74 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Actually it is.  And fairly well.  The only ending that adds any real difficulty is synthesis and even that can be handled easily with about as many comments as ME1 background decisions. The easiest solution that fits all endings is you are a group that the end choice effectively misses. I mean really do you actually think every living being got turned into a cyborg, not a single planet was missed, not 1% of 1%, you don't think there might be people hundreds of years in the future on the short end of the control choice where the giant robots of doom are being used on them, or with everything destroyed a group doesn't search for greener pastures. Or if everything has been turned cyborg, every living creature.  All it really needs is a couple comments, what's that you're bleeding it isn't blood?...I heard what you survived on akuze....  I mean seriously you choose that as your ending, the main pc is a cyborg but the synthesis is mostly internal so its now just off comments here and there and codex entries. 

 

There is nothing wrong with things like that, they aren't bad, they make sense, they give credit to the ending choice. The choices would be hard to write off if it was in the same galaxy, but another galaxy a hundred+ years in the future that is easy.  No matter what route they take with this some group is going to be pissed, there really isn't a objectively better option. Its just hope you pick the one that pisses off the least people plan.

 

I guess that's sort of the problem with Synthesis. Its validity hinges on whether or not it affected the entire galaxy. If it failed to do that, then it failed entirely.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Actually it is.  And fairly well.  The only ending that adds any real difficulty is synthesis and even that can be handled easily with about as many comments as ME1 background decisions. The easiest solution that fits all endings is you are a group that the end choice effectively misses. I mean really do you actually think every living being got turned into a cyborg, not a single planet was missed, not 1% of 1%, you don't think there might be people hundreds of years in the future on the short end of the control choice where the giant robots of doom are being used on them, or with everything destroyed a group doesn't search for greener pastures. Or if everything has been turned cyborg, every living creature.  All it really needs is a couple comments, what's that you're bleeding it isn't blood?...I heard what you survived on akuze....  I mean seriously you choose that as your ending, the main pc is a cyborg but the synthesis is mostly internal so its now just off comments here and there and codex entries. 

 

There is nothing wrong with things like that, they aren't bad, they make sense, they give credit to the ending choice. The choices would be hard to write off if it was in the same galaxy, but another galaxy a hundred+ years in the future that is easy.  No matter what route they take with this some group is going to be pissed, there really isn't a objectively better option. Its just hope you pick the one that pisses off the least people plan.

Or just have it that if Synthesis wasn't chosen, the people who go to Andromeda get cybernetic enhancements to help make their likelihood of success and survival better. The lore already has people doing that, like the Quarians. Then if Synthesis is chosen, have the glowing green circuitry be something that faded in time. There, now no matter what ending was picked the results match, at least to an easily manageable amount. 

[Ahglock]

I guess that's sort of the problem with Synthesis. Its validity hinges on whether or not it affected the entire galaxy. If it failed to do that, then it failed entirely.

 

 

I don't know.  I don't think 100% perfect success rate is necessary or even desired in order to make a ending valid. I have no issue with a few Reapers escaping control or destroy options.  I don't see why 1 planet getting missed by Synthesis, or just a random 1% of 1% throughout the galaxy devalues that ending in any way.  Getting every sentient being in the galaxy actually seems more absurd to me that the whole star child ending in the first place.(okay I think synthesis in itself makes no effing sense, it takes space magic way way too far, not that I think destroy is well thought out either)

[Ahglock]

Or just have it that if Synthesis wasn't chosen, the people who go to Andromeda get cybernetic enhancements to help make their likelihood of success and survival better. The lore already has people doing that, like the Quarians. Then if Synthesis is chosen, have the glowing green circuitry be something that faded in time. There, now no matter what ending was picked the results match, at least to an easily manageable amount. 

 

Yeah I would just explain no visible mods was found to be more attractive and effectively bred out. But everyone has some cyborg features works as well just in 2 endings is voluntary mods in 1 ending its synthesis. I just think that might strike people as devaluing their choice a bit more.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah I would just explain no visible mods was found to be more attractive and effectively bred out. But everyone has some cyborg features works as well just in 2 endings is voluntary mods in 1 ending its synthesis. I just think that might strike people as devaluing their choice a bit more.

