361 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost Gal]

How has this thread NOT been shut down yet? O_o

[GoldenGail3]

How has this thread NOT been shut down yet? O_o

No. But it should be.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I dunno about the hate-on the OP is getting.  Seems very much overboard and knee-jerk.
 
Vivienne is very much the incarnation of an Uncle Tom "House N-----", or what is often called "High Yellow" amongst the black subculture in America.  So yes, she is a stereotype.  Maybe it's not the stereotype that many people immediately think of, but then again most Americans aren't even required to read Uncle Tom's Cabin anymore in schools.  She's a throwback in many ways to an older world.  Her mannerisms however are very much not the rural "Uncle Tom" but the more modern 'white-washed Oreo" that black subculture accusingly detests as sell-outs to the White Establishment.  Either way, she does fit a specific hated stereotype, just not one that White American recognize and disapprove of, but rather a negative stereotype that many actual Blacks in America immediately recognize and disapprove of.

Sad but true.

[Rel Fexive]

Oh, just **** off with this.

[Xilizhra]

1.Angry Black Woman/Sapphire- She's always hostile with anyone she encounters for example when Varric is making a friendly conversation about her not being @ The Conclave tells her that she's lucky she didn't came and she responded only an imbecile calls it lucky in a hostile tone. She displays anger almost on every conversation and always hostile. She always have a nasty additude towards anyone. Why Vivienne has to have a "black woman bad additude"? That strikes me as odd.

I would say that "evil ******" transcends race, personally.

 

 

2.Black Mistress- She's someone's mistress which means that she's nobody but a side chick that a man can use whatever he wants, which describes that she feels like she's worthless and sells herself to a white man to feel like she's important and feels like she's worthy simply because she's insecure about herself. Which roughly translated that black women are nothing but objects not people.

This isn't actually the way it works. It's Bastien's wife who's around for solely material reasons. Vivienne is the one with whom Bastien has a genuine emotional relationship with.

[straykat]

Oh, just **** off with this.

 

Seriously.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I would say that "evil ******" transcends race, personally.
 
 

This isn't actually the way it works. It's Bastien's wife who's around for solely material reasons. Vivienne is the one with whom Bastien has a genuine emotional relationship with.

Sapphire/ Angry Black Woman

http://www.arte-sana...my_sapphire.htm

Black Mistress stereotype

http://mediacommons....ndal-stereotype

[YourFunnyUncle]

Sapphire/ Angry Black Woman

http://www.arte-sana...my_sapphire.htm

Black Mistress stereotype

http://mediacommons....ndal-stereotype

It's ludicrous to try to shoehorn Vivienne into the Sapphire stereotype. Her bitchiness is entirely related to the fact that she feels herself to be socially and/or intellectually superior to just about everyone else in the Inquisition. She's not quick-tempered or angry. She's cold and calculating. Her words are designed to skewer and put people in what she perceives to be their place, which is beneath her.

 

And while she may have used her lover as a stepping-stone to climb the social ladder, she's progressed way beyond the point where she needs his influence. She's a mage who has the ear of the Empress and is accepted in polite society on her own terms. Heck she can even become Divine.

[Battlebloodmage]

 

People are getting offended by everything these days. Remind me of some craps on reddit where people are called homophobic for showing support for gay couples. 

[Serza]

You did not deserve to be a part of the November program, much less a November Seven.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

It's ludicrous to try to shoehorn Vivienne into the Sapphire stereotype. Her bitchiness is entirely related to the fact that she feels herself to be socially and/or intellectually superior to just about everyone else in the Inquisition. She's not quick-tempered or angry. She's cold and calculating. Her words are designed to skewer and put people in what she perceives to be their place, which is beneath her.

And while she may have used her lover as a stepping-stone to climb the social ladder, she's progressed way beyond the point where she needs his influence. She's a mage who has the ear of the Empress and is accepted in polite society on her own terms. Heck she can even become Divine.

If that's not true then why they create her to be a snooty and hostile black woman? Why a black woman has to be angry and want to feel superior over anyone? And the first link explained everything about a Sapphire and Vivienne fits perfectly into that stereotype. She's still a stereotype no matter what you say and I am an African American and I've experienced racial stereotypes of black men and women everyday in the U.S. so of course you can't see how she's a stereotype.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

https://www.youtube....h?v=IKmSEFhrJ-8

People are getting offended by everything these days. Remind me of some craps on reddit where people are called homophobic for showing support for gay couples.

Family Guy is a classic!!!

[In Exile]

If that's not true then why they create her to be a snooty and hostile black woman? Why a black woman has to be angry and want to feel superior over anyone? And the first link explained everything about a Sapphire and Vivienne fits perfectly into that stereotype. She's still a stereotype no matter what you say and I am an African American and I've experienced racial stereotypes of black men and women everyday in the U.S. so of course you can't see how she's a stereotype.

