22 réponses à ce sujet

[ME3EndingH8er]

Tl; dr – Bullet points at the bottom

This is quite long so I get it if you don’t want to read it all . Just had to get my thoughts out in hope some Bioware employee will see this and take it to heart lol

 

 

After having played through DA:I and it’s DLCs several times now, I have come to the conclusion that despite Bioware not wanting to do an Awakening esq expansion for whatever reason (maybe they want to focus on DA4, maybe they don’t want to create a large scale story involving the Inquisition in order to keep story cohesiveness for DA4, idk), an expansion sized DLC is essential, whether you call it a DLC, expansion or whatever.

Firstly, one of the biggest complaints about DA:I was its short story. We need a strong story to experience with our Inquisitor and the wonderful companions. We need closure with Solas, and whilst I’m sure we’ll get a DLC focussing on him, it can’t be some short 5 hour DLC like JoH and The Descent. This is a huge event that can’t be wrapped up quickly; it would feel cheap and tacked on. Solas had a huge impact on our Inquisitor, especially if romanced, and that sort of relationship and abandonment can’t be handled the way Witch Hunt was. Witch Hunt had so much potential but ended up being a 2 hour ‘story’ that had a cameo from Morrigan  This is not closure. IMO the only way to solve this issue would be to have Solas be an NPC in the story, he appears in the middle of the DLC and we interact with him for the rest of the story. Our Inquisitor can’t find out his true nature off screen, that would be so so so so so bad. IF we were going to play as the Inquisitor in DA4 then I could accept a lack of closure with Solas, and perhaps him creating more questions than answers. However I have seen several interviews where DA staff mention wanting to have a new protagonist each game. Personally I think the story mentioned in the supposedly leaked survey sounded very promising. ‘We track down Solas whilst presumably witnessing the beginning on a Qunari invasion, leading to us fighting the main invasion in DA4

 

Leading onto my next point. The expansion is needed to set up DA4. I think something similar was planned for DA2, The Exalted Marches expansion, but that was then scrapped. IMO I think setting up the plot for the next main game in an expansion is a great idea, it can help establish the basic premise for DA4, whilst building hype for it. If it ended on a dark note, that would be even better. Perhaps the threat we face is too great and we don’t win, maybe some companions die, maybe we just fail to defeat the enemy. Regardless, that less than happy ending would be a nice change for DA. I know DA2 sort of had that, but it didn’t really pay off very well in Inquisition with the lack of Hawke and the Mage-Templar conflict being resolved like 8 hours into a 100 hour game. Look at ME2 and The Empire strikes back, both ended on an ominous note with our heroes either defeated or completely outmatched by the coming threat.

 

 

Furthermore, the impression has been given that the DA games are moving North now that the South has had its issues sorted out and that we’ve explored most of the Southern countries. However, we really haven’t seen all the South has to offer. Ferelden is certainly wrapped up (although I wouldn’t mind seeing a current gen Denerim), but the northern and heartland areas of Orlais are utterly uncharted, we’ve only really seen the Dales areas and the far West. The same can be said for the Free Marches, it’s a very interesting area with very diverse cultures in each state, and before heading north I would really love to explore it. Another complaint many had with DA:I was the pathetic city. Whilst I hate to make comparisons with Witcher 3, they managed cities and countryside areas very well. The expansion could rectify this; maybe we get to see Denerim, or a much larger section of Val Royeaux, maybe one or two Marcher cities. But this expansion would be an opportunity to do cities right, even if it’s only one super detailed city, as long as it’s alive and bursting with activity and culture, I think everyone would be satisfied.

