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Interaction between Single- and Multi-Player


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#126
In Exile

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You have to kill a High Dragon in the Dragonslayer MP DLC. I don't know the specifics since I don't do MP.

I imagine it's an experiment. Are there any potential MP players who would like MP if they could only be persuaded to try it? Or are players going to react the way Iakus did on page 4 of this thread -- earn the decor, hate MP, and never touch it again? The whole theory of incentivizing MP assumes that there are a significant number of players in the former group.


I've always found it a perplexing theory because it's predicate on consumers don't understanding their own taste in a really broad way. When we're talking about styles of gameplay within a genre, I can see the appeal behind trying to see if players can be incentivised to play different modes (e.g. the idea that non-RPG gamers like to fiddle with stats, and we just need to bridge that gap to get then to try an RPG despite the genre's reputation). It's a bit like how someone - if they really like meat but never tried, say, beef - might be persuaded to try it and like it.

But it seems to me that MP and SP are really different ways to game, since it's partly about social interaction. I'd be surprised if there was a truly substantial population that didn't know if they liked MP or SP (provided they at point played both). To me it seems more like trying to get a vegetarian to eat meat, to keep up the food-based analogy.

I suppose the idea is that some people might never have tried MP.
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#127
NWN-Ming-Ming

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I have no idea what you mean by this? Was a certain Decor set for Skyhold locked away as an unlockable in Multiplayer? What was the pre-requisite for unlocking it? Did you have to reach a certain level or is it random loot that you have cross your fingers and pray drops?

Yeah Alan answered pretty much.  You have to kill a High Dragon in the Dragonslayer MP DLC, that was what I read on the promotional material and the wikia.

 

I refuse to touch MP, and so when I saw that Bioware started to do this, I got a sinking feeling in my gut and have kept my fingers crossed that this 'experiment' fails utterly. 

 

I despise MP.



#128
FKA_Servo

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If Isabela can't get me to stick with the MP, I guarantee that MP specific SP decorations won't either. They're just going to make me resentful.
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#129
Cyberstrike nTo

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                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

I agree with what you say. And, I have a bad feeling about this. 

 

Let me explain.

EA wants more money and more streaming revenues. They know that a SP game is a one-off... a one-time-sale. Now, suppose there is a way to introduce MP type micro$transactions in the SP game... would EA go for it?.. I say yes.

 

How, you ask?

SP-MP crossover gaming, which eventually will lead to the possibility of you buying gear in MP and bring it back to SP.

 

I'm telling, you... it's sad... :(

 

Yes, it is sad. I'm enough of a cynical realist pessimest to get that EA only wants more of my money for the execs while the devs get screwed with the rest of us. But I'll be damned if I don't voice my problems with it. 



#130
Ghost of Margie Thatcher

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An other suggestion would be to give multiple options of getting the reward

 

I think this would be the way to go, if they were looking to do it.



#131
AlanC9

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To be specific, I didn't care for MP to begin with.

I did try a few rounds of it after the Dragonslayer pack came out. BEcause hey, I should at least try this aspect of the game. I didn't care for it, and at the time there was no connection to SP, so I just gave up and forgot about it.

Then they added that decor.

Now there aren't a whole lot of decorating options in DAI. ANd even fewer options that actually look good. Dragon Decor looks good. ANd so OF COURSE, it was locked behind MP.

I resisted giving in, but finally gave up. Wasted a couple of evenings trying to bring down a high dragon. WHen I finally got it, I was on a level 15 archer on Routine difficulty. And I died in the fight. But at least i got it.

So now my qunari Inquisitor WHO HAS KILLED EVERY FREAKING HIGH DRAGON IN THE SP GAME now has dragon decor becuase his freaking minions brought him some.

Never do this again, Bioware. :angry:

On the plus side, you'll look like a terrible data point for Bio; looking at your usage pattern it'd be pretty obvious that they're burning goodwill and gaining nothing. I wonder if people who hate MP should actually play for the decor, just to show Bio that after they get the decor they still don't like MP.

#132
Iakus

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On the plus side, you'll look like a terrible data point for Bio; looking at your usage pattern it'd be pretty obvious that they're burning goodwill and gaining nothing. I wonder if people who hate MP should actually play for the decor, just to show Bio that after they get the decor they still don't like MP.

I would rather hunt down another 100 shards for that oasis temple.  in SP than do that again.

 

No this is not hyperbole.  I really would rather do that.



