Reminds me of ME2, when Shepard overhears the Turian and Quarian's conversion on Illium inside Eternity
I almost thought it would have led to a side quest, until: "Ahh, excuse me human, private con-ver-sah-shee-un!"
i remember this xD i laughed so much and was like.........
A few months ago when they were asking for feedback I made special mention of my dislike for fetch quests. I asked for side content to be more substantial and less like filler/busy work. My tweets were favourited by staff members, so at the very least they are aware of the concerns people have about them. Hopefully this leads to side quests that are very different than the rather uninspired and downright boring ones that were in DAI. I'd mention a recent game as an example of side quests done right, but enough people have done that I think.
How do you have more fetching in ME3 than you did ME1?
Because the things you fetch in ME1 are all grouped into a few missions rather than ME3's one item per mission? That's all I've got.
ME1 only had a handful of fetch quests, the rest were collections (asari writing, prothean data disks, the minerals, the tags etc).
Seriously, the amount of fetch/collect X amount of Y quests in DA:I have made me stop my second play-through. The regions are great, and the fact they're so large is generally good; the occasion that it is not good is having to walk around the entire thing to collect shards. New DLC, fine, I'll do it, begrudgingly. But with a new character I feel like I have to do it and it's a chore. And considering that the pay off is just loot with no chance for diverging story - not cool.
As for DAI, again DA dev is different than ME dev team. Our previous game from the ME dev team was ME3, which is very different from DAI. So we really, honestly cannot jump to this great point about the greater direction of Bioware as it is nothing more than fan conjuncture at the moment and can't be really debated with any kinds of facts.
Yes, they are two different teams, but like I already said, it's the company as a whole heading in that direction. ALL the devs, everyone who works on DA and everyone who works on ME, answer to the same people at the top. Plus it's a little naive to think that what one franchise does won't have any affect at all on the other. Inquisition was hugely influenced by titles not even owned by EA. That's how business works, fortunately and unfortunately.
Although the Andromeda devs said they'd be drawing more inspiration from the original ME trilogy than Inquisition, our concerns are still not unreasonable. Shallow open worlds focused on "exploration" and empty fetch quests are industry trends right now, and EA has already shown us they aren't immune to that. I mean, it's friggin' EA.
If you went back and read what we're really saying, you'd see that no one was attacking ME3. We were just poking fun at how the fetch quests were done in it...not that there were fetch quests at all. ME3 is actually my favorite of the trilogy--and thems lynching words around these parts.
Seriously, the amount of fetch/collect X amount of Y quests in DA:I have made me stop my second play-through. The regions are great, and the fact they're so large is generally good; the occasion that it is not good is having to walk around the entire thing to collect shards. New DLC, fine, I'll do it, begrudgingly. But with a new character I feel like I have to do it and it's a chore. And considering that the pay off is just loot with no chance for diverging story - not cool.
It's seriously absurd how much of it is in the game. It's like they were testing the waters for a Dragon Age MMO or something. I skipped a lot of it on my replay and it still felt unreasonable to me. I haven't bought Jaws or Descent. I love Dragon Age, but I'm not interested in more of the same from Inquisition. I will buy the major story DLC, whilst crossing my fingers it's full of plot and character development, but that's it.
BioWare should probably hire quest designers from CD Projekt...
Seriously though, I agree with the OP completely.
ME1 only had a handful of fetch quests, the rest were collections (asari writing, prothean data disks, the minerals, the tags etc).
Isn't that pretty much a semantic difference? Both function the same, requiring the player to go to a location and get something with a click of a button. The main difference is that in ME1 it was actually even more demanding since some of the stuff was on planets, making collecting them a larger hassle, and ME3 again reacted to a single fetch in some manner? And is the argument here collection quests are just the awesomeness, but fetch quests are a blight upon games?
Yes, they are two different teams, but like I already said, it's the company as a whole heading in that direction. ALL the devs, everyone who works on DA and everyone who works on ME, answer to the same people at the top. Plus it's a little naive to think that what one franchise does won't have any affect at all on the other. Inquisition was hugely influenced by titles not even owned by EA. That's how business works, fortunately and unfortunately.
Although the Andromeda devs said they'd be drawing more inspiration from the original ME trilogy than Inquisition, our concerns are still not unreasonable. Shallow open worlds focused on "exploration" and empty fetch quests are industry trends right now, and EA has already shown us they aren't immune to that. I mean, it's friggin' EA.
