106 réponses à ce sujet

[Lvl20DM]

ME3 had really good side quests, I thought. The missions where you rescue those students or the ex-Cerberus scientists are good examples. ME2, as was pointed out, was almost all side quests (if you think of the loyalty missions as side quests). ME1 had some good ones too, though I found the "uncharted planet" stuff largely irritating (because I didn't like the Mako).

 

DA:I actually had good ones, too, but you can tell that most players found themselves irritated by all the bad ones. Delivering flowers to a grave - bad. Helping Cole deal with the trauma that created him - good. I think that Inquisition actually hurt itself by loading in so much uninspired content. The game would have actually been better if they hadn't put some of that stuff in at all (less really being more), at least in my opinion.

[ebevan91]

I'm hoping that CDPR set a new standard for sidquests in RPGs after The Wild Hunt. 

 

I don't mind a FEW fetch-quests, especially if they're used for a quick XP/cash-grab, but in DAI and maybe even ME3, the fetch quests outnumbered the main quests and even some other side quests/loyalty missions.

[Aesa]

ME3 had really good side quests, I thought. The missions where you rescue those students or the ex-Cerberus scientists are good examples. ME2, as was pointed out, was almost all side quests (if you think of the loyalty missions as side quests). ME1 had some good ones too, though I found the "uncharted planet" stuff largely irritating (because I didn't like the Mako).

 

DA:I actually had good ones, too, but you can tell that most players found themselves irritated by all the bad ones. Delivering flowers to a grave - bad. Helping Cole deal with the trauma that created him - good. I think that Inquisition actually hurt itself by loading in so much uninspired content. The game would have actually been better if they hadn't put some of that stuff in at all (less really being more), at least in my opinion.

 

Yes, less > more. The amount of inconsequential content shoved into DAI was so much, and so overwhelming, that it made the real quests feel insignificant and small, and it dampened my overall enjoyment of the game.

 

ME3 is quite lengthy if you own all the DLC and yet I never find myself sighing in exasperation or getting bored when I play it, because they didn't stuff in a bunch of meaningless content to boast that they had over 200 hours of gameplay.

[Amfortas]

I personally would like to see something like ME1's sidequests, explore, find a quest, get a little side story. Quests in ME2 and 3 were more elaborate and better I guess, but they totally lost that sense of discovery you had in the first one, when you would come across something interesting while exploring and didn't know what you were going to face. But I loved the mako and the barren planets, so I guess that's just my weird opinion.

 

Just no spying on other people's conversations please. I don't mind a few fetch quests that encourage searching around an area more carefully, but they should have a proper quest giver.

[Aesa]

Just no spying on other people's conversations please. I don't mind a few fetch quests that encourage searching around an area more carefully, but they should have a proper quest giver.

 

I'll be really sneaky. They'll never notice me. I'll do their quest whether they like it or not!

 

 

I personally would like to see something like ME1's sidequests, explore, find a quest, get a little side story. Quests in ME2 and 3 were more elaborate and better I guess, but they totally lost that sense of discovery you had in the first one, when you would come across something interesting while exploring and didn't know what you were going to face. But I loved the mako and the barren planets, so I guess that's just my weird opinion.

 

By side quests I assume you're not referring to the "drive around and collect 84 asari whatevers" but rather the ones where you go into bunkers, uncover some lore, etc, right? Finding those types of things would be exciting while exploring in Andromeda. Finding a bunch of random salarian doohickeys that tell us nothing about their culture or the ME universe, however, not so much.

[Mercyva]

I'm hoping that CDPR set a new standard for sidquests in RPGs after The Wild Hunt. 

 

I don't mind a FEW fetch-quests, especially if they're used for a quick XP/cash-grab, but in DAI and maybe even ME3, the fetch quests outnumbered the main quests and even some other side quests/loyalty missions.

 

 

yes! i think DCPR did an amazing job. they used their BIG areas wisely. i did not feel like i was wasting my time doing any mission! thats how you make it... i wont look at RPG's the same now. since the witcher, i have high standard of what to expect when playing an RPG in this day and age

[Mercyva]

I personally would like to see something like ME1's sidequests, explore, find a quest, get a little side story. Quests in ME2 and 3 were more elaborate and better I guess, but they totally lost that sense of discovery you had in the first one, when you would come across something interesting while exploring and didn't know what you were going to face. But I loved the mako and the barren planets, so I guess that's just my weird opinion.