#133
SolNebula

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I've touched MP just once on DAI. In ME3 I only played to get that readiness up once without paying a single dime. I hate MP and they won't get a single coin from me in MP. EA understand money and if all SP gamers were to avoid spending real cash on MP at ANY cost regardless of the bonuses you might get.....well MP would have disappeared the day after. It's about determination and self-control. Not a single cent on MP. My rule.
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#134
AlanC9

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@ Iakus: I didn't mean that you should do it; I was thinking of me, SolNebula, and people like us. You've already taken one for the team.


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#135
Xen

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Which doesn't explain your absolutely unnecessary and innate need to continue to rant if you needed nothing more than a clarification. Rational people merely ask the question and then remain silent. It's clear that you knew what was meant, you just wanted to continue to incessantly hammer at your keyboard. Hence my statement of "the rest of your rant is pointless." Just like your definition of "irrational" is completely backwards. "irrational" does not mean "I don't like it." 

I couldn't care less about your preference, it is irrational because it is not based upon any categorical difference between the two modes other than the fact that one is titled multiplayer, and that word causes you to froth at the mouth due to an ideology. The gameplay in MP is practically identical to many of the combat sections in the singleplayer mode, and you can even play it alone if you so desire. Having you play some MP to boost readiness is functionally no different than making you do a SP sidequest get the same result.

The rest of your paragraph is itself a butthurt "rant" about me publicly deconstructing your horrible diction and crying about how mean I'm being to you. If you don't want that to happen then perhaps you should examine your posts for logic fails before crying them onto your keyboard.

 

 

Yeah, and if enough people don't like it, they don't buy it. Again, this argument makes absolutely no sense that you're saying. None. I ask for a clarification and you STILL say nothing but nonsense. 

I don't even know what you're crying here for clarification on but "if enough people don't like it, they don't buy it" is crap. Want evidence, look under your own name or the names of countless other SP extremists in this thread. ME3 icons, DA:I icons galore. Clearly these features didn't stop butthurt people like yourself from buying the game, and as you represent what is almost certainly an extremist viewpoint on this issue (given the vast, vast majority of players don't actually care enough about the games to post on a forum about them), where is this market of malcontented babbies who are actually refusing to purchase the games? You certainly aren't one. You give them your $60 and then they laugh at you as I do, and continue to make games with intergrated MP and SP content because it makes business sense.

Cry all you want, EA/Bioware still has your money, and they will continue to get it. Meanwhile, including and encouraging people to play MP is in their interest as it both reaches a different demographic (people who enjoy MP game) and encourages those who may not have strong feelings about trying it one way or another, but could potentially like it (many of the MP forum regulars admit to having never tried an MP game before ME3MP) and support the product/ company in the future. A few tears on the forum from people who buy the game anyway isn't even a real price to pay.

 

 

This is the worst argument. It's not really a brilliant system. It's a system that is short-lived. It's not the type of system you'll see surviving for generations. It's extremely hit-or-miss. If you miss, you ended up with a rather lackluster game that no one pays attention to that has no staying power. You can see it with all of the FTP MMOs out there that crop up, last for a couple of months and then die.

 

And I fail to see how someone preferring the two stay separate is somehow irrational. What's irrational is feeling the need to berate people for having a preference. 

Why, because you say it is? You're going to have to do better than that. Even if it were a "short lived" system (judging by the fact that there are MP games that have been around for decades that still have strong communities this is categorically not the case), what does that matter when games are a flat price that the developer doesn't collect profit on after the sale apart from DLC's and microtransactions?

Why is it inherently "hit or miss"? ME3MP still has a large, active community. The continued success of BF4 (a previously mentioned game with cross mode content) doesn't seem to be hurt by it. Have you ever considered the possiblity that games fail to have staying power when they are badly designed (as the majority of FTP games are), and it really has little to do with this particular feature? This isn't even a little relevant.

It is irrational because this demand is based upon ideological factionalism rather than judging content on its merits. People whine that they don't like Multiplayer being intergrated with Singleplayer, but they hardly ever iterate the reasons as to why, and if they do those reasons usually don't apply to MP vs SP in Bioware games. The only rational argument from the anti MP side I've ever seen on this issue was the one based on the need for internet connection, but that isn't a consideration for the vast majority of players.
 

