165 réponses à ce sujet

[Koor]

Abriael_CG wrote...

And since DA:O has a much better base to start from, and a much more powerful toolset, one year from now modded DA:O will obliterate modded Oblivion hands down.
Not that it doesn't on most of the squares of the checkboards already.

Hah!  I wish that were the slightest bit true..  The mod tools have been out for a while now, and still no decent content.  Only a ton of adult mods and character appearance mods.  Within a month of Oblivions release, there were countless quest mods and content mods. 

I blame it on Bioware though.  Women in Oblivion were all wearing concealing armor, or drab clothes.  In Dragon Age many of the women were scantily clad and Bioware spend so much time on their forms that the nerds became fixated and felt the need to spend all their time making nude mods.

[Asurablade]

I actually found the Dragon Age sidequests(not all of them) to be subpar compared to some of Oblivion's sidequests, not all of the quests in DA had a massively interesting plot/story i.e At the Gnawed Noble Tavern where the barkeep slips a note asking for 25 toxin extracts wasn't really compelling at all. Nor are the collection of Ninroot plants to make a night seeing potion. DA's world is quite erm 'big' such as the endless labyrinth(exaggeration) through the Deep Roads of repetition, isn't really any different from the seemingly repetitive forest landscapes. To be honest I wasn't exactly wowed by DA. It was an interesting experience of suffering the consequences of your actions, but this was also prevalent to Oblivion. You can choose to be law abiding or sinister in both games each with their own system. Thus I believe that both games can be complimented in their strengths and are much more similar in some respects than some might think. Also sunsets & sunrises purely aesthetic.

[Zevrus]

Oblivion was fun but was an Elder Scrolls game - full of characters with a weird tendency to stare in a generally inert world where your hero is the only one doing anything. I definitely see an improving trend in quality though having played all of the games in the series. The size of the world does not correlate with quality since in the first game of the series you could go to anywhere in the continent, however it was just randomly generated fluff. In the 2nd-4th games you operated in a single province but the areas evolved over the series to have a less "generic" feel, thus more detailed increasingly "smaller" worlds. I hope they still go in this direction to generate detail, depth, more memorability and also less "uncanny valley" characters.

In the end I prefer story driven games since they're feel more memorable (when they're good) despite playability limitations. This even applies to the apparently extinct(?) genre "adventure games" (The Longest Journey was such a great game). Open ended games tend to fade for me after a while. I never return to them.

[Abriael_CG]

Koor wrote...
Hah!  I wish that were the slightest bit true..  The mod tools have been out for a while now, and still no decent content.  Only a ton of adult mods and character appearance mods.

"quite a while"? It's been less than three months, and we already saw the first fully voiced add-in, which is much more than Oblivion had after 3 months. There's also some quite nice sets of armors, and a lot of ruleset mods. You might want to give a better look.
The modding tools are on a whole different level than Oblivion's, and will bring the game to heights that Oblivion will never reach. It just takes people the natural time to learn them.

Within a month of Oblivions release, there were countless quest mods and content mods. 

Not really. It took over 6 months to see anything decent. And guess what, the first Oblivion mods were to remove the clothes and reveal the nudity underneath. In fact the game was re-rated as M. Your memories seem to be a lil hazy, I'm afraid.

I blame it on Bioware though.  Women in Oblivion were all wearing concealing armor, or drab clothes.  In Dragon Age many of the women were scantily clad and Bioware spend so much time on their forms that the nerds became fixated and felt the need to spend all their time making nude mods.

Honestly hearing this from someone praising Oblivion's modding community... well... i can only laugh a lot. Oblivion's modding community is probably the most ridden ever by  nude mods, skanky clothing and sexual content of any game ever released (not that it's necessarily a bad thing, quite the contrary). Let's be real, come on.

Asurablade wrote...

I actually found the Dragon Age sidequests(not all of them) to be subpar compared to some of Oblivion's sidequests, not all of the quests in DA had a massively interesting plot/story

The difference is that basically NONE of oblivion's sidequest had an interesting story. This of course, adds to the fact that not even the main quest had a decent story.

DA's world is quite erm 'big' such as the endless labyrinth(exaggeration) through the Deep Roads of repetition, isn't really any different from the seemingly repetitive forest landscapes.

