151 réponses à ce sujet

[SolNebula]

"Empirical Evidence- information acquired by observation or experimentation. This data is recorded and analyzed by scientists and is a central process as part of the scientific method"

Using the release dates of DLC's in two games as "empirical evidence" that all of the gaming industry is moving to an online only DRM model is an utterly hilarious and absurd claim. Where is your data? Do you even have circumstantial evidence, such as statements from industry insiders supporting such a claim? 

It's an absurd claim about the two games in question as well considering that the MP componets used such a small share of the development resources compared to the singleplayer component. Quit trying to use terms of science in your silly little emotion fueled crusade of butthurt against multiplayer.

 

Who cares we don't have quarians in the next game. they could be all dead. Enjoy your MP now.

[prosthetic soul]

"Empirical Evidence-(1) information acquired by observation or experimentation. This data is recorded and analyzed by scientists and is a central process as part of the scientific method"

Using the release dates (while completely ignoring the content) of DLC's in two games as "empirical evidence" that all of the gaming industry is moving to an online only DRM model is an utterly hilarious and absurd claim. Where is your data? Do you even have circumstantial evidence, such as statements from multiple industry insiders supporting such a claim? 

(2)It's an absurd claim about the two games in question as well considering that the MP componets used such a small share of the development resources compared to the singleplayer component. Quit trying to use terms of science in your silly little emotion fueled crusade of butthurt against all things multiplayer.

 

1. I have observed.  That's exactly why I am using the term empirical evidence. I have observed from both Inquisition and Mass Effect 3 that Bioware has put in more effort into Multiplayer component than the single player component.  And the SP had suffered for it without question.  Anyone who denies is this is....in denial. 

 

2. Citation needed.

 

3. I don't need statements when actions speak louder than lies dripping from the mouths of pathological liars anyway. 

 

4. Enough with the vitriol.  It's making you look childish. 

[Fixers0]

What makes you think that ME3 without projected MP revenue gets the same budget as ME3 with projected MP revenue?

 

Because EA would want to release the best game possible with the money at hand. 

[Chealec]

You're asserting that MP delays SP DLC content a couple months.

1. There's not a whole lot of empirical evidence (we'd be arguing a trend based on a sample size of 2) to support this either way, but I would posit that EC, Black Emporium, and DAI's various bug and interface fixes were the culprit.
2. Is waiting a couple months for SP DLC really that big a deal?

Actually he's not - he's asserting that always-on DRM affects the SP DLC release schedule if you actually follow the thread... I'm sure that he thinks he's arguing against Multiplayer but really, he isn't.

 

What about the claim that the industry is obviously pushing an always online agenda. You can't not see this trend if you follow the industry closely. Can you explain why I might be wrong about this?

Argument from ignorance and the only counter I need to your absurd claim is the fact that singleplayer games don't simply still exist, but that games requiring constant online connection are hugely in the minority (and mostly limited to exclusively multiplayer games). I can totally not see this trend, because it only exists in the psychosis inflicted minds of malcontented antisocial gamers who are triggered by every single event of paradigm or techological shift in the industry as if it were an attack on their way of life. It's a bit like listening to religious people always prattling on about the end times being right around the corner for 2000+ years.

How is it an argument from ignorance when there is EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP time and time again?

Dragon Age Inquisition says hello.

Mass Effect 3 says hello.

If you don't know what I'm talking about when I'm referring to either of those two games, then you clearly haven't done your research or haven't paid attention to the DLC release history of either or the controversies of the latter.

[rashie]

Time spent in Blizzard's games: ~30k hours
I should get out ...

No kidding there, I know I had at least 5000 hours in WoW by the time I finally gave up, excluding starcraft and diablo since the late 90s and that's on the low end compared to some more hardcore folks.

[Zatche]

Because EA would want to release the best game possible with the money at hand.

Projects don't receive a budget based just on money on hand. That's a small part of it. The bigger part is "What is the projected Return on Investment?" SP and MP can have different ROIs, particularly when MP has its own revenue stream.

[KaiserShep]

I mean, ME3 MP was "co-op."

Yeah, I'm not really sure what the difference is. More than likely it'll just be the same basic principle as ME3's MP, but with bigger, presumably better maps and missions.

[AlanC9]

1. I have observed.  That's exactly why I am using the term empirical evidence. I have observed from both Inquisition and Mass Effect 3 that Bioware has put in more effort into Multiplayer component than the single player component.  And the SP had suffered for it without question.  Anyone who denies is this is....in denial.

I don't see any metrics on the first part. Do you have figures on the number of dev hours for MP vs SP content, or is this just you making up stuff?

I'm also not clear how you figure that time spent on MP would have been spent on SP if MP didn't exist. In which universe does budgeting work like that?

[AlanC9]

Because EA would want to release the best game possible with the money at hand.

That's ... profoundly silly. Why would EA pick an arbitrary amount of money to throw at a project? When you go shopping, do you hand your debit card to the clerk and say "give me that much stuff?"

Edit: you do realize that "the money at hand " for EA dwarfs the ME3 budget, right?

