120 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

Tempest is what I consider to be the best specialization... For a dual wielder, a brawler. But for ranged, both flask of lightning and flask of frost are lacking in usefulness. I know for a fact that artificer is very overpowered on an archer and it basically gives you infinite stamina and no cooldown, but I know almost nothing about how well assassin works with archery.

 

So which is more fun? I'm almost certain artificer will be the one people consider better from a tactical standpoint, but which is more fun is a different question. I've read how artificer is mostly just spamming elemental mines and leaping shot back and forth for to keep your hit count as high as possible for as many critical hits as possible, which sounds quite boring. Assassin at least seems like it would simply augment your style instead of changing it into spamming 2 moves over and over. But I don't actually know (it's just speculation), I've never done either spec and I've never done an archer to actually know anything. If I knew, I wouldn't need to make a topic asking.

[Elhanan]

For myself, Artificer was more about the helpful Passives; only used Elemental Mines as an active ability, and the Focus ability, of course. From what I have seen when building Cole as an Archer, that Spec appears to have more useful Active options. But remember that one may only select eight slots, and there are several choices that are helpful besides the Spec abilities.

[Scofield]

I find all specializations to be pretty boring even if OP

[Dabrikishaw]

My suggestion to you would be Assassin. 

[andy6915]

My suggestion to you would be Assassin.

I want actual explanation.

[Tony208]

Artificer for sure. Being able to spam your basic skills for great sustain is better than keeping mark of death up.

[Elhanan]

Another note for Elemental Mines: I believe it bypasses armor, which can be helpful depending upon the opponent. I would switch it out with my Focus abilities when they were drained and needed to refill for use.

[capn233]

Both specs have abilities that can overshadow those on vanilla archer.  I don't find spamming Hidden Blades much more interesting than mines.  Knockout Bomb is good for nightmare combos of course, whether or not you want to spend your time as an archer lobbing knockout bombs is another issue altogether.

 

Artificer buffs the party and you can use opportunity knocks for whatever powers you want really.

[PapaCharlie9]

Tempest is what I consider to be the best specialization... For a dual wielder, a brawler. But for ranged, both flask of lightning and flask of frost are lacking in usefulness. I know for a fact that artificer is very overpowered on an archer and it basically gives you infinite stamina and no cooldown, but I know almost nothing about how well assassin works with archery.
 
So which is more fun? I'm almost certain artificer will be the one people consider better from a tactical standpoint, but which is more fun is a different question. I've read how artificer is mostly just spamming elemental mines and leaping shot back and forth for to keep your hit count as high as possible for as many critical hits as possible, which sounds quite boring. Assassin at least seems like it would simply augment your style instead of changing it into spamming 2 moves over and over. But I don't actually know (it's just speculation), I've never done either spec and I've never done an archer to actually know anything. If I knew, I wouldn't need to make a topic asking.

I reject the premise. If you are looking for most fun, I say Tempest for Archer. Sera on Flask of Lighting/auto attack while controlling a different character makes me giggle, it's like Sera has a machine gun. Controlling Sera, Flask of Fire plus two or three Leaping Shots or Explosive Shots is something I could do all day. And just the pure joy of routinely getting 4 digit crit damage, due to stacking Killer's Alchemy with MO.

That said, I've been running post-Skyhold Varric with Beats Walking + Leaping Shot and I have to say, that is a lot of fun too. You scoot around the mob pretty easily and, oops, you're gone before they can hit back, and here's a bunch of arrows in the teeth as a send-off gift. Technically, there is no Artificer active skill involved with that, unless you toss the mines before escaping with Leaping Shot, but all the passive buffs from Artificer make it both fun and effective.

[Dabrikishaw]

I want actual explanation.

The upgrades to the Stealth talent found in the Assassin tree will allow you to pick off mobs one at a time with a different talent after each kill. If you're trying to avoid monotony then you're free to use any offense talent you want in Stealth to kill a mook with a guarantied critical hit. Save Mark of Death for bosses or elites.

[Bigdawg13]

I think you'll have more fun with Artificer, due to their low cooldowns.  Elemental mines are pretty cool and hook n tackle with leaping shot is great fun.  Fallback plan is what really seals the deal though due to it's tactical use.  The problem most people have is, they don't really build their parties to have high crit.  They give them whatever gear they find.  Artificer is party dependent IMHO.

