41 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

On this playthrough, I was a paragon (friendly personality) female mage that rival-manced Merrill. She is the perfect, amazing, pure mage Merrill looks up to, the mage she wished she was. After Pride's End, when she caused the death of her Keeper and decided she was changing her ways, after she broke the mirror... She gave up blood magic. She drank a Maker's Sigh, and never touched blood magic again. She was no longer just going to wish she was like Hawke, she was going to aspire to be like her as a goal to reach towards. She would be powerful without blood magic, just like Hawke.

 

Anyone else ever do this before, making a rival Merrill give up blood magic?

[Qun00]

Everyone should.

Friend path Merril is a stubborn and, well... proud fool.

[SgtSteel91]

I don't like the rivalry path. I think Merrill does just fine on the friendmance path, she comes to the conclusion she shouldn't live for the Dalish and she wasted her time trying to please them. In Inquisition helps Elves caught in the crossfire of the Mage-Templar War and I'm happy for her.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Two out of three times, yes.

[AutumnWitch]

As much a Solas's opinion of the Dalish is most of DAI angered me, Merrill's relationship with them sort of showed that they were not the people they once were. Scared, bitter, stubborn and unwilling to grow they are a shadow of the Elves of old. Merrill demonstrated IMO how Solas was right about them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I adore the Dalish and almost always play as one in DAO and DAI. But perhaps its time they laid down their resentment and moved forward. There's no going back and even if they could they have long forgotten what "back" is as Merrill helped point out.

[Aren]

Merrill is a wise and intelligent mage,expert on elven lore and perfectly capable to handle blood magic.

She took every precautions to restore the Eluvian,she only needed Hawke moral support and DAI proves her right and that foolish of a keeper and her clan wrong.

No doubts that the Varterral was pissed with them.

[AutumnWitch]

 

Merrill is a wise and intelligent mage,expert on elven lore and perfectly capable to handle blood magic.

She took every precautions to restore the Eluvian,she only needed Hawke moral support and DAI proves her right and that foolish of a keeper and her clan wrong.

No doubts that the Varterral was pissed with them.

 

 

And if the Eluvian had been not tainted it would have been one of the biggest magical and historical developments in Thedas for centuries. Despite the risk Merrill was 100% right to pursue the Eluvian. Imagine what might have been if she had found the path to the Cross Roads or the Temple of Mythal. No the potential IMO far outweighed any risk. Merrill was right and does not get the credit she deserves.

[Aren]

And if the Eluvian had been not tainted it would have been one of the biggest magical and historical developments in Thedas for centuries. Despite the risk Merrill was 100% right to pursue the Eluvian. Imagine what might have been if she had found the path to the Cross Roads or the Temple of Mythal. No the potential IMO far outweighed any risk. Merrill was right and does not get the credit she deserves.

Since DAII was released i was convinced that the pride demon audacity was there for Marethari the pride keeper not for Merrill,and i found to be very fascinating from the developers parts

(i do not even know if it was intended) to fools the players in believing that Marethari sacrificed her life for Merrill,that's completely untrue Marethari simply get possessed because she was the target of that demon since the very beginning.

[Qun00]

Merrill is a wise and intelligent mage,expert on elven lore and perfectly capable to handle blood magic.
She took every precautions to restore the Eluvian,she only needed Hawke moral support and DAI proves her right and that foolish of a keeper and her clan wrong.
No doubts that the Varterral was pissed with them.

Pshh... she barely acknowledges the risks.

"The demon was polite", she says.

On a side note, there is no such thing as harmless blood magic. You will make a bargain with a demon and someone will end up getting hurt. You will want to perform greater spells and that will require human sacrifices.

[dragonflight288]

Pshh... she barely acknowledges the risks.

"The demon was polite", she says.

On a side note, there is no such thing as harmless blood magic. You will make a bargain with a demon and someone will end up getting hurt. You will want to perform greater spells and that will require human sacrifices.

 

Templars phylacteries is a form of blood magic.