While the deep roads might not have been the best part of DA it's world in general is massively better designed and more beautiful to see than Oblivion's.

To be honest I wasn't exactly wowed by DA. It was an interesting experience of suffering the  consequences of your actions, but this was also prevalent to Oblivion.

Not really. In Oblivion the consequences of your actions were all on a personal level. You absolutely had no chance of changing the world around or really influencing it in any way. The only way was to complete the sidequest, and of course in that the game was 100% linear.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:42 .

[Gecon]

Well, the main thing I hate about Oblivion is the rule system. It could be such a nice easy going mainstream game if they just wouldnt have screwed up the rulesystem so hard on so many levels.

Yeah the quests arent too uber either, but I can live with that if I get great graphics and have a cheap fun time. Sometimes you can eat at McDonalds and enjoy it. Nobody is forcing you to buy those ugly burgers, after all.

[Gecon]

highcastle wrote...
OT: I never liked Oblivion when it came out. Like someone else mentined, Morrowind felt much stronger. While still nowhere near the depth of a BioWare game in terms of story, there were still memorable characters, a world with a real history to it, and people I grew to care about in the game itself. With Oblivion, I couldn't make that emotional connection, and for me that's the purpose of an RPG. A good story and gripping characters that leave an impact on you the way any good book or film would. DA:O did that for me. Better than I anticipated it would, even, and I've been a loyal BioWare fan since the days of Baldur's Gate.

I dont remember a single character from either Morrowind or Oblivion. Why should I, anyway ? None of them really mattered in either game.

[Tankkiller1337]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Koor wrote...
Hah!  I wish that were the slightest bit true..  The mod tools have been out for a while now, and still no decent content.  Only a ton of adult mods and character appearance mods.

"quite a while"? It's been less than three months, and we already saw the first fully voiced add-in, which is much more than Oblivion had after 3 months. There's also some quite nice sets of armors, and a lot of ruleset mods. You might want to give a better look.
The modding tools are on a whole different level than Oblivion's, and will bring the game to heights that Oblivion will never reach. It just takes people the natural time to learn them.

Within a month of Oblivions release, there were countless quest mods and content mods. 

Not really. It took over 6 months to see anything decent. And guess what, the first Oblivion mods were to remove the clothes and reveal the nudity underneath. In fact the game was re-rated as M. Your memories seem to be a lil hazy, I'm afraid.

I blame it on Bioware though.  Women in Oblivion were all wearing concealing armor, or drab clothes.  In Dragon Age many of the women were scantily clad and Bioware spend so much time on their forms that the nerds became fixated and felt the need to spend all their time making nude mods.

Honestly hearing this from someone praising Oblivion's modding community... well... i can only laugh a lot. Oblivion's modding community is probably the most ridden ever by  nude mods, skanky clothing and sexual content of any game ever released (not that it's necessarily a bad thing, quite the contrary). Let's be real, come on.

Asurablade wrote...

I actually found the Dragon Age sidequests(not all of them) to be subpar compared to some of Oblivion's sidequests, not all of the quests in DA had a massively interesting plot/story

The difference is that basically NONE of oblivion's sidequest had an interesting story. This of course, adds to the fact that not even the main quest had a decent story.

DA's world is quite erm 'big' such as the endless labyrinth(exaggeration) through the Deep Roads of repetition, isn't really any different from the seemingly repetitive forest landscapes.

While the deep roads might not have been the best part of DA it's world in general is massively better designed and more beautiful to see than Oblivion's.

To be honest I wasn't exactly wowed by DA. It was an interesting experience of suffering the  consequences of your actions, but this was also prevalent to Oblivion.

Not really. In Oblivion the consequences of your actions were all on a personal level. You absolutely had no chance of changing the world around or really influencing it in any way. The only way was to complete the sidequest, and of course in that the game was 100% linear.

Holy Crap can't you stop bashing Oblivion like a 12-year old? I know this is a Dragon Age Origins board and I thought that people here could be somehow reasonable.
But now seeing how you are handling your responses I see that this is leading to nothing. This thread was about the weaknesses and strenghts of both games. The thing you do is:

"QQ DAO is so much better than ****oblivion although I put hundreds of hours into modding a mediocre graphical improvement instead of just being able to enjoy the game".