 

Just no spying on other people's conversations please. I don't mind a few fetch quests that encourage searching around an area more carefully, but they should have a proper quest giver.

 

 

i think thats what we should expect, i think ME1 was, at that time.. like the witcher is, at least to me, now. they did move the genre forward! i think ME:A have a BIG chance to compete with the witcher.. or even any RPG that its out now...

[Linkenski]

ME1 on average was 20 hours long for me in most playthroughs. I'd much rather have 12 really memorable side quests than 200 fetch quests and 80 hours of game-time.

 

Less is more, and in my experience bigger =/= better

[DuskWanderer]

I second the idea of slightly longer side quests with no fetching involved. Missions similar to ME3's Dr. Cole mission, or the Han'Gerrel mission. Long enough to get involved, and with a reward at the end.

 

I'd also like the missions to have different effects, such as a mission on an acid rain planet that degrades your shields, or a world that requires you only to use powers. 

[N7_Salohcin]

i remember this xD i laughed so much and was like.........

 

 

 

 

Haha! At first I was like

 

 

and then I realized I was the weirdo lurking in the shadows to listen to their private conversation.

 

 

shepard was like =

 

 

 

 

''come here i just wanted to help'' xDDD

 

Ok, its gone on for too long already: we must see it again



This is how sidequests should start in ME:A

[wolfhowwl]

Scrap the traditional model altogether and instead fold the resources into the campaign for optional objectives during missions and additional reactivity for the story.

[Mercyva]

ME1 on average was 20 hours long for me in most playthroughs. I'd much rather have 12 really memorable side quests than 200 fetch quests and 80 hours of game-time.

 

Less is more, and in my experience bigger =/= better

 

 

i try to put 100% in every game i play, thats why i dont do ''2nd runs'' or whatever that would mean, so ME1 took me nearly 30hrs and i did every single thing there's to do xD, surprisingly i did enjoy it for a game thats been out for nearly 7+ yrs! i think we need the same kind of quality that ME1 had... and i really dont mind fetch qiuets that much, i just HATE when they use them as a way for us to ''explore'' more... i'd rather run around the whole map tracking a legit mission than doing that to cellect stuff or whatever that is i need to get, its how i think anyway.. , and in my mind the witcher did make this work.. they used legit side quest as a way for us to explore a map fully, i like when its used in that way.

[Mercyva]

Ok, its gone on for too long already: we must see it again



This is how sidequests should start in ME:A

 

 

In my mind, its bioware realizing how WRONG this was xDD it gets me everytimeee 

 

welcome to my world, shepard. 

 

 

 

''DEAL WITH IT!'' 

[Ahglock]

I want a series of side quests based on DANGER 5

[Mercyva]

Scrap the traditional model altogether and instead fold the resources into the campaign for optional objectives during missions and additional reactivity for the story.

 

 

Personally i like side quests.. its a way for me to focus on something other than ''i gotta save the galaxy'' for example. plus i like that side quests take less (it depends) time mostly to complete, plus i think its an awesome way to include lore or to explore more in that world aside from being a hero.. i like them! if they are done right that of course

[AlanC9]

Scrap the traditional model altogether and instead fold the resources into the campaign for optional objectives during missions and additional reactivity for the story.

Works for me. Note that in the ME games this would have resulted in a galaxy map something like KotOR's

[N7_Salohcin]

In my mind, its bioware realizing how WRONG this was xDD it gets me everytimeee 

 

welcome to my world, shepard. 

 

 

 

''DEAL WITH IT!'' 

 

[Hiemoth]

Obviously, much of what we are discussing comes down to subjective experience.  

 

And I wholeheartedly agree with you, the resource grinding in ME1 and especially ME2 was not fun and hopefully will not be included.  (Especially since you really could have people doing it for you.  Setup a base on a new planet which automatically gives you resources).

 

However, I tend to remember many of the fetch quests in ME3 being unconnected, busy work that didn't impact the plot of the main story or the area.

