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[FernRain]

Near the Heidrun Thaig, there is a chamber lined with the claws of Dumat, along with this other strange bird creature:
 

 
They are also in the Dwarven area below Crestwood, and in the Primeval Thaig.
 
Then I thought, well that makes sense: claw of Dumat - birds have claws. But is there any lore to suggest a connection between Dumat and birds (or Mythal, assuming the Old God / Elven God connection)? I'm fairly certain the statue is depicting a bird and not a dragon because it has a beak. Lastly, why were the Dwarves interested in the Old Gods?

 

Share your ideas and theories .

[thats1evildude]

Lastly, why were the Dwarves interested in the Old Gods?

I won't speculate on the rest, but I suspect any Tevinter relics you find in dwarven ruins are simply a remnant of their alliance with the Tevinter Imperium. (They're still allies today, of course, but Orzammar's main trading partner is now Orlais.)

[Yaroub]

Oh for crying out loud not everything's connected to the blasted elves.

 

Dumat annihilates Mythal, Dumat devours all.

 

Leave our gods to us.

[Sunnie]

Oh for crying out loud not everything's connected to the blasted elves.

 

^ this..

And, the old gods and the elven pantheon are NOT connected. Too many people have too much time on their hands.

[FernRain]

I haven't wed myself to the Old God = Elven God idea, hence the 'assuming'.

 

Anyhow, the bird depiction still has my interest. Silentir gives no hints either.

[FernRain]

Dumat annihilates Mythal, Dumat devours all.

 

I'd like to hear about this, can't find anything about it.

[Aulis Vaara]

Then I thought, well that makes sense: claw of Dumat - birds have claws. But is there any lore to suggest a connection between Dumat and birds (or Mythal, assuming the Old God / Elven God connection)?

 

Dumat is Dirthamen, Dirthamen was master of the ravens Fear and Deceit.

[Aulis Vaara]

^ this..

And, the old gods and the elven pantheon are NOT connected. Too many people have too much time on their hands.

 

You're wrong. The connections between the both pantheons are too strong to ignore. There is clearly a relation between the two.

I mean, there are seven Old Gods and seven elven gods that are imprisoned. There is rumor that an eighth Old God once existed that was associated with dragon iconography. Mythal was murdered and associated with dragon iconography.
 

The divine spheres of both Dumat and Dirthamen are secrets and their main motif silence. Even Dumat's high priest has the service of a Fear (Nightmare) and Deceit (Envy) demon.

Andruil and Zazikel are both associate with chaos and madness. High priest of Zazikel is even the Madman Of Chaos.

Urthemiel's high priest was the Architect Of The Works Of Beauty while Ghilan'nain created the Halla (the most graceful creature of thedas?). Urthemiel was also associated with a beautiful woman, which could very well be Ghilan'nain.

June was the smith of the gods, the high priest of Toth was called the Forgewright of Fire. Not much known about either of these gods.

Andoral was the god of slaves, and we learned of Falon'Din that he sought to amass more and more worshippers to be used as sacrifices for his rituals.

Razikale was the goddess of mysteries, while Sylaise taught the elves about the mysteries of childbirth and medicine.

 

Lusacan is the dragon of night, Elgar'nan created the night.

That's one hell of a correlation to just throw aside. Furthermore, Tevinter stole everything from Arlathan, including architecture, magic, and culture, so why wouldn't they also steal their gods? Especially when there are temples with magic pools that would bind people to those gods' wills?

[Reznore57]

^ this..

And, the old gods and the elven pantheon are NOT connected. Too many people have too much time on their hands.

 

I'm seeing two dragons in the same pose here.

[Yaroub]

I'd like to hear about this, can't find anything about it.

 

Uh very well.

 

Um, Blessed are you Dumat, silent and strong secret and wise, O lord of silence we bring sacrifices to your hungry heart, that you may deliver us from sin and grant us your hallowed wisdom.

 

There is nothing, There is only silence

There is no truth but Dumat.

 

Good stuff huh? you should ditch the elves and seek redemption from the most sublime one.

