153 réponses à ce sujet

[Broganisity]

I would argue that it had the best port of any ME game.  The UI was better, and the control scheme actually made sense for a keyboard.

It's always a strange day when Sylvius and I can agree on something.

[Larry-3]

Why do PC players always get the short end of the stick in Mass Effect?

[Amplitudelol]

Here is the problem with a lot of the reasoning I see from these boards is that it feels like a conspiracy theory symposium.  Right now I have to choose from "Multiplayer has been added to the game along with limiting to eight skill slot, therefore multiplayer did it" versus if I remember correctly it was said "they want the player to choose their abilities and not have them all at once".  I will pick BioWare because I see a major hole in the multiplayer reasoning.  In single player there are eight buttons for skills and three for potions, in multiplayer there for four buttons for skills and four for potions.  Do I fully agree with the reason we are being given by BioWare, not really, but it makes more sense to me then what I have seen in these fourms.

The first one just does not stick. If they want you to carefully choose your 8 ability then why can you pause anytime in combat anc change your whole action bar? This lie just does not hold up. Plus there is a third option: 8 is what a controller can comfortably handle in the game and the game got ported to PC with the same interface with this limitation. If Andromeda control has to be "nerfed" like this because of the controller the limitation probably get ported right to PC with kb+m. Thats how they roll nowadays. Console mainstream, cut costs.

[ArabianIGoggles]

Why do PC players always get the short end of the stick in Mass Effect?

Well, we do get the best version of the game in most cases.  

[Sylvius the Mad]

The first one just does not stick. If they want you to carefully choose your 8 ability then why can you pause anytime in combat anc change your whole action bar?

You can't.

Try it. It doesn't work.

[pdusen]

The first one just does not stick. If they want you to carefully choose your 8 ability then why can you pause anytime in combat anc change your whole action bar?

You absolutely cannot do that.

[FKA_Servo]

The first one just does not stick. If they want you to carefully choose your 8 ability then why can you pause anytime in combat anc change your whole action bar? This lie just does not hold up. Plus there is a third option: 8 is what a controller can comfortably handle in the game and the game got ported to PC with the same interface with this limitation. If Andromeda control has to be "nerfed" like this because of the controller the limitation probably get ported right to PC with kb+m. Thats how they roll nowadays. Console mainstream, cut costs.

 

As Sylvius and Pdusen pointed out above me, you definitely cannot do that.

 

I played both DAO and DA2 on Xbox originally, with a gamepad. With those two games, the limitations were even worse- we had access to 6 hotkeys only.

 

You know what though? We could access all our abilities from the circle menu when paused. You know what else? It worked great.

 

Why didn't they do this, at least for the single player, in DAI? Why did they limit the action bars for KBM users when the interface changes up anyway? I truly have no goddamn idea.

 

There are plenty of games that manage to have workable interfaces for both controllers and KBM. It's a lousy place to cut costs - especially when they won't even let modders make a terrific one a la Skyrim's SkyUI.

[Sanunes]

The first one just does not stick. If they want you to carefully choose your 8 ability then why can you pause anytime in combat anc change your whole action bar? This lie just does not hold up. Plus there is a third option: 8 is what a controller can comfortably handle in the game and the game got ported to PC with the same interface with this limitation. If Andromeda control has to be "nerfed" like this because of the controller the limitation probably get ported right to PC with kb+m. Thats how they roll nowadays. Console mainstream, cut costs.

 

As both Sylvius and pdusen have said you cannot use abilities you have not mapped in Inquisition while in combat.  As far as Mass Effect goes I am pretty sure people will be more forgiving considering the hotbar has always been limited to eight abilities for the PC version.  Now with your third option you can have other designs that give you access to all the abilities such as a rotary menu from the first three games.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Here is the problem with a lot of the reasoning I see from these boards is that it feels like a conspiracy theory symposium.  Right now I have to choose from "Multiplayer has been added to the game along with limiting to eight skill slot, therefore multiplayer did it" versus if I remember correctly it was said "they want the player to choose their abilities and not have them all at once".  I will pick BioWare because I see a major hole in the multiplayer reasoning.  In single player there are eight buttons for skills and three for potions, in multiplayer there for four buttons for skills and four for potions.  Do I fully agree with the reason we are being given by BioWare, not really, but it makes more sense to me then what I have seen in these fourms.

 

 

 

And yet, you can somehow say with certainty what aren't the real reasons they did something.

