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[Aren]

 

 

5. They obviously don't know what happens, after Old Gods are dead. Nobody knows. 

The darkspawn will be no longer under the influence of the calling and they will start to develop higher intelligence,this is all.

[Statare]

I think the quest works better for the fact that Erimond is the mustache-twirling villain. Clarel is the anti-villain here; Erimond needed to be an actual evil person taking advantage of the Grey Wardens' desperation. And honestly, I can't think of any sympathetic reasons why someone would want to bring down the Wardens or make them slaves to Corypheus.

Also, how would you shoehorn that in? Whike at the Ritual tower, Erimond makes a sad speech about how his Warden father used to beat him, therefore he hates all Wardens? That would be very awkward.

And really, aren't there enough servants of the Elder One with sympathetic motives? What's wrong with villains acting out of honest-to-God greed or lust for power?

Calpernia- Evil, but trying to end slavery in Tevinter
Samson-Evil, but has been abused by the Chantry all his life
Alexius-Evil, but trying to save his son
The Freemen of the Dales-Evil, but tired of fighting a pointless civil war

 

I am not saying Erimond is bad per se as a foil for the Wardens. I am more saying that going from "there is something wrong with the Wardens, I wonder why and what this has to do with Corypheus" to as soon as you arrive in the WA (pretty much) you stumble across a blatant scene of horrifying blood magic, and Erimond flippantly lays out Cory's plans. This adds to the sense that the Wardens are foolish, because clearly you are meant to dislike Erimond with out much thought to the whole thing, which degrades the role he is supposed to have had with the Wardens: he persuaded them. I'm not saying this scene was "bad" in that it does nothing complicated or well, but that it is bad to develop our sympathies for the Wardens, as it is much easier to think them foolish for trusting someone so obviously, to the extent of fitting a very basic villain archetype, not a good guy. I just wish prior to this scene we could have heard some explication from the Wardens as to their thoughts of Erimond, their desperation, and their motivations, so that the scene at the ritual tower would have had less a chance of face palming on the side of us, the all knowing, biased players.

 

Edit: Personally I dislike the foppish, evil for the sake of evil, villain. Some people might like that. But my opinion Erimond has no point in the story that could not have been better filled by someone like the Architect or the Nightmare Demon. Erimond, I feel, is only in the story so we can cut off someone's head at the end of the quest arc at our Throne. Which personally was not something I needed.

[Aren]

Where did you get that info?

info about the old god? From silent grove and Yavana,these dragons are hibernated,they do not sleep because of reasons like the GW believe

you can awake them in two way.

1)With the taint for an Archdemon

2)With dragon blood and some ritual for the original old god.

[diaspora2k5]

A few things:
 

• I think only the southern thedas/ Orlesian Wardens could hear the calling due to range. The HOF didn't hear it because he/she was too far out west past Orlais, it makes sense that Weisshaupt at hundreds if not thousands of miles away would be out of range too.
• All of the Warden Commanders have the ability to act as they see fit, their best judgement is trusted; Clarel failed. She failed herself, the order, and her soldiers.
• Stroud/ Alistair/ Loghain/ Warrior and Rogue Wardens largely (but not universally) recognized that Clarel's plan was utter lunacy with Clarel herself taking a step back
• Weisshaupt was concerned with Clarel terminating contact with HQ leading into DAI.

[Merengues 1945]

I think Sera pretty much put it just perfectly.

 

Wardens are a bad kind of good, the kind of good that needs something wrong to happen first.

 

all of this Warden hate it's just because there's not a blight going on. Suddenly they're relics, fools, madmen, delusional assholes, incompetent, etcetera etcetera... I think that since pretty much no one but them and the dwarves really know the extent of darkspawn threat, no one really is in a moral highground to judge them or their tactics.

 

Sure, Clarel was the perfect example of being hogwashed and taking all the bad choices, but Clarel was not the order. The Inquisitor and everyone are in their high horses judging the wardens because of the wardens and flemeth, otherwise all of them would be dead. Also, everyone in Inquisition was crazy just for the sake of setting the world on fire for no apparent reason.

