17 réponses à ce sujet

[lodnooband]

I was under the assumption that armor piercing ammo, and HVB's bonuses of ignoring armored defense gave bonus damage to armored targets.  Someone told me that this is not the case, can someone explain to me in detail what it does?  If equipping these bonuses does absolutely no extra damage compared to not equipping anything that ignores armor defense what's the point of using it?  Any help would be great, thanks.  

[Salarian Master Race]

something about armor reduces damage per shot by 50 and each % of armor bypass reduces that penalty by 0.5 or so so 100% armor bypass would negate the full 50 point penalty and obviously slower high damage weapons like sniper rifles dont suffer this as much as low damage high rate of fire weapons like smgs where 50 point minus per shot is like shooting peas or some junk

 

i think stacking penalties aka diminishing returns apply for example if you have 50% from Source A and 50% from Source B you do not have 100% you have 75% because after the first 50% you are left with 50% which is now the new 100% and 50% of that 50 is 25 and 50+25=75 so 75% in total

 

but i'm not certain of any of this just stuff i was told on xbox so it might be hogwash all i know is i shoot heads and they explode hope that helps

[NuclearTech76]

Armor on higher levels has a mitigation property that reduces damage per bullet by a flat amount. I can't remember the specific value but it ends up being really high damage loss on high ROF, low damage per shot weapons, and pretty much nothing on high damage per shot low ROF weapons. 

[NuclearTech76]

Let me expound with an example:

 

Level X Hurricane with no piercing, armor sundering rounds, etc does 128 damage per shot to health and suffers 50 damage loss versus armor to do a whooping 78 damage per shot. So you're losing about 40% of your damage if you do not have piercing, sundering, or some armor weakening power.

 

Javelin X on the other end of the spectrum does 1546 to health and does 1496 to armor. So you're only losing around 3% damage per shot.  

[Mgamerz]

Lowers by 50, with the min damage you do being 5 (like on gpsmg). That % is taken off that 50 penalty.

[Alfonsedode]

op u shoul dlook at piercing in the library (pinned on the top of the forum page)

[BurningBlood]

Armor piercing mods, high-velocity barrel mods, armor-piercing ammo, and drill ammo all possess two separate properties.

 

Property 1:  Penetration.  They allow you to shoot through cover, walls, or other enemies and hit enemies on the other side.  With the vast majority of guns this comes with a cost; your damage will be reduced by a set % when striking your target (in case you're hitting two enemies with one shot, the first enemy will take full damage and the second one will take reduced damage).  There are six guns which are able to penetrate without any mods or ammo, mods/ammo will extend their penetration distance, and they never suffer from penetration damage reduction: the Javelin, Widow, Black Widow, Crusader, Executioner, and Typhoon.

 

Property 2:  Ignoring armor.  Armored enemies take reduced damage from every pellet/slug; -10 on Bronze, -30 on Silver, and -50 on Gold and Platinum.  The mods and ammo reduce this damage reduction; the assault rifle high-velocity barrel, for example, ignores 90% of an amored target's defenses, so if your gun normally does 100 damage then without the mod an armored enemy on Gold will only take 100-50 = 50 damage per shot but with the mod the same enemy will take 100 - (50*0.1) = 95 damage per shot.  As SMR pointed out this has a much larger impact on guns that fire a lot of low-damage rounds (shotguns/SMGs) and a lower impact on high-damage low rate-of-fire guns (snipers, pistols).  Also note that this property will never, ever cause your weapon do do more damage to an armored target than to an unarmored one, no matter how much you stack it.

 

In addition to the above properties, the AP and Drill rounds also provide a damage bonus vs. all targets.

These three properties operate completely independently of one another.

[The NightMan Cometh]

So much knowledge being thrown around in this thread..Did I just find the Armor Piercing Breakfast Club?  I was sorta curious on ignoring armor's defense exact meaning myself. Doesn't the reegar suffer the worst armor penalty?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:  Great, now the theme song from the breakfast club is banging around inside my head..."hey,hey,hey, hey...rain keeps falling..down"..."dontchu...forget about me..."....It won't stop...thanks 4that people.

[Learn To Love Yourself]

It's like when you a kid, and you always lookin fo ways to burn energy, but you are at school, so you gotsta follow de rulez.  De school is, like, surrounded by walls and fences.  You really want to climb dat fence, but you restrain yoself becuz you a good kid.  That's ignoring defence, dawg.  It's what good kidz do.  

[NuclearTech76]

So much knowledge being thrown around in this thread..Did I just find the Armor Piercing Breakfast Club?  I was sorta curious on ignoring armor's defense exact meaning myself. Doesn't the reegar suffer the worst armor penalty?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit:  Great, now the theme song from the breakfast club is banging around inside my head..."hey,hey,hey, hey...rain keeps falling..down"..."dontchu...forget about me..."....It won't stop...thanks 4that people.