If you went back and read what we're really saying, you'd see that no one was attacking ME3. We were just poking fun at how the fetch quests were done in it...not that there were fetch quests at all. ME3 is actually my favorite of the trilogy--and thems lynching words around these parts.
Oh, I didn't realize this was an EA argument. So do you actually have any dev statements from either DA or ME teams which indicates that EA is forcing them to adapt elements from other games in to them? Especially considering the multitude of times I've seen the ME team making the point that they are separate team from the DA team and their focuses are different? Or is this an argument that since it is EA, everyone should just accept all negative thoughts about them as fact?
And yeah, I realize my response there is somewhat snarky, but you haven't actually provided any factual statement indicating that the exploration theme will be handled in the similar manner in ME than it was done in DAI. You might dislike EA and thus have concern, but you can't use that feeling as evidence in an argument, especially while quoting devs at the same time making a contradictory statement.
As for ME3 defending/bashing, I don't quite get why you keep bringing that up as I've only discussed fetch quests done in the context of ME games so far instead of going on full defense of ME3, seeing as the OP and you brought ME3 as the example of too many fetch quests and my counterargument was that it actually had less fetching than ME1 based on pure numbers. An argument you kind of ignored here.
Oh, I didn't realize this was an EA argument. So do you actually have any dev statements from either DA or ME teams which indicates that EA is forcing them to adapt elements from other games in to them? Especially considering the multitude of times I've seen the ME team making the point that they are separate team from the DA team and their focuses are different? Or is this an argument that since it is EA, everyone should just accept all negative thoughts about them as fact?
And yeah, I realize my response there is somewhat snarky, but you haven't actually provided any factual statement indicating that the exploration theme will be handled in the similar manner in ME than it was done in DAI. You might dislike EA and thus have concern, but you can't use that feeling as evidence in an argument, especially while quoting devs at the same time making a contradictory statement.
As for ME3 defending/bashing, I don't quite get why you keep bringing that up as I've only discussed fetch quests done in the context of ME games so far instead of going on full defense of ME3, seeing as the OP and you brought ME3 as the example of too many fetch quests and my counterargument was that it actually had less fetching than ME1 based on pure numbers. An argument you kind of ignored here.
1.) EA is a business. The business people are in control. As a business, they will go where they think the money is. No where did I say anything negative about EA.
2.) Nearly EVERYTHING on this board is hypothetical. We have very little information on MEA save that it will take place in the Andromeda galaxy, have a Mako, and be focused on exploration. That's it. It's completely understandable for people to compare it to the past ME games or other games of the same genre or theme (exploration), or discuss what they would or wouldn't like to see in it. If that's a problem for you, you should probably return once it's actually released.
3.) I don't keep bringing up ME3 defending/bashing. I literally mentioned it once. I ignored your "counterargument" because it seemed like you didn't actually read what I (or anyone else) wrote, and because others have already answered it for me.
You seem to be going out of your way to be difficult and argumentative here, and I'm not interested in that. I'm on this board to talk about Mass Effect because I love it, my hopes and worries for Andromeda because I'm excited for it, and to high five others who also prioritize story and lore. That's it. This topic is about substance over shallow content (like fetch quests), which is the only reason why we were discussing how it was done in the past ME games in the first place.
i remember this xD i laughed so much and was like.........
Haha! At first I was like
and then I realized I was the weirdo lurking in the shadows to listen to their private conversation.
According to the ME3 guide, there 20 Citadel fetch quests which require you to find something and bring it back to someone. If we add to this just random stuff you can find, it mounts to 35 things you need to find. Each of these is a single thing you need to find, so you have technically 35 fetches here.
Now in ME1 the Prothean data disc quest requires you to fetch 7 discs, the Turian insignia quest requires you to find 13 insignias, Asari writing quest requires you to find 10 slates and the Salarian battle quest requires you to find 13 items. Those summed together are 43 things you need to fetch in order to complete those quests with the quest lacking really true dialogue or reaction when given or finished. And as you may have noticed, I didn't even include the mineral extraction there or hunting down the Citadel keepers. So how is my math wrong here? How do you have more fetching in ME3 than you did ME1?
As for DAI, again DA dev is different than ME dev team. Our previous game from the ME dev team was ME3, which is very different from DAI. So we really, honestly cannot jump to this great point about the greater direction of Bioware as it is nothing more than fan conjuncture at the moment and can't be really debated with any kinds of facts.
That's because my all fetch quests are created equal.
There are about four different variety of fetch quests, each with a different impact on the average player and cause differing levels of aggravation, but also internal motivation for completion.
