45 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

"She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom" could be Razikale's high priestess, not Razikale specifically. Each old god had a magister who represented it before the followers and the people. Dumat had Corypheus. Urthemiel had the Architect. Razikale may have had a female magister, and that may be who the codices are referring to. A craving in the Western Approach shows a female holding a horned skull above her head, and a dozen worshipers beneath her.

 

It's possible that "She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom" or perhaps "The Winder of Wisdom" is a title similar to "The Conductor of Silence" or "Architect of the Works of Beauty". If so, and this female is Razikale's high priestess/magister, then it's also possible that she was tainted as the others were and eventually became the first broodmother.

 

The only message that even suggests Razikale might be female is the one regarding the Mouth of Echoes. They talk about hearing "her" voice again. But the voice they heard may have been Razikale's priestess, and they simply never knew that. OR maybe they did know that and that's who they are referring to. Or it's possible that they never actually heard Razikale or the priestess at all, but rather some Fade spirit.

 

In any case, I remember some dialogue from Origins stating that all the old gods were male. I'll have to try to find it again.

[FernRain]

Razikale may have had a female magister, and that may be who the codices are referring to. A craving in the Western Approach shows a female holding a horned skull above her head, and a dozen worshipers beneath her.

 

I'm also curious about this depiction of a religious ceremony to Razikale (note the antlers on the skull):

Spoiler

[Aulis Vaara]

It's confirmed that Razikale is a goddess, haven't you played JOH?

Edit: http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Razikale.

What exactly in my post do you think contradicts that?

[Dai Grepher]

I'm also curious about this depiction of a religious ceremony to Razikale (note the antlers on the skull):

 

 

Yes, that's the depiction I was referring to, and I was also wondering about the antlers. Maybe's its some kind of metaphor about wisdom and knowledge coming from the mind of Razikale.
 

[FernRain]

Yes, that's the depiction I was referring to, and I was also wondering about the antlers. Maybe's its some kind of metaphor about wisdom and knowledge coming from the mind of Razikale.
 

 

And Ghilan'nain .

[Aulis Vaara]

And Ghilan'nain .

You mean Sylaise, surely. Ghilan'nain was the monster maker and the pretty one, Sylaise was the one who taught the elves of weaving, healing, childbirth and such.

[FernRain]

You mean Sylaise, surely. Ghilan'nain was the monster maker and the pretty one, Sylaise was the one who taught the elves of weaving, healing, childbirth and such.

 

Ghilan'nain was the only one associated with antlers (mother of the halla).

[Aulis Vaara]

That does not look like a Halla head... And Halla antlers are very distinctive, there's no way to mistake them for ordinary antlers.

[Arakiel12409]

 

It's possible that "She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom" or perhaps "The Winder of Wisdom" is a title similar to "The Conductor of Silence" or "Architect of the Works of Beauty".

The title that is given to Razikale's High Priest (akin to Conductor of Silence) in the Canticle of Silence is "Augur of Mystery". So this does not quite fit.

 

And the inscription in the Frostback Basin "To She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom, we dedicate this citadel." sounds not like it is dedicated to a priest, more to the God itself.

[FernRain]

That does not look like a Halla head... And Halla antlers are very distinctive, there's no way to mistake them for ordinary antlers.

 

No it doesn't look like a halla head. All I'm comparing are the antlers.

The antlers don't have to look specifically like those belonging to today's halla to connect them to Ghilan'nain. Previously, the halla (or some creation of Ghilan'nain) had 6 legs and wings:

 

 

Also, Ghilan'nain has been represented by these statues that resemble harts:

 

If the Elven Gods = Old Gods theory is true, I think the remaining Razikale and Lusacan = Dirthamen and Falon'din.

 

And if that theory is true, the antlers from the tombstone may correlate with this (the bear represents Dirthamen):

 

[Aulis Vaara]

It's very, very obvious that Dumat is Dirthamen. And there's no evidence that the elves correlated death with night... If any God is connected to night, it's Elgar'nan (he created the night, according to elven mythology).

I'll grant you that it's possible that Razikale is Ghilan'nain (though I wouldn't put her there myself), but Dirthamen is out and Falon'din is most likely Andoral with the whole worshipper abuse thing.

[FernRain]

It's very, very obvious that Dumat is Dirthamen. And there's no evidence that the elves correlated death with night... If any God is connected to night, it's Elgar'nan (he created the night, according to elven mythology).

I'll grant you that it's possible that Razikale is Ghilan'nain (though I wouldn't put her there myself), but Dirthamen is out and Falon'din is most likely Andoral with the whole worshipper abuse thing.

 

I don't think Ghilan'nain is Razikale. If anything I think Razikale is Dirthamen, with the references to Ghilan'nain as his lover (or some relationship).

 

Old God of Mystery seemed to fit in with Dirthamen's nature.

 

Meh, there's many ways to interpret different pairings .

[Zarathiel]

It's very, very obvious that Dumat is Dirthamen. And there's no evidence that the elves correlated death with night... If any God is connected to night, it's Elgar'nan (he created the night, according to elven mythology).

