64 réponses à ce sujet

[Hrulj]

What do you think are the decisions that made it impossible to continue Mass Effect franchise in the same/similar storyline with the same cast/protagonist?

[Chealec]

Oh I dunno... the whole of Mass Effect 3 perhaps?

[KaiserShep]

Well, ME3 was basically a big wrap-up for everything. The genophage, the geth war, and then having multiple ways to resolve the reaper war itself, with most or sometimes all options leading to Shepard's death makes it pretty difficult to carry on from there. Heck the Warden couldn't carry on and the darkspawn war ends largely the same way no matter what. 

[Amplitudelol]

What do you think are the decisions that made it impossible to continue Mass Effect franchise in the same/similar storyline with the same cast/protagonist?

 

[rashie]

Synthesis, largely.

 

Both control and destruction can be written away as the same ending without much fuss if far enough into the future, but the one turning every living organic into cyborgs would largely be the problem.

 

Aside from that, I guess how the Krogans, the Geth and the Quarians don't have a set ending.

[MercilessToaster]

Setting aside the less-than-graceful exit of the original trilogy (which I consider to be the tip of the iceberg), Shepard and his fanclub have served their purpose.

Their adversaries have been defeated, their personal issues have been resolved along with all the other significant subplots that were introduced throughout the trilogy like the genophage and the Quarian-Geth conflict.

Time to move on to greener pastures.

[FKA_Servo]

Seriously, it started in the first ten minutes of Mass Effect 2.

 

Even if ME2 and ME3 were great, would everyone really want to play as Shepard and co forever? I wouldn't.

 

Are we sure that this overwhelming desire to stay with them isn't solely due to two thirds of the trilogy being ridiculous?

[CHRrOME]

Maybe because they said ME will be a trilogy and ME3 was the end of the trilogy? A new game would be released eventually as part of the ME franchise, but the trilogy was over. 

 

Sarcasm aside, ME3 was kinda rushed trying to fix everything, the geth-quarian quarrel, the genophage-krogan issue, and of course put an end to the Reapers. So at this stage you can already tell that ME3 was supposed to bring closure. The problem with the endings is not how silly they were but how difficult it would be to make a new game based on those endings.

Solution? do a sort-of-reboot and place your new game in an entire different galaxy until they somehow manage to "fix" the Milky Way or think something really cool to make ME3 endings work for a future game.

[Han Shot First]

I think it was only one decision that prevented ME4, and that was the decision to have the results of the three ending choices diverge so greatly. The Synthesis choice is primarily to blame to this, in that it alters the nature of life for all time and turns everyone into a cyborg. There is no way to import that ending along with two endings where that doesn't happen, into a single sequel. Synthesis diverges too much from the other two choices.

 

That isn't to say that a direct sequel is impossible, just that a sequel can't be crafted from ME3 without provoking some controversy. It would require Bioware to select one ending for the sole basis of the sequel.

 

The diverging endings are most likely why the next game is set in Andromeda. The devs opted to shift the setting rather than deal with ME3's endings. 

[jstme]

I think it was only one decision that prevented ME4, and that was the decision to have the results of the three ending choices diverge so greatly. The Synthesis choice is primarily to blame to this, in that it alters the nature of life for all time and turns everyone into a cyborg. There is no way to import that ending along with two endings where that doesn't happen, into a single sequel. Synthesis diverges too much from the other two choices.

 

That isn't to say that a direct sequel is impossible, just that a sequel can't be crafted from ME3 without provoking some controversy. It would require Bioware to select one ending for the sole basis of the sequel.

 

The diverging endings are most likely why the next game is set in Andromeda. The devs opted to shift the setting rather than deal with ME3's endings. 

 

 Actually choosing canon is not a must. The RGB choices and their results could have simply been marginalized and state of the universe brought t o same common denominator. Not saying that this will not be controversial or not bring tons of criticism, but neither would be canon choice or (sigh) another galaxy.

  So the only decision that prevented next mass effect game in its home is the decision made by Bioware guys due to their own reasons and/or preferences.  

[Han Shot First]

 Actually choosing canon is not a must. The RGB choices and their results could have simply been marginalized and state of the universe brought t o same common denominator. Not saying that this will not be controversial or not bring tons of criticism, but neither would be canon choice or (sigh) another galaxy.

  So the only decision that prevented next mass effect game in its home is the decision made by Bioware guys due to their own reasons and/or preferences.  

 

In order to have all endings carry over you'd need to set it in a galaxy where everyone is a cyborg, whether through Synthesis or some other event that occurred between the start of the sequel and the Destroy and Control choices. That would be virtually indistinguishable from a sole Synthesis import, with the exception of Destroyers getting dialogue or codex entries saying the Reapers were blown to smithereens, while the Synthesis and Control imports would probably just have them leave the galaxy.