1. Zone exploration fetch quests:
These are fetch quests that encourage exploration of a given zone. For instance, DA:I had three separate ones: the monuments, zone exploration/unlocking and the shards.
The internal motivation for these is medium, and they tend to be tolerable. The biggest objection is when they are duplicative are unnecessarily difficult.
There was absolutely no reason for DA:I to have three of these. One would be sufficient.
Furthermore, the level of difficulty should be low. They are used to encourage exploration, there doesn't need to be complicated, platform like jumping puzzles.
Overall, they are not really that objectionable, unless unnecessarily difficult or duplicative.
2. Game wide collection fetch quests:
A good example of these is the bottle collection in DA:I.
There are really fetch quests, but often get included in the category. They normally have no connection with the main plot, or the zone plot, and are closer to easter eggs.
The average player has low internal motivation to complete them, and they tend to be well tolerated and often simply ignored.
Overall, these are not really objectionable, and a nice way to include obscure lore that doesn't really impact the game at hand.
3. Fetch quests related to the main plot or the zone plot:
Most zones have an overarching zone plot. They did a pretty good job with this in the Old Republic. Each planet you landed on advanced the main story, but there was also an overarching planet plot, as well as some random fetch quests.
For example, on one of the planets for the Old Republic, your main plot took you to a planet overrun by zombie like creatures. You advanced the main plot, but also could work on the planet plot, which was finding the source of the zombies and finding a cure.
While working on the main plot and the planet plot, there were additional side quests that supplemented these two.
The important thing about these fetch quests is that they are:
A. Thematically linked to the zone plot or main plot: for instances, one of the fetch quests was to get certain farming items that had to be abandoned when the zombies overran the old town. It wasn't part of the main quest or zone quest (cure the zombie infection), but it related to it in the story.
B. Have you traveling to, if not the exact same are, an adjacent area. Nothing more annoying then running all over the map repeatedly to complete one or two quests, constantly backtracking.
These are the best type of fetch quests. They expand the story-telling, they make the universe more real, they make you feel like you are accomplishing things, and of course they do the traditional game mechanic things of giving you a goal and ways to gain experience points, as well as being a timesink.
Overall, these are the best tolerated quests and give the developers enhanced opportunities for story telling and varying degrees of difficulties.
4. Random Fetch quests:
And finally, we have the worst type of fetch quests. The basic busy quests. They are typically unrelated to either the main plot or the zone story, thought they often take you to the same places. They are also often silly.
Sadly, DA:I was full of these. "Go find my goat. Why? Just because he is missing." "Please place these flowers on the grave. Why? Because I'm old."
These are lost opportunities to make the game universe feel real. They are simply busywork.
They are what players object to the most as they don't fit thematically with the game and they are easily seen as what they are: a way to give the player something to do.
People object to ME3 side quests more than ME1 or ME2 because they "feel" more like random fetch quests than the prior games.
There may actually be more in the prior games, but the impact on the player felt less.
I would posit a fifth type of fetch quest that ME could have really used to their advantage:
World Building or Immersive Fetch Quests
Quests where going around finding items helps flesh out underdeveloped aspects of the lore and world. Use the process of fetching to open up reasons for exposition. Much better than a codex-based exposition dump. The Citadel fetch quests in question could have used this greatly, expanding upon the religions and values of the races as you go around fishing for their trinkets.
A batarian preacher needs the Pillars of Strength to improve his people's morale. Awesome. What do they do? What do the batarians believe in? How old were the Pillars? What's their backstory? Where are they kept? How do they influence the people? Unfortunately, we got nothing. It was a missed opportunity.
I would posit a fifth type of fetch quest that ME could have really used to their advantage:
World Building or Immersive Fetch Quests
Quests where going around finding items helps flesh out underdeveloped aspects of the lore and world. Use the process of fetching to open up reasons for exposition. Much better than a codex-based exposition dump. The Citadel fetch quests in question could have used this greatly, expanding upon the religions and values of the races as you go around fishing for their trinkets.
A batarian preacher needs the Pillars of Strength to improve his people's morale. Awesome. What do they do? What do the batarians believe in? How old were the Pillars? What's their backstory? Where are they kept? How do they influence the people? Unfortunately, we got nothing. It was a missed opportunity.
This is a good point.
A fifth category should have definitely been included. Compilation Fetch quests that create their own side story. Where one side fetch quests fleshes out the story and leads to additional quests. Have the same purpose of the Main story/Zone story related fetch quests, but without being dependent on the main story/zone story.
They just need some more story telling to make them something other than "Go find my goat" or "I'm old, please place these flowers on a grave."