They could have a few different dialogues referring to the cybernetic enhancements which change if it was because of Synthesis or just an enhancement program for the Pathfinder Initiative. That's no different than how Bioware has acknowledged many other choices in the past.

[AlanC9]

Actually it is. And fairly well. The only ending that adds any real difficulty is synthesis and even that can be handled easily with about as many comments as ME1 background decisions. The easiest solution that fits all endings is you are a group that the end choice effectively misses. I mean really do you actually think every living being got turned into a cyborg, not a single planet was missed, not 1% of 1%, you don't think there might be people hundreds of years in the future on the short end of the control choice where the giant robots of doom are being used on them, or with everything destroyed a group doesn't search for greener pastures. Or if everything has been turned cyborg, every living creature. All it really needs is a couple comments, what's that you're bleeding it isn't blood?...I heard what you survived on akuze.... I mean seriously you choose that as your ending, the main pc is a cyborg but the synthesis is mostly internal so its now just off comments here and there and codex entries.

.

Sounds awful. As near as I can tell you've got the main disadvantage of a canonized backstory -- you're not really carrying over choices -- and then bolting a lack of intellectual integrity in the world development on top of that.

What's the upside? Who is this actually for?

[Sartoz]

 Big Snip

-----------.

 So, yeah, to repeat, in my opinion, Destroy is the best ending for the trilogy on it's own, but Refusal is the best ending for the trilogy going forward into Andromeda.

 

Again, just one man's opinion.

 

                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

This is all water flowing under the bridge.

 

MEA is fresh, new and not another John Wayne western.  Think of it as the equivalent of a General Custer movie. Still a western genre(ie: Mass Effect) but this time we can guide the General to victory.

 

So forget the Milky Way. and look forward to new adventures!

[N7Jamaican]

Wasn't it confirmed that ME:A would take place long after the events of ME3? How long? Wait and see.

[Ahglock]

Sounds awful. As near as I can tell you've got the main disadvantage of a canonized backstory -- you're not really carrying over choices -- and then bolting a lack of intellectual integrity in the world development on top of that.

What's the upside? Who is this actually for?

How is it not carrying over the choices? It very much is carrying over the choices, it's acknowledging them and just like whatever happened 200 years ago in my country it's history and outside of books/codex entries I don't talk about it much. Over playing the choice hundreds of years later when you are a expedition force in another galaxy is what lacks any semblance of intellectual integrity in the world.

[Killroy]

How is it not carrying over the choices? It very much is carrying over the choices, it's acknowledging them and just like whatever happened 200 years ago in my country it's history and outside of books/codex entries I don't talk about it much. Over playing the choice hundreds of years later when you are a expedition force in another galaxy is what lacks any semblance of intellectual integrity in the world.

Do you not talk about that invasion of mile-long sentient ships and their zombie forces 200 years ago any more? You don't even talk about how that soldier used a giant machine to make a magical wave of light turn every living thing into cyborgs?

Glossing over the endings like they're unimportant and merging them into one outcome is stupid, disregards our choices, and is the worst of both worlds.

[von uber]

Why?

We have literally an entire new Galaxy to explore. And figuratively, almost an entire universe.

When Ned Starks was killed, GoT didn't die off because the universe was created to support new stories and new heros.

The Mass Effect universe is similarly situated.

Bioware created a universe to populate. Let's stop trying to force their creativity into a tiny corner of the universe.

Sorry, your analogy with got would only work if after ned was dead, they left all the countries, characters and places behind, went to a completely new continent and then never mentioned the events, peoples and places that led up to ned dying ever again.

[Jay P]

Sorry, your analogy with got would only work if after ned was dead, they left all the countries, characters and places behind, went to a completely new continent and then never mentioned the events, peoples and places that led up to ned dying ever again.

 

That's a fair criticism, but my point is still relevant, even if the analogy was imperfect.

 

"We have literally an entire new Galaxy to explore. And figuratively, almost an entire universe. 

The Mass Effect universe is similarly situated. 

