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The tale of Tyrdda Bright-Axe, Explained (comment, discuss, love it or hate it ;P)


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#26
Heimdall

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It's possible something like that happened.
When you meet the OGB as an elf he asks you "Why did you choose to look like that?"...Well err...
It makes more sense if you think about the fact elves were shapeshifters .In DAO , Morrigan and a Dalish can talk about this , because some Dalish knows about shapeshifting...Morrigan points out it's strange.
And who can "shapeshift " too , spirits...like the spirit of faith taking the form of Divine Justinia.
 
The only flaw in the theory is...to shapeshift you need to study a soul , so you need an example.

Spirits feed off of the emotions of living being. Without any living beings, it is impossible for them to even have the power to become human like Cole. No, spirits did not "evolve" into Elves. No living beings means no emotions/ideas, means no spirits.

Okay, what if that's what the elven gods were? A lot of theories have the elven gods as spirits or elven mages, but what if it's the other way around? What if the elven people came into being from spirits following, worshipping and attempting to mimic the elven gods? Puts a whole new perspective on Solas' attitude toward spirits.

On a related note, the OGB said something about the elven inquisitor having "blood that isn't blood" which is largely what I'm basing this idea on.

#27
Reznore57

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Okay, what if that's what the elven gods were? A lot of theories have the elven gods as spirits or elven mages, but what if it's the other way around? What if the elven people came into being from spirits following, worshipping and attempting to mimic the elven gods? Puts a whole new perspective on Solas' attitude toward spirits.

On a related note, the OGB said something about the elven inquisitor having "blood that isn't blood" which is largely what I'm basing this idea on.

 

Well as I said it's possible...

Afterall if you believe Solas , without the veil , spirits could interact with Thedas freely.

There are talk of a time before the veil , so...

Right now they are completly dependant on mortals living in Thedas , they are their link to the outside world .

 

But yeah Cole , even if in the first place he  needed a blueprint , after a while out of the fade he can become his own person .


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#28
PapaCharlie9

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On the whole, I think this is a good interpretation. It definitely clarified some items I was confused about. And I agree that the leaf-eared lover is most likely Mythal.

I do have some nitpicks, though.
 
Wise in wisdom, calm in counsel, great in gifts her grateful guests, (This is a resume of the whole Saga, Dwarves are the grateful guests)

The guests aren't necessarily or exclusively Dwarves. We know that 'guesting' is a tribal custom of the Avvar, from JoH, so this could be a much more general statement that Tyrdda was a generous gift giver to guests.
 
Sacrificed she did to spirits, took their teachings, followed quests. (This is a resume of the whole Saga, her elf-eared lover is the spirit that taught her, which I believe is Mythal)

But 'spirits' is plural. Not only Mythal, then.
  
Warriors great and great in number, sun-kissed swords to fight his wars, (His followers were formidable and also of great number, they fought during the daylight without resorting to subterfuge, given their numbers and leaders' pride).

'sun-kissed' doesn't necessarily mean they fought in daylight. I think it is meant to suggest a quality of the swords themselves. Probably not as literal as a fire rune, could just mean they were well made of shiny metal, not out of bone or dull metals. This one is anyone's guess, though.
 
Drake-scaled shirts their bodies covered, heart-wine stained the salty shores. (They moved closer to the northern sea, still living in debauchery, the way Thelm wanted them to stay).

I read 'heart-wine' as blood, as in, the blood of their enemies stained the shore.
 
Whispered words to drive the droves to golden city where he dreamed. (It would seem Thelm was also a mage and potentially was a dreamer. The whispers he heard seem to be from the Old Gods who wanted him to breach the Golden City from the fade).

As you mentioned, the 'golden city' could have a double meaning. The actual Golden City, which means 'cross the Waking' is 'cross the Veil'. Or some golden city in the north, across the Waking Sea. I lean towards the more mundane interpretation, unless the date of this tale is established as before the defilment of the Golden City and the First Blight.
 