[Xen]

1. I have observed.  That's exactly why I am using the term empirical evidence. I have observed from both Inquisition and Mass Effect 3 that Bioware has put in more effort into Multiplayer component than the single player component.  And the SP had suffered for it without question.  Anyone who denies is this is....in denial. 

Your "observation" is hilariously biased, inobjective and not at all testable or repeatable. Calling it empirical evidence is not only factually incorrect according to the definition of the term (which you had to selectively bold out of context to make your point), but insulting to anyone who has ever been forced to actually learn how the scientific method fucntions in secondary school. 

 

 

2. Citation needed.

Why? I'm not the one claiming an empirical standard here, though if I wanted to, the massive disparity in file sizes between SP and MP content (which can be observed by anyone with the PC version of either game) as well as the fact that the MP componets were worked on by seperate, much smaller teams in both games would be more than enough for all but the strictest standards of scrutiny.

 

3. I don't need statements when actions speak louder than lies dripping from the mouths of pathological liars anyway. 

-claims "empirical evidence"
-doesn't actually need any evidence from anyone who knows what they are talking about

Now you're not even trying to do anything except make sane people who are reading this thread laugh. Being a pathological liar is a job requirement for working in the video game industry? I'm starting to think that you are actually a self-parody at this point.
 

4. Enough with the vitriol.  It's making you look childish. 

Poking holes in the statements of butthurt malcontents to make them deliver yet more entertaining kindergarten level logic hardly makes me the one to look "childish". Quite the opposite

[Geth Supremacy]

Gonna be sad when there is some type of SP information is released and all of them are busy crying and raging over what ever that announcement happens to be and how its a great injustice and going to make the game suck.  I love this stuff.

 

Someone should make a thread about that teaser video again mentioning the music used or how it didn't show the PC.

[The Arbiter]

That's right! Co op MP confirmed.
 
I can't find the specific source the site uses for the information, but this is important news.
 
 

 

Mass Effect: Andromeda is still far from release, but BioWare has revealed some new details about game’s big-size world and gameplay modes, which includes co-op multiplayer.
According to the Canadian developer, gamers will enjoy co-op multiplayer in a “really big” galaxy when Mass Effect: Andromeda releases on the PS4, Xbox One and PC. Mass Effect development director Chris Wynn suggested on Twitter that it’s on track to release in Holiday 2016, despite still being in an early stage of development.
ALSO READ: Mass Effect Andromeda Has Combat Similar to Mass Effect 3
Not long ago, GameTribute broke the story that Mass Effect: Andromeda runs run on an entirely new engine designed for the latest PS4, Xbox One and PC hardware. Lending more credence to that report, Wynn admitted that the game offers gamers a “really big” galaxy when compared to the earlier Mass Effect titles.
I don’t know about you, but we take “really big” to mean “ridiculously massive.” Fortunately, BioWare made sure not to make it a barren universe, having incorporated many exciting things for the most intrepid of space adventurers to do.
Co-op multiplayer makes a return, adding more variety to gameplay. It was a very enjoyable part of Mass Effect 3, but let’s hope it’s even better this time around.
Will Mass Effect: Andromeda be ready for a holiday 2016 release? Will co-op multiplayer add to the fun? Head to the comments section and let us know what you want to see in the game.

 
 
http://www.gametribu...ayer-big-world/

Fallout 4 co-op COME AT ME BRO

[Xaijin]

MP is terrible, totally unnecessary

ME3MP is very much a factor in ME:A existing at all, so you might perhaps want to un-crevasse thine underpants.

[Xaijin]

1. I have observed. That's exactly why I am using the term empirical evidence. I have observed from both Inquisition and Mass Effect 3 that Bioware has put in more effort into Multiplayer component than the single player component.  And the SP had suffered for it without question.  Anyone who denies is this is....in denial

100% false, and MP directly contributed to SP DLC that would have been cut being continued; in addition the MP was crafted by a separate team that is now in charge of ME:A combat theory and design. ME3 DLC being cut is because they shot themselves in the face by allowing two people on a team of 17 ostensible contributors to create endings for all intents and purposes by themselves, and thus having to "clarify" those endings. The extended cut budget did not appear out of thin air; and the simple fact is MP paid for ME3 continuing into the black for a very long period of time.

If you want ME:A to have considerable aftermarket content, you're going to have to rub elbows with dirty MP peasants smelling up your pristine space power fantasy.

[LinksOcarina]

100% false, and MP directly contributed to SP DLC that would have been cut being continued; in addition the MP was crafted by a separate team that is now in charge of ME:A combat theory and design. ME3 DLC being cut is because they shot themselves in the face by allowing two people on a team of 17 ostensible contributors to create endings by themselves, and thus having to "clarify" those endings. The extended cut budget did not appear out of thin air; and the simple fact is MP paid for ME3 continuing into the black for a very long period of time.

If you want ME:A to have considerable aftermarket content, you're going to have to rub elbows with dirty MP peasants smelling up your pristine space power fantasy.

 

I don't mean to butt in on this one point...but can someone please tell me why we keep going with the rumor regarding the ending only involving two writers? The only remote confirmation I have seen on that was an anonymous post that people believed to be Patrick Weekes, and that was not only never confirmed, but Weekes I believe denied it.