 

The Grey Warden joining is blood magic. 

 

Without blood magic, there are no Grey Wardens, without Grey Wardens, the world is doomed. 

 

Blood magic is simply using blood as a power source, or even a component of a spell. 

[Vlada47]

Despite her best intentions, things seems to kinda blow in her face. I think her efforts to gain whatever knowledge her people might have in the past is commendable and I don't even mind use of blood magic... it just requires being more careful and to have stronger will. Problem with Merril is, she gets played by the demons, so her efforts can very easily end up badly. She also seems to get overly emotional over those things, which is a trait also easily exploitable by demons. But she seems to be learning her lessons (partly because Hawke is around sending any immediate threat to hell)... I have definitely more worries about Anders, his mind is just a big mess (perhaps with some good ideas in the beginning, but he takes it to such extreme, he makes his initial ideas no longer matter).

[andy6915]

Guess I might as well post my own opinions. I trust Merrill, personally. She made her own eluvian from a single shard and I fully support her trying to build one, has absolute moral and ethical fiber that I know means that she would never use anyone else's blood or sacrifice anyone (for seven years the only blood she ever even considered using was her own), the eluvian she built was no danger and I fail to see how it could have possibly led to the demon's prison and in fact I'm quite sure the thing was after the Keeper (and it might have been a harmless wisdom spirit before the Keeper corrupted it by letting it possess her), she is actually pretty smart about demons and spirits and their danger (Merrill to Anders: "There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I'm sorry that you didn't"), and I don't think blood magic is bad if you're responsible about it (no non-consensual blood sacrificing and no mind control and not used as a crutch... Merrill had trouble with the last part).

 

 

You will want to perform greater spells and that will require human sacrifices.

 

That is no where close to inevitable. Morrigan also knows and uses blood magic at times, yet she's never made a blood sacrifice of anyone. Most mages are too weak for it, but some like Merrill and Morrigan absolutely can be users of blood magic without jumping off the slippery slope.

[Vlada47]

That's pretty much my take on blood magic and other "forbidden arts" - if you can keep it under control and don't abuse it in a way, where others will suffer because of you, you can use it as a viable option. In a situation of being a mage out of mana, without lyrium potions and seeing some nasty monsters/people about to viciously murder someone I try to protect, I will totally use blood magic to prevent that.

[dragonflight288]

Guess I might as well post my own opinions. I trust Merrill, personally. She made her own eluvian from a single shard and I fully support her trying to build one, has absolute moral and ethical fiber that I know means that she would never use anyone else's blood or sacrifice anyone (for seven years the only blood she ever even considered using was her own), the eluvian she built was no danger and I fail to see how it could have possibly led to the demon's prison and in fact I'm quite sure the thing was after the Keeper (and it might have been a harmless wisdom spirit before the Keeper corrupted it by letting it possess her), she is actually pretty smart about demons and spirits and their danger (Merrill to Anders: "There's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I'm sorry that you didn't"), and I don't think blood magic is bad if you're responsible about it (no non-consensual blood sacrificing and no mind control and not used as a crutch... Merrill had trouble with the last part).

 

 

 

That is no where close to inevitable. Morrigan also knows and uses blood magic at times, yet she's never made a blood sacrifice of anyone. Most mages are too weak for it, but some like Merrill and Morrigan absolutely can be users of blood magic without jumping off the slippery slope.

 

I don't think Merrill used it as a crutch. She learned blood magic as a last resort. 

 

She talks about how she brought an eluvian shard from Ferelden and the Brecilian forest and asked Merethari to help her cleanse it, and Merethari refused. Merill will tell Hawke she could have done the same thing if she had plenty of lyrium on hand to amplify her magic but she didn't, as the Chantry controls the lyrium trade (she doesn't actually talk about the Chantry, but I infer that is the reasons she doesn't have it,) and she went to Audacity to learn blood magic as the work-around. 