Counseled quick in dreams alone, Voices wiser man ignores, (It would seem other beings tried to dissuade these actions, though Thelm wouldn't listen).

I read 'Voices wiser man ignores' as saying, Thelm heeded the lies of spirits/demons, where wiser dreamers would have ignored them.
  
Tribes with blades by farming blunted chased and fought, their parting pains. (Her tribesman were battered and beaten from all they faced, warring and farming, running and fighting).

I read this as the settled tribes chasing Tyrrda's war-like tribe out of the settled areas. A separation that gave both sides pain.
 
Dwarven hearts were sundered, simple, still with honor. Thus she bade: ("hearts sundered" is what influences my statement from the above line. This could either mean that Mythal's words touched the Dwarves on an emotional level or that she somehow broke their connection to the Titan that was controlling them. the "simple, still with honor" part is what makes me suspicious. Was this a reference to how the Dwarves behaved when linked with Titans? Much like the Elvhen writing describes "pillars of the earth" and "their workers", witless and soulless.

I read 'hearts were sundered' as referring to a great tragedy in the Dwarve's own history, so have pity on them. This aligns with your interpretation of Mythal's advice in the next verse.
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#29
Yaroub

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3) Do we know for sure that humans have the dominant gene? Or is this based on Kieran existence?

 

Yeah it's confirmed and over Elves too, but i don't know about Qunari, and i don't think humans,elves or dwarves can have kids with them because of their draconic blood.

 

Could you imagine what kind of horror that kid would be? i don't.



#30
Master Warder Z_

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Cow blood, not dragon

#31
FrankWisdom

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On the whole, I think this is a good interpretation. It definitely clarified some items I was confused about. And I agree that the leaf-eared lover is most likely Mythal.

I do have some nitpicks, though.
 
Wise in wisdom, calm in counsel, great in gifts her grateful guests, (This is a resume of the whole Saga, Dwarves are the grateful guests)

The guests aren't necessarily or exclusively Dwarves. We know that 'guesting' is a tribal custom of the Avvar, from JoH, so this could be a much more general statement that Tyrdda was a generous gift giver to guests.
 
Sacrificed she did to spirits, took their teachings, followed quests. (This is a resume of the whole Saga, her elf-eared lover is the spirit that taught her, which I believe is Mythal)

But 'spirits' is plural. Not only Mythal, then.
  
Warriors great and great in number, sun-kissed swords to fight his wars, (His followers were formidable and also of great number, they fought during the daylight without resorting to subterfuge, given their numbers and leaders' pride).

'sun-kissed' doesn't necessarily mean they fought in daylight. I think it is meant to suggest a quality of the swords themselves. Probably not as literal as a fire rune, could just mean they were well made of shiny metal, not out of bone or dull metals. This one is anyone's guess, though.
 
Drake-scaled shirts their bodies covered, heart-wine stained the salty shores. (They moved closer to the northern sea, still living in debauchery, the way Thelm wanted them to stay).

I read 'heart-wine' as blood, as in, the blood of their enemies stained the shore.
 
Whispered words to drive the droves to golden city where he dreamed. (It would seem Thelm was also a mage and potentially was a dreamer. The whispers he heard seem to be from the Old Gods who wanted him to breach the Golden City from the fade).

As you mentioned, the 'golden city' could have a double meaning. The actual Golden City, which means 'cross the Waking' is 'cross the Veil'. Or some golden city in the north, across the Waking Sea. I lean towards the more mundane interpretation, unless the date of this tale is established as before the defilment of the Golden City and the First Blight.
 
Counseled quick in dreams alone, Voices wiser man ignores, (It would seem other beings tried to dissuade these actions, though Thelm wouldn't listen).

I read 'Voices wiser man ignores' as saying, Thelm heeded the lies of spirits/demons, where wiser dreamers would have ignored them.
  