 

Additionally an expansion could add more companion content to DA:I. Whilst I’ve always cared deeply about all DA companions, and especially romances, I think a lot of that comes from headcannoning stories with them. They have the detailed deep personalities, but we just don’t get enough time with them, in fact I think they have more of the little details about them that make them really come alive revealed in party banter with each other, (e.g. Varric acting indifferent to things that don’t affect him, but then you realise he cares deeply about your companions like paying to keep Merrill and Anders safe in DA:2)  not in conversation with you. They only seem to confide in BIG stuff with you, frankly for no real reason; you don’t have the smaller interactions that friendships are formed from. I’m not asking for a friendship sim DLC, but an expansion could help rectify the lack of less meaningful interactions, more laid back friend stuff like shooting bottles with Garrus in ME3, or anything in the Citadel DLC. The romances especially I’ve found to be lacking in content in all DA games. The path seems to be, Be friendly-Flirt-Express an interest in romance- do a companion quest- have sex- the end. An expansion could add additional interactions with a romance, maybe you can take them on a date, maybe you can have conversations about your romance and it’s future, maybe you can just get the option to kiss them, just something to make it feel more like an actual romance and less hollow, have there be something to look forward to after you’ve secured the love scene. If I hadn’t made it clear lol, I think the expansion should incorporate those friendship moments between party members and you that we got in the Citadel DLC for ME3.

 

Whilst we are on the topic of companions, we’ll be needing a companion to make up for the loss of Solas. Presuming we don’t get all new companions, which I would really hate , Scout Harding is the obvious candidate. She’s crazy popular and has an actual reason to be in our party. This would help satisfy the desire in the community for more Harding content, and would let us get to know her even better, plus I think her banter would be amazing  .

In addition Harding would come with her own unique skill tree, allowing a new specialisation for rogues, and bringing new gameplay styles to the game. New ability skill trees like this are an absolute must, and a very strong reason to create a strictly post game expansion! By the time you finish the game you are crazy over levelled. On my current play through after doing all the DLC, I’m almost level 27 and I’ve still got Hissing wastes, Emprise du lion and what pride has wrought to go through, I’ll be something like lvl 30 by the end, but the problem besides Nightmare being laughably easy, is that I have nowhere to put my ability points! I’m just unlocking abilities I won’t use to get at some meh passive to have somewhere to put my points; it really takes the fun out of levelling up. The expansion could solve this by adding new tress like Awakening did, and some more rift abilities would make our Inquisitor feel like a more powerful player too. Give us some super powerful enemies and make us re-evaluate our skill setup to deal with them.

 

 

·         If we are not going to be playing as the Inquisitor in DA4 we really need closure with Solas, especially if romanced

·         Scout Harding can replace our lost companion

·         Set up DA4. End on a cliff-hanger or even a failure for the Inquisition, this will help build hype for DA4

·         Additional companion and romance content

·         New locations. We can see additional areas of Orlais and the Free Marches without having to spend another game on the areas.

·         Cities!

·         New abilities

·         It can be what we all wanted out of DA:I, without old-gen constraints, and now having all the feedback from DA:I e.g. no more fetch quests, greater focus on story

 

 

If you guys have any feedback for what I’ve written, any more reasons you feel an expansion is needed, or any ideas for stuff it could involve and how it could play out I’d love to read your responses.   

[Revas Ghilan]

Dude, all I have to say is "So much YES!"

[Darkly Tranquil]

Are you prepared to pay $30-40 for it? Because the devs have said that expansions like Awakening aren't really economically viable, so for such a thing to be made, they would need to charge a premium price to make it worthwhile. How many people are really prepared to drop almost a much as the price of another game on a DLC? Not that many, I'd say. FWIW, I'm not against the idea, I just highly doubt Bioware would seriously consider doing it.

[Lee80]

I was sort of with you till you started talking about ending on cliffhangers and failure.  I like the ending as it is, if we can't improve on it then why change it to something worse.  In my opinion games should never end on a cliffhanger, because the next game is never guaranteed. 

[lordsaren101]

An expansion would be great. Especially considering how terrible Descent it.

[cdizzle2k3]

An expansion would be great. Especially considering how terrible Descent it.

I wouldn't say the Descent was terrible... It seems that they took feedback that the Frostback Basin was "more of the same" and "too open and empty" and "lacked interesting dialog" so it seems like they took a different approach... A more linear, defined story with more driven dialog... albeit through Valta and Renn rather than through companions(which people were hoping to get more interaction from). It wasn't groundbreaking, but IMO, it wasn't completely terrible. 