 

 

I'm not saying with certainty, I just don't believe the 'official' reasons for some things they say. You can go ahead and believe anything you like, no skin off my nose.

 

Actually I said there could be lots of reasons. I don't think it's a stretch to say Bioware isn't explaining in detail to the public every decision they make.

 

The take away fact here is that they outright said they based the game play on a multiplayer only game that was never released. This isn't a theory, that's what they said. Personally I believe what they said, because it shows. Whether this decision is good or bad is entirely each players opinion, but facts remain facts.

 

Some have said the 8 hotkeys thing was due to consoles. It isn't. It's due to their game design. Part of their game design included implementing multiplayer. A mode that doesn't really work  with the previous game's play style (party based, pause to set up commands or aoe effects etc). however, the number itself, 8/4 is directly tied to controller since that's how many buttons are available on a controller pad for active abilities. 4 with a shift. If controllers had 5 active ability buttons, we'd be discussing why only 10 hotkey slots.

 

 

When I talked about PR and marketing speak, I mean things like them saying "we don't think you should decide for your companions what they should wear" when justifying the iconic looks in ME2 and DA2. That response is silly and condescending. The real reason was likely they saved some 'zots' by not having to model every suit of armour to every character model.

[Nitrocuban]

If you have the game installed on a SSD what about seamless gameplay with streaming content just as it is needed?

Is that too much to ask for?

[Sanunes]

I'm not saying with certainty, I just don't believe the 'official' reasons for some things they say. You can go ahead and believe anything you like, no skin off my nose.

 

Actually I said there could be lots of reasons. I don't think it's a stretch to say Bioware isn't explaining in detail to the public every decision they make.

 

The take away fact here is that they outright said they based the game play on a multiplayer only game that was never released. This isn't a theory, that's what they said. Personally I believe what they said, because it shows. Whether this decision is good or bad is entirely each players opinion, but facts remain facts.

 

Some have said the 8 hotkeys thing was due to consoles. It isn't. It's due to their game design. Part of their game design included implementing multiplayer. A mode that doesn't really work  with the previous game's play style (party based, pause to set up commands or aoe effects etc). however, the number itself, 8/4 is directly tied to controller since that's how many buttons are available on a controller pad for active abilities. 4 with a shift. If controllers had 5 active ability buttons, we'd be discussing why only 10 hotkey slots.

 

 

When I talked about PR and marketing speak, I mean things like them saying "we don't think you should decide for your companions what they should wear" when justifying the iconic looks in ME2 and DA2. That response is silly and condescending. The real reason was likely they saved some 'zots' by not having to model every suit of armour to every character model.

 

I will never say there are more factors then what BioWare is saying for that is just how life works.  The problem I am having is that people are outright ignoring what BioWare is saying and believe only the theories that other people post.  To me that is just as bad what you are talking about people believing BioWare fully without any critical thinking.

 

I do agree with what you said about character looks, but at the same time do you really want a developer to fully say "because you kept asking for this you can only blame yourselves"? For that would be a PR disaster.

[Rannik]

I expect DICE-levels of quality as far as options go, it's the same engine, there's no excuse.

 

That includes proper support for 4K and a high-res UI to match, full controller support would be cool too.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I will never say there are more factors then what BioWare is saying for that is just how life works.  The problem I am having is that people are outright ignoring what BioWare is saying and believe only the theories that other people post.  To me that is just as bad what you are talking about people believing BioWare fully without any critical thinking.

 

I do agree with what you said about character looks, but at the same time do you really want a developer to fully say "because you kept asking for this you can only blame yourselves"? For that would be a PR disaster.

 

That would be a silly thing for them to say. not only is it a bad PR move, it's not the least bit true. Again, Bioware devs outright said what the real reason behind this decision was. There was a diagram one of the leads posted when ME2 came out detailing the thought processes behind several decisions. It came down to, in several cases, 'people didn't like this so we removed it entirely.'. The ME1 inventory, mako etc were examples of those. The rest followed. No inventory, no gear drops, no gear drops, no armour for companions.

 

About 'outright ignoring what Bioware is saying'.. well the key there would be to be able to distinguish between 'feel good' PR speak and a dev being as open as they are allowed to be. Official announcements tend to be PR speak, while a Bioware dev chatting in  a forum thread may be slightly more candid. Generally what I look for is the more long and technical the quote, the more likely it's closer to the truth.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

As both Sylvius and pdusen have said you cannot use abilities you have not mapped in Inquisition while in combat.  As far as Mass Effect goes I am pretty sure people will be more forgiving considering the hotbar has always been limited to eight abilities for the PC version.  Now with your third option you can have other designs that give you access to all the abilities such as a rotary menu from the first three games.

