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Real Talk about the Krogan and the Genophage


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#1
Ophir147

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It confuses me sometimes how there are people that believe that the Genophage is inherently evil, and that it was cruel and unnecessary. I blame a lot of this on the fact that the player is unable to experience horror the Krogan Rebellions themselves, and them spreading throughout the galaxy like a plague that seemed to be unstoppable.

 

I also imagine the image of so many krogan children being stillborn to be a horrible, and one that is very hard to reconcile with doing the right thing.

 

But consider Mordin for a moment. I admit I may be a little biased because Mordin is probably my favorite character in the series, and even I will admit that his heroic death in ME3 was a tearjerker. You also have to consider the fact that, without Wrex or Bakara still alive and able to lead the krogan, Mordin can actually survive, realizing in the end that without the proper voices to lead them then the krogan are beyond saving.

 

But what if someone, after the galaxy was saved and reaper threat was eliminated, assassinated Wrex to take control? Is this not the type of culture that the Krogan espouse in the first place, a sort of klingon promotion that ensures the strong are always in the lead?

 

If Wrex died on Virmire, then we have Wreav in charge of the krogan, who is an even more immediate problem. Wreav, who, after the genophage was cured and the krogans are no longer needed to fight the reapers, had explicit plans of mustering a krogan army to declare war on the citadel races? If Bakara is still alive to act as a stabilizing force, even then all we have is the assurance that if Wreav did so, there would be a massive civil war amongst the entire krogan race, possibly only postponing the inevitable if Wreav or some likeminded krogan were successful in the end. 

 

The game went through great pains to show us that Wrex is a cut above the rest when it came to the krogan. He represented what they could strive to achieve; he was a powerful battlemaster, but still has hope for the future of his species. The rest were mercenaries and brutes, and through no fault of their own. Grunt was introduced in part to give us some insight into krogan biology; harsh life on Tuchanka has made them incredibly resilient killing machines and they have an unquenchable rage that can only be held in check with a sense of clan and a steady supply of enemies to fight. They also possess an incredibly fast rate of reproduction that was necessary because, on Tuchanka, most krogan never lived to see adulthood.

 

What happens when they run out of enemies to fight? Because they will certainly never run out of krogan.

 

I really doubt I will be changing any minds, but all to often I have been called a "colossal dick" for my decision to not cure the genophage.  The idea of the genophage has had far too much time to entrench itself as a terrible idea in the eyes of the fanbase, and it has way too much real life parallels to eugenics programs weighing it down to have a sensible discussion. But people need to realize that curing the genophage is never exactly a no-brainer choice. I personally never would have cured it even without the incentives from the salarians.

 

If given a choice, the only other outcome I would see as solving more problems than it creates is weakening the Genophage to the point that the Krogan are able to survive as a species, but not removing the genophage altogether. It would be a terrible thing to lose an entire race such as the Krogan to their own stubbornness. Despite all of their flaws, they saved the galaxy from the Rachni, they have a vibrant culture, and the tend to be fun at parties.

 

Disclaimer: I don't metagame, meaning that I never make the decision of whether or not to cure the genophage infuenced by the fact that the synthesis ending would probably make them more intelligent and cure the genophage in the process, or the fact that by controlling the reapers we could probably put down any future Krogan Rebellions in like a month.

 

You may now proceed to call me a colossal dick.


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#2
Grandillusion

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I don't see not curing the genophage as a dick move. In the play thru I am doing now Wrex died in the first game and not sure if Grunt will get out of the tank. First time I played it this way. There is a reason for the genophage to start with.....



#3
Xen

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In ME3's case, they hit you with the feels stick about how horrible the genophage is while downplaying all the completely rational reasons as to why it was implemented in the first place into ignorant racism ala the Salarian Dalatrass. Given the idiot science behind krogan reproduction, (1000 children every single year from each female, who seem to make up at least half of the population) you are doing them a favour by not letting them devour their planet's resources within a couple generations and go extinct, letting them expand at a ridiculous rate and eventually come into conflict again, or forcing them to kill 99% of their children anyway.

The fact that the genophage seems to result in lots of stillbirths is unfortunate, but it is the price the krogan have to pay if they want to be members of the galactic community and won't control their reproduction through social rules of some sort. Sabotaging is completely rational given that both Wrex and Wreav talk about their expansion plans instead of how to implement large scale birth control of some sort.



#4
Jukaga

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No, OP you're right. Curing the genophage Wrex leading or not is insanity. I think you'll find more partisans here than you expected. In exhange for loyal service in the Reaper Wars I would have offered them a genophage lite that would reduce them to a fertile capacity of 1 kid every 10 years (considering their 1000 year lifespan) and also engineer them to stop laying such large clutches of eggs that are doomed to fail. It would come with the promise of Javik leading a punishment fleet if they should try to rise again as a power. As individuals krogan can be great, but as a species they are too ludicrous a threat to not take precautions.



#5
Monica21

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Liked, liked, liked, and liked.

 

I cured the genophage on my first playthrough but never will again.



#6
aoibhealfae

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Honestly, the genophage cure itself isn't an actual 'cure'. Its a layman term and Mordin/Padok merely infected the entire Krogan race with a mutagen that allow their other endocrine organs to function to the ones that the original genophage strain rendered ineffective. Essentially it created new problems to the entire Krogan race particularly their health. Krogan wouldn't be able to live longer and even more so, the genophage already strain the genetic diversity of the krogan race and even if the fertility rate went normal, there's no guarantee that individually they're all healthy... frankly it only did what the Salarian originally wanted to do as population growth control.... without actively killing millions of babies daily and exiling the entire female gender for a thousand years.



