120 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

I decided artificer, but right now I'm having a build problem. I ended up liking all the archer skills and don't really want to drop any of them, and I have both evade and stealth. Then I got shadow strike as a close range attack. So now I only have 1 slot left, meaning I don't have room for both elemental mines and hook-and-tackle. Which means something has to be dropped, but what? Long shot is good for sniping, full draw is good for catching an enemy unaware and has good knockdown potential, explosive shot does very effective and constant knockdown to keep tough enemies off of everyone, leaping shot is... Leaping shot, it's usefulness doesn't need explained. And shadow strike has been great help since it less me instantly back off anyone who tries coming after me with melee, and it's nice to come out of stealth with it and then follow up with a leaping shot to get distance again.

[Elhanan]

I decided artificer, but right now I'm having a build problem. I ended up liking all the archer skills and don't really want to drop any of them, and I have both evade and stealth. Then I got shadow strike as a close range attack. So now I only have 1 slot left, meaning I don't have room for both elemental mines and hook-and-tackle. Which means something has to be dropped, but what? Long shot is good for sniping, full draw is good for catching an enemy unaware and has good knockdown potential, explosive shot does very effective and constant knockdown to keep tough enemies off of everyone, leaping shot is... Leaping shot, it's usefulness doesn't need explained. And shadow strike has been great help since it less me instantly back off anyone who tries coming after me with melee, and it's nice to come out of stealth with it and then follow up with a leaping shot to get distance again.

I used all four Archery selection, Stealth and Evade, Focus or mines, and the new Aegis shield from JoH. Personally would plan to remain at range, respec and lose Shadow Strike and Hook & Tackle, and take another Focus option. But if you can handle melee, then take the one that helps the most.

[capn233]

Drop Shadow Strike if you aren't going to drop Full Draw.

[Dabrikishaw]

Drop Stealth, you really don't need it on an Artificer.

[andy6915]

Drop Stealth, you really don't need it on an Artificer.

 

That's... Insane. Then again, it probably is my least used move since I tend to be pretty good at dodging (all my experience with Ninja Gaidan and Devil May Cry and Bayonetta is likely the reason). So I guess I'll consider your idea, although it took someone saying it for me to even consider the idea of a rogue without stealth since it's such an outlandish idea. Not outlandish "bad", outlandish "crazy enough to work".

[Bigdawg13]

If I recall I replaced stealth on all archers except assassin.  But if I did it all over again I'd probably keep stealth on a tempest archer.  That being said, I would use fallback plan instead of stealth (yes yes, I know your opinion on fallback plan) and get rid of full draw instead.  That's just my preference.  As an artificer my bread and butter skills would be: hook n tackle, leaping shot, elemental mines, and fallback plan. 

[PapaCharlie9]

Another vote for drop Stealth. I never use it on rogues that aren't Assassins or DW, it's not needed.

 

And since you are dropping Stealth, you can drop Shadow Strike too. Hook/Tackle breaks you out of Stealth anyway, so why bother? Just use an Archer attack. Or if you must have a close combat skill, take Throwing Blades. I believe it is effectively AoE if you are in the middle of a mob.

 

You don't really need Evade either. You can Hook/Tackle or Leaping Shot away from problems.

[Avejajed]

I'm sure you already decided, but I went with Artificer and used Elemental Mines ALL THE TIME.

 

The rest were ok. I never used the focus ability. I had too many slots taken as it was.

[andy6915]

If I recall I replaced stealth on all archers except assassin.  But if I did it all over again I'd probably keep stealth on a tempest archer.  That being said, I would use fallback plan instead of stealth (yes yes, I know your opinion on fallback plan) and get rid of full draw instead.  That's just my preference.  As an artificer my bread and butter skills would be: hook n tackle, leaping shot, elemental mines, and fallback plan. 

 

If I drop full draw and add fallback, then I'm still stuck with only a single slot left for EITHER elemental mines or hook and tackle. Which means that won't help at all, it leaves me in the same position I am now.

 

 

Another vote for drop Stealth. I never use it on rogues that aren't Assassins or DW, it's not needed.

 

And since you are dropping Stealth, you can drop Shadow Strike too. Hook/Tackle breaks you out of Stealth anyway, so why bother? Just use an Archer attack. Or if you must have a close combat skill, take Throwing Blades. I believe it is effectively AoE if you are in the middle of a mob.

 

You don't really need Evade either. You can Hook/Tackle or Leaping Shot away from problems.

 

Drop evade? Out of the question. I need a proper melee move, shadow strike is good damage and is instant, and causes enemies to get knocked into the air and then knocked down when they land, it's perfect for getting an enemy off me immediately. Not having a melee skill had been driving me nuts, especially since you don't even have melee animations like you had in DA2. Throwing blades will take level points I can't spare, and it's more of a ranged attack anyway ("throwing" is a key word there) which I'm already good on that front.