 

And I know you want to limit the conversation to ME3, but I think the best examples of this are The Old Republic and Dragon Age: Inquisition.

 

The Old Republic is by no means a perfect game, but the questing structure had a very good narrative flow to it.  

 

Each planet you landed on furthered your main story, but also had a planetary story arc.  All of the side quests (many of which were generic fetch quests) were designed with this narrative in mind and furthered established the world.

 

DA:I did none of that.  (Ok, that's an exaggeration, some zones were much worse than others).  You went into a zone, and there was some narrative arc to the zone, but for the most part, all of the side quests were just unrelated.  Race on these horses.  Place flowers on this grave.  Find my goat.  Find these random Grey Warden artifacts. etc.

 

I am hoping they just spend more time making the fetch quests fit into the world, rather than just creating random ones to inflate playtimes. 

 

 

First, I would say that the difference between presented categories 3 and 4 is very difficulty to objectively define at times, with ME3 being one of those cases. While majority of the fetch quests didn't directly tie in to missions, for me they tied to the general theme of the game. The whole galactic civilization is collapsing due to an assault from an unstoppable and unrelenting foe and all of these people are just trying to hold it together, with most of the fetch quests reflecting this while speaking of different values and cultures. The Volus trying to remind his people of the need for mercy and compassion at a time like this, the night club trying to find ways to keep their electricity running while flooded with refugees, the Batarian preacher speaking of his people's need to remember their strength. For me, they all speak to the larger story and thus are category three. To someone, they fail at that and are category four. Based on that, what is our standard of success then?

 

Second, I don't actually have an issue with speaking about other games and how they implemented fetch quests, it's more that I haven't found discussion about ME:A and DAI fetch quests really productive for two reasons, which is why I try to avoid them. And before going to the reasons, I must stress I absolutely hate majority of the side content in DAI as I've realized that for me the larger feeling left by the game after finishing was just empty content, an insane amount of filler which really doesn't make me want to play it again.

 

As for the reasons I dislike discussing DAI fetch quests for ME:A, first is that majority of time I've seen the discussion, somehow DAI is considered to be made by the same people than ME:A just because both were published by Bioware. Thus the discussion is not what the ME team has done before, but somehow DAI becomes the latest project of everyone and the discussion isn't that they don't want ME:A implement DAI style of fetch quests, but rather that they don't want them to continue implementing that style fetch quests. What this leads to us is rather than discussing what the ME team has actually, it becomes a discussion on what people think ME team has done. And I realize I'm probably failing to explain my hesitations here. My larger issue in the comparison, though, is that it is unnecessary, as the fetch quest system in DAI is actually really similar to ME1. Which partially makes it so baffling that DAI team went back to it since the ME team found it to be lacking, but that's different dev teams for you. So we could have this discussion as a part of the continuum, looking at how ME team handled it for different games, instead of dragging the spectre of DAI to the discussion.

 

By the way, I am not saying ME:A team won't go back to those types of fetch quests, I really hope they don't.

[Chealec]

i try to put 100% in every game i play, thats why i dont do ''2nd runs'' or whatever that would mean, so ME1 took me nearly 30hrs and i did every single thing there's to do

 

Ummm... since several options are mutually exclusive in Mass Effect - you didn't do everything single thing there is to do in one play through, it's not possible.

[Jay P]

First, I would say that the difference between presented categories 3 and 4 is very difficulty to objectively define at times, with ME3 being one of those cases. While majority of the fetch quests didn't directly tie in to missions, for me they tied to the general theme of the game. The whole galactic civilization is collapsing due to an assault from an unstoppable and unrelenting foe and all of these people are just trying to hold it together, with most of the fetch quests reflecting this while speaking of different values and cultures. The Volus trying to remind his people of the need for mercy and compassion at a time like this, the night club trying to find ways to keep their electricity running while flooded with refugees, the Batarian preacher speaking of his people's need to remember their strength. For me, they all speak to the larger story and thus are category three. To someone, they fail at that and are category four. Based on that, what is our standard of success then?