[Lady Artifice]

Apart from all the obvious problems of reconciling the setting with the all of the possible endings of ME3, including one in which the reapers might just wipe everyone out, there's also the fact that Shepard's story was inextricably woven into that war. As ME3 progressed, they became more and more exhausted and spent. Shepard's story was meant to be concluded at the end. If they were to instead decide to carry it over past that point, it would be pretty shoehorned. 

[Gwydden]

 Actually choosing canon is not a must. The RGB choices and their results could have simply been marginalized and state of the universe brought t o same common denominator. Not saying that this will not be controversial or not bring tons of criticism, but neither would be canon choice or (sigh) another galaxy.

  So the only decision that prevented next mass effect game in its home is the decision made by Bioware guys due to their own reasons and/or preferences.  

OR they could have retconned the endings.

 

OR they could have made a prequel or inquel.

 

OR they could have rebooted the trilogy.

 

No matter what they did a whole lot of people would be angry. The problem with your idea is that it would take a ridiculous amount of time for the endings to arrive to the same conclusion in a believable way, and by then the setting would be so unrecognizable that we might as well pack our things and move to another galaxy. And people would still perceive that as the ending choice being irrelevant, since everything ends up the same anyway.

 

Frankly I think Andromeda was the best option they had.

[MrFob]

Well, ME3 was basically a big wrap-up for everything. The genophage, the geth war, and then having multiple ways to resolve the reaper war itself, with most or sometimes all options leading to Shepard's death makes it pretty difficult to carry on from there. Heck the Warden couldn't carry on and the darkspawn war ends largely the same way no matter what. 

 

Maybe a tad off topic but I have to ask: Before ME3, did you guys expect that? Because I did not expect at all that I'd be the one to resolve age old conflicts like the genophage issue or the geth/quarian war. I was really surprised when I did. I mean, granted, there are some hints in ME2 but still, these conflicts were hundreds or even thousands of years old. I am still not certain if I like ME3 for giving me the opportunity to have the decisive vote in them or if I dislike it for that.

On the one hand, it was nice to have this kind of wide spread consequences. on the other hand, I thought it "cheapened" the lore a little because it started to feel like the entire galaxy was just spinning around Shepard. Ultimately, neither the genophage nor the geth issue was a concern of Shepards (or the humans for that matter). It only became relevant when the writers decided to entangle these issues with the reaper threat. This wasn't necessary and sometimes I do wonder if wouldn't have been better to concentrate on that one problem at hand and leave these other conflicts as part of the backdrop. After all, these were kind of the Rosetta Stones to define these races.

But then, the reaper war is such a major event that maybe it deservs tangents of this magnitude. I am strangely undecided on the matter.

 

In any case, back on topic, I am fairly certain that it is the endings and the extreme divergence that they cause in the fate of the Milky Way that prompted the escape to Andromeda. I think it would have been possible to homogenize pretty much all of the other decisions into a relatively similar world-state, where just details would have changed in the plot of the next game. It's only during the endings that the galaxy goes off into three truly different directions and it would be sort of disrespectful to those who put a lot of thought into this decision to effectively negate it right away. Maybe in a future ME story, we'll see that but I think it was probably a wise decision to leave it all be for a time.

[Killroy]

Actually choosing canon is not a must. The RGB choices and their results could have simply been marginalized and state of the universe brought t o same common denominator. Not saying that this will not be controversial or not bring tons of criticism, but neither would be canon choice or (sigh) another galaxy.
  So the only decision that prevented next mass effect game in its home is the decision made by Bioware guys due to their own reasons and/or preferences.

So explain to me how all 4 endings could have just been homogenized into one. I've seen a lot of people say it's possible and preferable to changing the setting, but no one's ever said how it would be possible without being completely stupid.

[Gwydden]

So explain to me how all 4 endings could have just been homogenized into one. I've seen a lot of people say it's possible and preferable to changing the setting, but no one's ever said how it would be possible without being completely stupid.

Well, Refuse has to go, or most of the species from the trilogy are extinct. Then you could argue that after a very long time, Control and Destroy endings achieved Synthesis on their own. With identical effects to the Crucible's Synthesis. Also affecting every living being in the galaxy, for some reason. And then you have to find a way to get rid of the Reapers and the geth in Control and Synthesis, since they are extinct in Destroy.

 

It wouldn't look pretty, but if one's intent on creating a Frankenstein monster who are we to stop them? 

[FKA_Servo]

So explain to me how all 4 endings could have just been homogenized into one. I've seen a lot of people say it's possible and preferable to changing the setting, but no one's ever said how it would be possible without being completely stupid.

 

Well, like it or not, "completely stupid" sort of goes hand in glove with the Mass Effect setting we've come to know and love. So whatever they'd come up with to remedy it might be an entirely natural (still stupid) progression.

[Gwydden]

Well, like it or not, "completely stupid" sort of goes hand in glove with the Mass Effect setting we've come to know and love. So whatever they'd come up with to remedy it might be an entirely natural (still stupid) progression.