[ME3EndingH8er]

Are you prepared to pay $30-40 for it? Because the devs have said that expansions like Awakening aren't really economically viable, so for such a thing to be made, they would need to charge a premium price to make it worthwhile. How many people are really prepared to drop almost a much as the price of another game on a DLC? Not that many, I'd say. FWIW, I'm not against the idea, I just highly doubt Bioware would seriously consider doing it.

I would absolutely pay for that, as long as it was good that is 

 

 

I was sort of with you till you started talking about ending on cliffhangers and failure.  I like the ending as it is, if we can't improve on it then why change it to something worse.  In my opinion games should never end on a cliffhanger, because the next game is never guaranteed. 

What i meant was that the expansion could end on a down note, not change Inquisitions ending 
E.g. say the expansion focuses on the start of the Qunari invasion and some Solas stuff, we don't repel the invasion by the end, we may win a minor victory, but overall the qunari are winning and conquering Thedas, this would then lead into the main plot for DA4.

And i agree in MOST cases games shouldn't end on cliffhangers, but when you can be relatively sure you will get a sequel, as we are in DA's case, cliffhanger endings can be awesome. Just look at ME2 and how that scene of the reapers approaching made you feel,
I was never more hyped for a game in my life than ME3!

[kaidanluv]

Whether in an expansion or DA4, I definitely feel like there's more to the Inquisitor's story to explore that can't be satisfactorily wrapped up in small DLCs. And I'd certainly welcome more companion/advisor interactions in any future add-ons, since I feel that's what's been lacking from current DLCs.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I would absolutely pay for that, as long as it was good that is 

But would other people? The general vibe I get from reading a lot of game forums is that gamers don't really like expensive DLC. $15 seems to be about the most people are comfortable with paying.

[cdizzle2k3]

But would other people? The general vibe I get from reading a lot of game forums is that gamers don't really like expensive DLC. $15 seems to be about the most people are comfortable with paying.

Tell that to the Destiny forum. Their Taken King DLC is $40! Also, Batman Arkham Knight season pass is $40. The key is, you have to justify your pricing. If they release DLC that's just slightly longer/better than Hakkon/Descent and charge double, of course people will be up in arms. But if they actually put a substantial amount of content/updates, people will still be up in arms about the price point initially... but if the content justifies the price, the uproar will subside

[kaidanluv]

Tell that to the Destiny forum. Their Taken King DLC is $40! Also, Batman Arkham Knight season pass is $40. The key is, you have to justify your pricing. If they release DLC that's just slightly longer/better than Hakkon/Descent and charge double, of course people will be up in arms. But if they actually put a substantial amount of content/updates, people will still be up in arms about the price point initially... but if the content justifies the price, the uproar will subside

This. Being a big Destiny player, I've already pre-ordered Taken King at that price because given the amount of new content we're getting for it, it seems justified to me. I bought Awakening when it came out and I'd do the same for any full DA:I expansion. 

[cdizzle2k3]

This. Being a big Destiny player, I've already pre-ordered Taken King at that price because given the amount of new content we're getting for it, it seems justified to me. I bought Awakening when it came out and I'd do the same for any full DA:I expansion. 

 

Exactly. There was a ton of outrage at that price. I played my fair share of Destiny, but I personally am going to wait until after the expansion's release so I can be sure of the exact content before I fork up that money, since that game has a reputation for recycling content to death... but that's a discussion for another topic lol.  

 

But yeah, if a DA DLC had a substantial amount of content in a DLC that justified a premium price, I'd be willing to pay for it. I'm sure other series fans would too... some would just take more convincing than others... The key here is that as long as they can justify the price with content worth paying for. I realize an expansion is unlikely though, since it's been pointed out that they're not looking into making another "Awakening" sized DLC.

[Revas Ghilan]

But would other people? The general vibe I get from reading a lot of game forums is that gamers don't really like expensive DLC. $15 seems to be about the most people are comfortable with paying.

