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[capn233]

I just finished one last night, and I know others have done this.

 

Without writing a dissertation it seemed like the three big noticeable things were:

 

1. Level Restriction - hard to increase gear stats without increasing level, which means grinding more XP in some cases.  Also meant that going on missions or in areas underleveled meant potentially the gear was very weak.  Eg. Emprise @ 11-12 with The Last Stand.

 

2. Magic and Elemental Resistance - few non-crafted items seem to have much or any of this.  Also harder to stack high Willpower without crafting.  Fire Wraiths were a lot more irritating to me this time.  Shards can ease some of this.

 

3. Critical Chance - is probably going to end up a lot lower than it would otherwise, if that is important to you.  Varric ended with right under 40% IIRC, and my character had mediocre to poor chance except when Rebuke of the Sunderland (req 14) or Axe of the Dragon Hunter (req 16) were equipped.  In any case, the "on crit" passives were reduced in power with low crit chances most of the game.

 

Anybody else have a perspective to share?  Any valuable tips on the best path through the game for decent gear?  It seems like it was hard to outfit more than one character of a similar class with decent gear at once, so I ended up sticking with mostly the same few characters the whole game, and when I did take other characters they were pretty poor with their pauper gear.  What levels did you tend to be for the story missions?  How many continued to do no-crafting regularly after a run?

[KhorneDeth]

I'm in the middle of my first semi-no-crafting run right now... and by that I mean I'm only crafting accessories and that's mainly because I like the look of gear with legs/arms on it way better than plan vanilla.  And only using Tier 1 materials, at that.  Nightmare difficulty, of course.

 

So far, your assessment seems spot on.  Normally I'd spec all Dialog perks first at the war table, but this time I needed more help for big early fights so went with More Potions and Extra Potion slot to make sure I had 12 health pots, regens, and bees on everyone -- even still, Envy was a tough one. 

 

Surprisingly though, the Haven battle went smooth as silk!  I was lvl 10 I think at the time though, which is a bit higher than usual so that probably helped.  Sera was a big help once I got her the bow of Red Something Something from the Astrarium quests in Storm Coast.  That thing is STILL on her and I'm 3-4 lvls further now. 

 

I also found the Axe of Green Edge you get after clearing the lake Fade Rift in Crestwood to be a huge jump in power for my S&S Inquisitor tank -- high dmg plus poison plus a little of that hard-to-come-by Crit Chance.  

 

Overall, I'm liking the added challenge!!  I think this is my 11th playthrough so by now I've gotten pretty good at most fights, so having to use that without the normal sick crafted gear is pretty damn fun.  Ripping through hordes with Tier 4 everything is fun sure, but needing to pay attention and position and stay on top of your potions and all that....  yeah it's pretty damn fun, too.

 

EDIT:  Oh, also it's great to actually sorta look forward to looting again!  Crafting makes almost all loot obsolete, but not now!

[capn233]

Yeah, the RNG from chests is meaningful, and gold is a bit more important.  I stripped accessories off weapons or armor when I got them, if I wasn't going to use that particular item, or by mid game I bought some from merchants.

 

It helps to know where some of the better equipment that is static / looted from the same story point.  Bane of Red Crossing from the Storm Coast astrarium reward is about as good as you can do early game for a bow.  Requires Level 8 IIRC, like most of the decent pre-Skyhold rares or uniques.

 

Also somewhat interestingly, it was easier mid game for me to keep up with Bianca upgrades than find a decent replacement for BoRC on Sera (around 12 or so).  IIRC Bonny Sims's inventory updates periodically (story missions, new areas?).  The best free bow for mid-game off the top of my head is Perseverance (req 15) which you can get from the "Chantry sister" in the Hissing Wastes (talking to her 3 or 4 times).  There is a big jump from 8 to 15 though.  I ended up buying Sera Grunsmann's Bow (req 13) from Sims after slogging through the first part of Emprise after getting Skyhold.

[Inex]

I'm also in the middle of my first no crafting no focus run. I'm allowed to upgrade potions but i can't craft anything: any piece of armor, weapons and runes. I'm playing a DW tempest rogue with Dorian, two handed Cassandra and sns Blackwall. Envy was okay at level 8 but Fiona was really hard at level 10. For the first time playing this game i had to retry about 10 times and it was actually pretty fun (i had Solas in this battle because Dorian didn't join yet). If i had Sera or Viv instead of Cassandra it would probably be easier.

 

Anyways here are a few pre-Skyhold tips:

 

- Purple accessories in the black emporium have no level restriction. I bought the 5% crit chance 10% crit damage (i think these are the numbers) ring pretty early on.