 

Second, I don't actually have an issue with speaking about other games and how they implemented fetch quests, it's more that I haven't found discussion about ME:A and DAI fetch quests really productive for two reasons, which is why I try to avoid them. And before going to the reasons, I must stress I absolutely hate majority of the side content in DAI as I've realized that for me the larger feeling left by the game after finishing was just empty content, an insane amount of filler which really doesn't make me want to play it again.

 

As for the reasons I dislike discussing DAI fetch quests for ME:A, first is that majority of time I've seen the discussion, somehow DAI is considered to be made by the same people than ME:A just because both were published by Bioware. Thus the discussion is not what the ME team has done before, but somehow DAI becomes the latest project of everyone and the discussion isn't that they don't want ME:A implement DAI style of fetch quests, but rather that they don't want them to continue implementing that style fetch quests. What this leads to us is rather than discussing what the ME team has actually, it becomes a discussion on what people think ME team has done. And I realize I'm probably failing to explain my hesitations here. My larger issue in the comparison, though, is that it is unnecessary, as the fetch quest system in DAI is actually really similar to ME1. Which partially makes it so baffling that DAI team went back to it since the ME team found it to be lacking, but that's different dev teams for you. So we could have this discussion as a part of the continuum, looking at how ME team handled it for different games, instead of dragging the spectre of DAI to the discussion.

 

By the way, I am not saying ME:A team won't go back to those types of fetch quests, I really hope they don't.

 

At this point, I believe we may be slightly talking past each other and agreeing with each other.

 

I haven't played ME3, so I admit my memory of the side quests may be not as accurate as I like.

 

My underlying contention, and preference would be to create a narrative theme for the side quests.  

 

For instance, in ME2, when you first meet Mordin, he is administering to the sick in a besieged clinic.  While all of the side quests there are not perfect, some of them fit the narrative theme very well, namely that there is a rundown, besieged clinic that needs help.  There is less random questing, more questing tied directly to what we are there to accomplish.

 

Obviously these are more resource intensive and Bioware is a business.  One things business must do is they must now attach a gameplay time to their games, for a rough estimate of content and to show investors.  

 

Playtimes are going to be inflated by bad side quests, its the nature of the business.  I am hoping, as I believe you are, with a new galaxy to play with, and new characters and themes, that they will be able bring the focus/keep the focus on the story.

[AlanC9]

Note that the ME3 fetch quests aren't really about inflating play time. All of them together take up well under an hour of playtime, unless the player was going to blow off the Citadel if it wasn't fir them.

[DuskWanderer]

Note that the ME3 fetch quests aren't really about inflating play time. All of them together take up well under an hour of playtime, unless the player was going to blow off the Citadel if it wasn't fir them.

 

Inquisition is the game where the side quests felt like padding. ME3's Citadel quests never felt like padding, and I don't think anyone's ever said that. They don't like the fact that Shepard just eavesdropped, got the tech, and gave it without accepting the mission. That was only acceptable in one mission: The one in the Presidium where the ex-soldier wanted to kill the informant in custody. 

[themikefest]

fetch quests didn't bother me too much. In the majority of my playthroughs I ignored them

[Mercyva]

fetch quests didn't bother me too much. In the majority of my playthroughs I ignored them

 

 

i would understand really, but personally i tend to play to completion! even then some.. DA and mass effect? i have to do everything, i dont like to miss a thing. it would be an issue (or not?) for people like me i'd say the most or even as an end game thing, it would not be that much fun to do

[AlanC9]

Inquisition is the game where the side quests felt like padding. ME3's Citadel quests never felt like padding, and I don't think anyone's ever said that. They don't like the fact that Shepard just eavesdropped, got the tech, and gave it without accepting the mission. That was only acceptable in one mission: The one in the Presidium where the ex-soldier wanted to kill the informant in custody.

Sure. I brought that up because the two types of sidequest are trying to do different things. They're not really the same phenomenon except that they look the same in the quest log. (Like I said upthread, I wouldn't have put the ME3 things in the log myself.)

Hey, what would "accepting" one of those ME3 missions have looked like? Even assuming my Shepard was listening, she's not going to commit to finding those things as any kind of priority. If she stumles across one she'll pick it up, but that`s it.