[FernRain]

I'm seeing two dragons in the same pose here.

 

Hmm. Is that a dragon or a bird in the Heidrun Thaig then..

[Reznore57]

Back on topic those dark statues are just weird.

We found them first in the Primeval Thaig ..

Then there's the "Claw of Dumat " in Here Lies The Abyss.

I can't remember if there's statues of the Old Gods in  the Tevinter buildings we found all over DAI.

 

It's possible it's a case of reused asset ...

 

But anyway to keep on with the strange sh** , there's a codex about a guy figuring out it was Dumat attacking him because it looked like the statues all over the Imperium.

Now honestly unless you're a dragon expert I'm not sure a statue would help much ...

But anyway those dragons were underground and Tevinter never saw them .They were just whispers from the fade...so how did they managed to create statues looking like them?

Maybe they had visions.

But still Dumat was also corrupted , so I don't know.

I mean Archdemons look pretty bad and not like your average dragon , so hum....was Tevinter worshipping corrupted entities all along?Even before the Blight?

[Reznore57]

Hmm. Is that a dragon or a bird in the Heidrun Thaig then..

 

Don't know , you'd have to look from the front I guess , and it look like this statue has seen better days.

Besides there's different black statues and some look like ...well I have no idea what they're supposed to look like.

[Mac007]

Is it possible some dwarves decided to worship the Tevinter Gods instead? I mean not every dwarf worships The Stone; remember that dwarf (Brother Burkel, I think) who wanted help founding a dwaft chantry?

[lordsaren101]

You are all unworthy of Dumat. Your theories are nonsense and shall we say, for the birds. Dumat is lord all else is folly. Elves and their pithy religion are rattus.

[Sunnie]

You're wrong. The connections between the both pantheons are too strong to ignore. There is clearly a relation between the two.

I mean, there are seven Old Gods and seven elven gods that are imprisoned. There is rumor that an eighth Old God once existed that was associated with dragon iconography. Mythal was murdered and associated with dragon iconography.
 

The divine spheres of both Dumat and Dirthamen are secrets and their main motif silence. Even Dumat's high priest has the service of a Fear (Nightmare) and Deceit (Envy) demon.

Andruil and Zazikel are both associate with chaos and madness. High priest of Zazikel is even the Madman Of Chaos.

Urthemiel's high priest was the Architect Of The Works Of Beauty while Ghilan'nain created the Halla (the most graceful creature of thedas?). Urthemiel was also associated with a beautiful woman, which could very well be Ghilan'nain.

June was the smith of the gods, the high priest of Toth was called the Forgewright of Fire. Not much known about either of these gods.

Andoral was the god of slaves, and we learned of Falon'Din that he sought to amass more and more worshippers to be used as sacrifices for his rituals.

Razikale was the goddess of mysteries, while Sylaise taught the elves about the mysteries of childbirth and medicine.

 

Lusacan is the dragon of night, Elgar'nan created the night.

That's one hell of a correlation to just throw aside. Furthermore, Tevinter stole everything from Arlathan, including architecture, magic, and culture, so why wouldn't they also steal their gods? Especially when there are temples with magic pools that would bind people to those gods' wills?

Except we know for fact that the Tevinter Old Gods are Dragons, and 5 are dead. We also know for fact that Solas is Fen'Harel, and he isn't a dragon. This and a couple other "theories" are just like the Indoctrination theory that people so adamantly convinced themselves of back in the ME2/ME3 days. We saw how that turned out!

[Reznore57]

Except we know for fact that the Tevinter Old Gods are Dragons, and 5 are dead. We also know for fact that Solas is Fen'Harel, and he isn't a dragon. This and a couple other "theories" are just like the Indoctrination theory that people so adamantly convinced themselves of back in the ME2/ME3 days. We saw how that turned out!

 

Yeah but Mythal , an elven Goddess can shapeshift into a dragon.

And there's a couple of tales about some elven gods when they talk about "dark wings " etc...

Also in DA2 she says "Perhaps I am a dragon."