A few months ago when they were asking for feedback I made special mention of my dislike for fetch quests. I asked for side content to be more substantial and less like filler/busy work. My tweets were favourited by staff members, so at the very least they are aware of the concerns people have about them. Hopefully this leads to side quests that are very different than the rather uninspired and downright boring ones that were in DAI. I'd mention a recent game as an example of side quests done right, but enough people have done that I think.
<<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>
Many, including myself have mentioned TW3.
I would posit a fifth type of fetch quest that ME could have really used to their advantage:
World Building or Immersive Fetch Quests
Quests where going around finding items helps flesh out underdeveloped aspects of the lore and world. Use the process of fetching to open up reasons for exposition. Much better than a codex-based exposition dump. The Citadel fetch quests in question could have used this greatly, expanding upon the religions and values of the races as you go around fishing for their trinkets.
A batarian preacher needs the Pillars of Strength to improve his people's morale. Awesome. What do they do? What do the batarians believe in? How old were the Pillars? What's their backstory? Where are they kept? How do they influence the people? Unfortunately, we got nothing. It was a missed opportunity.
I would argue it isn't a missed opportunity rather than a resource investment question. This is an argument I see often which somewhat confuses me as it indicates fetch quests would be better if they had more scenes/dialogue associated with them. However, at that point they are not really fetch quests anymore, but rather proper side quests which have a larger resource investment in them. And it is, at least for me, very questionable to assume that if we gave up fetch quests we would get these kinds of missions instead of them.
Besides the game does give some of the story on the pillars, but doesn't do an info dump on them, that is true. However, I do not really know what that info dump would help as instead of being a small errant task it would then suddenly have a large amount of information dumped on the player which I do not necessarily personally prefer.
They are what players object to the most as they don't fit thematically with the game and they are easily seen as what they are: a way to give the player something to do.
People object to ME3 side quests more than ME1 or ME2 because they "feel" more like random fetch quests than the prior games.
There may actually be more in the prior games, but the impact on the player felt less.
I must begin by honesty, as when I read your reply I was initially confused for two reasons. First, all of your examples when discussing fetch quests in the context of ME came from DAI, yet concluded in a point about ME3. Second, the comment you were responding was in turn a response to the statement that ME3 had more fetch quests than ME1. Not did the poster feel that ME3 had more fetch quests than ME1, but that there was factually less of it in ME1, with the number division trying to point that ME1 does have factually more fetching in it than ME3 by a quite big margin. I would furthermore argue that the actual time sink required to complete the fetch quests in ME1 was also much larger than required in ME3. How people feel about the fetch quests is a separate issue, for example I can say quite honestly that for me the ME3 fetch quests were much more pleasant than the grind that was ME1 fetch quests or ME2 resource hunting.
To actually go to your division, I would also point out that ME1 only has fetch quests of first type, which you yourself refer to as tedium, and it actually has two of them relating to the same exploration region: item collection and resource hunting. While all ME3 fetch quests are of the third category, which you yourself in the text classified as the best kind of fetch quests.
Again, it is fair to argue against ME3 fetch quests if one personally doesn't like them. My whole response was, and still is, against this concept that ME3 somehow had more fetch quests or that they were more tedious by design, as I don't consider either really factually true. And I will be honest that I would rather see fetch quests like in ME3 in MEA instead of those from ME1/2 which was just pretty much grinding through stuff.
You seem to be going out of your way to be difficult and argumentative here, and I'm not interested in that. I'm on this board to talk about Mass Effect because I love it, my hopes and worries for Andromeda because I'm excited for it, and to high five others who also prioritize story and lore. That's it. This topic is about substance over shallow content (like fetch quests), which is the only reason why we were discussing how it was done in the past ME games in the first place.
I thought I was simply disagreeing with you and confused by your statements, hence I guess we both feel the same way about each other. I will, however, simply mention I do find certain amusement in the declaration about how I am difficult in a discussion how past ME games have done things when one of things I argued was that we shouldn't use DAI as the basis of the discussion as it was done by a different development team.
As for the general discussion, my very first statement in this discussion was that the very question is somewhat loaded as everyone would like to have deeper content, but would also require a lot more resources. Thus removing the shallow content would likely not result in an increased amount of deeper content, but rather just removal of that said content. Hence the question becomes what is the best method for having those fetch quests, where I would prefer something akin to the ME3 fetch quests instead of never-ending grind of the ME1/2 fetch quests.