 

 

 

I don't mean to argue all the advice, but between one advice that leaves me with the same problem I already have and the other telling me to drop vital things like evade... I don't really have a lot of option. I was more wanting advice on what archery skill to drop to free up 2 slots, which I've already been told why. But... Well, what is the reasoning? It's high damage, does knockdown, is perfect for an opener to combat. Why it and not, say, exploding arrow which does minimal damage and knockdown is its only advantage (useful as it is for keeping enemies down thanks to a short cooldown). Or longshot, which does pitiable damage if not done at any sort of range. There's an argument to be made for dropping all 3, I'm just not sure what reasons people have for saying their suggestions since few have given any real reasoning yet. I want an actual explanation for it, I can't just read something someone says and then just go with it without hearing why. If everyone says full draw, then everyone must have a reason which shouldn't be hard to sum up.

[capn233]

Hmmm.  I like stealth for aggro drop, status effect drop (w upgrade), damage bonus and armor piercing (with Ambush).

 

I actually would in fact drop Evade before Stealth, especially on Artificer with decent crit chance.

 

edit:

 

The reason Full Draw is the worst archery skill, especially for Artificer, is that it does not generate more than one chance to crit unlike every single other active in that tree.  It does not detonate combos like Longshot.  It is worse against a target running into melee than ES or LS.  It is also the case that typically opening a fight with it does not gain much of anything over the other strategies you could employ, except perhaps in the case of a solo.  Coupled with the overly long animation, it isn't as conducive to ability spam.

[Bigdawg13]

If I drop full draw and add fallback, then I'm still stuck with only a single slot left for EITHER elemental mines or hook and tackle. Which means that won't help at all, it leaves me in the same position I am now.

 

I did not make myself clear.  Fallback Plan replaces stealth.  In fact, it replaces stealth and evade.  It does both.  It moves you out of harms way, negates the need for stealth, and acts as a free potion.  "What there are no applause?"

 

And I cannot "like" capn233 post enough.  Full Draw is not a great skill for the artificer.  You want multi-hit abilities. 

 

Drop shadow strike, stealth, and evasion

Pick up fallback plan, hook n tackle, and elemental mines

 

If you find yourself itching for stealth play, switch to DW and use spinning blades and throwing knives.

[andy6915]

I did not make myself clear.  Fallback Plan replaces stealth.  In fact, it replaces stealth and evade.  It does both.  It moves you out of harms way, negates the need for stealth, and acts as a free potion.  "What there are no applause?"

 

I won't be dropping evade, period. That skill is about as vital as it can possibly get. dodge>arrow>dodge>arrow>dodge>arrow has been a combo that has saved my life more times than I care to count, basically being completely untouchable to anything that doesn't have a massive attack range (like high dragon fireballs). Fallback cannot possibly replace that.

[Bigdawg13]

I won't be dropping evade, period. That skill is about as vital as it can possibly get. dodge>arrow>dodge>arrow>dodge>arrow has been a combo that has saved my life more times than I care to count, basically being completely untouchable to anything that doesn't have a massive attack range (like high dragon fireballs). Fallback cannot possibly replace that.

 

Fallback Plan is superior in every way.  Because not only does it guarantee complete avoidance, it does not depend on split-timing.  Example:  Arrow coming..you dodge too late.  Oh crap now you are almost dead, pop potion.  Now with Fallback plan, arrow coming, you smile and grin and keep on firing until almost dead.  Then you pop Fallback Plan, re-appear on a higher elevation at full life.   I'm sorry but Fallback plan is better in every way.  It is like a tactical evade with full health potion rolled into one.  It doesn't require you to stop doing damage and can give you a damage boost by letting you reset to higher elevation.  100% better in every possible way. 

 

I get it, you don't want to let go of your security skill.  The big bad arrow might get you. 

[andy6915]

Fallback Plan is superior in every way.  Because not only does it guarantee complete avoidance, it does not depend on split-timing.  Example:  Arrow coming..you dodge too late.  Oh crap now you are almost dead, pop potion.  Now with Fallback plan, arrow coming, you smile and grin and keep on firing until almost dead.  Then you pop Fallback Plan, re-appear on a higher elevation at full life.   I'm sorry but Fallback plan is better in every way.  It is like a tactical evade with full health potion rolled into one.  It doesn't require you to stop doing damage and can give you a damage boost by letting you reset to higher elevation.  100% better in every possible way. 

 

I get it, you don't want to let go of your security skill.  The big bad arrow might get you. 

 

It has a 32 second cooldown and only lasts 15 seconds, and you think it's better than evade? Besides, I want to be stylish. It's in fact why I want leaping shot and hook-and-tackle, both are very stylish and cool to watch. Fallback plan is not cool. Evade is cool, coming out of an evade and right into a leaping shot is cool, coming out of an evade and doing an immediate longshot is cool.

 

Call it a petty reason, but... Well, I decided against playing a dwarven mage because of this reason. Dwarves are too short and their frame to broad to make leaping shot look cool, you need long legs to pull that off stylishly. That and I like using skill to dodge, makes me feel badass.

[andy6915]

Hell, here's the topic where I was wanting to play a dwarf but realized they're not stylish enough as archers for me.