I don't consider the breath scene and inconquestential or even an easter egg. Before it was patched it required to have an extremely high war assests and galactric readiness which forced me to play the MP mode more times than I actually wanted too. Because the GR drops really fast after you leave the MP mode. Sure BioWare fixed it but in my OPINION it should never been locked behind the MP mode to begin with,

Why?

Because it added no value to MP.

None.

Not a god damn thing.

It doesn't help you at all in MP mode.

So why lock it away in a mode where it has no value?

 

You can also stick your superior attitude up your ass.  

It's about 3 seconds long and has literally no effect on anything in the narrative before or after it. It also isn't foreshadowed at all. It's inconsequential and an easter egg.

However the ability to only gain it via playing MP initially objectively added value to the MP. That content was impossible to access without using it, ergo increasing its value and impact on the game overall, and thus the number of reasons to use it, the number of players who used it and almost certainly the amount of money made through microtransactions. You making declarative statements to the contrary with zero rationale or evidence behind them while getting butthurt and swearing impotently because you can't defeat my arguments doesn't change that.

I could report you for getting so mad except that it amuses me, because I'm not a giant craibabby looking for reasons to get triggered. 

 

 

 

I resisted giving in, but finally gave up.  Wasted a couple of evenings trying to bring down a high dragon.  WHen I finally got it, I was on a level 15 archer on Routine difficulty.  And I died in the fight.  But at least i got it.

So basically, you're mad because you're bad at video games? Why ask to eliminate MP? Why not simply ask for a baby tier difficulty like you get in the SP so even you can get those things without being bulled by the mean AI dragon in lolRoutine difficulty?

Not that I'd support Bio doing this at all. It's participation trophy babby entitlement culture at its finest. Everyone gets a pat on the head even though only a few of them actually have any ability. No one has to work for anything they want, even in a videogame where you aren't actually even "working" at all. Bioware should just give everyone a trophy everytime I solo ME3MP on Platinum difficulty, because clearly we're all special snowflakes.


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#136
Killdren88

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There shouldn't be any interactions between the two at all. I don't like the idea of making someone play with other people in order to unlock or see something in the Singleplayer. Keep them  separate so both camps don't have to deal with each other. You'll have plenty of people there only for the Multiplayer anyway so you don't need to drag those who want nothing to do with it into it.



#137
Xen

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EA understand money and if all SP gamers were to avoid spending real cash on MP at ANY cost regardless of the bonuses you might get.....well MP would have disappeared the day after. It's about determination and self-control. 

No it wouldn't have, because the money of a few dozen malcontented, extremist forumites is utterly insignificant to a Fortune 500 company like EA, at least when there are literally millions of other players whom are more reasonable than you that they could try appealing to.

They don't care about you, and they have no reason to, especially considering you continue to mindlessly spend the full $60 on their games regardless of whether or not they have MP.



#138
They call me a SpaceCowboy

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No it wouldn't have, because the money of a few dozen malcontented, extremist forumites is utterly insignificant to a Fortune 500 company like EA, at least when there are literally millions of other players whom are more reasonable than you that they could try appealing to.

They don't care about you, and they have no reason to, especially considering you continue to mindlessly spend the full $60 on their games regardless of whether or not they have MP.

 

Why do you care so much how others prefer to spend their time? Seriously, what possible difference can it make to you how someone else prefers to play a game?

 

You're the extremist here. Just look at all your ranting. You even started a thread on the subject that got deleted pretty quick. Isn't that telling you something?


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#139
AlanC9

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How bad was that nuked thread, anyway?

Edit: NVM: Google's got it in the cache. Yikes.

#140
Helios969

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I couldn't care less about your preference, it is irrational because it is not based upon any categorical difference between the two modes other than the fact that one is titled multiplayer, and that word causes you to froth at the mouth due to an ideology. The gameplay in MP is practically identical to many of the combat sections in the singleplayer mode, and you can even play it alone if you so desire. Having you play some MP to boost readiness is functionally no different than making you do a SP sidequest get the same result.

The rest of your paragraph is itself a butthurt "rant" about me publicly deconstructing your horrible diction and crying about how mean I'm being to you. If you don't want that to happen then perhaps you should examine your posts for logic fails before crying them onto your keyboard.

 

I don't even know what you're crying here for clarification on but "if enough people don't like it, they don't buy it" is crap. Want evidence, look under your own name or the names of countless other SP extremists in this thread. ME3 icons, DA:I icons galore. Clearly these features didn't stop butthurt people like yourself from buying the game, and as you represent what is almost certainly an extremist viewpoint on this issue (given the vast, vast majority of players don't actually care enough about the games to post on a forum about them), where is this market of malcontented babbies who are actually refusing to purchase the games? You certainly aren't one. You give them your $60 and then they laugh at you as I do, and continue to make games with intergrated MP and SP content because it makes business sense.