We're still unsure about the true nature of those elven gods and where the hell they are.

 

Solas is a special case in the Pantheon , first in the old elven mosaic , he's shown as a wolf , all the others look like elf.

There's no vallaslin dedicated to him , no chant , no prayer.

Then Dalish tales says he walked among the Creators and the Forgotten Ones.

He also denies his Godhood , he says they weren't Gods .

 

Except well there's statue of him , and all the others were chanting the "We are Gods" tune.

And he's a god of "rebellion" , no tyrants would accept someone saying "be a rebelz it's cool" among their rank without cause.

 

So ...chances are he didn't started as a God , he was probably promoted as a demi god to appease the masses who were starting to question the divinity of their rulers.

[Aulis Vaara]

Except we know for fact that the Tevinter Old Gods are Dragons, and 5 are dead. We also know for fact that Solas is Fen'Harel, and he isn't a dragon. This and a couple other "theories" are just like the Indoctrination theory that people so adamantly convinced themselves of back in the ME2/ME3 days. We saw how that turned out!

 

We know from an inscription in the Temple Of Mythal that the dragon form was reserved for the gods and their chosen. Seriously, all the connective tissues are there, and if it turns out they are NOT connected, then Bioware had better have a more satisfying answer to explain the similarities. "It was all just a coincidence" just isn't a worthwhile answer.

As for the Indoctrination theory... ME3 would've been a far more interesting and worthwhile game if Shepard had been going insane all throughout and at the end could no longer distinguish friend from foe. Would lead to some pretty crazy decisions and some actual sacrifices... do you keep trying despite being insane, or do you kill yourself and hope you've trained your friends well enough to win that fight.

[Zarathiel]

There is only one female Old God: Razikale.

 

Meanwhile, there are 3 female elven gods who got locked away by Solas/Fen'harel: Sylaise, Andruil, and Ghilan'nain.

 

So it follows that the Old Gods =/= the Elven Gods.

[Dai Grepher]

Razikale might not be female. The codices may have been referring to Razikale's high priest(ess).

 

Anyway, I think this all proves that the elves, olds gods, dragons, and birds point to one thing: a dwarf becoming a golem and crushing all pigeons everywhere.

 

Seriously though, Tevinter built its empire on the bones of the elvhen. They merely copied the bits and pieces they could find in the rubble of the fallen and made new (old) gods for themselves based on what they found. So of course some similarities will be present.

[Sunnie]

There is only one female Old God: Razikale.

 

Meanwhile, there are 3 female elven gods who got locked away by Solas/Fen'harel: Sylaise, Andruil, and Ghilan'nain.

 

So it follows that the Old Gods =/= the Elven Gods.

And since 5 Old God dragons are dead, leaving 2 still slumbering, 3 Elven gods being trapped in another somewhere else doesn't add up.

It's IT all over again.

[Avejajed]

I think they are connected as well. Astrariums solidified it for me.

[Aulis Vaara]

There is only one female Old God: Razikale.

Meanwhile, there are 3 female elven gods who got locked away by Solas/Fen'harel: Sylaise, Andruil, and Ghilan'nain.

So it follows that the Old Gods =/= the Elven Gods.

The Old Gods are assumed to be male unless stated otherwise, but this could be complete bullshit. Might even be Andrastean propaganda, or it might just be because the dragon forms look different from the usual female high dragons. Heck, neither the elven gods nor the Old Gods might be gendered and only associated with such by their worshippers.

[Brass_Buckles]

I had a theory once that the Old Gods are not the Elvhen pantheon, but their chosen, who could also take the "divine winged form" and would have reflected similar traits and values to their patron god.

[Yaroub]

The Old Gods are assumed to be male unless stated otherwise, but this could be complete bullshit. Might even be Andrastean propaganda, or it might just be because the dragon forms look different from the usual female high dragons. Heck, neither the elven gods nor the Old Gods might be gendered and only associated with such by their worshippers.

 

It's confirmed that Razikale is a goddess, haven't you played JOH?

 

Edit: http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Razikale.