Good, just stay out of this thread, I am sick of your trolling and bashing Oblivion.

[Alendor1989]

Oblivion is a great game, not too many get the title "game of the year" and Oblivion did. A huge world, free to do wathever you want. DAO is also a great game. I think they are both similar comparing their good and bad aspects. In Oblivion the world is much much bigger than DAO, but the story sucks. In Dragon Age you can just fight and talk, in Oblivion you can steal, murder, sneak inside houses, join any kind of guild, etc. Both are great, but dont say that Oblivion sucks just because you got recently DAO. I am sure that those who are killing Oblivion, when it was released they were the first people to say "wow, this game rocks"

[Asurablade]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Asurablade wrote...

I actually found the Dragon Age sidequests(not all of them) to be subpar compared to some of Oblivion's sidequests, not all of the quests in DA had a massively interesting plot/story

The difference is that basically NONE of oblivion's sidequest had an interesting story. This of course, adds to the fact that not even the main quest had a decent story.

DA's world is quite erm 'big' such as the endless labyrinth(exaggeration) through the Deep Roads of repetition, isn't really any different from the seemingly repetitive forest landscapes.

While the deep roads might not have been the best part of DA it's world in general is massively better designed and more beautiful to see than Oblivion's.

To be honest I wasn't exactly wowed by DA. It was an interesting experience of suffering the  consequences of your actions, but this was also prevalent to Oblivion.

Not really. In Oblivion the consequences of your actions were all on a personal level. You absolutely had no chance of changing the world around or really influencing it in any way. The only way was to complete the sidequest, and of course in that the game was 100% linear.

Well to rebut what you've just said i could point out the many sidequests of Dragon Age which lack any real story at all and that includes the incessantly measly reward of gold and experience, while in Oblivion Daedra statue quests such as the Sheogorath(might I add had the most interesting persona in the game) one included the plan to ruin a whole society of cats(or some such race) in order to recieve an interesting novelty reward which of course isn't as "lucrative" and "useful" as 2 sovereigns and 100 experience points, but nonetheless fun to do(who doesn't like raining fire dogs).

The areas of Oblivion and likewise Dragon Age are both remarkable in some respects, although not exactly awe-inspiring they both add a touch of realism as i repeat the aesthetic beauty of time affected environments, to the well rendered environments of Dragon Age.

Sidequests 100% Linear? Is that not true for Dragon Age ? "Please collect 20 toxin extracts for me ..... once collected return to the barkeep and your done." I see no other means of undertaking the quest. Similarly Oblivion also has the many linear quests and there are many, but there are also many interesting sidequests, mostly the guild quests.

Consequently, i believe both games are entitled to whatever people consider them to be, in my opinion, both great games, but i feel it is unfair to merely exaggerate and speculate on game weaknesses.

I might also add that we all know Bestheda aren't that great at storytelling thus the story may have been generic and/or weak, however the game wasn't merely played juse for the main story. As a free-roaming game upon exiting the introductory section the game specifically gives you options to roam or continue the mainquest.

Modifié par Asurablade, 28 janvier 2010 - 11:42 .

[Layn]

answering directly to the first post:



morrowind makes oblivion look average. I always like to mention how much of a disappointment oblivion was to me. Fallout 3 didn't impress me either, but then again i only played a small bit

[zaarin_2003]

Baldur's Gate 2 makes Dragon Age look average.



I don't know a single BG2 player (and I know many) who would disagree with that.



Bigger areas, more complex story, deeper characters, more tactical (and less frustrating) combat, its more adult and yet more light hearted, it has more interesting quests and subquests...



DA is a great game, yes. But only because a far better game has been forgotten by todays gamers. Try it - the graphics are not even that bad.

[Aathis]

I've had Oblivion for a few years and have never been able to get very far with it. I get bored. the world is bland. The voice acting is terrible - blowing all the voice budget on a few big names and having all the other voices done by 5 or 6 poor quality actors was a big production error IMO. The level scaling was very poorly thought out and implemented and the conversation mini-game was daft. The game has no character. Morrowind has character...and attitude. Vvardenfell is a bizarre, hostile and lethal place whereas Cyrodiil feels a like stroll through pleasant parkland; encounters are more of a nuisance than a challenge.



I am just starting the game but so far I have to say that Bioware has done a great job on DAO.