- Astrariums give some good loot.

- Go for the following inquisition perks ASAP: 12 potions, extra potion slot, optimal cutting (helps a lot if you want to upgrade your potions) and deft hands fine tools (this gives you access to some good loot). Recruit all the agents in the hinterlands to help unlock some perks.

- Collect some shards for elemental resistance. I always go for the cold resistance first because the last door gives me an Amulet of Power and cold resist is good for some dragons, demons and JOH DLC.

- Mighty offense potion (obtained in the storm coast) is really good early on if you are melee.

 

After reaching Skyhold:

 

- More inq perks: extra focus (unless you are doing a no focus run like me), true grit (essential), the short list, elite clientele, exclusive training.

- Some good gear: 30% fire resist belt (astrarium in crestwood), axe of green edges (lake fade rift in crestwood), two handed weapons i forgot the name: one in caer bronach boss and another in the fallow mire avvar boss, Tempest in western approach dungeon (really good staff and only requires level 12).

 

 

I'm only level 13 so i still have a long way to go, but so far this is my experience.

[capn233]

^That's similar to the levels I did Champions and Heart Shall Burn (2H + Cass + Sera + Solas), and I thought Fiona and her band of merry mages were a lot more annoying.  If I were going to play it again, I would probably go with Vivienne over Sera (double barrier and dispel that way).

 

The great axe from Fallow Mire is Gift of the Mountain Father (req 7) and is probably the best 2H readily available pre-Skyhold, but I didn't get it unfortunately.  The one in Caer Bronach is The Last Stand (req 8), and that was a big step up for my character over Warlord Greatsword (Spirit in the Lake, req 3).

 

Those perks are what I used, in a similar order.  Later I got the ones to open the vault just because I had never opened it before.

[PapaCharlie9]

@capn233, did you run hardcore no crafting (literally no crafting of anything) or just no-crafting of gear? I'm still in the middle of a no-crafting gear run, but I do craft runes, potions and grenades. I don't know how anyone survives the Haven boss battle on Nightmare with no grenades and crap gear!

 

You hit all the major observations -- the level limit one was a real game-changer for me. A few things I'd add:

 

* Gold becomes much more important, so I ended up prioritizing Connections Perks that economize (get more for loot, pay less for gear). I usually ignore those Perks in normal PTs.

 

* War Table mission priorities change. Those that pay in gold or gear are now much more important.

 

* Learning which merchant sells what: I never bothered with this either, but after wasting tons of time going to the wrong merchant (note to self: Redcliffe does not carry light armor upgrades!), I'm finally learning.

 

* Resource management becomes more important. I rarely used more than 3 or 4 healing potions, partywide, for entire quests, like WEWH. Now finding those darn resupply crates and spacing out healing between them is more important. Same with potions, tonics, grenades, and even focus bars.

 

* Companions are gonna die, even during run-of-the-mill random encounters. No matter how well prepared I am, someone always ends up dying. 

 

But the biggest change for me is that battles are a lot more challenging, which means a lot more fun. Abyss was a completely different experience. I'd usually breeze through Abyss in half an hour or less. No-crafting, over two hours.

 

So mission accomplished! No-crafting ups the challenge just enough without tipping over into insta-death frustration.

[capn233]

It didn't really occur to me to consider potions and grenades crafting, so I used those.  Most used of either was Bees early, then I started using Mighty Offense for some things later in the game (dragons or Corypheus mainly).  I upgraded Regens, but didn't end up using too many really.  I didn't even buy elemental resist recipes this time, although Fire would have been helpful.

 

I didn't craft anything else except one piece of tier 1 armor for the original sidequest in Haven.  By late game I was considering crafting runes, but I did not.

 

It did feel like I never had much gold.  I was spending a lot on respec amulets though.  I did eventually look up rewards for war table missions and where some of the gear and weapons were located.

 

I did Abyss at Level 15, I had gotten my specialization (Reaver) and had picked up Rebuke of the Sunderland in Emprise, so I had a good weapon for that level.  But I had originally had this idea to just get passives from Reaver to make my character sort of like Katari in MP, so I didn't have DR.  Also my squad equipment wasn't terribly good, and the Pride Demons took forever to kill.  When I got into the fade, I burned a respec Amulet I had laying around to switch to standard Reaver with Dragon Rage.  Probably if I didn't do that it would have taken me much longer for the Nightmare boss.

 

Worst stretch for me as far as potion drinking was clearing Suledin Keep.  Damage output was poor, and it seemed like there was one fewer resupply cache than I remembered.  This was at 14 IIRC.