 

Because she was written by Canadians, in Canada, where those same stereotypes don't exist. It's kind of like the Jacob ****-up. It's hard for someone to really catch this stereotype if they aren't part of a culture where it exists, even if the writer (and I don't know if that's true) is actually aware of the stereotype and using it.

[Catilina]

If that's not true then why they create her to be a snooty and hostile black woman? Why a black woman has to be angry and want to feel superior over anyone? And the first link explained everything about a Sapphire and Vivienne fits perfectly into that stereotype. She's still a stereotype no matter what you say and I am an African American and I've experienced racial stereotypes of black men and women everyday in the U.S. so of course you can't see how she's a stereotype.

 

Black stereotype, white stereotype = STEREOTYPE. Simple. And: there are those who do not live in the US ...

I do not understand... What is wrong with Vivienne? I mean, she is snobbish social climber, but ... stereotyp? More than the others?
 

[YourFunnyUncle]

If that's not true then why they create her to be a snooty and hostile black woman? Why a black woman has to be angry and want to feel superior over anyone? She is a stereotype no matter what you say but I am an African American and I've experienced racial stereotypes of black men and women everyday in the U.S. so of course you can't see how she's a stereotype.

She's snooty and hostile because she's an elitist snob, not because she is angry. Where does she ever give the impression that she's angry? She's snooty in the way that the majority of the Orlesian nobility is snooty, because she thinks she's better than everyone else. If she fits a trope it's that of social climber. See particularly the snob and backstabber categories.

 

You are shoe-horning your US-centric real-world trope onto a character who doesn't live in that world, and even then was written by Canadians for a game sold across the globe. You claim to understand the tropes because of your own experience, but I would counter that your real-world bias is stopping you from placing her in her proper context within the game.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Because she was written by Canadians, in Canada, where those same stereotypes don't exist. It's kind of like the Jacob ****-up. It's hard for someone to really catch this stereotype if they aren't part of a culture where it exists, even if the writer (and I don't know if that's true) is actually aware of the stereotype and using it.

I think they know what they're doing they're not stupid.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

She's snooty and hostile because she's an elitist snob, not because he is angry. Where does she ever give the impression that she's angry? She's snooty in the way that the majority of the Orlesian nobility is snooty, because she thinks she's better than everyone else. If she fits a trope it's that of social climber. See particularly the snob and backstabber categories.

You are shoe-horning your US-centric real-world trope onto a character who doesn't live in that world, and even then was written by Canadians for a game sold all over the world. You claim to understand the tropes because of your own experience, but I would counter that your real-world bias is stopping you from placing her in her proper context within in the game.

It is based from my own experience. We're not going to see eye to eye in this issue.

[Catilina]

There was a similar topic (related to Vivienne too). Nicely atrophied (or closed?).

[In Exile]

I think they know what they're doing they're not stupid.

 

It's not about being stupid. How much do you know about Czech stereotypes about the Roma? I'm going to bet, not a whole lot. Because you're not Czech. That doesn't mean you're stupid - it means you don't know a lot about cultural/race issues in a country you didn't grow up in.

 

It's the same with Bioware knowing something about racial stereotypes in the US. I know a bit about them from TV. But our culture and values here are not the same as in the US. 

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

It's not about being stupid. How much do you know about Czech stereotypes about the Roma? I'm going to bet, not a whole lot. Because you're not Czech. That doesn't mean you're stupid - it means you don't know a lot about cultural/race issues in a country you didn't grow up in.

It's the same with Bioware knowing something about racial stereotypes in the US. I know a bit about them from TV. But our culture and values here are not the same as in the US.

Of course I can't point out stereotypes of them because I can't relate to it. But it doesn't change the fact that Vivienne is a stereotype.

[Catilina]

Of course I can't point out stereotypes of them because I can't relate to it. But it doesn't change the fact that Vivienne is a stereotype.

 

No more than any other. Take, for example, Dorian ...

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

No more than any other. Take, for example, Dorian ...

But this isn't about Dorian. It's about Vivienne plays a stereotypical black woman.

[Catilina]

But this isn't about Dorian. It's about Vivienne plays a stereotypical black woman.

 

Ok... I'm done... Black stereotype is problem, white, red, green, pink, etc. stereotype is not? I think: the stereotype is the problem. Not a big problem, but still would better without.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Ok... I'm done... Black stereotype is problem, white, red, green, pink, etc. stereotype is not? I think: the stereotype is the problem. Not a big problem, but still would better whithout.

Bon Voyage!

[Steelcan]

he's clearly grasping at anything that will fulfill this narrative he wants to push