 

David Gaider said a few years back that Merrill extrapolated knowledge from the shard and what she could gather on elven lore to build a new eluvian, so she wasn't communing with the demon for information. She went to him a total of three times. The first time was in the short story written by Jennifer Hepler that takes place before the game where Merethari and Merrill investigate the presence that is affecting them in their dreams (and Merethari was waking up in tears and was far more affected than Merrill,) and Merethari declares the demon harmless. The second time was when Merrill went and learned blood magic, and the final time was when Merrill and Hawke went up to find out what is needed to activate the eluvian only to find aboination-Merethari. 

 

I don't blame her for what happens to her clan and Merethari, because doing so takes away the fact that the other members of the clan are thinking adults who are responsible for their own actions, and Merethari is the one who acted rashly and did more to put her clan in danger than Merrill ever did. 

 

And I think that Inquisition and the Masked Empire together prove that Merrill was 100% right about the eluvians.

[dragonflight288]

That's pretty much my take on blood magic and other "forbidden arts" - if you can keep it under control and don't abuse it in a way, where others will suffer because of you, you can use it as a viable option. In a situation of being a mage out of mana, without lyrium potions and seeing some nasty monsters/people about to viciously murder someone I try to protect, I will totally use blood magic to prevent that.

 

But that begs the question on who decides what is and what is not forbidden. 

 

The item description "Tome of the Mortal Vessel" in dragon age origins outright says that anatomy studies are forbidden because many see it as blood magic. 

 

A con-artist was trying to pass as a healer to a bunch of refugees and was killed out of hand for being an apostate by the templars, despite the fact he wasn't even a mage, just pretending to be one to fool the masses. 

 

Finn in Witch-Hunt needed Arianna's blood to locate the Lights of Arlathan, but asks the Warden to keep it quiet because it may be considered blood magic even though the blood is not powering the spell, is merely a component of it to locate something that can only be found by the Dalish due to the magic used. And since the blood was a grey area, it could be considered blood magic by the templars and chantry. 

 

From what I can gather, the Chantry and templars declare blood magic illegal but use it themselves because that's exactly what a phylactery is. And without blood magic, there would be no Grey Wardens to battle the blight, because the Joining is blood magic as well. They say blood magic is forbidden, but they have such a broad stroke on what constitutes blood magic and forbidden arts that even things that are not risky at all are banned. 

[andy6915]

I don't think Merrill used it as a crutch. She learned blood magic as a last resort. 

 

She talks about how she brought an eluvian shard from Ferelden and the Brecilian forest and asked Merethari to help her cleanse it, and Merethari refused. Merill will tell Hawke she could have done the same thing if she had plenty of lyrium on hand to amplify her magic but she didn't, as the Chantry controls the lyrium trade (she doesn't actually talk about the Chantry, but I infer that is the reasons she doesn't have it,) and she went to Audacity to learn blood magic as the work-around. 

 

David Gaider said a few years back that Merrill extrapolated knowledge from the shard and what she could gather on elven lore to build a new eluvian, so she wasn't communing with the demon for information. She went to him a total of three times. The first time was in the short story written by Jennifer Hepler that takes place before the game where Merethari and Merrill investigate the presence that is affecting them in their dreams (and Merethari was waking up in tears and was far more affected than Merrill,) and Merethari declares the demon harmless. The second time was when Merrill went and learned blood magic, and the final time was when Merrill and Hawke went up to find out what is needed to activate the eluvian only to find aboination-Merethari. 

 

I don't blame her for what happens to her clan and Merethari, because doing so takes away the fact that the other members of the clan are thinking adults who are responsible for their own actions, and Merethari is the one who acted rashly and did more to put her clan in danger than Merrill ever did. 

 

And I think that Inquisition and the Masked Empire together prove that Merrill was 100% right about the eluvians.

 

I mean in combat. Only weaklings use blood magic as their main magic style, a skilled mage doesn't need blood magic to kick ass. And Merrill would do entire battles with blood magic turned on, start to finish. Her main attack was wounds of the past (aka that weird swirling blood attack that enemy blood mages love to spam). Now that she's respecc'd, she is still kicking ass even without blood magic; she is no longer using it as a crutch in battle, she has gone back to standard magic and is doing fine that way.