I think people don't like paying $15 for only one new area to explore. I'd gladly pay $40 for the second half of the Inquisition Main Story, especially if it covers all the stuff this fella suggested and then some. Not getting my hopes up, but I'd love to finish this story before moving on to the next one. The Inquisitor can't be finished yet, there's no way. There's too much that can and should be done before moving on to 4.

[coldflame]

But would other people? The general vibe I get from reading a lot of game forums is that gamers don't really like expensive DLC. $15 seems to be about the most people are comfortable with paying.

 

To be honest, with the current quality shown by the two released DA:I SP DLCs, i would say even $15 is too much.

[ME3EndingH8er]

If they announced a proper expansion sized DLC, and marketed it properly so fans who don't religiously keep up with DA news knew, then i think it would sell at least half as well as Inquisition, which apparently was the best launch in bioware history so i think selling even half as well would be profitable. 
Though idk how well awakening sold outside of the more hardcore DA fans, so that may be a factor in whether they chose to do an expansion for DA:I

[Bryan Johnson]

If they announced a proper expansion sized DLC, and marketed it properly so fans who don't religiously keep up with DA news knew, then i think it would sell at least half as well as Inquisition, which apparently was the best launch in bioware history so i think selling even half as well would be profitable. 
Though idk how well awakening sold outside of the more hardcore DA fans, so that may be a factor in whether they chose to do an expansion for DA:I

I think you are grossly over-estimating the market. If you look at trophy percentages on PS4 only 23.4% of people completed the game, and only 51.9% of people even made it to skyhold. Heck only 90.2% of people made it out of prolog. I believe that only counts people who have booted the game at least once, so if you look at what valve stated last year that 37% of games are never booted (lets say for argument sake it is only 5% on PS4). Already you are down to 49% of people who bought the game made it to skyhold. Plus then consider how many of those people are adverse to DLC/Expansions as a whole. 

 

For arguments sake I am going to take a completely unrealistic value and say a revenue of 1million and a marketing budget of 300k and a development budget of 400k

 

So now we take that 49% and say only 50% would actually buy it (which is an astronomical attach rate nearly a year after launch). You have 25% of your total user base, and given people want a 30$ price point you are now looking at a potential revenue of 1/8th of your original game sale. Given the example above (this would mean your revenue would be 125k)

 

Marketing is not cheaper because it is a dlc, a 30 second ad costs the same amount of money, so lets say your marketing budget is 1/4 of the original game. Given the example above then this would be 75k. 

 

This now means your development has to be 1/8th (because only 50k left (125k-75k)) the original cost of the game (in order to break even), and that includes no profit like you had in the first example.

[ME3EndingH8er]

I think you are grossly over-estimating the market. If you look at trophy percentages on PS4 only 23.4% of people completed the game, and only 51.9% of people even made it to skyhold. Heck only 90.2% of people made it out of prolog. I believe that only counts people who have booted the game at least once, so if you look at what valve stated last year that 37% of games are never booted (lets say for argument sake it is only 5% on PS4). Already you are down to 49% of people who bought the game made it to skyhold. Plus then consider how many of those people are adverse to DLC/Expansions as a whole. 

 

For arguments sake I am going to take a completely unrealistic value and say a revenue of 1million and a marketing budget of 300k and a development budget of 400k

 

So now we take that 49% and say only 50% would actually buy it (which is an astronomical attach rate nearly a year after launch). You have 25% of your total user base, and given people want a 30$ price point you are now looking at a potential revenue of 1/8th of your original game sale. Given the example above (this would mean your revenue would be 125k)

 

Marketing is not cheaper because it is a dlc, a 30 second ad costs the same amount of money, so lets say your marketing budget is 1/4 of the original game. Given the example above then this would be 75k. 

 

This now means your development has to be 1/8th the original cost of the game (in order to break even), and that includes no profit like you had in the first example.

Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn, i had no idea about any of that, guess it was just wishful thinking on my part lol. 
I'm shocked at how much that would cost  thanks for informing me though, gives a new perspective on how difficult and risky it must be to get out even one small DLC
Though for future reference, in regard to DA4, if expansions are really not economically viable, then personally i'd rather have one story/character expanding expansion than 3 small unrelated DLC's   
 

[Hiigo]

We should use our collective hive mind to demand expansions instead small downloadable content.

[Saphiron123]

I don't need witcher sized expansions (though, don't get me wrong i'm super excited and I hope they do very well with them)... but we need some story content. Side quests with narratives and actual stories, Cinematic conversations, I want to care about dragon age again.

I have faith bioware can offer an experience with the impact of origins, I just don't know why they're going in the opposite direction into single player MMO territory.

[ME3EndingH8er]

Hoping they learned from all the negative feedback about the MMO style quests for DA4, and then maybe all the mediocre feedback to the 2 DLC's they've released so far.

If they don't do an expansion for DA:I i really hope we get to play as the Inquisitor in DA4, the Solasmance is to good to be rapped up Witch Hunt style. I know they've said they want a new protagonist each game, but i'd actually be pretty happy if we got to play as our current 3 protagonists for the next 3 games (i read somewhere they planned 6). Inquisitor for the next game so we can resolve their story properly, then Hawke, or maybe a new one for that game ( i really want my Qunari rouge....), and then wrap the series up as it began, by playing as The Warden again in the final game 

[Helbinor]

I think you are grossly over-estimating the market. If you look at trophy percentages on PS4 only 23.4% of people completed the game, and only 51.9% of people even made it to skyhold. Heck only 90.2% of people made it out of prolog. I believe that only counts people who have booted the game at least once, so if you look at what valve stated last year that 37% of games are never booted (lets say for argument sake it is only 5% on PS4). Already you are down to 49% of people who bought the game made it to skyhold. Plus then consider how many of those people are adverse to DLC/Expansions as a whole. 

 

For arguments sake I am going to take a completely unrealistic value and say a revenue of 1million and a marketing budget of 300k and a development budget of 400k

 

So now we take that 49% and say only 50% would actually buy it (which is an astronomical attach rate nearly a year after launch). You have 25% of your total user base, and given people want a 30$ price point you are now looking at a potential revenue of 1/8th of your original game sale. Given the example above (this would mean your revenue would be 125k)

 

Marketing is not cheaper because it is a dlc, a 30 second ad costs the same amount of money, so lets say your marketing budget is 1/4 of the original game. Given the example above then this would be 75k. 

 

This now means your development has to be 1/8th the original cost of the game (in order to break even), and that includes no profit like you had in the first example.

 

I'm guessing this post is informed by BioWare's experience with Awakenings, which was an expansion-sized DLC.  How many Dragon Age:Origins players actually beat the game, and would thus be willing to shell out for end-game content?

 

Well, I did.    And I'm guessing lots of other people here did as well.  But the super-fans willing to register and post on Bioware's forums maaaay not be representative of the gamer market as a whole.

[Semyaza82]

A sensible well argued suggestion without crazy vitriol, followed by a very helpful explanation from a Bioware employee on why it isn't possible... then polite responses that actually took in the points he made...

On the up side I'm pretty sure you all a win an internet (one a piece), on the downside this level of civility on the forums is probably one of the signs of the end times  

 

(Seriously though, big thanks to Bryan - I really didn't know what the realities of making an expansion were)

[Bryan Johnson]

I'm guessing this post is informed by BioWare's experience with Awakenings, which was an expansion-sized DLC.  How many Dragon Age:Origins players actually beat the game, and would thus be willing to shell out for end-game content?

 

Well, I did.    And I'm guessing lots of other people here did as well.  But the super-fans willing to register and post on Bioware's forums maaaay not be representative of the gamer market as a whole.

Nope my explanation had nothing to do with Awakenings (this was before my time) and also outside of knowledge of how it did. All I did was take information that is publically available (ie trophy percentages, and article from Valve) and then break down the potential cost of it. I did not have any extra information and really anyone could have made the same point, just because of the tag my opinion seems to carry more weight.