I thought I was simply disagreeing with you and confused by your statements, hence I guess we both feel the same way about each other. I will, however, simply mention I do find certain amusement in the declaration about how I am difficult in a discussion how past ME games have done things when one of things I argued was that we shouldn't use DAI as the basis of the discussion as it was done by a different development team.
As for the general discussion, my very first statement in this discussion was that the very question is somewhat loaded as everyone would like to have deeper content, but would also require a lot more resources. Thus removing the shallow content would likely not result in an increased amount of deeper content, but rather just removal of that said content. Hence the question becomes what is the best method for having those fetch quests, where I would prefer something akin to the ME3 fetch quests instead of never-ending grind of the ME1/2 fetch quests.
I must begin by honesty, as when I read your reply I was initially confused for two reasons. First, all of your examples when discussing fetch quests in the context of ME came from DAI, yet concluded in a point about ME3.
It's just been awhile since I played ME3. DA:I is fresh in my mind, despite them having different development teams.
Second, the comment you were responding was in turn a response to the statement that ME3 had more fetch quests than ME1. Not did the poster feel that ME3 had more fetch quests than ME1, but that there was factually less of it in ME1, with the number division trying to point that ME1 does have factually more fetching in it than ME3 by a quite big margin. I would furthermore argue that the actual time sink required to complete the fetch quests in ME1 was also much larger than required in ME3.
To actually go to your division, I would also point out that ME1 only has fetch quests of first type, which you yourself refer to as tedium, and it actually has two of them relating to the same exploration region: item collection and resource hunting. While all ME3 fetch quests are of the third category, which you yourself in the text classified as the best kind of fetch quests.
How people feel about the fetch quests is a separate issue, for example I can say quite honestly that for me the ME3 fetch quests were much more pleasant than the grind that was ME1 fetch quests or ME2 resource hunting.
...
Again, it is fair to argue against ME3 fetch quests if one personally doesn't like them. My whole response was, and still is, against this concept that ME3 somehow had more fetch quests or that they were more tedious by design, as I don't consider either really factually true. And I will be honest that I would rather see fetch quests like in ME3 in MEA instead of those from ME1/2 which was just pretty much grinding through stuff.
The big advantage that ME1's collection quests had over ME3's fetchs quests was that they were vastly less intrusive, firstly there was absolutly no obligation in doing any collection quest other than wanting monetary gains and experiance rewards, both which can been achieved easily in other ways as well. Secondly ME1's quests did not clog up the journal in such an annoying manner and lastly ME1 had the advantage of the superior galaxy map interface, no worrying about fuel, or that stupid reaper minigame, just point and click.
Another thing was that ME3 had proportionally much more fetch quests than ME1, which had over two-dozen UNC quests and around twenty citadel assignments. Compare that to ME3 that had eight well designed that side missions, six missions based on re-used multiplayer maps and under ten assignments that took place exclusively on the citadel (and thus did not involve fetch questing).
Isn't that pretty much a semantic difference? Both function the same, requiring the player to go to a location and get something with a click of a button. The main difference is that in ME1 it was actually even more demanding since some of the stuff was on planets, making collecting them a larger hassle, and ME3 again reacted to a single fetch in some manner? And is the argument here collection quests are just the awesomeness, but fetch quests are a blight upon games?
No, collection quests suck most of the time. They aren't fetch quests in the sense that you have go out, find that one thing and bring it back, they are more a counter of things.
The Bottles of Thedas collection quest was one of the worst examples because each bottle was unique. The ME1 versions were all about the same sort of object and there were more than you needed and you didn't go out of your way to obtain them, you could complete them while doing the main/side missions. Even if you missed a few or didn't feel like unlocking that hidden crate on the other side of the map, you would still be able to complete it.
I've played through ME1 over a dozen times and I always completed all collections long before the finale. I never had to go and look for them or had to google all the locations.
So, collection quests are okay if you can complete them without deviating from your path. They are a bonus for paying attention to your surroundings. They are frustrating annoyances otherwise.
A few months ago when they were asking for feedback I made special mention of my dislike for fetch quests. I asked for side content to be more substantial and less like filler/busy work. My tweets were favourited by staff members, so at the very least they are aware of the concerns people have about them. Hopefully this leads to side quests that are very different than the rather uninspired and downright boring ones that were in DAI. I'd mention a recent game as an example of side quests done right, but enough people have done that I think.
So glad they at least noticed! 
i have high hopes for ME:A, i just hope i dont get disappointed
Haha! At first I was like
and then I realized I was the weirdo lurking in the shadows to listen to their private conversation.
shepard was like =
''come here i just wanted to help'' xDDD
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