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Interaction between Single- and Multi-Player


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#76
Xen

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No. It's not. It'd be more akin to if Andromeda had stores, started you with 0 credits, made it to where you couldn't make credits from missions in any real way and the cheapest item in the game costs 10000 credits. That's the sort of thing that people don't want. A person should not be subjected to play another mode to receive content in another mode. And I don't even hate multiplayer in the games and I'd hate that. It'd especially make it terrible because if/when the servers go down, the game is essentially worthless. 

 

There are reasons to not want MP affecting the SP in significant ways. 

"Any real way". What does that mean? ME3MP was not only "real" as far as the game was concerned, it was canon and intergrated into the SP universe. Anyone who bought the game and had internet access could use it. That is a fact. You can't simply dismiss it as not "real" because you don't like it any more than my previous example could dismiss also available ingame credits as invalid because it is an example of capitalism that they don't like.

Why shouldn't that person "be subjected to play another mode to receive content in another mode"? Because they don't want to? Perhaps they shouldn't buy a game with multiplayer then, no? If the creators want it to work that way, than that is the way it should work. If the consumer doesn't want it to work that way, in a free market economy they could find something else that suits their tastes. Or they could cry on a forum. Either way.

Yes, but most of them are based on personal preferences, making them inherently no more valid than opinions to the contrary, so why should they be listened to at all?



#77
Youknow

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"Any real way". What does that mean? ME3MP was not only "real" as far as the game was concerned, it was canon and intergrated into the SP universe. Anyone who bought the game and had internet access could use it. That is a fact. You can't simply dismiss it as not "real" because you don't like it any more than my previous example could dismiss also available ingame credits as invalid because it is an example of capitalism that they don't like.

"Any real way" you know exactly what it means. As in, it's not possible without it. The rest of your rant means nothing because it isn't even addressing what I said. I'm not saying multiplayer isn't real. 

 

 

 

Why shouldn't that person "be subjected to play another mode to receive content in another mode"? Because they don't want to? Perhaps they shouldn't buy a game with multiplayer then, no? If the creators want it to work that way, than that is the way it should work. If the consumer doesn't want it to work that way, in a free market economy they could find something else that suits their tastes. Or they could cry on a forum. Either way.

Because they are two different modes. They should function independently of one another. "Because they don't want to" is a perfect reason that a person shouldn't be subjected to another mode that should be optional. With your style of argument, every person that doesn't like multiplayer in their games should just drop Bioware altogether then. That's asinine. Sure, if the creators want it to work in a foolish way, that's their choice, and people have the choice to not buy their games which causes the company to lose money-- like what in the world are you even trying to get at here? 

 

 

Yes, but most of them are based on personal preferences, making them inherently no more valid than opinions to the contrary, so why should they be listened to at all?

 

 

 
 
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#78
AlanC9

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It isn't locking anything away in the first place unless you have to pay to get it, which is reasonable anyway if it is post release DLC and thus required extra resources to implement. Multiplayer is available to you to acquire the content, you simply choose not to utilize it.

Let's not get hung up on the metaphor here. Would you prefer something along the lines of "making us jump through hoops"?

That's like saying that certain armor sets are locked away from me in ME3 because I illogically refuse to take part in the game's vendors due to them being a fiat currency based free market and thus conflicting with my personal communist sensibilities or whatever other ridiculous reason I come up with.


I'll sign on with that argument. Credits and shops are a terrible fit for ME, and should never have been in.

#79
AlanC9

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Why shouldn't that person "be subjected to play another mode to receive content in another mode"? Because they don't want to? Perhaps they shouldn't buy a game with multiplayer then, no? If the creators want it to work that way, than that is the way it should work. If the consumer doesn't want it to work that way, in a free market economy they could find something else that suits their tastes. Or they could cry on a forum. Either way.