The previous trilogy wasn't a success because of Shepard. 

He doesn't even have a personality or physical characteristics. He isn't even really a he. 

Bioware created a universe to populate. Let's stop trying to force their creativity into a tiny corner of the universe. "

 

There is nothing inherent in Shepard or any of his companions that makes the Mass Effect universe what it is.  And it definitely isn't the Reapers that make the universe compelling.

 

They have created a universe, with it's own laws and species and mechanics, and this universe isn't dependent on Shepard for it's narrative.

[Ahglock]

Do you not talk about that invasion of mile-long sentient ships and their zombie forces 200 years ago any more? You don't even talk about how that soldier used a giant machine to make a magical wave of light turn every living thing into cyborgs?

Glossing over the endings like they're unimportant and merging them into one outcome is stupid, disregards our choices, and is the worst of both worlds.

200 years from now???? Of course I wouldn't be talking about it. No one would. I don't constantly talk about how we dodged a bullet when the allies won WW2. In fact I never talk about it. I learned about it in a book, saw a movie or two, discussed it a bit in class and that's it. To pretend 200 freaking years later people will be discussing this like its trump running for president right now is absurd. Hell in a single lifetime people will stop talking about it. 20 years later people will rarely talk about it. 200 it's history nothing more.

[Han Yolo]

I don't care about when the ark or whatever arrives in Andromeda but I sincerely hope that it will leave the Milky Way before the reaper war ends. Leave the whole endings rubbish out of MEA please. 

[Mystlock]

Everything in Mass Effect Andromeda will be a different story, that much is right. Completely new things and character abounding. The developers didn't want people calling it mass effect 4 if they could help it, too, there were words like that spoken some time ago - how long ago, I forget grahhh but anyway maybe a little information about the fates of shepard's crew, like what obsidian did in fallout new Vegas's dlc? Memorable characters, never forgotten even if centuries have gone by like POW.

[AtreiyaN7]

I kind of think you're wrong and that the devs would definitely have to canonize one of the endings if a return to the Milky Way were to happen within a few centuries.

 

You can't really just ignore the endings when they diverge so widely, and the more time that passes in the Milky Way, the more divergent each version of the Destroy/Refusal/Synthesis/Control Milky Way will become. I know you're saying it'll basically be old hat for the inhabitants, which I'm sure it will be, but players are going to expect to hear some kind of explanation/reference about what happened after ME3 if they go back - especially since a few centuries isn't all that long and because the Reaper War (or whatever you want to call it) was such a  major, major event. Just think about how we still talk about Word War II or the American Civil War, etc.

 

People tend to pay attention and talk about that major world-changing events a lot - for decades and even centuries after the events took place. Also, in the time frame suggested by the OP, the Refusal ending would never work. Let's hypothetically define "a few centuries" as being three hundred years AFTER the destruction of all intelligent life in the Milky Way. There is exactly zero chance that new forms of intelligent life with fully formed societies and shiny new technologies will ever develop within such a short span of time. If you return to the Milky Way a couple hundred years after Refusal, then the smartest creature you find - at best - might be small rodent-like mammals or prosimians (actually, you'd probably be lucky if you even managed to find flatworms - mammalian life is probably too much to hope for).

 

Even a thousand years wouldn't be enough time if you were starting completely from scratch vis-a-vis the development of new intelligent lifeforms. Aside from the fact that Refusal can only work if you're talking hundreds of thousands of years (and I'm being generous there), someone will inevitably be unhappy when they chose ending <x> but end up seeing ending <y> or <z> canonized.

[Jay P]

I mean really do you actually think every living being got turned into a cyborg, not a single planet was missed, not 1% of 1%, 

 

Yes, otherwise, what was the point?  Might as well not even have that option as an ending, since it was effectively not really there anyway.

 

There is nothing wrong with things like that, they aren't bad, they make sense, they give credit to the ending choice. The choices would be hard to write off if it was in the same galaxy, but another galaxy a hundred+ years in the future that is easy.  No matter what route they take with this some group is going to be pissed, there really isn't a objectively better option. Its just hope you pick the one that pisses off the least people plan.