 

Speaking of frustration, I started a mage game tonight and didn't remember how poor your starting powers were, especially with FF on...  Managed to kill myself with CL when I got to the rift where you pick up Solas and Varric, and then for some reason the Pride Demon seemed even a bigger PITA than usual.  I must have screwed something up, or it has just been too long since I played the prologue.

[capn233]

On the topic of "undergeared..."

 

As mentioned above, started a mage game.  Last night I did Hushed Whispers at Level 7, which is nominally the upper limit of the recommended range.  And for whatever reason I decided to take Solas and Sera along with default Dorian.  No potions or grenades other than health pots.

 

My party had terrible damage output.  And to be honest I didn't remember some of the rooms with the spellbinders having as many mooks as they did.  It would have probably been better for me to wait one level for 8 to be able to throw on much better equipment.  Maybe also somewhat build related, although main character is "dps" with Fire Mine, Solas pure support, Dorian was mainly for Static Cage (FM or FW might have been better).  Sera cloaked Full Draw (w/ Dalish Bow) only took Spellbinders to 50% health, which was sad.

 

After that I ended up just running around Forbidden Oasis to grab all the shards before the enemies show up.  Not sure how much I want to grind before the Haven mission, but I will probably end up at least going to the Merc Fortress to get the masterwork armor for Cassandra, and run around to get the Tyrdda locations.

[Shevy]

I did a Mage non-crafting nm run lately and man, the damage output of double mage setups on low levels is horrible. I did " In Your Heart Shall Burn" at level 8 with Solas, Cassandra and Varric against the Red Templars. I have never ever encountered something more challenging in DA:I.

[PapaCharlie9]

On the topic of "undergeared..."

 

As mentioned above, started a mage game.  Last night I did Hushed Whispers at Level 7, which is nominally the upper limit of the recommended range.  And for whatever reason I decided to take Solas and Sera along with default Dorian.  No potions or grenades other than health pots.

 

My party had terrible damage output.  And to be honest I didn't remember some of the rooms with the spellbinders having as many mooks as they did.  It would have probably been better for me to wait one level for 8 to be able to throw on much better equipment.  Maybe also somewhat build related, although main character is "dps" with Fire Mine, Solas pure support, Dorian was mainly for Static Cage (FM or FW might have been better).  Sera cloaked Full Draw (w/ Dalish Bow) only took Spellbinders to 50% health, which was sad.

 

After that I ended up just running around Forbidden Oasis to grab all the shards before the enemies show up.  Not sure how much I want to grind before the Haven mission, but I will probably end up at least going to the Merc Fortress to get the masterwork armor for Cassandra, and run around to get the Tyrdda locations.

 

 

I did a Mage non-crafting nm run lately and man, the damage output of double mage setups on low levels is horrible. I did " In Your Heart Shall Burn" at level 8 with Solas, Cassandra and Varric against the Red Templars. I have never ever encountered something more challenging in DA:I.

 

I had an easier time at level 8 and lower by having two warriors in the party. If you are running a mage, I think 2 warriors + archer is your best party for survivability. Even the archer is questionable and might need to be a third warrior (Cass and Blackwall, not IB) in Whispers. For Templars, IIRC, I ran with with IQ warrior, Blackwall, Sera and Solas.

[capn233]

^I would need to respec my character since I don't have anything in Spirit

 

Since I will have Templar during the Haven mission, I was actually thinking of running Blackwall instead of a rogue this time.

 

To add on some more ill-advised misadventures, I wasted a lot of time last night trying to kill the Fereldan Frostback at Level 9.  It was mostly just a debacle.  Of course the biggest reason this dragon is hard is because the AI is too dumb to avoid walking directly into fire that is on the ground (not even talking about the dragon attacks).  Doesn't help that some do stupid things like Fade Step into the danger zone after you manually move them close during the wing flap bs attack (thanks for wasting health pots Vivienne).

 

Couldn't get past 50% when the 'lings show up.  Best was when I controlled Cass from the start, but even then the party is too stupid and weak once the 'lings arrive.

 

I did find that I could probably kill it solo as my mage if I was willing to use the range "exploit" though.  It would take forever though.

[capn233]

I ended up killing the Frostback at Level 10 last night, no grenades or tonics (can't buy resist this early anyway afaik).  Cass, Dorian, Solas.  Solas and I had Hoarfrost staves, Dorian had Keeper Ice.  Cass had Serrated Qunari Blade, the armor from the merc fortress, and Schaefer's Rampart (from a cave in Storm Coast, chance for Horn of Valor).  Had to run tac cam basically the entire time and disable nearly everything on the mages to get it done.  Specifically Fade Step since they would use it extremely poorly.  Cassandra did fine left to her own devices, for the most part.