Sure. If the creators really want to make the game worse, they're entitled to do that. All we can do at this stage is point out that this is a really stupid idea, and all we can do if they implement the really stupid idea is choose to put up with it, or choose not to.
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#80
AlanC9

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Hardware limitations aren't really relevant to the public opinion being expressed (which was and is a popular one among the fanbase). It isn't exactly a jump in logic to consider it an intentional troll. I'd argue you'd have to be deluded not to consider the possibility given the circumstances (fanbase petulantly cries for another way to "defeat" the Catalyst, refuse causes the Catalyst to defeat Shepard in a lulzy fashion), but of course neither assertion is any more valid considering that a dev hasn't spoken on the question to confirm or deny it.

It's not very consistent with the pre-EC forum debate. The predictable path of those threads was that someone would propose that Shepard should be able to refuse, which would meet with near-universal agreement, then someone would propose that this should lead to beating the Reapers with the Power of Friendship, and that position would be mercilessly mocked, rightly so. Bio implemented the popular position and skipped the unpopular part.

#81
Cyberstrike nTo

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"Any real way". What does that mean? ME3MP was not only "real" as far as the game was concerned, it was canon and intergrated into the SP universe. Anyone who bought the game and had internet access could use it. That is a fact. You can't simply dismiss it as not "real" because you don't like it any more than my previous example could dismiss also available ingame credits as invalid because it is an example of capitalism that they don't like.

Why shouldn't that person "be subjected to play another mode to receive content in another mode"? Because they don't want to? Perhaps they shouldn't buy a game with multiplayer then, no? If the creators want it to work that way, than that is the way it should work. If the consumer doesn't want it to work that way, in a free market economy they could find something else that suits their tastes. Or they could cry on a forum. Either way.

Yes, but most of them are based on personal preferences, making them inherently no more valid than opinions to the contrary, so why should they be listened to at all?

 

I shouldn't be almost forced to play a mode that I don't want to play to gain content in the mode I want to play in. Why is that such a hard concept for people like you to grasp? 

Does the Dragon Decor a player can win in DA:I MP actually helps them in anyway the MP mode? 

No, it's content that is only for the SP mode and is totally worthless in MP mode.

When I play in SP or MP the rewards I want are in that help me advance in that mode and not for the other mode and vice versa.


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#82
In Exile

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Why shouldn't that person "be subjected to play another mode to receive content in another mode"? Because they don't want to? Perhaps they shouldn't buy a game with multiplayer then, no? If the creators want it to work that way, than that is the way it should work. If the consumer doesn't want it to work that way, in a free market economy they could find something else that suits their tastes. Or they could cry on a forum. Either way.

 

You're right. That's why to play combat MP - which is unlockable, but not unlocked - people should have to drive the Mako v.2 - across an empty terrain - for 20 hours with 4 other people online. If people didn't want to drive the Mako v. 2 across an empty terrain for 20 hours to play combat MP, then they shouldn't have bought a game with the Mako.  If the consumer doesn't want it to work that way, in a free market economy they could find something else that suits their tastes.

 

Mockery of your silly position aside, that's not how the free market works. Developers are not psychic. They have no idea why people buy their games, or why they don't buy their games. They make marginally informed guesses.



#83
SilJeff

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Please keep them separate



#84
Xaijin

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"Any real way" you know exactly what it means. As in, it's not possible without it. The rest of your rant means nothing because it isn't even addressing what I said. I'm not saying multiplayer isn't real. 
 
Because they are two different modes. They should function independently of one another. "Because they don't want to" is a perfect reason that a person shouldn't be subjected to another mode that should be optional. With your style of argument, every person that doesn't like multiplayer in their games should just drop Bioware altogether then. That's asinine. Sure, if the creators want it to work in a foolish way, that's their choice, and people have the choice to not buy their games which causes the company to lose money-- like what in the world are you even trying to get at here? 



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Oh, wait, SP has playable races other than human, and the ability to pick multiple modular kits for your class?