Tribes with blades by farming blunted chased and fought, their parting pains. (Her tribesman were battered and beaten from all they faced, warring and farming, running and fighting).

I read this as the settled tribes chasing Tyrrda's war-like tribe out of the settled areas. A separation that gave both sides pain.
 
Dwarven hearts were sundered, simple, still with honor. Thus she bade: ("hearts sundered" is what influences my statement from the above line. This could either mean that Mythal's words touched the Dwarves on an emotional level or that she somehow broke their connection to the Titan that was controlling them. the "simple, still with honor" part is what makes me suspicious. Was this a reference to how the Dwarves behaved when linked with Titans? Much like the Elvhen writing describes "pillars of the earth" and "their workers", witless and soulless.

I read 'hearts were sundered' as referring to a great tragedy in the Dwarve's own history, so have pity on them. This aligns with your interpretation of Mythal's advice in the next verse.

I've been playing JoH actually, like, this week. So honestly, I agree with everything you added. A lot of the verses can be interpreted with double entendre.

 

Wise in wisdom, calm in counsel, great in gifts her grateful guests, Also agree with your interpretation. After playing the quest it was an obvious reference to their customs as well as Trydda's leadership skills and personality.

 

Sacrificed she did to spirits, took their teachings, followed quests. This is a reference to all spirits, not just Mythal, as is customary with the Avvar for example, like you pointed out.

 

Warriors great and great in number, sun-kissed swords to fight his wars, I agree with your interpretation, but when I say daylight, it's really to emphasize their pride and glory basically, but I agree it also goes hand in hand with great warriors and great number, meaning formidable, including the weapons the wielded.

 

Drake-scaled shirts their bodies covered, heart-wine stained the salty shores. Yes, it could also be a very poetic way to describe both their trail of bloodshed and their drinking.

 

Whispered words to drive the droves to golden city where he dreamed. Agreed, I'm also unclear on the timeline.

 

Counseled quick in dreams alone, Voices wiser man ignores, yep you're right on that one. I just read it and thought the same thing. I'm not sure why I got it the other way around Granted I wrote this very late at night.

 

Tribes with blades by farming blunted chased and fought, their parting pains. Again, I reread this and got the same thing as you did, another poster also pointed it out. I'll edit it soon, haven't taken the time yet.

 

Dwarven hearts were sundered, simple, still with honor. Thus she bade: This could be referencing the past, again it depends on the timeframe. It could go either way given the context however, so I'll leave it as is.

 

Other than that though, great input. I agree pretty much with everything you said and I'll edit in a moment. Thanks for posting and sharing your thoughts.



#32
madrar

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If I misinterpreted your meaning about Mythal being The Lady in The Skies than I apologize. Apart from Ghilan'nain having once been a mortal Elvhen woman and having said to be Andruil's lover, I don't see her fitting any other facet of the LoTS, especially given she is the mother of all Halla, an earthbound animal, hardly a fitting representation of a goddess who is supposed to rule the skies (and the dead). Also I don't see Andruil being represented as Belenas, sacred peak of Korth the Mountain-Father. I feel like you're looking way to closely at the picture without considering the whole.

 

No worries, you're absolutely free to disagree.  I've already presented the evidence that I think links Ghil and her "winged monsters" to both the Lady and Andruil/Korth, so if that's not compelling, there's not much more to chew over.   A small point, though: I didn't mean to imply Andruil was represented as Belenas itself.  The peak was Korth's seat of power, levelled (in theory) when Korth/dark!Andruil fell to Nathramar/Mythal.  There's an old post on the Solas thread somewhere that gets a bit deeper into the potential link between members of the Pantheon and their respective "sacred peaks", the volcanic rise and fall of which seems linked to the fate of their linked God and mortal bloodline, but that's veering a bit off-topic.  