Cry all you want, EA/Bioware still has your money, and they will continue to get it. Meanwhile, including and encouraging people to play MP is in their interest as it both reaches a different demographic (people who enjoy MP game) and encourages those who may not have strong feelings about trying it one way or another, but could potentially like it (many of the MP forum regulars admit to having never tried an MP game before ME3MP) and support the product/ company in the future. A few tears on the forum from people who buy the game anyway isn't even a real price to pay.

 

Why, because you say it is? You're going to have to do better than that. Even if it were a "short lived" system (judging by the fact that there are MP games that have been around for decades that still have strong communities this is categorically not the case), what does that matter when games are a flat price that the developer doesn't collect profit on after the sale apart from DLC's and microtransactions?

Why is it inherently "hit or miss"? ME3MP still has a large, active community. The continued success of BF4 (a previously mentioned game with cross mode content) doesn't seem to be hurt by it. Have you ever considered the possiblity that games fail to have staying power when they are badly designed (as the majority of FTP games are), and it really has little to do with this particular feature? This isn't even a little relevant.

It is irrational because this demand is based upon ideological factionalism rather than judging content on its merits. People whine that they don't like Multiplayer being intergrated with Singleplayer, but they hardly ever iterate the reasons as to why, and if they do those reasons usually don't apply to MP vs SP in Bioware games. The only rational argument from the anti MP side I've ever seen on this issue was the one based on the need for internet connection, but that isn't a consideration for the vast majority of players.
 

It's about 3 seconds long and has literally no effect on anything in the narrative before or after it. It also isn't foreshadowed at all. It's inconsequential and an easter egg.

However the ability to only gain it via playing MP initially objectively added value to the MP. That content was impossible to access without using it, ergo increasing its value and impact on the game overall, and thus the number of reasons to use it, the number of players who used it and almost certainly the amount of money made through microtransactions. You making declarative statements to the contrary with zero rationale or evidence behind them while getting butthurt and swearing impotently because you can't defeat my arguments doesn't change that.

I could report you for getting so mad except that it amuses me, because I'm not a giant craibabby looking for reasons to get triggered. 

 

So basically, you're mad because you're bad at video games? Why ask to eliminate MP? Why not simply ask for a baby tier difficulty like you get in the SP so even you can get those things without being bulled by the mean AI dragon in lolRoutine difficulty?

Not that I'd support Bio doing this at all. It's participation trophy babby entitlement culture at its finest. Everyone gets a pat on the head even though only a few of them actually have any ability. No one has to work for anything they want, even in a videogame where you aren't actually even "working" at all. Bioware should just give everyone a trophy everytime I solo ME3MP on Platinum difficulty, because clearly we're all special snowflakes.

Lol, so you respond with butthurt rant of your own.  Fantastic.


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#141
AlanC9

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Having you play some MP to boost readiness is functionally no different than making you do a SP sidequest get the same result.


Yep. Has anyone at all minded you guys being able to skip some SP content by playing MP? You've been asking for special rewards for MP players, but that's not at all the same thing as MP earning you stuff that SP players can get too.

Meanwhile, including and encouraging people to play MP is in their interest as it both reaches a different demographic (people who enjoy MP game) and encourages those who may not have strong feelings about trying it one way or another, but could potentially like it (many of the MP forum regulars admit to having never tried an MP game before ME3MP) and support the product/ company in the future. A few tears on the forum from people who buy the game anyway isn't even a real price to pay.


Do people who like MP actually need to be encouraged to play MP? I thought liking MP would be enough motivation to play MP. I suppose there are a handful of players who won't play free MP without a SP reward for playing it. But will anyone in that group actually like MP enough to keep playing it?
 

It is irrational because this demand is based upon ideological factionalism rather than judging content on its merits. People whine that they don't like Multiplayer being intergrated with Singleplayer, but they hardly ever iterate the reasons as to why,


Not wanting to play MP needs a reason? Why does it?
 