 

This brings up another good point, and is even on topic, more so than than my previous one

 

The Mass Effect games were already friendly to multiplayer style combat, in ways that Dragon age could not be. ME is a third person shooter, with AI companions that basically do whatever they like with no input from you allowed. Multiplayer being introduced had absolutely no effect on how ME3 was designed, because it didn't need to be. It's possible that DAI is being brought closer to Mass Effect play style as well, for whatever reason.

 

ME was always a console port first as well. Sure, its menus and list boxes behaved like you should be using a controller instead of a mouse, but at least it was consistent in that regard. It didn't try to be both somehow like DAI.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I expect DICE-levels of quality as far as options go, it's the same engine, there's no excuse.

 

That includes proper support for 4K and a high-res UI to match, full controller support would be cool too.

 

I don't think full controller support is going to be in question.

 

 

 

 

The first one just does not stick. If they want you to carefully choose your 8 ability then why can you pause anytime in combat anc change your whole action bar? This lie just does not hold up. Plus there is a third option: 8 is what a controller can comfortably handle in the game and the game got ported to PC with the same interface with this limitation. If Andromeda control has to be "nerfed" like this because of the controller the limitation probably get ported right to PC with kb+m. Thats how they roll nowadays. Console mainstream, cut costs.

 

 

Another possibility to consider is that they wanted more of an action game, rather than pause and play, full team control like in DAO and 2. Read my posts above. Controllers are certainly the answer to 'why 8?' but not the answer to 'why limit them in the first place?'.

[Ahglock]

I don't know while the dragon age team has had controller support I think back to 2 mass effect has never had it.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I don't know while the dragon age team has had controller support I think back to 2 mass effect has never had it.

 

Really? I didn't know that. Odd, since it was plainly a controller port.

[Sanunes]

Really? I didn't know that. Odd, since it was plainly a controller port.

 

Dragon Age: Inquisition is the first BioWare game that I know of that had native controller support for the PC.  BioWare was one of the last developers I purchase games from to adopt a controller for the PC.

[Sanunes]

 

That would be a silly thing for them to say. not only is it a bad PR move, it's not the least bit true. Again, Bioware devs outright said what the real reason behind this decision was. There was a diagram one of the leads posted when ME2 came out detailing the thought processes behind several decisions. It came down to, in several cases, 'people didn't like this so we removed it entirely.'. The ME1 inventory, mako etc were examples of those. The rest followed. No inventory, no gear drops, no gear drops, no armour for companions.

 

About 'outright ignoring what Bioware is saying'.. well the key there would be to be able to distinguish between 'feel good' PR speak and a dev being as open as they are allowed to be. Official announcements tend to be PR speak, while a Bioware dev chatting in  a forum thread may be slightly more candid. Generally what I look for is the more long and technical the quote, the more likely it's closer to the truth.

 

The thing is it seems a lot of people aren't paying attention to what BioWare says for in how many threads does the blame for the limitation of eight skills fall solely on multiplayer and not other possibly bad decisions. The majority of threads I visit that seems to be the case.  Now I will never say it might not have been some factor because I don't work at BioWare and don't have access to their decision process and for all we know there could be another dozen reasons why they made that decision. I just don't think it is a measured response to just blame multiplayer.  It could even have to do with how they balanced the combat of the game for you can't walk into a fight and have all the abilities available to trivialize the content, for I remember in Origins after a certain point the game because so easy because of the amount of skills and sustained abilities I had.

 

This brings up another good point, and is even on topic, more so than than my previous one

 

The Mass Effect games were already friendly to multiplayer style combat, in ways that Dragon age could not be. ME is a third person shooter, with AI companions that basically do whatever they like with no input from you allowed. Multiplayer being introduced had absolutely no effect on how ME3 was designed, because it didn't need to be. It's possible that DAI is being brought closer to Mass Effect play style as well, for whatever reason.

 

ME was always a console port first as well. Sure, its menus and list boxes behaved like you should be using a controller instead of a mouse, but at least it was consistent in that regard. It didn't try to be both somehow like DAI.