 

No they don't give credit to the various endings.

 

If not everything is synthesized, then the synthesis ending makes no sense (or even less).  It doesn't solve any problem if there is still a division between organics and synthetics.

 

If your goal is to honor the player choices and not destroy them or undermine them to the point of uselessness, then there actually is an objectively better choice: leaving the endings as the player chose them.

 

If you don't care about honoring the player choices, then you can do whatever you want.

[Ahglock]

Yes, otherwise, what was the point? Might as well not even have that option as an ending, since it was effectively not really there anyway.



No they don't give credit to the various endings.

If not everything is synthesized, then the synthesis ending makes no sense (or even less). It doesn't solve any problem if there is still a division between organics and synthetics.

If your goal is to honor the player choices and not destroy them or undermine them to the point of uselessness, then there actually is an objectively better choice: leaving the endings as the player chose them.

If you don't care about honoring the player choices, then you can do whatever you want.

Okay it doesn't honor the endings for 1% of 1% of the player base. Anyone who doesn't think your choice must mean it happens to a insane extreme would understand a tiny portion escaping any of the ending choices does not invalidate their choice and adds story potential. No ending needs to be that absolute the galaxy at large was effected by it and that validates the choice. Requiring an absolute result is not required. If a destroy or control choice player said a single reaper escaped they totally invalidated my choice, I would say the same thing.

[Jay P]

Okay it doesn't honor the endings for 1% of 1% of the player base. Anyone who doesn't think your choice must mean it happens to a insane extreme would understand a tiny portion escaping any of the ending choices does not invalidate their choice and adds story potential. No ending needs to be that absolute the galaxy at large was effected by it and that validates the choice. Requiring an absolute result is not required. If a destroy or control choice player said a single reaper escaped they totally invalidated my choice, I would say the same thing.

 

Sorry friend, I think you are in the 1% and I am in the 99%.

 

The endings speak for themselves.  I can't imagine how anyone could watch them, plus the extended cuts, and the little epilogue scene talking the to the kid, and come away with the idea that it only kind of worked, maybe somewhat, kind of, but not really.

[LoneWolf3905]

Could just use the Red ending, and have it take place 1 or 2 centuries after 3.

[Ahglock]

Sorry friend, I think you are in the 1% and I am in the 99%.

The endings speak for themselves. I can't imagine how anyone could watch them, plus the extended cuts, and the little epilogue scene talking the to the kid, and come away with the idea that it only kind of worked, maybe somewhat, kind of, but not really.

I'm baffled that anyone could see a single reaper escaping as the destroy ending only kind of but not really working. Or have any faith that star brat given its origins is 100% infallible.

[Jay P]

I'm baffled that anyone could see a single reaper escaping as the destroy ending only kind of but not really working. Or have any faith that star brat given its origins is 100% infallible.

 

Because you are choosing to ignore parts of the ending that you don't like.

You don't have to believe starkid.  But the ending shows you what he said was true.

 

The ending showed and told that all the reapers were destroyed.

[Xaijin]

Do you not talk about that invasion of mile-long sentient ships and their zombie forces 200 years ago any more? You don't even talk about how that soldier used a giant machine to make a magical wave of light turn every living thing into cyborgs?

Glossing over the endings like they're unimportant and merging them into one outcome is stupid, disregards our choices, and is the worst of both worlds.

 

Except DX:HR was well received and sold tons of copies.

 

Because it got context and thematics correct.

[Hrulj]

I definitely dont want it to be set between the endings. I dont want the game to be limited at a certain point of time and that character development is cut off/prevented due to other circuimstances. 

If they do that in this game, then that means that every game set in ME universe will be limited in the same way. Freedom, stability and consequences is what is my priority in ME games. Give me a constant crew with which I can relate and create history.

[Killroy]

I definitely dont want it to be set between the endings. I dont want the game to be limited at a certain point of time and that character development is cut off/prevented due to other circuimstances. 

If they do that in this game, then that means that every game set in ME universe will be limited in the same way. Freedom, stability and consequences is what is my priority in ME games. Give me a constant crew with which I can relate and create history.

 

 

...what?