 

Was there another source I am unaware of?

[Fixers0]

That's ... profoundly silly. Why would EA pick an arbitrary amount of money to throw at a project? When you go shopping, do you hand your debit card to the clerk and say "give me that much stuff?"

 

It's not silly, and I never suggested that EA should just randomly throw money at a project, so would you kindly not put words into my mouth, if we get tot that point this discussion will be over very quickly.

 

That being said my point was that  ME3's SP experience would have been much more satisfying had the resources that had been committed to MP have been (partially) comitted into the singleplayer campaign instead, that way Bioware may have even been able to avoid the ending backlash, as well as the game generally being of higther quality, because in my opinion ME3 is rather underwhelming.

[KaiserShep]

ME3's SP campaign would probably have been better without silly things like galactic readiness and the EMS score you monitor in the war room.

[Fixers0]

ME3MP is very much a factor in ME:A existing at all, so you might perhaps want to un-crevasse thine underpants.

 

And SP is the reason Mass Effect exists at all, the formula worked perfectly for two entire games. That game developers and publishers have deluded themshelves into believing that adding MP in order to appeal to mainstream gamers is the only way to create succesful game series is not my problem.

[Astralify]

So basically it's turning into generic action game with mass effect-y coat of paint. *sigh* From a passionate fan to aggressive hater. Job well done EA

[Chealec]

And SP is the reason Mass Effect exists at all, the formula worked perfectly for two entire games. That game developers and publishers have deluded themshelves into believing that adding MP in order to appeal to mainstream gamers is the only way to create succesful game series is not my problem.

 

For an arbitrary bolt-on horde mode though, it was a surprisingly good arbitrary bolt-on horde mode... and for me provided more than 10x as much gameplay time as the SP. In fact it's largely responsible for the massive backlog of games I've not yet got around to playing.

[Xaijin]

rumor

It isn't a rumor, it is fact; and that's all I have to say on the matter.

exists

No such animal exists anymore and hasn't for several years, there is a wide swath of AAA level story-based games released this year and slated for the next two that have no MP components. MEAMP exists because ME3MP was very VERY successful, and in a cost to production ratio much much more successful then ME3SP by a rather large margin. The Build Team absolutely and unequivocally earned their stripes, and not only that, but they kept interest in the franchise amongst those still enamored of the universe but unequivocally unenamored of the endings, no small feat.

[Innocent Bystander]

The extended cut budget did not appear out of thin air; and the simple fact is MP paid for ME3 continuing into the black for a very long period of time.

Yup. I'll just make a wild guess and say that I spent 10x more money on Bio points for MP packs than on entire ME3. And I have two accounts with Digital Deluxe versions and all DLCs.

[Il Divo]

It's not silly, and I never suggested that EA should just randomly throw money at a project, so would you kindly not put words into my mouth, if we get tot that point this discussion will be over very quickly.

 

That being said my point was that  ME3's SP experience would have been much more satisfying had the resources that had been committed to MP have been (partially) comitted into the singleplayer campaign instead, that way Bioware may have even been able to avoid the ending backlash, as well as the game generally being of higther quality, because in my opinion ME3 is rather underwhelming.

 

This requires a few leaps in logic, namely that the resources would have gone to the ending in the first place. Bioware had a chance to correct all these issues via new cutscenes/dialogue in the EC and they still chose to leave most of the problematic elements: Shepard's death, Catalyst logic, and Synthesis space magic. The money might not have gone to the endings at all. ​

 

Not to mention too that MP allowed an alternative revenue stream via micro transactions. Sure, they could have used that money to throw at the SP (and I would have preferred that), but that wouldn't automatically lead to an increase in sales. Most of the people who bought ME3 were going to buy it regardless due to prior investment and wanting to see how the trilogy ended.

[LinksOcarina]

This requires a few leaps in logic, namely that the resources would have gone to the ending in the first place. Bioware had a chance to correct all these issues via new cutscenes/dialogue in the EC and they still chose to leave most of the problematic elements: Shepard's death, Catalyst logic, and Synthesis space magic. The money might not have gone to the endings at all. ​

 

Not to mention too that MP allowed an alternative revenue stream via micro transactions. Sure, they could have used that money to throw at the SP (and I would have preferred that), but that wouldn't automatically lead to an increase in sales. Most of the people who bought ME3 were going to buy it regardless due to prior investment and wanting to see how the trilogy ended.

 

This presumes BioWare saw those as "problematic" elements.

 

And regardless, BioWare more or less paid out of pocket to make the Extended Cut anyway, so wherever the money came from is little consequence. 

[AlanC9]

I don't mean to butt in on this one point...but can someone please tell me why we keep going with the rumor regarding the ending only involving two writers? The only remote confirmation I have seen on that was an anonymous post that people believed to be Patrick Weekes, and that was not only never confirmed, but Weekes I believe denied it.

Was there another source I am unaware of?

I think a lot of people just assume that Weekes was lying when he issued that denial. The ME team's close-mouthed even by Bio standards, so any hint of anything that leaks out becomes enormously important, regardless of how credible it is.