 

Using blood magic for mundane means is different, as is simply popping blood magic on once in a while for a quick boost instead of using it as your main form of fighting. Using blood magic for mundane things as a tool, or as an emergency option in combat, are fine.

[dragonflight288]

I mean in combat. Only weaklings use blood magic as their main magic style, a skilled mage doesn't need blood magic to kick ass. And Merrill would do entire battles with blood magic turned on, start to finish. Her main attack was wounds of the past (aka that weird swirling blood attack that enemy blood mages love to spam). Now that she's respecc'd, she is still kicking ass even without blood magic; she is no longer using it as a crutch in battle, she has gone back to standard magic and is doing fine that way.

 

Using blood magic for mundane means is different, as is simply popping blood magic on once in a while for a quick boost instead of using it as your main form of fighting. Using blood magic for mundane things as a tool, or as an emergency option in combat, are fine.

 

Does that mean my Warden who was a blood mage was a weakling?

 

Blood magic enhanced the damage output of all my spells. A frost spell did 30-35 damage in Lothering without it and 45-50 with it. 

 

It enhances already existing spells. 

 

So, some may see it as cheating or cowardly to use it in battle the way my Warden or Merrill had, but I don't. I for one am more than willing to use something that increases the odds for victory. 

 

Blood magic is something that shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, but neither is it something that can be accepted without question because of the potential danger a mage is with it, like nudging people to do things they normally wouldn't do or removing someone's free will entirely. And I'm not even going to get into the blood sacrifices because that is just repugnant. 

 

But I'm not going to nitpick between boiling someone's blood in their veins or throwing a fireball in their face as which is morally better. 

[Vlada47]

But that begs the question on who decides what is and what is not forbidden. 

 

And that is exactly, why I put it in quotes... 

 

andy6951 - it gives better casting cost ratio than using mana, if I remember correctly. Hence I was using on Merrill in combat regulary, same deal with Morrigan - Blood Wound is such an OP spell (AOE, no friendly damage, paralyzes enemies...), I want it to have available.  I really don't consider the fact, what talents and how I use them in combat to translate somewhat in story or character's personality. Only thing I count is the specialization itself - she knows blood magic and can practically use it.

[andy6915]

Does that mean my Warden who was a blood mage was a weakling?

 

Blood magic enhanced the damage output of all my spells. A frost spell did 30-35 damage in Lothering without it and 45-50 with it. 

 

It enhances already existing spells. 

 

So, some may see it as cheating or cowardly to use it in battle the way my Warden or Merrill had, but I don't. I for one am more than willing to use something that increases the odds for victory. 

 

Blood magic is something that shouldn't be dismissed out of hand, but neither is it something that can be accepted without question because of the potential danger a mage is with it, like nudging people to do things they normally wouldn't do or removing someone's free will entirely. And I'm not even going to get into the blood sacrifices because that is just repugnant. 

 

But I'm not going to nitpick between boiling someone's blood in their veins or throwing a fireball in their face as which is morally better. 

 

Uhhhhhhhhhhh... No. Blood magic doesn't enhance damage. At all. Look into the gameplay mechanics faq if you don't believe me. All it does it let you use health as mana and do special spells like blood wound and blood control. Fireballs will do no more damage with blood magic on than blood magic off, and I have no idea how you ever got that idea.

 

And you just admitted that your warden used it as a crutch. Using it as just another spell, pop it on to squeeze another spell out that you don't have the mana for or to control the elite in the group that you're going to kill anyway? Sure, fine. Using it as your MAIN COMBAT STYLE, to the point where it's eclipsed the usage of all your other magic? Pathetic. Also, using blood magic like that makes victory harder. You're just making things worse. You can't be healed at all, your health is draining with every attack, you need to turn it the hell off sometimes. Trust me, Morrigan uses blood magic quite a lot on my DAO playthroughs... And even I know that having her use it the entire time is a bad idea.