 

http://forum.bioware...92&hl=+graceful

[Elhanan]

Hell, here's the topic where I was wanting to play a dwarf but realized they're not stylish enough as archers for me.
 
http://forum.bioware...92&hl=+graceful

My Dwarven Rogues are mostly Archers; hate typing them in the usual roles. This has been on-going since my PnP days, and since NWN1 for cRPG's. Even respec Sigrun as an Archer for DAA; she now kills too quickly at times. And until DAI allows for easy weapon switching, they are all Archers; dislike DW myself.

But they may not appear graceful, though they are. Hence the name Clan McJagger; when in combat, they look like rolling stones!

[Dabrikishaw]

My recommendation came from a place where the entire Subterfuge tree was useless to me as an Archer Artificer.

 

Stealth isn't needed when you can use Leaping Shot and Fallback Plan to escape melee range.

Evade's primary function is again covered by Leaping Shot and even Fallback plan. Hook and Tackle is all the mobility my Artificer needed.

Shadow Strike is worthless to me in general as an Artificer because it only hits once. If I feel like getting in burst single hit damage that knocks enemies in the air I already have Spike Trap.

 

Now late game when you have tons of ability points to spare sure go get Evade if you want.

[andy6915]

My recommendation came from a place where the entire Subterfuge tree was useless to me as an Archer Artificer.

Stealth isn't needed when you can use Leaping Shot and Fallback Plan to escape melee range.
Evade's primary function is again covered by Leaping Shot and even Fallback plan. Hook and Tackle is all the mobility my Artificer needed.
Shadow Strike is worthless to me in general as an Artificer because it only hits once. If I feel like getting in burst single hit damage that knocks enemies in the air I already have Spike Trap.

Now late game when you have tons of ability points to spare sure go get Evade if you want.

Practically no cooldown is better than a cooldown of 12 seconds, meaning leaping shot is utterly incapable of helping with survivablity compared to evade. Just drop this angle of argument, you'll not get anywhere at convincing me to drop my most important skill. You're just wasting your time trying.

[Dabrikishaw]

I wasn't doing anything of the sort but okay. Keep playing with Evade if you want it on your talent bar.

 

How much critical hit chance do you have though? Becuase if it's high enough you really shouldn't be saying things like Leaping Shot takes too long to come off it's cooldown.

[andy6915]

I wasn't doing anything of the sort but okay. Keep playing with Evade if you want it on your talent bar.

 

How much critical hit chance do you have though? Becuase if it's high enough you really shouldn't be saying things like Leaping Shot takes too long to come off it's cooldown.

 

Right now? Not a lot of critical chance to speak of. I'm still only in Haven and haven't even bothered to really make any custom gear, and I don't usually start going nuts with equipment crafting until Skyhold. Once I get there I'll start making custom armor and weapons to start getting as high a critical chance as I can get, as well as actually GETTING artificer unlocked in the first place. But right now, I'm pretty low on critical chance. Yes, I know that criticals are a big thing for artificers. Don't worry, I'll take care of that in due time.

[Dabrikishaw]

If you're interested, I made a build guide for an Artificer than includes things like equipment for getting high critical chance.

 

http://forum.bioware...rtificer-build/

[Bigdawg13]

It has a 32 second cooldown and only lasts 15 seconds, and you think it's better than evade? Besides, I want to be stylish. It's in fact why I want leaping shot and hook-and-tackle, both are very stylish and cool to watch. Fallback plan is not cool. Evade is cool, coming out of an evade and right into a leaping shot is cool, coming out of an evade and doing an immediate longshot is cool.

Call it a petty reason, but... Well, I decided against playing a dwarven mage because of this reason. Dwarves are too short and their frame to broad to make leaping shot look cool, you need long legs to pull that off stylishly. That and I like using skill to dodge, makes me feel badass.

Artificer and long cooldowns....does not compute. There are no cooldowns. That is unless you have not geared for crit. Also crit for your party. Perhaps instead of arguing you go farm bear hide.

[andy6915]

Artificer and long cooldowns....does not compute. There are no cooldowns. That is unless you have not geared for crit. Also crit for your party. Perhaps instead of arguing you go farm bear hide.

 

I just did a topic asking what happens if you kill a high dragon before Skyhold, and you think I have artificer unlocked already? Does not add up, does it?

[Elhanan]

It was the in game description of Artificer that sold me on giving it a try; a specialty in controlling the battlefield. Now while I only use Elemental Mines, I have seen Varric using the upgraded Spike Traps effectively in Action mode on vids, as well as the Hail of Arrows ability when needed.

Again, I prefer to lead from the back of the party, but choose the abilities you enjoy playing.

[andy6915]

It was the in game description of Artificer that sold me on giving it a try; a specialty in controlling the battlefield. Now while I only use Elemental Mines, I have seen Varric using the upgraded Spike Traps effectively in Action mode on vids, as well as the Hail of Arrows ability when needed.

Again, I prefer to lead from the back of the party, but choose the abilities you enjoy playing.

 

I like leading from the front, being very much action orientated. I have evade precisely because it lets me duck and weave all over the battlefield in a very direct manner, even using a melee skill like shadow strike. I don't think artificer runs counter to this, and it seems the most direct style an archer can do (obviously tempest is the most direct style for a dual wielder though).