61 réponses à ce sujet

[Loufi]

In solos, I mean. I'm curious about that because, while I have some clues about platinum, I rarely solo gold, actually. Those two time marks are usually the ones targeted by speedrunners. 

 

On paper, the total budget of a platinum match is only 22,4% higher than the total budget of a gold match (assuming that only the first spawn is killed during objectives waves), so it should be easier to sub-30 plat. However, the budget is far from being a perfect representation of the time to kill. For instance, the respective costs of a Centurion* and an Atlas are 30 and 100, while taking down an Atlas takes way more than three times the duration needed to kill a Centurion. The waves composition are also different, as the way to handle objectives waves, so comparing the budgets to find out isn't of much help. I think the soloers' experience is way more valuable to answer the question.

 

 

 

*I use Cerberus units because it's the most used faction for speedruns.

[The NightMan Cometh]

I would say Gold...I have only tried to do a plat solo just 3 times...I cannot crack the 25 minute mark on a gold solo..Going to try a Talon GI vs cerberus on glacier in about 3 hours.. can't get under 25 min probably cuz I never use AC5 or intentionally nuke spawns...like to save em in case wave 10 targets

[Caineghis2500]

I would say Gold...I have only tried to do a plat solo just 3 times...I cannot crack the 25 minute mark on a gold solo..Going to try a Talon GI vs cerberus on glacier in about 3 hours.. can't get under 25 min probably cuz I never use AC5 or intentionally nuke spawns...like to save em in case wave 10 targets

lol you dont need AC5 to get a sub 20 much less 25 in gold

[FasterThanFTL]

Geth Platinum>>>>>>Geth Gold

 

Collector Platinum>>>>Collector Gold

 

Cerberus Platinum>>>Cerberus Gold

 

Reaper Platinum>>>Reaper Gold

 

Overall Platinum>>>>Overall Gold

[Mgamerz]

I just bring nightslasher and both are easy.

[TMB903]

Platinum. More boss units->more health/armor/barrier/shields->longer TTK. Gold is really about farming for those perfect objective waves where Plat combines both. I don't have the patience for soloing the way some of my friends do haha.

[._.]

Seriously? Sub 30 platinum by far.

[Deerber]

I would say it depends on kit, map and enemy.

If you're asking in general, I'm gonna go on a stretch here and say sub 20 gold is harder, simply because bad objectives are going to matter a lot more. If you mod your objectives, I really don't know. I don't have any experience soloing platinum fast, so I guess I'm not the right person to answer, but here are my 2 cents anyway.

[Loufi]

Seriously ? Sub 30 platinum by far.

Yes. As I said, I've done a stupid amount of plat solos but, in comparison, only a few gold solos.

 

I would say it depends on kit, map and enemy.

If you're asking in general, I'm gonna go on a stretch here and say sub 20 gold is harder, simply because bad objectives are going to matter a lot more. If you mod your objectives, I really don't know. I don't have any experience soloing platinum fast, so I guess I'm not the right person to answer, but here are my 2 cents anyway.

Yes and no. An advantage with gold is that it's easy to swith targets, while it's only possible in plat on wave 6 Reapers and wave 3 Collectors. But, on the other hand, getting bad devices (let's say, more than 2 minutes) really sucks for sub-20ing gold, while it's less a problem for plat.

 

On other problem (but somehow related) for consoles, especially PS3, is that the more than 1 minute loading time weights more for gold.   

 

I would say Gold...I have only tried to do a plat solo just 3 times...I cannot crack the 25 minute mark on a gold solo..Going to try a Talon GI vs cerberus on glacier in about 3 hours.. can't get under 25 min probably cuz I never use AC5 or intentionally nuke spawns...like to save em in case wave 10 targets

Well, if you're going for speed, you have to nuke spawns and hope you will not get targets wave 10. 

[Caineghis2500]

Well, if you're going for speed, you have to nuke spawns and hope you will not get targets wave 10. 

 

I think he means he could easily sub 20 if he spawn nuked like the rest of us but he just doesn't want to 

[TheNightSlasher]

sub-30 platinum, but not by much.

 

A lot of characters don't have the DPS to mow down bosses and/or CQC for goon/phantom massacre. It's a bit easier to deal with it on gold.

[BloodBeforeTears]

IMO, sub-20 on gold is very much a contrived art, and basically reduces to how fast you can beat some faction on glacier by either 1.) wall hacking, 2.) grenade spamming, or 3.) nuking spawns with AC5.  Of course, if you are an HM-enabled geth, then you get to do both 1.) and 3.)

 

The reason I say that it is "contrived" is simply due to the fact that sub-20 gold on any map besides glacier means you have to get pretty lucky for spawns/objectives to work out favorably.