I'll grant you that it's possible that Razikale is Ghilan'nain (though I wouldn't put her there myself), but Dirthamen is out and Falon'din is most likely Andoral with the whole worshipper abuse thing.

 

Not really. If you look at power and position in the pantheon itself, Dumat most closely matches with Elgar'nan. They're both the first and most powerful among their respective pantheons. Sure, their portfolios are completely different, but that's because we're making the tragic mistake of paying attention to Dalish lore, which has been shown repeatedly to be the least reliable source of historical information in Thedas.

 

I still think the Old Gods are more likely the Forgotten Ones, if only because the whole bit about Fen'Harel sealing them in the abyss and the gods in the heavens has been shown to be partially true, and it's vague enough that the Dalish can't screw up the details as badly as they usually do.

[Dai Grepher]

The title that is given to Razikale's High Priest (akin to Conductor of Silence) in the Canticle of Silence is "Augur of Mystery". So this does not quite fit.

 

And the inscription in the Frostback Basin "To She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom, we dedicate this citadel." sounds not like it is dedicated to a priest, more to the God itself.

 

Okay then, Razikale's high priest is the Augur of Mystery. But She Who Winds could be another reference to this high priest anyway.

 

I disagree. One who winds a skein is one who receives (or gathers). I would think Razikale's worshipers would refer to their "god" as one who dispenses wisdom. The one collecting it, as with a skein, would logically be the high priest; the one who speaks on Razikale's behalf.

 

Also, Razikale's temple was in Minrathous, the capital. And a citadel is only used to command those in that area, which was typically the job of the high priests, a.k.a. the magisters.

[Aulis Vaara]

Not really. If you look at power and position in the pantheon itself, Dumat most closely matches with Elgar'nan. They're both the first and most powerful among their respective pantheons. Sure, their portfolios are completely different, but that's because we're making the tragic mistake of paying attention to Dalish lore, which has been shown repeatedly to be the least reliable source of historical information in Thedas.

From another topic:

So, all that would mean that I think Elgar'nan is still alive, as is his body. That means Elgar'nan is NOT Dumat. And he never was. In fact, there are so many hints that Dumat is Dirthamen that anyone who says otherwise just looks like a stubborn mule anymore. Ok, evidence: we visit a temple of Dirthamen in the game. Dirthamen has two ravens, Fear and Deceit, while Corypheus has the service of a Fear demon (the Nightmare) and a Deceit demon (Envy), Envy even helpfully shows up as a raven in his mission. Both Dirthamen and Dumat are built around the theme of Silence. And Dumat was said to be responsible for teaching the Secret of Blood Magic to the ancient Tevinter Magisters.

[rapscallioness]

I suspect that the races all have their own names and stories about "gods" that are actually the same "gods" and story. Time and retelling has changed some of the details, but I don;t think there are elven, dwarf, tevinter, etc gods anymore. I'm beginning to think they are all retellings of the same things.

 

As far as the staues, I can't relly tell from this. There is some bird likeness, but it's hard to tell if it's just masks, or...they have been turning up alot, though. I'd be disappointed if it was not a clue, or just reusing of assets.

[FernRain]

In saying that, I read a codex today about Razikale and silence.. Will have to review it tomorrow.

[rapscallioness]

I hope you post it up when you have the chance.

[FernRain]

Turns out my brain made an incorrect assumption, but here it is:

 

We have found it. Hakkon himself welcomed us. An ancient Tevinter fortress, sheathed in a wall of ice. It was untouched by lowlanders, who could find no way to breach the walls. Our mages alone, blessed by Silent Hakkon with the gifts of ice, could part the wall for a few heartbeats, giving our people time to climb inside.

The wall resists common fire, and even the flames from our mages did little to melt the magical ice. We are safe. The northerner markers lead to a shrine that our mages say reeks of magic. I have sent warriors to guard it, lest it hold some spirit who can part this wall with lowlander magic.

We have found Hakkon, bound in silence where the lowland warrior trapped him for ages uncounted. Our trials have not been in vain. They were a test.

Hakkon will come again.

 

I think I must have made the connection to Razikale because it was in an ancient Tevinter fortress in the Frostback Basin. The only other fortress there I've seen is Razikale's Reach .

 

There's also this note by a campfire:

 

The dragon's power is like none I have ever seen. Possessed by this Avvar god-spirit, it rivals the legendary Archdemon Dumat in its fury.

[rapscallioness]

It is interesting, though, in that this Silent Hakkon taught them of ice magic. And that the Avvar god-spirit possess a dragon for a form.

 

I'm going to have to revisit JoH and pay extra attention to the codex...unless, wait I do have a PT I finished already, but I feel like I've missed things.

 

Fortunately, I have a Lady Cadash who is currently parked in the Stone Keep lodge until I fire up the game again.

 

I'll have to review all the codices I've gathered. Those darn mosaics, though. lol! I have to say, I really feel like the DA team is consciously and purposefully using these items and info. As opposed to something that sounds cool, but leads you on a merry chase.

 

Even in the statues and art. It seems it was incorporated for a reason, not just because it looks cool. I hope so, at any rate.

[FernRain]

What's this about mosaics? The Elven ones?

 

Ever since my first playthrough, I've payed close attention to certain lore .