 

 

For example. If you want to use this Avvar Myth as an inspired tale from another legend how about this one:

 

Beast no blade could break came roaring, mountains slipped their winter gown,

 

Tyrdda shouts to leaf-eared lover, "You I chose above a crown!"

 Lightning split the spitting rains, Sundered over prideful heights, 

Dragon fell in rubble down, Crashed and crushed in earth's mad shaking.

 

"But it was destroyed in the battle between Korth and the serpent Nathramar, leaving only a vast crater behind."

 

These verses seem to fit more with what happened in the "Codex entry: Lake Calenhad" then it does with the battle between Mythal and Andruil.

 

No argument there.  There's certainly some interpretive wiggle room in drawing parallels between myths.   I'm not sure this particular example works well though, since it implies the dragon was defeated and thus Korth was the "victor".  It's possible, since we're ignoring the Dalish version, but seems a less comfortable fit given that the symbol of Korth's domain was utterly leveled in the conflict and not rebuilt.  

 

<snip>

 

Anyways that's just the way I see it. I Enjoy theorizing and exploring lore but I think we all need to approach it from an objective stance, balancing what fits and what doesn't while keeping an open mind but most importantly considering the context. That's why I like discussing, sharing and debating. When people point out legitimate flaws in my theories, or bring new information from their own that either adds to or changes the concept entirely we can keep perspective all the while constantly improving on our puzzles until the picture is framed and set.

 

Nothing I say by the way is meant as an insult or said in a condescending tone. I enjoy reading your theories. It's just that sometimes it feels far-removed from the subject matter the farther down the rabbit hole you go.

 

No offense taken!  I honestly appreciate the thought in your response.  There's room for both reasonable theorists and Helsdim-level nutjobs here (*ignores the pointed cough in her direction* ) and between the two, I have faith we'll eventually piece together the big picture.  

 

That said, (and don't feel obligated to respond if you'd rather not, since we're dangerously off-topic at this point) I'd be really interested in your interpretation of the following art:

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler


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#33
FrankWisdom

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No worries, you're absolutely free to disagree.  I've already presented the evidence that I think links Ghil and her "winged monsters" to both the Lady and Andruil/Korth, so if that's not compelling, there's not much more to chew over.   A small point, though: I didn't mean to imply Andruil was represented as Belenas itself.  The peak was Korth's seat of power, levelled (in theory) when Korth/dark!Andruil fell to Nathramar/Mythal.  There's an old post on the Solas thread somewhere that gets a bit deeper into the potential link between members of the Pantheon and their respective "sacred peaks", the volcanic rise and fall of which seems linked to the fate of their linked God and mortal bloodline, but that's veering a bit off-topic.  

 

 

No argument there.  There's certainly some interpretive wiggle room in drawing parallels between myths.   I'm not sure this particular example works well though, since it implies the dragon was defeated and thus Korth was the "victor".  It's possible, since we're ignoring the Dalish version, but seems a less comfortable fit given that the symbol of Korth's domain was utterly leveled in the conflict and not rebuilt.  

 
 

 

No offense taken!  I honestly appreciate the thought in your response.  There's room for both reasonable theorists and Helsdim-level nutjobs here (*ignores the pointed cough in her direction* ) and between the two, I have faith we'll eventually piece together the big picture.  

 

That said, (and don't feel obligated to respond if you'd rather not, since we're dangerously off-topic at this point) I'd be really interested in your interpretation of the following art:

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'm glad to hear it! No worries, I also sometimes veer in the "off, off Broadway musical" theories.

 

They can be compelling... Like chocolate, but after a while you turn around in the mirror, overweight, middle-aged with a strange chocolate smeared face staring back at you :blink: and  say, maybe... I ate too much chocolate <_<

 

Anyways... Sure I don't mind giving you my take on them.