[andy6915]

And that is exactly, why I put it in quotes... 

 

andy6951 - it gives better casting cost ratio than using mana, if I remember correctly. Hence I was using on Merrill in combat regulary, same deal with Morrigan - Blood Wound is such an OP spell (AOE, no friendly damage, paralyzes enemies...), I want it to have available.  I really don't consider the fact, what talents and how I use them in combat to translate somewhat in story or character's personality. Only thing I count is the specialization itself - she knows blood magic and can practically use it.

 

Blood wound is a lot better in DAO than it is in DA2, so Merrill lacking it doesn't seem to be making that much of a tactical difference compared to before her respec. Now Morrigan not having blood wound, that IS NOT OKAY!

[Vlada47]

Yeah I thought Blood Wound in DAO... I used Blood of the First (or how is the ability called) on Merrill, because she's been using load of sustainables (Rock Armor, weapon enchants...)... doubled casting pool is also nice.

 

Seriously you would consider my fighting style in DAO completely revolting... Warden's health = Morrigan's casting pool...    Hmm... you could consider it being some part of weird sexual dominance.   

 

Any blood mage (especially Merrill, since she couldn't heal herself apart from potions) in party obviously dropped the blood magic, when their health go low, so healer can do something for them.

 

Seriously tough, I don't link my gameplay to the lore/story very much. I just use, what I see as an effective fighting method (you could say, I just see bunch of numbers behind it and perhaps some flashy graphics).

[andy6915]

Seriously you would consider my fighting style in DAO completely revolting... Warden's health = Morrigan's casting pool...    Hmm... you could consider it being some part of weird sexual dominance. 

 
I actually did that on my last playthrough, had a Morrigan romance. They decided that if she needed health badly enough, she was allowed to drain what she needed. It was a sign of great trust and respect, he trusted her not to drain enough to affect him and she trusted him enough to know he wouldn't be a hypocrite and get mad that she actually did it. He was a warrior with a very significant amount of constitution and a very high health regen rate, so it's not like it was a big deal. I never made her drain anyone else, but she was allowed to drain him if he had a lot of health to spare.
 
Love is a weakness, Morrigan? Seems like love gave you a tactical advantage.

Seriously tough, I don't link my gameplay to the lore/story very much. I just use, what I see as an effective fighting method (you could say, I just see bunch of numbers behind it and perhaps some flashy graphics).

Not to me. I try to link gameplay and story as much as possible.

[SgtSteel91]

 Almost all of the Blood Mages seen and even Hawke's Blood Mage spec tree have abilities that drain health from people, control people, or summon Demons. I think it's telling Merrill's Blood Magic abilities are only using her own blood in place of mana and dealing damage to enemies through their blood, which imo is no worse than lighting them on fire or freezing them solid.

[andy6915]

Almost all of the Blood Mages seen and even Hawke's Blood Mage spec tree have abilities that drain health from people, control people, or summon Demons. I think it's telling Merrill's Blood Magic abilities are only using her own blood in place of mana and dealing damage to enemies through their blood, which imo is no worse than lighting them on fire or freezing them solid.

Exactly. Having a good moral compass is canon for Merrill even in gameplay, you can't even force her to drain someone or control someone because she doesn't even give you the option in her spell list.

[Vlada47]

 
I actually did that on my last playthrough, had a Morrigan romance. They decided that if she needed health badly enough, she was allowed to drain what she needed. It was a sign of great trust and respect, he trusted her not to drain enough to affect him and she trusted him enough to know he wouldn't be a hypocrite and get mad that she actually did it. He was a warrior with a very significant amount of constitution and a very high health regen rate, so it's not like it was a big deal. I never made her drain anyone else, but she was allowed to drain him if he had a lot of health to spare.
 
Love is a weakness, Morrigan? Seems like love gave you a tactical advantage.
 

Yeah...

 

We should probably stop going off-topic... maybe start a topic in gameplay section about "How much do you translate your lore views to your playstyle?" or something like that.