 

sub-30 on plat?  well the big difference is that you get an extra 10 minutes - which means that other, more "solo-friendly" maps, like FB white, become viable candidates.  Then again, I haven't ever had the desire to attempt a speedrun on plat (after all, there is no speedrun thread for platinum).

[Loufi]

IMO, sub-20 on gold is very much a contrived art, and basically reduces to how fast you can beat some faction on glacier by either 1.) wall hacking, 2.) grenade spamming, or 3.) nuking spawns with AC5.  Of course, if you are an HM-enabled geth, then you get to do both 1.) and 3.)

 

The reason I say that it is "contrived" is simply due to the fact that sub-20 gold on any map besides glacier means you have to get pretty lucky for spawns/objectives to work out favorably.

 

sub-30 on plat?  well the big difference is that you get an extra 10 minutes - which means that other, more "solo-friendly" maps, like FB white, become viable candidates.  Then again, I haven't ever had the desire to attempt a speedrun on plat (after all, there is no speedrun thread for platinum).

Yes, but the difference in the amount of health / shields, etc., to destroy is huge between gold and plat. Here is a comparison between the first spawn of wave 1 Cerberus, for gold and plat :

 

Gold : around 12800 health and 7200 shields ;

Plat : around 13100 health, 59000 shields, 8000 barriers and 55000 armor.

 

As I said, the gap is astronomical. IMO the fact that most runs in the gold solos thread are on Glacier is more because people compete to get the best time (so they pick the fastest map 95% of the time) than because it's too hard to sub-20 on other maps. I think that a good PC Javelin / BW GI or DAI or a Reegar kroguard / batguard can reliably sub-20 gold in all maps.

 

As for plat, completing the solo is already quite an accomplishment, so yeah, there isn't a specific speedruns thread for this difficulty. The number of participants would be really too small.

 

I find interesting that there isn't a consensus about the question. I  myself don't have a definitive opinion at this point.

[BloodBeforeTears]

I find interesting that there isn't a consensus about the question. I  myself don't have a definitive opinion at this point.

 

The reason is likely because 1.) it is highly subjective, and 2.) certain kit/weapon combos will have an easier time soloing platinum sub-30 than gold sub-20 (or vice versa).

[Loufi]

The reason is likely because 1.) it is highly subjective, and 2.) certain kit/weapon combos will have an easier time soloing platinum sub-30 than gold sub-20 (or vice versa).

Indeed. For instance, while Lift Grenades kinda trivialize gold solos VS Cerberus, they don't do much against the platinum big bosses. 

[BloodBeforeTears]

Indeed. For instance, while Lift Grenades kinda trivialize gold solos VS Cerberus, they don't do much against the platinum big bosses. 

 

True.  Interestingly, although I can think of several examples similar to the lift grenades instance, where gold is made trivial, but plat is not, I cannot think of a single example working the opposite direction (class that has no problem soloing plat sub-30, but may have issues soloing gold sub-20).

 

If such an example doesn't exist, than that is some support for the "sub-30 plat is generally more difficult than sub-20 gold" argument.

 

*edit:  Just based off of the fastest times, it seems that the geth trooper does a better job trivializing plat sub-30 than gold sub-20.  Fastest time for gold = 13:59 (uses 70% of allotted time), plat = 16:29 (uses 55% of allotted time).  So you are looking at only a 2:30 difference between gold and plat there.

[Heldarion]

Sub-30 platinum, easily.

[ClydeInTheShell]

My opinion, admittedly less experienced in platinum soloing than most of you, is that sub-20 on gold would be more difficult. 

 

My reasoning is simple: yes, there are higher wave budgets, and more armor/shields/barriers, etc, but because there are more boss units, you have the ability to mow through the budgets faster due to this same fact. 

 

Again, it's my opinion and I have very little experience to base it on but that's what I thought of when I read the question so there.

[The NightMan Cometh]

Like I said earlier..It is probably a sub 20 gold..BUT...I was trying to see if I could at least crack the 25 minute mark without nuking...Just did a GI Piranha vs Cerberus on Glacier...I made it to halfway thru wave 5 at exactly 8 minutes..I quit cuz I was already thru 4 gels 

[Heldarion]

My opinion, admittedly less experienced in platinum soloing than most of you, is that sub-20 on gold would be more difficult. 

 

My reasoning is simple: yes, there are higher wave budgets, and more armor/shields/barriers, etc, but because there are more boss units, you have the ability to mow through the budgets faster due to this same fact. 

 

Again, it's my opinion and I have very little experience to base it on but that's what I thought of when I read the question so there.