Reegar is pellet based like most shotguns so each pellet is penalized that flat 50 damage, so it ends up being a lot of damage loss, add in it also has a modifier versus armor which penalizes it already. 528 base damage versus health for Reegar X versus 64 damage versus armor, so you're doing maximum 12% of the damage versus armor without some piercing or sundering properties. Add into the fact that the Reegar is so high ROF that most consoles cannot record all the hits anyways, and you have a crap ton less than the theoretical on paper damage of the weapon. 

 

I probably should clean that up some as my math is confusing. Reegar has a 0.5 penalty versus armor anyways, even with completely ignoring armor mitigation you would only get to 50% of the base damage versus health, so if you don't take some form of piercing or sundering you would actually only hit 24% of the possible damage on paper.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Reegar is pellet based like most shotguns so each pellet is penalized that flat 50 damage, so it ends up being a lot of damage loss, add in it also has a modifier versus armor which penalizes it already. 528 base damage versus health for Reegar X versus 64 damage versus armor, so you're doing maximum 12% of the damage versus armor without some piercing or sundering properties. Add into the fact that the Reegar is so high ROF that most consoles cannot record all the hits anyways, and you have a crap ton less than the theoretical on paper damage of the weapon. 

 

I probably should clean that up some as my math is confusing. Reegar has a 0.5 penalty versus armor anyways, even with completely ignoring armor mitigation you would only get to 50% of the base damage versus health, so if you don't take some form of piercing or sundering you would actually only hit 24% of the possible damage on paper.

 

Does it really matter? It still destroys pretty much everything in the game with no effort whatsoever.

[Terminator Force]

Explaining this to pugs in game is always a pain. Why I never bother anymore.

[NuclearTech76]

Does it really matter? It still destroys pretty much everything in the game with no effort whatsoever.

It matters on console if you don't have some form of piercing or sundering. It doesn't do a ****** thing to armor but ****** the enemy off. 

[Xen]

Does it really matter? It still destroys pretty much everything in the game with no effort whatsoever.

On PS3 it does almost nothing to armor without a lot of piercing/weakening. You can dump 5 clips into a gold brute and hardly scratch it because each shot is doing like 50 damage and half of them aren't even registering.

Even if you give it 100% ignoring of armor with mods/ammo, it still won't outdamage a Raider, Hurrdurricane or Piranha with the same unless you use cheese, where it isn't all that far ahead either because it's limited by framerate. It's nothing like the videos I've seen for PC.

It does lol at every other defense and health, though, even making 90% Phantom DR a joke. Still trivializes the game on a lot of kits.

[Excella Gionne]

So much knowledge being thrown around in this thread..Did I just find the Armor Piercing Breakfast Club?  I was sorta curious on ignoring armor's defense exact meaning myself. Doesn't the reegar suffer the worst armor penalty?

 

 

It does. It has a 0.5x multiplier against armor, but that don't stop PC from one clipping a Platinum Atlas. 

[Dunmer of Redoran]

On PS3 it does almost nothing to armor without a lot of piercing/weakening. You can dump 5 clips into a gold brute and hardly scratch it because each shot is doing like 50 damage and half of them aren't even registering.

Even if you give it 100% ignoring of armor with mods/ammo, it still won't outdamage a Raider, Hurrdurricane or Piranha with the same unless you use cheese, where it isn't all that far ahead either because it's limited by framerate. It's nothing like the videos I've seen for PC.

It does lol at every other defense and health, though, even making 90% Phantom DR a joke. Still trivializes the game on a lot of kits.

 

Fascinating. If you guys didn't have a cavalcade of crashes and other horrendous performance issues that break the gameplay itself, I feel like this alone would make the PS3 the superior system to play ME3MP on.

[NuclearTech76]

Fascinating. If you guys didn't have a cavalcade of crashes and other horrendous performance issues that break the gameplay itself, I feel like this alone would make the PS3 the superior system to play ME3MP on.

Makes you wonder what a player like Knocking could do if he weren't playing on a baked potato. 

[capn233]

On platinum and gold, enemy armor (the gold hp bar) applies a penalty of 50 to every shot from hitscan weapons (the penalty is not applied to projectile weapons like GPS, Venom, Scorpion, etc).  If your damage per shot is 55 or lower, then you hit the minimum damage which is 5, as above.  Powers also do not suffer from armor damage reduction.

 

There are two separate effects that can mitigate the damage loss from armor:

 

Armor Piercing - this effect is from weapon mods, and AP or Drill ammo.  It stacks in a normal additive way up to the limit of 100%, at which point it will ignore armor.  This effect only applies to shots from the player.

 

Armor Weakening - effect applied by some powers (eg Warp), and Warp or Cryo Ammo.  It also can stack in a normal additive manner to 100%.  This effect is supposed to be party friendly, in that when applied even teammates will have reduced mitigation from enemy armor for the duration of the effect.

 

The stacking across effects looks like this:

 

Armor = 50*(1 - SumArmorPiercing)*(1 - SumArmorWeakening).

 

So if you had 50% AP and 50% weakening, the enemy armor would be reduced to 12.5 instead of 0.