#7
Ophir147

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Well color me surprised. It was nice to get out of my system anyway, and now that I have my thoughts written down it will be easy to direct someone to this thread when they call me literally Hitler for sabotaging the cure.

 

 

Honestly, the genophage cure itself isn't an actual 'cure'. Its a layman term and Mordin/Padok merely infected the entire Krogan race with a mutagen that allow their other endocrine organs to function to the ones that the original genophage strain rendered ineffective. Essentially it created new problems to the entire Krogan race particularly their health. Krogan wouldn't be able to live longer and even more so, the genophage already strain the genetic diversity of the krogan race and even if the fertility rate went normal, there's no guarantee that individually they're all healthy... frankly it only did what the Salarian originally wanted to do as population growth control.... without actively killing millions of babies daily and exiling the entire female gender for a thousand years.

 

This is interesting. Do you have a source on this? If this is true then why was the Dalatrass so afraid of releasing the cure if it krogan expansion afterward were not a problem? 



#8
aoibhealfae

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Well, my understanding was all based on what Mordin and Padok said about the original genophage, Eve's "immunity" and the cure. And my common sense as a biomed grad.

 

The original genophage itself does not reduce fertility among Krogan adults. It merely reduce the probability of a viable pregnancy by interfering with the hormonal activity during pregnancy. Which mean all Krogan can still have babies.. except these babies have a higher probability of dying in early fetal developmental stage.

 

What Maelon did was changing the function of other endocrine organs to produce regular pregnancy hormones. But the procedure is imperfect as it results in Eve and other test subjects showing signs of severe immune disorders. This is why having Maelon's data is crucial so Mordin/Padok could identify the source of her illness and correct it. 

 

What Mordin/Padok did in ME3 was creating a type of mutagen from Eve's cells and use the same genophage vector to reinfect the entire Krogan population on Tuchanka. And remember Mordin's last words about the cure having a permanent side effect on Krogan's health. Krogan have amazing biology, multiple organs and redundant nervous system which allow them to survive for centuries. If Eve could get sick, it means that the cure's effect is potent enough that it strain the Krogan's ability to self-regenerate and the body unhealthy. 

And immune disorders can mean a lot of things. Predisposition toward diseases, risks of cancer formation, gene defects, disorders in bodily function. Technically, its kinda like giving the Krogan the choice of extinction or AIDS. Basically, they were trading their lifespan away for the cure. Either way, birth rate and mortality rate should even out. 

 

Dalatrass didn't know this at all because she's a politician and not a scientist and I don't think Mordin or Padok had the time to present their findings and inferences to the Salarian Union right before they touch down on Tuchanka.



#9
Batarian Master Race

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I cure the Genophage every playthrough because (and perhaps this is a flawed assumption) I expect Wrex to be sensible.

 

If left unchecked, the Krogan will rampage over the galaxy, devouring resources and stealing our women and all that. Which is why I'd expect Wrex to implement a policy of population control like the Flotilla.

 

Of course, the Krogan would have to be watched by the rest of the galaxy to make sure they abide by these policies.

 

Curing the Genophage isn't a perfect solution by any means, but the Krogan don't deserve to be forcibly sterilized just because of what might happen.

 

In fact, acting upon what might happen is part of my major beef with the endings.


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#10
Monica21

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I cure the Genophage every playthrough because (and perhaps this is a flawed assumption) I expect Wrex to be sensible.

 

The only problem I have with this is that it all depends on Wrex. Wrex could be dethroned or banished or killed. And he also won't live forever, and the effects of curing the genophage will last far beyond his lifespan.



#11
Batarian Master Race

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The only problem I have with this is that it all depends on Wrex. Wrex could be dethroned or banished or killed. And he also won't live forever, and the effects of curing the genophage will last far beyond his lifespan.

 

Of course, the Krogan would have to be watched by the rest of the galaxy to make sure they abide by these policies.

 

If Wreav is in charge, then I'd fake the cure, of course. But Wrex's leadership, plus the alliance of the female clans (which tend to be sensible as well), should set a custom among the Krogan.

 

And if push comes to shove, the galaxy could always hold another Genophage over the Krogan's heads.


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#12
Ophir147

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What Maelon did was changing the function of other endocrine organs to produce regular pregnancy hormones. But the procedure is imperfect as it results in Eve and other test subjects showing signs of severe immune disorders. This is why having Maelon's data is crucial so Mordin/Padok could identify the source of her illness and correct it. 

 

Doesn't this mean that if Maelon's data is saved then all the negative effects of the genophage cure can be cured anyway? If they could help Eve survive then wouldn't that be the case with all krogan who are negatively affected by the cure?



#13
teh DRUMPf!!

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 The Krogan are stupid savages.

 

 

It boggles my mind that anyone can decry the morality of the genophage and not have any problem with the Space Somalians.



#14
aoibhealfae

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Doesn't this mean that if Maelon's data is saved then all the negative effects of the genophage cure can be cured anyway? If they could help Eve survive then wouldn't that be the case with all krogan who are negatively affected by the cure?

Eve's dependence the Maelon's data didn't mean that she is 'cured'. It merely mean he manage to treat her body that she is stronger to survive the invasive procedure that would normally kill her. 

 

In medicine, there's no such term as a 'cure'. You can't cure cancer, you can't cure aging process, you can't cure genetic diseases, you can't cure AIDS, you can't completely cure organ failure. There's always side effects and in most cases with immune disorders, you get increased rate of opportunity diseases because the body won't function right. You can only treat and manage the condition before it get worst but it was still inevitable. This is what Mordin mean by "Long term health problems were all Krogan's".