#85
Xaijin

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I shouldn't be almost forced to play a mode that I don't want to play to gain content in the mode I want to play in. Why is that such a hard concept for people like you to grasp? 
Does the Dragon Decor a player can win in DA:I MP actually helps them in anyway the MP mode? 
No, it's content that is only for the SP mode and is totally worthless in MP mode.
When I play in SP or MP the rewards I want are in that help me advance in that mode and not for the other mode and vice versa.


Strike Team play does not have to be MP.

#86
KaiserShep

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Oh, wait, SP has playable races other than human, and the ability to pick multiple modular kits for your class?


Well, MP kind of has to offer those things.

#87
PatrickBateman

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It's simple, there should be no interaction at all between SP and MP as there should be no SP at all!

Focus on perfecting the MP instead and skip the mediocre filler content that is SP.

#88
Sartoz

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I shouldn't be almost forced to play a mode that I don't want to play to gain content in the mode I want to play in. Why is that such a hard concept for people like you to grasp? 

Does the Dragon Decor a player can win in DA:I MP actually helps them in anyway the MP mode? 

No, it's content that is only for the SP mode and is totally worthless in MP mode.

When I play in SP or MP the rewards I want are in that help me advance in that mode and not for the other mode and vice versa.

 

                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

I agree with what you say. And, I have a bad feeling about this. 

 

Let me explain.

EA wants more money and more streaming revenues. They know that a SP game is a one-off... a one-time-sale. Now, suppose there is a way to introduce MP type micro$transactions in the SP game... would EA go for it?.. I say yes.

 

How, you ask?

SP-MP crossover gaming, which eventually will lead to the possibility of you buying gear in MP and bring it back to SP.

 

I'm telling, you... it's sad... :(



#89
Iakus

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I shouldn't be almost forced to play a mode that I don't want to play to gain content in the mode I want to play in. Why is that such a hard concept for people like you to grasp? 

Does the Dragon Decor a player can win in DA:I MP actually helps them in anyway the MP mode? 

No, it's content that is only for the SP mode and is totally worthless in MP mode.

When I play in SP or MP the rewards I want are in that help me advance in that mode and not for the other mode and vice versa.

SO.  MUCH.  THIS!!!

 

It took me two days to finally get that Dragon Decor in DAI, and I didn't want to be in MP for one moment longer than I absolutely had to for it.  I felt ashamed to have to be carried through that map, even when I was grossly outleveled for it (yes, I did try to help, but I suck at MP and as I said, didn't want to be there in the first place) 


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#90
Sartoz

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SO.  MUCH.  THIS!!!

 

It took me two days to finally get that Dragon Decor in DAI, and I didn't want to be in MP for one moment longer than I absolutely had to for it.  I felt ashamed to have to be carried through that map, even when I was grossly outleveled for it (yes, I did try to help, but I suck at MP and as I said, didn't want to be there in the first place) 

 

                                                                         <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

And so what is EA's reason(s) for insisting you play MP?

 

My answer?.... potential moola from suckers willling to part with their money.



#91
In Exile

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                                                                         <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

And so what is EA's reason(s) for insisting you play MP?

 

My answer?.... potential moola from suckers willling to part with their money.

 

Microtransactions. They're quite lucrative. There's a frustration threshold the developers have to be careful not to cross, but they want to encourage people to play so that eventually they'll pay. This is why FTP exists as a business model, and works.



#92
LinksOcarina

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Microtransactions. They're quite lucrative. There's a frustration threshold the developers have to be careful not to cross, but they want to encourage people to play so that eventually they'll pay. This is why FTP exists as a business model, and works.

 

At the same time; has BioWare ever abused them before?

 

The thing that gets me is people often go down the "slippery slope" argument a bit on this one. We can, and should, measure how the games utilize it since its highly unlikely they are not going anywhere for a while.