[MaxQuartiroli]

For my personal taste in RPG games, DAO is a point of no return...
From the day I begun to play DAO I learnt immediately that it was the beginning of a new era.
and also that, from that moment I would not be able to play again any game before DAO... The only thing I can do now is to wait for new games and hope they will continue on the way opened by DAO...

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 28 janvier 2010 - 02:47 .

[zaarin_2003]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

For my personal taste in RPG games, DAO is a point of no return...
From the day I begun to play DAO I learnt immediately that it was the beginning of a new era.
and also that, from that moment I would not be able to play again any game before DAO... The only thing I can do now is to wait for new games and hope they will continue on the way opened by DAO...

Ok. So, unless you particularly like the story more, what does DAO do better than the Baldur's Gate series?

[MaxQuartiroli]

zaarin_2003 wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

For my personal taste in RPG games, DAO is a point of no return...
From the day I begun to play DAO I learnt immediately that it was the beginning of a new era.
and also that, from that moment I would not be able to play again any game before DAO... The only thing I can do now is to wait for new games and hope they will continue on the way opened by DAO...

Ok. So, unless you particularly like the story more, what does DAO do better than the Baldur's Gate series?

Well I can say you that, before DAO, BG was #1 in my classification of RPG games. Now it was overtaken by DAO.. I love EVERYTHING of this game.. The whole story, the gameplay, the portrayal of the characters. Never happened in past I had a full immedesimation and emotional involvement like in this game.. This means for me this is the best game i have ever played.. This due to my tastes...that may be obiouvsly differ from tastes of others people...

Only one thing if spoilers will be confirmed I will regret from BG... The possibility to have my beloved companion near my characther in xpac...

[Monica21]

Peeker2009 wrote...
Do other people call it virtual LARPing? Could you please explain what this means?

If you try too hard to define the parameters of  "RPG" then I think you are bound to invite disagreement. Who says that to be a "real"  RPG a character's reactions must all be externalised? Or that everything my character does must have a direct bearing on the story? I  am playing a role, and the best RPGs (opinion only) allow me to flesh out my character the way I want to.

Therefore, if I see my character as having a poetic sensibility (a warrior/poet if you like), then watching a beautiful sunset, or admiring a full moon (Ah Apollo...) is enhancing my role-playing experience and not just wasting time. Just because I also like to see these things myself, doesn't mean my character has to necessarily avoid them. In other words, role-playing doesn't mean you have to leave your own personality behind. Not in my book anyway.

And that book is probably the original AD&D players handbook, a game where character development and individuality was seen as probably more important than any of the stories he was involved in. Modules came and went, whereas characters evolved over years.

It's not the first time I've heard or used the term, so no, I'm not the only one. As for what it means, if you decide that your character has poetic sensibilities but there is no ingame feedback for that, everything that's happening is in the player's mind. I prefer a game that relies on the ingame mechanics to develop the character, not the player.

Nobody said you have to lose your own personality. I find it difficult to play evil characters because I don't like doing bad thing to people. I've tried playing bad characters and given up, but at least the ingame mechanic is there.

As for "the book" you had a tabletop game and other players reacted to what you did. You didn't pretend what other players' reactions would be because they were sitting right there. That's direct feedback and the mechanic is there for it.

For what it's worth, I've had this conversation at least a hundred times. We're not going to come to an agreement. I have a preferred style of gameplay and it's not Oblivion. That said, considering the success of Oblivion and now DA, I hope we can agree that there's room in the genre for both styles of gameplay.

[Coldcall01]

Ulous wrote...

After playing DAO to death and then to death some more I decided to take a bit of a break from it, while still in the RPG mood I decided to blow the dust off my copy of oblivion c/w all the add-ons and expansions. Now this is where DAO really shines for me, because it has basically made oblivion feel average at best in my opinion, I re-played oblivion for about half an hour before I couldn't stand it anymore, everything I thought I loved about the game has now gone.

For me this makes DAO one of best, if not the best  RPG of all time, just the way it has made other RPG's that were/are great seem a lot less great.

Just my two pence.