 

I ended up taking Cass, Blackwall and Solas for Heart Shall Burn, and we rolled over them for most of the mission (dual Fire Wall helps somewhat).  But for the last trebuchet it was hard to actually keep all the aggro off the inquisitor in order to just turn the crank which is what I try to do instead of fighting the last wave.  It is a bit easier if you take Bees.

[PapaCharlie9]

I ended up killing the Frostback at Level 10 last night, no grenades or tonics (can't buy resist this early anyway afaik).  Cass, Dorian, Solas.  Solas and I had Hoarfrost staves, Dorian had Keeper Ice.  Cass had Serrated Qunari Blade, the armor from the merc fortress, and Schaefer's Rampart (from a cave in Storm Coast, chance for Horn of Valor).  Had to run tac cam basically the entire time and disable nearly everything on the mages to get it done.  Specifically Fade Step since they would use it extremely poorly.  Cassandra did fine left to her own devices, for the most part.

That's amazing! I can't imagine taking on any dragon without an archer. What skills for damage did Dorian and Solas have active? I'm also interested in the trade-off of Fade Step vs. some other low cost active skills. If I have Fade Step at all, I only put it on one mage that I control for most of the battle.

For low level/-4 or more under level battles with dragons, I generally respec the party specifically for the best tactics vs. that dragon. For example, I swap out Immolate for Winter's Chill vs. the Frostback. Pre-specialization, I leaned very heavily on an Archer doing nothing but Poison Weapons + Leaping Shot, although for the Frostback I also had Explosive Shot enabled.

[capn233]

All of the mages had Energy Barrage, but only the Inquisitor's was upgraded.  Solas and the Inquisitor had Winter's Grasp.  Dorian is spec'd more heavily into the lightning tree for upgraded Static Cage, which is of limited use in this battle.  It might have been better to respec him so I could have an extra WG when the dragonlings arrived.

 

The reason I went with this composition was for dual Barriers since nobody had much fire resistance to speak of (I had 4 from shards + 17 from fire resistance cowl).  I think Solas and Dorian had some trivial amount of magic defense.  Sera didn't seem to do enough damage when I took her at level 9 and would get instagibbed too easily anyway.  I had her spec'd on the right side of archery down to Full Draw and did not have Leaping Shot.  She did have Evade.  When I tried at 9 I wasn't too interested in completely microing the entire party so perhaps if I would have given Sera another chance it might have worked.  If I was going to respec though, I guess I could have also picked up Barrier on the Inquisitor and dropped Fire tree stuff like Fire Mine and Wall.  Fire Wall does panic the 'lings though, even if it doesn't really do a lot of damage to them.

 

For AI, I think Fade Step is a net positive even if you don't micro them, at least for most battles.  For dragons the problem is that they sometimes will fade step away from the dragon when it does wing flap, even when they are in the "eye of the storm" already.  I have also seen Solas FS off a cliff before, and in Heart Shall Burn, he would sometimes end up more isolated than I would have liked and I had to order him to move.

 

Since all 3 mages had FS and I turned it off in tactics, I was able to keep them together in a group and fade step together into a new spot when the dragon would decide to do a fire attack, or could fade step inwards when it would raise its wings for the flap attack.  However, one of the times I did that Solas and the Inquisitor magically teleported back out of the "eye" and I had to blow 2 health pots.

[PapaCharlie9]

I see. So Fade Step was mostly to counter hurricane attacks, not for frost damage from the upgrade.

Yeah, I hear you about the Archer tree. You want the right side for Pincushion and then have to spend extra to get Leaping Shot.

But, it's a bigger accomplishment without an Archer. Well done!

[capn233]

No, none of the mages had the upgrade yet.

 

I have always had an archer in the party in previous runs, but I never fought the Fereldan dragon at this low a level before.

[Exalus]

I wrote a long wall of text with advice but it looks like you've already more than mastered the game to be able to kill frosty at level 10 with no crafting.

It all comes down to making your tank immortal through a combination of skills and gear.

 

Getting one of these to drop makes the game so much smoother:

[capn233]

Yeah that is a good sword for the tanks.  In this run I managed to pick up two of them early game so Cass and Blackwall both had one.  Then I got another doing Iron Bull's personal quest, although I was a bit overleveled for this sword by then.

[PapaCharlie9]

Yeah that is a good sword for the tanks.  In this run I managed to pick up two of them early game so Cass and Blackwall both had one.  Then I got another doing Iron Bull's personal quest, although I was a bit overleveled for this sword by then.

I totally missed that one. Gain guard is nice. I've got 3 out of 4 party members almost all purple by this point, so I can't complain really.