#93
AlanC9

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Depends on what we're microtransacting for. If it's better equipment, pass. I'd pay to make the games harder, not easier.

#94
N7Jamaican

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I don't want a tie-in from MP to SP or vice versa



#95
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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At the same time; has BioWare ever abused them before?

The thing that gets me is people often go down the "slippery slope" argument a bit on this one. We can, and should, measure how the games utilize it since its highly unlikely they are not going anywhere for a while.


SWTOR
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#96
FKA_Servo

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SWTOR

 

Man, I subbed from release until just a couple of months ago. Frankly, I feel robbed. I enjoyed the game, but they couldn't have run with a more exploitive F2P model. Couldn't have given fewer subscriber benefits if they tried.



#97
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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Man, I subbed from release until just a couple of months ago. Frankly, I feel robbed. I enjoyed the game, but they couldn't have run with a more exploitive F2P model. Couldn't have given fewer subscriber benefits if they tried.


Yep. Even worse if you were not preferred.

#98
FlyingSquirrel

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As long as they won't go Dead Space 3 route (gated content in SP requiring co-op), I'll be fine.

 

Agreed. I was curious to see what those areas contained, but not to the point of wanting to play co-op.

 

I always feel self-conscious playing any kind of multiplayer, wondering if there are unspoken rules and expectations of how to play that I'm somehow violating and thereby pissing everybody off, even if they don't say anything about it, and that goes double if it's just me and one other person.


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#99
Xen

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"Any real way" you know exactly what it means. As in, it's not possible without it. The rest of your rant means nothing because it isn't even addressing what I said. I'm not saying multiplayer isn't real. 

No, I don't because my specialty isn't interpreting the poor diction of people crying about their irrational preferences. If you don't want to get called out for being bad at using the correct adjectives, than start choosing your words better. ME3's MP was just as "real" to the ingame universe as the vendors were. That you didn't want to play it but still wished to reap its benefits doesn't make it not exist.
 

Because they are two different modes. They should function independently of one another. "Because they don't want to" is a perfect reason that a person shouldn't be subjected to another mode that should be optional. With your style of argument, every person that doesn't like multiplayer in their games should just drop Bioware altogether then. That's asinine. 

 

 

None of that is an actual argument using any form of reasoning or logic beyond personal prefrences; your personal preferences, which are irrelevant outside of the money you provide individually as a result of them

If people don't like multiplayer in their games, than they should probably not play games with multiplayer (i.e., current Bioware titles). That actually seems like a completely rational course of action, as would be ignoring the optional MP mode and accepting the consequences of lost content, but unfortunately many of these people are not rational. They'd rather cry on a forum about their minority fringe belief system that MP is the harbinger of gaming's destruction or some other ridiculous, psychosis motivated nonsense than simply do what they need to do and what is easily available to them get what they want (i.e, a virtually pointless 2 second easter egg ending in ME3's case, or pointless armor set in DA:I).

 

 Sure, if the creators want it to work in a foolish way, that's their choice, and people have the choice to not buy their games which causes the company to lose money-- like what in the world are you even trying to get at here? 

 

 

 
-snip$$$$snip-

 

Hahah, you're clearly detached from reality here. So the lost money of malcontented BSN forumites who buy the games anyway despite incessantly crying about their features (i.e. the money isn't actually lost at all), is greater than the amount gained from the literally millions of ME3MP accounts and their resultant participation of most of them in the store's microtransaction system? No doubt the creation of many of those accounts was motivated by the ability to get rewarded with better content in the singleplayer mode for playing the full game as the developers intended for you to. I'd say it's a brilliant system. You keep all the BSN babbies, because they're idiots who will shill for things they complain about anyway, but gain more revenue from the vast majority of normal people who have no strong ideological feelings about this issue one way or another. 

Still, great work in making arguments in favour of my position. Perhaps you will learn something via this dialectic yet. 
 