 

I do agree that multiplayer fits much better into Mass Effect and I personally prefer how they implement it in Mass Effect 3 for I still play MP there when I have stopped playing it in Inquisition. I am pretty sure if you look you will find people that say that the multiplayer did hurt some elements of how Mass Effect was designed, at least when the game was first released.

Modifié par Sanunes, 29 août 2015 - 12:46 .

[AlanC9]

Another possibility to consider is that they wanted more of an action game, rather than pause and play, full team control like in DAO and 2. Read my posts above. Controllers are certainly the answer to 'why 8?' but not the answer to 'why limit them in the first place?'.

I agree. Bio devs seem to like action combat more than the average forumite. I wouldn't be surprised if the new IP is as actiony as Jade Empire.

[Eralrik]

I want weather it's PC or Console to have player choices actually have an impact on the game world and on your crew weather being really good or extremely bad. Like for instance you can loose crew members and not being scripted losses like if a Thresher Maw grabs a team member and mangles him/her Medigel shouldn't be able to bring this person back, you own up the loss and feel the weight of it when you return to your ship.

 

Impact that has weight and meaning and I want the mini puzzles back for hacking and opening doors, I miss those in ME3 felt like I had less to do and a whole lot less Renegade/Paragon choices.

 

I like action mixed with RP and side puzzles and the chance to actually answer a distress call and rescue people not clear a base where everyone is dead.

[saladinbob]

I want what every PC owner wants from a game. One that pushes my hardware to break a sweat and one that has controls specific to my peripheral of choice (M+KB). However, I don't hold out any hope at all that Bioware will make MEA in any way PC friendly. They proved that with Inquisition. The very fact that their engine of choice is modding unfriendly proves they have only interest in the console and I fully expect the PC version to be bug riddled and unplayable at launch, much the same as Inquisition was. I'm not being cynical, I'm simply disillusioned with Bioware as a PC developer. You simply cannot blatantly lie to your customers and expect them to trust you again after that.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

 

 

 

The thing is it seems a lot of people aren't paying attention to what BioWare says for in how many threads does the blame for the limitation of eight skills fall solely on multiplayer and not other possibly bad decisions. The majority of threads I visit that seems to be the case.  Now I will never say it might not have been some factor because I don't work at BioWare and don't have access to their decision process and for all we know there could be another dozen reasons why they made that decision. I just don't think it is a measured response to just blame multiplayer.  It could even have to do with how they balanced the combat of the game for you can't walk into a fight and have all the abilities available to trivialize the content, for I remember in Origins after a certain point the game because so easy because of the amount of skills and sustained abilities I had.

 

 

I do agree that multiplayer fits much better into Mass Effect and I personally prefer how they implement it in Mass Effect 3 for I still play MP there when I have stopped playing it in Inquisition. I am pretty sure if you look you will find people that say that the multiplayer did hurt some elements of how Mass Effect was designed, at least when the game was first released.

 

 

Actually the most 'blame' I've seen puts it unfairly on consoles, not multiplayer. Until recently I guess.

 

Thing is, it isn't, or shouldn't be, a blame game. It just is, regardless of your feelings on the matter.  In DAI's case, it seems many of the design decisions were to implement multiplayer. We know this is at least a likely cause because we know EA has mandated that multiplayer components must be in every title they fund. Bioware has no choice if they want to keep making games, and staying employed.

 

They also might think flashy action arcade combat where the character flips around and does ridiculous stunts will appeal to more people, and thus sell more games. And it certainly could have been because of combat balancing as you suggest. Or all of the above. Personally, they appear to be taking Dragon Age games in a direction that I'm not interested in, so I'll likely not buy the next one, or at least wait until it's on sale for fairly cheap, if the story sounds good.

 

Back on topic, PC players can likely expect a port similar to ME3's, which is fine. A lot of people had issues with DAI's port, but the ME series has always been like that. They likely won't provide a separate interface that uses the KB&M to it's fullest. They've made it clear that they consider console/controller play to be their focus.

[mickey111]

****.

[countofhell]

Higher detailed textures, living planets and moving sky with real time weather and time flow over 4K resolution. And a stable 30 FPS. nothing more but nothing less.

 

Because Andromeda definetly stays multiplatform and the PC is the lead platform, 4K might be added from Day1 for the high end PC's.

 

However don't be dissapointed if the graphics and resolution going to be much lower as you expect that is going to be because console versions. This happens with many multiplatform games to date, so low end PC's can run MEA.