 

Assassin can really create some huge numbers though given Mark of Death.  If you really want to see how big your damage can get, and like the idea of stealth one-shotting people ad nauseam then this is the spec for you.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Assassin :- Mark of Winning + High Burst Damage.

 

Artificer :- Crowd Control + Passives + No Cooldown.

[andy6915]

I think you'll have more fun with Artificer, due to their low cooldowns.  Elemental mines are pretty cool and hook n tackle with leaping shot is great fun.  Fallback plan is what really seals the deal though due to it's tactical use.  The problem most people have is, they don't really build their parties to have high crit.  They give them whatever gear they find.  Artificer is party dependent IMHO.

 

Assassin can really create some huge numbers though given Mark of Death.  If you really want to see how big your damage can get, and like the idea of stealth one-shotting people ad nauseam then this is the spec for you.

 

Fallback plan? That looked crappy. I already made up a build using the DAI build calculator, and had this setup-

 

1.leaping shot

2.long shot

3.full draw

4.hook and tackle

5.poison weapons

6.stealth

7.evasion

8.elemental mines

 

 

Fallback plan didn't seem good, and I wanted poison weapons to make use of "tricks of the trade" duration and damage bonus to status ailments. Poison weapons was only going to be the basic unupgraded version though.

 

Note that I made a build for assassin too. Making a build doesn't mean I'm decided, I just like to know what I might do ahead of time. Speaking of which, I really do love that skill calculator. Makes build making easy.

[capn233]

Fallback plan lets you play melee archer more easily.  I didn't really use it though.

 

I don't care for Full Draw on Artificer.  Single target, long cooldown, long animation.  Pretty much all the archery actives besides that have better synergy with opportunity knocks (and poison weapons).

[andy6915]

Fallback plan lets you play melee archer more easily.  I didn't really use it though.

 

I don't care for Full Draw on Artificer.  Single target, long cooldown, long animation.  Pretty much all the archery actives besides that have better synergy with opportunity knocks (and poison weapons).

Yeah, but... 800% weapon damage. That's really significant. Or 1600% weapon damage if the first thing that hits it is full draw, even better. Anything over 600% is something I can't easily ignore.

[Elhanan]

Full Draw may not work as well for DPS, but I like to have it for initial attacks from Stealth, as well as the KD effect. Helpful against Dragons, too.

Personally would drop the Hook & Tackle; not a fan of the MMO technique and animations, plus an archer should try to remain at range and not close that often.

FWIW - I did not select upgraded Elemental Mines because the description suggests it will drain all Stamina. Perhaps confirming that beforehand may be of aid.

[andy6915]

Full Draw may not work as well for DPS, but I like to have it for initial attacks from Stealth, as well as the KD effect. Helpful against Dragons, too.

Personally would drop the Hook & Tackle; not a fan of the MMO technique and animations, plus an archer should try to remain at range and not close that often.

FWIW - I did not select upgraded Elemental Mines because the description suggests it will drain all Stamina. Perhaps confirming that beforehand may be of aid.

 

Hook and tackle might not be the BEST move, but holy damn is it FUN. Not to mention how well it combines with leaping shot. Check these vids out

 

 

 

"Looked like it hurt" will regen your stamina so much when using elemental mines that it doesn't matter.

[Elhanan]

Hook and tackle might not be the BEST move, but holy damn is it FUN. Not to mention how well it combines with leaping shot. Check these vids out.
 
"Looked like it hurt" will regen your stamina so much when using elemental mines that it doesn't matter.

While I may try upgraded EM's, my reflexes are not the best, so I try and control the battlefield from the back as much as possible. And I use Elemental Mines to insure this is the case, as opposed to a close range tactic.

FYI - If using JoH, you may wish to save two Lvl Up pts for a new Ability; quite useful in both DLC's. And with Mark of the Rift and Hail of Arrows, those Focus abilities are helpful as options occasionally.

[draken-heart]

 

"Looked like it hurt" will regen your stamina so much when using elemental mines that it doesn't matter.