Bethesda make a different ype of RPG to Bioware. I sort of like them both for different reasons, but the thing about Morrowind/Oblivion is that they like creating open ended worlds where you really can choose to a tiny detail how you go about the quests. This freedom also means the player sort of needs his own imagination to write the story. Bioware drive their stories harder which necessarily takes away some of the open endedness.

My dream RPG is Bioware central story (cut-scenes/relationships) and combat mechanics combined with a sidequest system built around an open Bethesda-like universe.

If they could marry those two concepts into the same game that would be wicked.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Coldcall01 wrote...

My dream RPG is Bioware central story (cut-scenes/relationships) and combat mechanics combined with a sidequest system built around an open Bethesda-like universe.

If they could marry those two concepts into the same game that would be wicked.

I believe that if they still haven't do such a game there's only one reason... You should have to pay 150$ for a game like this..

[Abriael_CG]

[quote]Asurablade wrote...
Well to rebut what you've just said i could point out the many sidequests of Dragon Age which lack any real story[/QUOTE]

It ain't much as a rebuttal. I never said that there aren't some quests in DA:O that aren't up to par with the majority story-wise. The difference is that in Oblivion ALL the sidequests are boring and dull.

[quote]at all and that includes the incessantly measly reward of gold and experience[/quote]

Who exactly judges what is the right reward for a side quest?
Is there a sidequester union somewhere? 

[QUOTE]The areas of Oblivion and likewise Dragon Age are both remarkable in some respects, although not exactly awe-inspiring they both add a touch of realism as i repeat the aesthetic beauty of time affected environments, to the well rendered environments of Dragon Age.[/QUOTE]

I find nothing remarkable in massive recycling. Realism? I wouldn't know what's realistic in basically making a statement that the Ayleid had absolutely no architectural variation, same with the ones that build the keeps and so forth, given that Bethesda was too lazy to actually add some variation in the tiles they used.

[quote]Sidequests 100% Linear? Is that not true for Dragon Age ? [/quote]

My bad, I meant the main quest.

[QUOTE]
Consequently, i believe both games are entitled to whatever people consider them to be, in my opinion, both great games, but i feel it is unfair to merely exaggerate and speculate on game weaknesses.[/QUOTE]

Good for you. I don't think people are exaggerating, and I feel that DA:O is a great game, while Oblivion is a very mediocre and overrated  game out of the box, that becomes quite good when modded.

[QUOTE]I might also add that we all know Bestheda aren't that great at storytelling thus the story may have been generic and/or weak, however the game wasn't merely played juse for the main story.
[/quote]

I'm sorry but I disagree here. Story and character depth are THE most important element in an rpg. If you fail at those, you fail at RPGs. Hence, bethesda fails at RPGs, IMHO of course.

[quote]Tankkiller1337 wrote...
Holy Crap can't you stop bashing Oblivion like a 12-year old?[/QUOTE]

Why should I? for fear of offending some oblivion fanboy that gets all bent out of shape if his game is criticized? People come here to talk about Oblivion. I happen to have an opinion on the topic, and I express it. Last time I heard, this was a discussion board. Also, I might want to point out that not having Oblivion in high regard has nothing to do with age.

[QUOTE]
I know this is a Dragon Age Origins board and I thought that people here could be somehow reasonable.
But now seeing how you are handling your responses I see that this is leading to nothing. This thread was about the weaknesses and strenghts of both games. The thing you do is: [/QUOTE]

Actually, looking at the OP, this thread is about how Oblivion sucks compared to DA:O, and I happen to agree wholeheartedly with it.

[QUOTE]"QQ DAO is so much better than ****oblivion although I put hundreds of hours into modding a mediocre
graphical improvement instead of just being able to enjoy the game".[/QUOTE]

I'm sure you will understand that the only one "QQing" here because someone criticized his beloved game is you.

[QUOTE]
Good, just stay out of this thread, I am sick of your trolling and bashing Oblivion.
[/quote]

And pray tell, who are you to decide who should participate to a thread or what ideas should be expressed in it? 
It's unfortunate that the truth behind what I say puts a flame under the toes of the bethesda fanboys. But I would like to point out is that a "troll" is someone that goes to a forum about another game in order to bash it, most of the time praising rival games. In this, I'm definitely not the troll here.