Plus... this. The writers have never been reticent to use questionable writing techniques to force an outcome they want. Who cares if you have to resort to silly pseudoscience and Deus Ex Machina to make it work? THE PLOT DEMANDS IT!!!

 

They are bound to do the same with Andromeda, although hopefully they'll try to keep it reasonable and within established lore.

[SolNebula]

It all went down the drain when they made the Reapers so powerful that you couldn't defeat them conventionally even with the whole galaxy united. ME3 poor endings and Starbrat are the result of this simple statement.

[Killroy]

Well, Refuse has to go, or most of the species from the trilogy are extinct. Then you could argue that after a very long time, Control and Destroy endings achieved Synthesis on their own. With identical effects to the Crucible's Synthesis. Also affecting every living being in the galaxy, for some reason. And then you have to find a way to get rid of the Reapers and the geth in Control and Synthesis, since they are extinct in Destroy.
 
It wouldn't look pretty, but if one's intent on creating a Frankenstein monster who are we to stop them? 

I said without being completely stupid.

[Jaquio]

What's baffling to me is that people can be happy to call Mac a doofus, when Mass Effect 2 was where the trilogy's serious problems emerged. 

 

You realize that the one of the two principal writers - L'Etoile - actually left in the middle of production of ME2, not the end.

 

And Karpyshyn left because he was marginalized and overrun by Casey who seized more and more control over the project.

 

Mac was put in place because he would follow Casey's lead. 

[SolNebula]

I think it was more of Casey fault than Mac if only because he was his superior. I'm getting the feeling that poor Mac was more following Casey lead. Anyways I cannot get angry with Mac for the sole reason he wrote Garrus (plus he is a great characters writer). I'm willing to forgive provided they learned from their mistakes and plan the story ahead this time around.

 

EDIT: regardless is pointless to play the blame-game let's focus on the future. A sequel set in Andromeda is not half as bad than say a prequel/midquel or a direct sequel with a canonized ending we didn't choose. People voiced their opinion about making their choice and canon matter. BW did that...they only way that was reasonably possible.

[KatDancer]

All I know is I never finished Mass Effect 3, and I am not buying Andromeda.  Third game was bad and the endings worse.

[KaiserShep]

Maybe a tad off topic but I have to ask: Before ME3, did you guys expect that? Because I did not expect at all that I'd be the one to resolve age old conflicts like the genophage issue or the geth/quarian war. I was really surprised when I did. I mean, granted, there are some hints in ME2 but still, these conflicts were hundreds or even thousands of years old. I am still not certain if I like ME3 for giving me the opportunity to have the decisive vote in them or if I dislike it for that.
On the one hand, it was nice to have this kind of wide spread consequences. on the other hand, I thought it "cheapened" the lore a little because it started to feel like the entire galaxy was just spinning around Shepard. Ultimately, neither the genophage nor the geth issue was a concern of Shepards (or the humans for that matter). It only became relevant when the writers decided to entangle these issues with the reaper threat. This wasn't necessary and sometimes I do wonder if wouldn't have been better to concentrate on that one problem at hand and leave these other conflicts as part of the backdrop. After all, these were kind of the Rosetta Stones to define these races.
But then, the reaper war is such a major event that maybe it deservs tangents of this magnitude. I am strangely undecided on the matter.
 
In any case, back on topic, I am fairly certain that it is the endings and the extreme divergence that they cause in the fate of the Milky Way that prompted the escape to Andromeda. I think it would have been possible to homogenize pretty much all of the other decisions into a relatively similar world-state, where just details would have changed in the plot of the next game. It's only during the endings that the galaxy goes off into three truly different directions and it would be sort of disrespectful to those who put a lot of thought into this decision to effectively negate it right away. Maybe in a future ME story, we'll see that but I think it was probably a wise decision to leave it all be for a time.

I honestly wasn't entirely certain what to expect, but I did expect Shepard to play a role somehow in the genophage issue and the geth war, because ME2 pretty much puts Shepard in the thick of both, and has a key decision to make in both Mordin and Legion's loyalty missions. Those threads just had to lead somewhere. While the dark energy thing is an example of such threads mysteriously disappearing, those two things were some of the biggest components of the MEU backdrop.

Personally, I would have been disappointed if Shepard didn't get to play a role in the outcomes of either. While that does make going forward tricky, I wasn't really concerned about more ME games at the time anyway.

[FKA_Servo]

I think it was more of Casey fault than Mac if only because he was his superior. I'm getting the feeling that poor Mac was more following Casey lead. Anyways I cannot get angry with Mac for the sole reason he wrote Garrus (plus he is a great characters writer). I'm willing to forgive provided they learned from their mistakes and plan the story ahead this time around.

 

Cerberus.

 

It takes a lot to forgive Cerberus.