 

What I see on the first picture is Elvhen slaves, their Vallaslin is pretty prominent but what's interesting is each Vellaslin is different, suggesting they are all followers of a different Elvhen god (rather than being a variation of the same Vallaslin), the struggle of all as it were. They seem to be walking in the shadow of an Elvhen god, Ghilan'ain, perhaps. Blood seems to be sapped from them; blood magic? The drawing shows her (it) as very wide to emcompass all elvhen people, as if she is complacent, feeding off of their misery, their labor. The depiction of the halla also makes me think of a pregnant mother. The darkness is also quite striking. It has me wonder when exactly this was drawn. In Tevinter slaves developed a stylized language that only they could share, using symbols and other means to communicate. I wonder if this was done similarly, near the fall of Arlathan, or if this was more of a graffiti during the rebellion.

 

The second picture similarly depicts Elvhen slaves, but surprisingly, their heads and chests are empty, as if to indicate they have been stripped of their rights to think and to feel. It reminds me of the Old Elvhen writing when talking about the "Pillars of the Earth" (Titans) and their workers (Dwarves) "witless and soulless". For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.

 

Also the first Elf has a Red Orb in his head where all others are empty. This would seem to imply he "leads" them, rather than simply being first in line. Maybe to imply progressive but total domination of will or just the progressive nature of their affliction. I understand why you would have implied red lyrium to have been present in the time of Arlathan or used before. This could be taken as them being enslaved by a Titan, but I'm not sure that's the case. I still have a hard time believe a Titan could be blighted, given the effect they have on the Darkspawn. The only way this could have happened was if someone who wasn't infected brought the taint in somehow, perhaps Dwarves who had recently separated from the hivemind, maybe supplied by "The Forgotten Ones" in order to us against the Elvhen Pantehon. Know one talks about "The Forgotten Ones" during the time of Arlathan. They must have been trying to usurp power for a long time, especially given Geldauran's claim. This might also be relating to them. The Black and Red could also be a nod towards the blight and red lyrium. As seen throughout the pictures.

 

It could also be a sun they are walking under, Elgar'nan, perhaps. Again we have the red paint. This could be a depiction of scorching, intense heat as their backs are burned by Elgar'nan's gaze, but it seems like more than that. It definitely has the appearance of blood as the first painting does. Perhaps a depiction of Elgar'nan punishing the Elvhen for rebelling, or trying to rebel. The circle might also represent an Elvhen orb and could be the cause of the Elvhen predicament. Maybe this is what took their "hearts and minds". the fact that their are two circles is also interesting.

 

The smaller circle could be a representation of Mythal as the moon, trying to protect the Elvhen people by blocking out the sun Elgar'nan. This is much less likely than my other interpretations given the extreme subtlety and simplicity of the image and lack of significant change in the Elvhen people depicted. Black, red and white seem to be the main theme throughout most pictures (except for the yellow circle in the second picture, which could hold significance).

 

The last picture is the most compelling and the most perplexing. It looks like the Elvhen people are warring with something, under the banner of a... Flying Fish. Ok it's probably a Dragon, it kind of looks like a Chinese Dragon if you observe the head closely. I'm guessing the Elvhen people are warring and not hunting because some of them are depicted as being felled in battle. It is also shown that some are sporting shields. I'm guessing this is happening either during Fen'Harel's rebellion or this is one of the skirmishes/wars that Fen'Harrel referred to being fought by different Elvhen gods from the pantheon. If that is the case it seems the Elvhen are dying for their god rather than fighting with it. "It" is above them, rather than in front, showing supremacy but not leadership, unlike a general taking the front during a war to rally his troops. It also doesn't seem bothered by the slaughtered Elvhen people (at least not enough to protect them in the first place).

 

I find the ethereal effects used on some of the Harts interesting, either depicting death or maybe showcasing a time before the veil, where the effects of The Fade are being applied here when something dies, it almost seems like a spirit, though this could just be an artists way of detailing the fall or even a stylistic touch to demonstrate numbers, trying to show that there were many Elvhen people involved in the war. The white lines around the dragon seem to be an effect to visually demonstrate motion and flight, presumably the wind brushing against it. Anyways that's all I have time for.