 

 

I shouldn't be almost forced to play a mode that I don't want to play to gain content in the mode I want to play in. Why is that such a hard concept for people like you to grasp? 

Does the Dragon Decor a player can win in DA:I MP actually helps them in anyway the MP mode? 

No, it's content that is only for the SP mode and is totally worthless in MP mode.

When I play in SP or MP the rewards I want are in that help me advance in that mode and not for the other mode and vice versa.

You aren't "almost forced" or even forced at all. That content is entirely optional. The "concept" (use of this word gives the belief way too much credit IMO) isn't hard to grasp at all, it is simply unreasonable and irrational. I grasp it fully, which is why I like deconstructing it and watching the extremist types squirm under the weight of their awful arguments.

Your last 3 statements assume that I am a player who rabidly clings to a single gamemode due to some hilarious ideology rather than getting my money's worth and experiencing all the content in the game I paid money for. Personally, I'm more than happy to see benefits from one game mode when I fire up the other, regardless of which way it is going. BF4 as a non Bioware example has a few weapons that are unlocked through the SP mode, which are arguably better than the starting ones in MP, and I loved being able to get them to improve my MP experience. Similarly, I liked my efforts in maximizing my outcomes in both SP and MP to get the best possible outcome in ME3 acknowledged. Enabling lazy malcontents to cry on a forum and get the same result takes away the exclusivity. In the same way that winners get the gold medal, and losers get slivers, bronzes and participation trophies, the natural order of glorious MP Players> SP extremist peasants should have remained as it was. 
 

You're right. That's why to play combat MP - which is unlockable, but not unlocked - people should have to drive the Mako v.2 - across an empty terrain - for 20 hours with 4 other people online. If people didn't want to drive the Mako v. 2 across an empty terrain for 20 hours to play combat MP, then they shouldn't have bought a game with the Mako.  If the consumer doesn't want it to work that way, in a free market economy they could find something else that suits their tastes.

 

Mockery of your silly position aside, that's not how the free market works. Developers are not psychic. They have no idea why people buy their games, or why they don't buy their games. They make marginally informed guesses.

I would be fine with it, though your analogy is extremely flawed. To date no singleplayer mode in any Bioware game has been "locked" behind multiplayer content, only very inconsequential easter eggs. You needn't play MP at to unlock SP in any of them, so I don't know where you are going with this. A better analogy would be a gun or mod that is unlocked by driving the Mako for 20 hours in SP, which I would be fine with and in fact welcome provided the Mako isn't overly boring and horribly implemented like the ME1 version (and even if it were, I wouldn't cry about it or would simply not do it at all if the cost outweighed the benefit of the item for me). It is also highly unlikely to happen unless there is potentially some revenue to be gained by encouraging people to drive the Mako in whatever model the game uses.

Easy deconstruction of your ill concieved and clearly not butthurt motivated hyperbolic analogies aside, that's exactly how a free market works. The developer is motivated primarily by two things, an artistic vision and maximizing profit. If a feature promotes or does not detract from these things it is included. Encouraging people to use their whole product is in the developer's interest, especially if there is a potential revenue stream they are missing out on. It isn't hard to comprehend at all unless you are some BSN fossil who has engaged in groupthink with like minded individuals that they managed to meet via the internet, stumbling their way forward to the ill conceived conclusion that they are not part of an extremely small minority of consumers, and further a group that will buy the games despite the inclusion of their ideological nemesis (multiplayer modes) in said games, so should not be pandered to for any reason.

 


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#100
FlyingSquirrel

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One thing I thought they should have done in ME3 was to make the MP maps available in the Armax Arena from the Citadel DLC. I would have enjoyed playing through a 10-round battle using Shepard and two squadmates and with extra objectives like disabling transmitters and what not, instead of just 3 rounds of "try not to die" in those new maps. If there's any kind of training area in ME:A, I hope they make something along these lines an option, i.e. trying the MP maps with your player-character and squadmates.