 

when the next blight comes pretty much everyone will eat their words and then cry for a Grey Warden to appear mounted on a griffon to save the day.

 

 

I have doubts any military officer is told over and over that you are the last defense versus the end of the world.

Trying to compare the Wardens to any regular military is futile, don't bother. These people aren't heroes, they aren't picked to be the best of the best, many are conscripted, a lot are criminals. The only thing that matters is that you survive the joining, and then they have a leash on you.

Listen to Hawke and the Warden companion's talk. The Wardens can't concieve of a world that could do without them. They've spent a good portion of their lives being told it's all on them. And that is all they have.

Add to that whatever else the Nightmare might be whispering, and the fact they've been indulged by everyone for so long...boom.

 

These are the grey wardens, not the night's watch, (try not to mix your fantasy please) they don't take just some random guy, they only take those who have great martial prowess, cunning or magical talent, some of them may be criminals, while others are kings... Also, the right of conscription it's only pulled as a last resort, and you pretty much are free to go like Anders did (he wasn't even send to a circle), the only catch is that Darkspawn will eventually find you in any case, and you may want to have some warden next to you then.

 

And last I heard, they killed five archdemons for good, who else has slain one? They're heroes since they could run from their responsability but they chose to save a bunch of ungrateful bastards.

 

And also, it may sound bad but they are pretty much the only thing between the world and utter anihilation from the blight. Obviously in real life no one is told that (at least in western armies) but Thedas is not the real world, it's a world where dragons exist and the wardens are the coolest guys ever.

[diaspora2k5]

I think Sera pretty much put it just perfectly.

 

Wardens are a bad kind of good, the kind of good that needs something wrong to happen first.

 

all of this Warden hate it's just because there's not a blight going on. Suddenly they're relics, fools, madmen, delusional assholes, incompetent, etcetera etcetera... I think that since pretty much no one but them and the dwarves really know the extent of darkspawn threat, no one really is in a moral highground to judge them or their tactics.

 

Sure, Clarel was the perfect example of being hogwashed and taking all the bad choices, but Clarel was not the order. The Inquisitor and everyone are in their high horses judging the wardens because of the wardens and flemeth, otherwise all of them would be dead. Also, everyone in Inquisition was crazy just for the sake of setting the world on fire for no apparent reason.

 

when the next blight comes pretty much everyone will eat their words and then cry for a Grey Warden to appear mounted on a griffon to save the day.

 

 

 

These are the grey wardens, not the night's watch, (try not to mix your fantasy please) they don't take just some random guy, they only take those who have great martial prowess, cunning or magical talent, some of them may be criminals, while others are kings... Also, the right of conscription it's only pulled as a last resort, and you pretty much are free to go like Anders did (he wasn't even send to a circle), the only catch is that Darkspawn will eventually find you in any case, and you may want to have some warden next to you then.

 

And last I heard, they killed five archdemons for good, who else has slain one? They're heroes since they could run from their responsability but they chose to save a bunch of ungrateful bastards.

 

And also, it may sound bad but they are pretty much the only thing between the world and utter anihilation from the blight. Obviously in real life no one is told that (at least in western armies) but Thedas is not the real world, it's a world where dragons exist and the wardens are the coolest guys ever.

The thing with the Wardens is that yes they do believe they're the only ones that can stop the Darkspawn from destroying the world but at the same time there is a lot of truth to that. They are the only people that can stop the Darkspawn from destroying everyone. They along with the Legion of the Dead are the only people who actually know how close everyone's lives are to the brink. IIRC this is why Carver becomes so stoic after joining the Wardens, he comes to realize how inconsequential everything he used to get mad about was.

 

edit: The Wardens are more than an order that kills archdemons, if you read Last Flight you'll see that they're probably the one and only group in Thedas, military or otherwise with their resources 100% dedicated to fighting Darkspawn- and even with that their wars and Blights last dozens of years. It's not just about fighting 24/7 365 days a year (which they do), it's about how they spend their entire shortened lives studying and researching the Darkspawn as well.

 

edit 2: Clarel was still daft tho. She didn't even try to reach out for help to the other Wardens and instead just cut all contact.