 

If the mines actually hit. I find it kind of useless unless you can micro enough to make sure it hits a lot of the mines. Too close, you will not get all of them, and too far is the same. There is a small area range that makes the mines useful. Same goes for the number, too few enemies and it is nothing, and too many and you do not hit them all.

[capn233]

Yeah, but... 800% weapon damage. That's really significant. Or 1600% weapon damage if the first thing that hits it is full draw, even better. Anything over 600% is something I can't easily ignore.

 

LS/AL can do multiples of that, including combo damage.

 

By mid late game I am not convinced taking time to Full Draw a random low tier mook makes sense time wise, even if it one-shots them.  At least in a team setting.  If you want it by all means keep it, but it is less synergistic with other common artificer abilities than FBP really.

[tcun44]

I'm going to suggest you may not enjoy archer (heresy). Artificer is the best archer build (IMO). It has versatility- close quarters combat (leaping shot/mines/hook and tackle), long range (fast cooldowns on long shot and Full Draw) and the best boss killer in the game (Hail of Arrows trivializes any boss). I, like you, much prefer DW play. I got to a point at level 17 or 18 where I was bored to tears playing as an Archer. You can deal huge damage- but everything dies before it gets close to you. I believe Archer Artificer is the KE of Rogue play. Unkillable and overpowering.

 

Just my .02.

[Dabrikishaw]

Stay away from Full Draw if you're going to play an Artificer. It's too Stamina intensive for little pay-off. You'll want talents that cause multiple hits to get your stamina back.

[Bigdawg13]

Fallback plan? That looked crappy. I already made up a build using the DAI build calculator, and had this setup-

 

1.leaping shot

2.long shot

3.full draw

4.hook and tackle

5.poison weapons

6.stealth

7.evasion

8.elemental mines

 

 

Fallback plan didn't seem good, and I wanted poison weapons to make use of "tricks of the trade" duration and damage bonus to status ailments. Poison weapons was only going to be the basic unupgraded version though.

 

Note that I made a build for assassin too. Making a build doesn't mean I'm decided, I just like to know what I might do ahead of time. Speaking of which, I really do love that skill calculator. Makes build making easy.

 

Fallback Plan fell into a similar category as Flask of Frost IMHO.  It was one of those skills I discounted until I tried it.  I found that as a non-assassin Archer, I rarely used stealth.  It did not warrant a spot on my very limited bar.  However, every so often I'd find myself in a tight spot with low stamina.  Fallback Plan is a reset.  It's an oh crap button that costs no stamina.  What's better is it saves me on using health potions / regen potions.   Plus you can use it tactically.  Set it  down, run in and let them swarm you.  Drop your mines, and before you die you use it to reset back (at a great distance, full health) and watch the fire works go off.  Then hook and tackle in on the swarm you just created, and leaping shot 3 times.  Sooooo much damage.  Grab the +50 stamina necklace and with upgraded mines you drop 3 sets of them.  It obliterates entire groups with a fire work display to boot.

 

Seriously though, why start a thread asking for advice about spec/builds you have not done, and then critique them as if you are an expert.  You admit you have not played an archer assassin or artificer archer.  Go try it.  Replace stealth with it. 

 

Or alternatively go do archer assassin which plays like this (stealth, full draw, stealth, full draw, stealth, full draw, stealth full draw....etc).  Then you can have your wonderous 800% full draw that takes several seconds in animation time.  Mean while I'll be leaping shot 3x with hidden blades and shield bash that can proc on each of them.

[Rawgrim]

Artificer makes the rogue more powerful than a mage. You get the ability to teleport, after all. Mages can't do that. Go for the Artificer.

[actionhero112]

Mines are barely worth the time it takes to throw them imo, gimmicky but not really worth the skill point. Anyways, with opportunity knocks you don't have to really use abilities beyond long shot, full draw (better if you have the explode on kill masterwork) and leaping shot. If you like hook and tackle go for it, I'm more partial to evade, which is on the way to ambush anyways. 

 

The thing about assassin is that it doesn't really synergize with the archer the way artificer does. Full draw is way too long of an animation to use along side mark, and hidden blades is gimmicky at range (Slow travel time).

 

I'd say tempest and assassin are better for dual wielders imo, while artificer is made for bow users. Just my two cents.