are. But, I'm going to stop before a flame war ensues.

It is not always an unresponsive world. It sometimes can be. But, it is a personal choice. Looking at an in-game sunset is like looking at a painting, and there is nothing wrong in doing so. Just because you find it boring does not mean it makes a game a universally bad RPG.

I sense that this convo is going to lead into  "My opinion is right and yours is wrong, I'm the l33t one and you're just an idiot who doesn't appreciate the hidden insight in my general psuedo-intellectualism. I happen to be an expert on this subject, and with my many convenient degrees in art and literature, it is my belief that anyone who enjoys such childish and empty features is an uneducated low-life, who does not appreciate the true value of fine art."

You may not like it. That's fine. But Oblivion is a good game in it's own right, as is DA:O. They have both strengths and weaknesses, and just because a certain game feature is not your cup of tea, does not mean you should single it out and dismiss it as stupid, along with anyone else who enjoys said feature.

Aah, video game elitism. How I <3 thee so.

[Monica21]

@illerianna



Yes, we should definitely stop. Not only because you're assuming things about me that are not true and are assuming meaning behind my words that aren't there, but we'll also just continue to disagree.