 

Maybe the grim red and black themes are to showcase "The Forgotten Ones" have finally "struck in mastery". Again, we don't have the context yet nor the identity of the people that drew these.

 

I'm sure you've already discussed these profoundly so lay it on me. I'm curious to hear what you have to say. I'll get my tinfoil hat just in case ;)


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#34
Thermopylae

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I quite like the art style, it evokes paleolithic rock and cave art, but interpreted to represent the elves/ fade in the Dragon Age setting. I don't think I could provide a better analysis than mardar. When I first saw it in game I went up close and really looked at it to see what it was saying. To me it conveys that not everything about the elves was jolly spring time and sweet cake before the humans. Some of those images look downright sinister in my humble opinion.



#35
Shari'El

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3rd drawing? Definitely a fish.

 

J/k

 

I got many screenshots documenting drawings such as these on my PS4, but since it's on my PS4 and I'm too lazy to copy them I'll just say that the area around Glenmorgan Mine and the cave inside are filled with interesting Elvhen art.

Killing the Wyvern in the cave drops the Fade Knocker which makes me think of Solas, only because of its' name and the fact 

Spoiler

he says the veil is thin there, he seems to know the place, and the fact he is a very accomplished artist made me think he drew some of those things himself.

 

The art of Thedas is very interesting, it can lead to a lot of speculations.

 

(Spoilers because the first picture is taken close to the end of the game)

Spoiler

 

Of course everything can be a recycled asset, like people think this is: (end game spoilers)

Spoiler

But I refuse to believe in such heresy.



#36
madrar

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I'm glad to hear it! No worries, I also sometimes veer in the "off, off Broadway musical" theories.

 

They can be compelling... Like chocolate, but after a while you turn around in the mirror, overweight, middle-aged with a strange chocolate smeared face staring back at you :blink: and  say, maybe... I ate too much chocolate <_<

 

Anyways... Sure I don't mind giving you my take on them.

 

<snip>

 

I'm sure you've already discussed these profoundly so lay it on me. I'm curious to hear what you have to say. I'll get my tinfoil hat just in case ;)

 

BAH.   I was hoping to lure you down the rabbit hole, but you dodged the red lyrium bait.  

 

Solid analysis, and I agree on the general timing.  Though the style is more primitive than other elvhen art we find, I think we can date those to the post-Arlathan era, as a few are found on buildings that would have been concurrent with Halamshiral.  They are, I think, an attempt to encode and preserve a historic record during a time when maintaining a traditional written history wasn't possible.

 

I don't want to whip out the heavy tinfoil here (because most of this has been chewed over in bits and pieces elsewhere and we're way off topic) but my core hunch is that the full set describes events that led to the civil war / fall of Arlathan.  To me, the pattern on the head of the dragon figure also seems to hint at vallaslin, suggesting this codex might be describing the judgement of a random prisoner of war.  (Mythal's role changes the timing a bit, though- more likely a captive taken during the previous failed rebellion.) 

 

Anyway!   Nudging you back toward rabbit hole madness would involve getting into what you think the Titans truly are, and what relationship (if any) you believe they have with the Pantheon, so I'm just going to leave it there.   ^w^   Interesting thoughts, and much appreciated! 


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#37
Caddius

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If it's any aid to the discussion, the Saga describes the break-away of the Avvar from the Alamarri. This happened 5785 years after Arlathan was founded. This puts it a few centuries before the Neromenian Kingdoms were formed, over 600 years before the founding of the Imperium. However, it's a few centuries after the Old Gods started to teach the Neromenian Dreaming and magic.The official date of Arlathan's destruction is put at 6625 post Arlathan. So it seems likely enough that the Creators and Forgotten Ones are still active at this point, along with the Old Gods.

 

I'm with Papa Charlie on the verses describing Thelm's arming the Alamarri with arms and armor. Fire-enchanted blades and drake-scale armor, by the sounds of it.