[quote]Alendor1989 wrote...
Oblivion is a great game, not too many get the title "game of the year" and Oblivion did. [/quote]

Actually there's no "supreme" entity that gives the right to create a "game of the year" edition of  a game. The software house decide that by themselves regardless of titles. Title like Gears of War 2 had a "game of the year" edition despite being lackluster and having been pretty much ignored by most "game of the year" awards out there. I would not be surprised at all if DA:O would come out with a Game of the Year edition sooner or later.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 28 janvier 2010 - 04:45 .

[RedSocialKnight]

Abriael_CG wrote...
I would not be surprised at all if DA:O would come out with a Game of the Year edition sooner or later.

...?

Since DA:O did in fact win a PC game of the year award fom IGN -- as well as from a number of smaller websites -- neither would I.

[miltos33]

The fact that four years later people still compare every new rpg to Oblivion either in a positive or in a negative manner speaks for itself. Dragon Age is a great game and everything, but I really doubt that four years from now people will be comparing the new rpgs to this game. By that time, the next Elder Scrolls game will most likely have become the new standard.



Personally, I grew tired with Oblivion a couple of years ago, and all I play these days is Dragon Age which I really love, I have also ordered Mass Effect 2 to keep me busy until the release of the Awakening, but it had to be said...since the beginning of this century, and regardless of personal preferences, Bethesda with games like Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 have become the developers to set the new standards in the rpg market.

[Bibdy]

miltos33 wrote...

The fact that four years later people still compare every new rpg to Oblivion either in a positive or in a negative manner speaks for itself. Dragon Age is a great game and everything, but I really doubt that four years from now people will be comparing the new rpgs to this game. By that time, the next Elder Scrolls game will most likely have become the new standard.

Personally, I grew tired with Oblivion a couple of years ago, and all I play these days is Dragon Age which I really love, I have also ordered Mass Effect 2 to keep me busy until the release of the Awakening, but it had to be said...since the beginning of this century, and regardless of personal preferences, Bethesda with games like Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 have become the developers to set the new standards in the rpg market.

The game has lasting longevity because of its toolset. Please don't be naieve enough to think that the stand-alone Oblivion game offered anything really substantial. It was just one big empty sandbox, probably built with the intention that the modding community would eventually fill the whole thing with interesting landmarks and such.

Give DA:O 2-3 years on the market, a bunch of modding content and you'll find the OC world map completely chock-full of areas to explore and a bunch of stand-alone campaigns that don't re-use the same game world.

DA:O is far too young to compare directly to [Oblivion+Mod content]. Its not a fair comparison in the least. Remember how awesome, yet how disappointing, Oblivion was out-of-the-box? Do try to keep that in mind.

[Abriael_CG]

miltos33 wrote...

The fact that four years later people still compare every new rpg to Oblivion either in a positive or in a negative manner speaks for itself.

Actually most people compare every new RPG not to Oblivion, but to Baldur's gate. And when oblivion came out many noticed how lackluster it was compared to Baldur's. There simply wasn't much else to play in the way of fantasy RPGs.

Dragon Age is a great game and everything, but I really doubt that four
years from now people will be comparing the new rpgs to this game. By that time, the next Elder Scrolls game will most likely have become the new standard.

I seriously doubt that. Bethesda can't really compete with Bioware, not until they finally learn some storytelling (which, giving their track record, seems to be something outlandishly outside of their potential). Oblivion had it's nice convenient window of popularity because Bioware had been pretty much absent from the fantasy RPG market for a while between Neverwinter Nights and Dragon Age. Now they're back, things are different.

Modifié par Abriael_CG, 28 janvier 2010 - 05:25 .

[Liquidcz]

miltos33 wrote...

By that time, the next Elder Scrolls game will most likely have become the new standard.

New standard, yes. I'm sure TES V will take repetitive architecture, dull characters and uninteresting stories to the next level! (okay, now I'm overreacting a bit, but still...)

Not to mention that it's likely that in 4 years there will be DA 2, which will stomp TES into the ground 

[miltos33]

I wouldn't like to get into a Bethesda vs. Bioware debate because I equally like them and I think that it is really good to have them both in the rpg market.



I would just like to say that Morrowind was released in the same year with Neverwinter Nights and Fallout 3 was released in the same year with Mass Effect PC and both games by Bethesda became extremely popular and sold more copies than their competitors, not to say that this has anything to do with the quality of the games of course.