 

That's also if the enemies afford you the time to 100-0 a boss without going bananas on you, in which case the boss will regenerate a lot of shields/barriers because **** you.

[PatrickBateman]

Sub 30 platinum is according to me far more difficult and something I haven't been close to doing yet, my fastest run was around 44 min or so.

On gold things die so much faster and you can play a lot more aggressive. I did a 30 min flawless solo on gold - trust me I will never pull off a 40 min flawless run on platinum.

[TheTechnoTurian]

Sub-30 plat is harder, IMO 

 

Gold is more forgiving, and sub-20 can still be done with sub-optimal objectives or sub-optimal loadouts with the vast majority of kits in the game.  To sub-30 platinum, most kits except the strongest can only do it with a small pool of overpowered weapons and decent objectives. 

[Deerber]

Yes, but the difference in the amount of health / shields, etc., to destroy is huge between gold and plat. Here is a comparison between the first spawn of wave 1 Cerberus, for gold and plat :

Gold : around 12800 health and 7200 shields ;
Plat : around 13100 health, 59000 shields, 8000 barriers and 55000 armor.

As I said, the gap is astronomical. IMO the fact that most runs in the gold solos thread are on Glacier is more because people compete to get the best time (so they pick the fastest map 95% of the time) than because it's too hard to sub-20 on other maps. I think that a good PC Javelin / BW GI or DAI or a Reegar kroguard / batguard can reliably sub-20 gold in all maps.

As for plat, completing the solo is already quite an accomplishment, so yeah, there isn't a specific speedruns thread for this difficulty. The number of participants would be really too small.

I find interesting that there isn't a consensus about the question. I myself don't have a definitive opinion at this point.

How did you work out the number of shields/barriers/whatever? It depends on what you kill, so...

Besides, you picked wave 1, which is by far the least fair comparison - pick wave 9 and the difference, while still definitely important, isn't going to be *that* big.

That being said, with Slasher and Techno peeking in with their opinions, I'd say that the most experienced and informed in this regard seem to agree that platinum is harder. I'm not so sure it applies to someone approaching speedrunning for the first time, but it seems like it's the consensus among experienced gold/platinum speedrunners.

[ark]

I have done sub 30 plat, but my fastest gold is just under 25 min i think. most of my plats are done on white thought, where you can set up a nice killzone in the hallway, and there is always something rushing you, so there is never any downtime. On gold i find i have to run around the map and attack the spawns more to go fast, and it usualy ends up with mooks spread around the map in cover. 

So to answer the question, gold is probably easier, if you know how to do it.

[Loufi]

True.  Interestingly, although I can think of several examples similar to the lift grenades instance, where gold is made trivial, but plat is not, I cannot think of a single example working the opposite direction (class that has no problem soloing plat sub-30, but may have issues soloing gold sub-20).

 

If such an example doesn't exist, than that is some support for the "sub-30 plat is generally more difficult than sub-20 gold" argument.

 

*edit:  Just based off of the fastest times, it seems that the geth trooper does a better job trivializing plat sub-30 than gold sub-20.  Fastest time for gold = 13:59 (uses 70% of allotted time), plat = 16:29 (uses 55% of allotted time).  So you are looking at only a 2:30 difference between gold and plat there.

Yes. To be honest, when I gave the Lift grenades example, I wanted to give an opposite example... but couldn't find one lol. I thought first that maybe characters with less crowd control abilities but high weapon dps would be more comfortable at sub-30ing plat than sub-20 ing gold, but several PC players sub-20 gold easily with GI, Tsol, etc. (and even sub-15 or better in some cases).

 

Your Geth trooper example is good. His relative better performance in plat is IMO caused by Flamer doing most of its damage by DoT. It's also easier to get enemies into a funnel in plat, as then often get stuck behind the Atlases. In gold, mooks are more spread around the map (ah nemeses...).    

 

How did you work out the number of shields/barriers/whatever? It depends on what you kill, so...

Besides, you picked wave 1, which is by far the least fair comparison - pick wave 9 and the difference, while still definitely important, isn't going to be *that* big.

That being said, with Slasher and Techno peeking in with their opinions, I'd say that the most experienced and informed in this regard seem to agree that platinum is harder. I'm not so sure it applies to someone approaching speedrunning for the first time, but it seems like it's the consensus among experienced gold/platinum speedrunners.

As I said Deerber, it's just the first spawn (not the total amount you have to kill in the entire wave), which is always the same. I know that comparing the waves 1 isn't very fair, I did it just to illustrate how big the difference is and to suggest that some strategies which can trivialize the first gold waves (grenades spamming, Charge + Nova, etc.) can't trivialize the first plat waves.