I'll let Iakus handle your silly rant at him, but you raise an interesting question. Why do MP players feel a need to be rewarded, or recognized? Is your self-esteem really that low? You've been coming across as someone whose only real talent is being good at MP, but I always assumed that was just weird posturing.
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#142
Ghost of Margie Thatcher

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I've touched MP just once on DAI. In ME3 I only played to get that readiness up once without paying a single dime. I hate MP and they won't get a single coin from me in MP. EA understand money and if all SP gamers were to avoid spending real cash on MP at ANY cost regardless of the bonuses you might get.....well MP would have disappeared the day after. It's about determination and self-control. Not a single cent on MP. My rule.

 

I'm pretty sure that a very big majority of the people who played DAI MP and ME 3 MP didn't spend any money, either. The model was never built around that. So, MP wasn't going to disappear whether SP people spent money on it or not. The part of your point the really confuses me, though, is why would someone buy MP packs if they don't play the MP mode, anyway? It seems like you're lamenting that SP players (which is pretty much everyone) didn't withhold money that the vast majority of them never spent because they were never going to spend it, anyway. I don't think it takes any determination or self control not to spend money on something that you don't intend to use.



#143
FKA_Servo

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Is your self-esteem really that low? You've been coming across as someone whose only real talent is being good at MP, but I always assumed that was just weird posturing.

 

Since I'm like, 90% certain this is the troll account of another Tali avatared MP enthusiast, I'm pretty sure it's partially just trollish performance art. If you get off on antagonizing people, SP fans' goats are extraordinarily easily gotten.



#144
Xaijin

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EA understand money and if all SP gamers were to avoid spending real cash on MP at ANY cost regardless of the bonuses you might get.....well MP would have disappeared the day after. It's about determination and self-control.



For someone soliloquizing quality paradigms, you apparently don't understand the differences between the colors silver and black; because the only reason I'm even considering purchasing ME:A, and I even have friends on the team, is because of ME3MP. MP possesses qualities that the content after Rannoch onward, and that includes DLC, does not. You've either never tried MP, or you're exaggerating to attempt to conflate your point.

There is a sizable and measurable contingent of players that have never finished ME3's SP campaign yet have every unlock in MP, and the reason why isn't because all they play are MP games. The reasons why are rather obvious and plain, and they do not reflect well on several decisions Edmonton made, some at EA's behest, some entirely of their own volition.
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#145
AlanC9

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I'll bite. What are those qualities?

#146
Catastrophy

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There will be likely interaction between the two modes and it will be a necessary interaction to interest players in playing both modes. MP will always benefit from a larger playerbase so it makes sense to put in incentives to SPlayers for playing it.

It may be designed in a way that is annoying and makes people feel "forced" to play it or it may not be designed in such a way. I rather assume pure SP will still be possible should people choose to leave out a potentially fun MP experience.



#147
Killdren88

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There will be likely interaction between the two modes and it will be a necessary interaction to interest players in playing both modes. MP will always benefit from a larger playerbase so it makes sense to put in incentives to SPlayers for playing it.

It may be designed in a way that is annoying and makes people feel "forced" to play it or it may not be designed in such a way. I rather assume pure SP will still be possible should people choose to leave out a potentially fun MP experience.

 

There is little fun to be had to try and force people into a place that they don't want to be. You're only hurting your own experience doing that.



#148
Catastrophy

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There is little fun to be had to try and force people into a place that they don't want to be. You're only hurting your own experience doing that.

While that may be so it doesn't need to be like that.



#149
Xaijin

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bite



Sorry, I don't have an agenda, and I'm not bored and am spectacularly uninterested in changing anyone's opinion; I'm simply pointing out that an opinion made without facts isn't really going to stand up to any kind of scrutiny other than the contextual that it's opinion and therefore immune from objective scrutiny.

The end of ME3 both removes player agency and obviates narrative thematics and that BioWare spent 6 years and over a hundred million dollars developing and presenting, nevermind dev and player time and resource investment, and those aren't subjective interpretations.

Not only is none of that patina to be found in MP, but it presents quite the opposite qualities, and relies on them for its primary reward and gameplay framework.

The notion that somehow ME3 was diminished by MP is rather laughable, especially in light of what was offered in the DLCs presented. There's a very obvious cross-pollination effort running through all of them, so apparently the notion of sacrosanct separation didn't fly then, and it won't fly in Andromeda either.

#150
Killdren88

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While that may be so it doesn't need to be like that.

 

You might be a pleasant person to hang with. But I will say this. Playing Ride to Hell: Retribution(Said to be among the worst games ever made) Is a more pleasing idea to me than playing with anyone here.