 

It would be odd to assault the Golden City in the Fade with an army of mortals. Arlathan, however, would be a juicy target for a barbarian horde spurred on by a Dreamer. And the raven motif does suggest Dirthamen. 


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#38
FrankWisdom

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BAH.   I was hoping to lure you down the rabbit hole, but you dodged the red lyrium bait.  

 

Solid analysis, and I agree on the general timing.  Though the style is more primitive than other elvhen art we find, I think we can date those to the post-Arlathan era, as a few are found on buildings that would have been concurrent with Halamshiral.  They are, I think, an attempt to encode and preserve a historic record during a time when maintaining a traditional written history wasn't possible.

 

I don't want to whip out the heavy tinfoil here (because most of this has been chewed over in bits and pieces elsewhere and we're way off topic) but my core hunch is that the full set describes events that led to the civil war / fall of Arlathan.  To me, the pattern on the head of the dragon figure also seems to hint at vallaslin, suggesting this codex might be describing the judgement of a random prisoner of war.  (Mythal's role changes the timing a bit, though- more likely a captive taken during the previous failed rebellion.) 

 

Anyway!   Nudging you back toward rabbit hole madness would involve getting into what you think the Titans truly are, and what relationship (if any) you believe they have with the Pantheon, so I'm just going to leave it there.   ^w^   Interesting thoughts, and much appreciated! 

 

 

Lol, yeah I kind of saw you coming, after our last discussion. I checked out the links in your post, interesting stuff. I'm not dismissing the red lyrium theory, remember that. Right now however, I'm just reticent to believe it given what's been revealed about the Titans (As I mentioned above, I still have a hard time believe a Titan could be blighted, given the effect they have on the Darkspawn).. Though you saw why I think it could have happened given the right circumstances.

 

I do believe there is a primordial link between the Elvhen pantheon (Dragons) and Titans.

 

"Though the style is more primitive than other elvhen art we find, I think we can date those to the post-Arlathan era, as a few are found on buildings that would have been concurrent with Halamshiral."

 

I agree!

 

I do believe there is a primordial link between the Elvhen pantheon (Dragons) and Titans.

 

The This Codex link you posted could definitely be the event that the third picture depicted. It would be interesting to know who this was referencing.

 

Given Geldauran's claim, I'd have to argue it could possibly be The Forgotten Ones. Perhaps some of them weren't as evil as The Elvhen people would suggest, given what we know of The Elvhen Pantheon. Propaganda blind faith, "white washing" and slander might have been running rampant in Ancient Arlathan (Pre-Rebellion). Given Geldauran's views, it wouldn't be surprising to have stricken their names from history. This might conflict with my theory however, given my theories on "The Forgotten Ones", the blight and the Old Gods, but a lot could explain their fall if they were "freedom fighters" of some kind. I'm frustrated that we didn't hear SolaFen reference them at all throughout the game. I'd have been satisfied with a breadcrumb...

 

As for your disappointment in my not taking the bate about red lyrium. Blood magic could easily have been what was depicted as we know "blood magic can be used to find the sleeping minds of others. Therein lies the heart of one of blood magic's most potent and dangerous abilities: to influence, and even take control of, the actions of other beings". The alternative is as, if not, more compelling for the time being, this is one of the stronger counterarguments I could provide. The fact that SolaFen is knowledgeable about Blood Magic yet is not familiar with its use "in practice" is also interesting to me.

 

I'm not sure if you have already, but if you want check out my thread, I have a lot of theories written down that you might find interesting. I'd appreciate your take on it as well. I like a lot of your theories, they make me contemplate my own in depth. :)

 

Here's the link: http://forum.bioware...es-discussions/

 

There are a lot of things that I want to add when I get the time, but for now it'll have to do. It might not be fully up to date with what I've learned and reevaluated but it should be close enough.