204 réponses à ce sujet

[TmTapani]

Did you even bother to read. Every single area has quests that connect to the plot. It's not just 'pretty scenery'.

And how does it add to atmosphere? All the places mentioned are regions where the conflict of the game is taking place, ie Corypheus using the civil war to his own ends.

How does your brothel add to that conflict, or any of the conflicts going on. It's a waste of resources.

 

Yes, I actually did bother to read.

 

So what you're actually saying is that if the game had a brothel, in the background, in a place where something plot-related happens, THEN it wouldn't be a waste of resources?

 

And I'm pretty sure I never said that the pretty scenery didn't add to the atmosphere. Of course it does. You were the one who said that not related to the story = a waste of resources and I applied that definition to the scenery as well.

[Ariella]

Yes, I actually did bother to read.

So what you're actually saying is that if the game had a brothel, in the background, in a place where something plot-related happens, THEN it wouldn't be a waste of resources?

And I'm pretty sure I never said that the pretty scenery didn't add to the atmosphere. Of course it does. You were the one who said that not related to the story = a waste of resources and I applied that definition to the scenery as well.

No, it's obvious you don't read. I pointed out two posts back that places like the Exalted Plains show the player what's going on, not just having text telling them which is one of the first rules of storytelling: show, don' t tell.

Combine that with several hours of questing and you certainly don't have a waste of resources.

Bioware didn't put a brothel in because it didn't fit the story they wanted to tell. Adding one just because is a waste of resources better spent somewhere else, especially since a number of the functions, like a social gatheting place are handled in Herald's Rest.

The faster you get the fact that those areas were designed both visually and questwise to support the story, the better it will be.

I will repeat one more time. All of the Dales regions, the Hissing Waste and the Oasis contribute to the story, either by having companion or nemesis quests, or by having quests that tie into the conflict. They all support the story both visually and by writing required for questing.

I cannot find a damned place where a brothel might do the same to any extent that would be worth the resources to add it. And it seems Bioware agrees with me on this point.

[helpthisguyplease]

Val Royeux would be a very good place. You can get more connections with the nobility of the empire.

[TmTapani]

No, it's obvious you don't read. I pointed out two posts back that places like the Exalted Plains show the player what's going on, not just having text telling them which is one of the first rules of storytelling: show, don' t tell.

Combine that with several hours of questing and you certainly don't have a waste of resources.

Bioware didn't put a brothel in because it didn't fit the story they wanted to tell. Adding one just because is a waste of resources better spent somewhere else, especially since a number of the functions, like a social gatheting place are handled in Herald's Rest.

The faster you get the fact that those areas wete designed both visually and questwise to support the story, the better it will be.

I will repeat one more time. All of the Dales regions, the Hissing Waste and the Oasis contribute to the story, either by having companion or nemesis quests, or by having quests that tie into the conflict. They all support the story both visually and by writing required for questing.

I cannot find a damned place where a brothel might do the same to any extent that would be worth the resources to add it. And it seems Bioware agrees with me on this point.

 

And somehow that is something a brothel cannot do? Contribute to a story? House a companion quest for example? I'm not arguing that a brothel should be added just for the sake of having one. What would be the point of that? But it can be everything to the game that those Hissing Wastes and Oasises are, with the skill to use them properly. Hell, it would be more cost effective as well. Obviously it's too late to add one to the game now, but as a concept it is something Bioware should look at. Even if some personally do not like them.

 

And again, I actually do read. All I am doing is using your own words against you, you're the one who keeps painting him/herself into a corner. You can not declare something you do not like or want " a waste of resources ", using certain criteria to back up your claim, and then act like I'd mentioned the Witcher or something when that exact same criteria is used to define something you like as equally wasteful.

 

The pretty scenery does not contribute to the story, quite the contrary. DAI does not "show", it "tells". That's actually one of the main criticisms people have for the game. The game "tells", it hides it's meaningful content in text. It "tells" you to care about the poor people caught up in the conflicts, those fat and jolly folk, instead of showing you why you should give a damn. it "tells" you to save the pretty land, somehow unaffected by the conflict, instead of giving you a reason to do so.

 

Brothels are wasteful in resources only if you do not use them properly. Same applies to everything else. Yes, even the things you, and I, like. They don't fit the story? Ok then. Could they? Of course. Mature content and all that. And no, that does not (have to) equal sex or nudity.

[Kantr]

I'd rather have proper cities than a brothel if you had to choose between the two

[Ariella]

And somehow that is something a brothel cannot do? Contribute to a story? House a companion quest for example? I'm not arguing that a brothel should be added just for the sake of having one. What would be the point of that? But it can be everything to the game that those Hissing Wastes and Oasises are, with the skill to use them properly. Hell, it would be more cost effective as well. Obviously it's too late to add one to the game now, but as a concept it is something Bioware should look at. Even if some personally do not like them.

 
Yet again, you aren't paying attention. Bioware has had them before in games. They did contribute.

This time it seems Bioware felt it wasn't needed. Thus putting one in would be a waste of resources because it doesn't support the story they're trying to tell.

And I don't give a crap about what people's opinions of the game are. Bioware felt the resources were better spent on developing visual they thought supported the story they wanted to tell. And for anyone looking with an unbiased eye, they do.

Exalted Plains shows the destruction of the civil war.
Emerald Graves is full of Dalish Lore.
Emprise du Lion ties into everything red lyrium
The Oasis is connected to Solas in some way.
Hissing Wastes have dwarven history and show the Venatori digging up the world for relics for Corypheus

As for brothels housing companion quests. Herald's Rest already acts as a quest hub, and none of the quests in game really could be done in a brothel. Having one would just duplicate effort.

If I may also point out, Bioware got tagged for not having enough enviroments in DA2.

This is the story they chose to tell, and it seems they felt that a brothel wasn't needed this time. Putting one in when other areas can and do serve a similar function as quest hubs etc is a waste of resources.

And I could care less about the Witcher, especially since CDPR doesn't have to spent resources for eight character models for potential PCs, four voices. Lines need to be recorded several times based on sex, race, and sometimes class. And that's just dealing with the PC. They also have to set up for all the permutations of the Keep, something Witcher really doesn't do. And yes, I'm aware you can set up a world state from TW2, but it's what, seven eight questions which are either choice 1 or 2, iirc. Whereas the Keep tracks how many potential permutations based on the choices made in two games.

CDPR can put resources into growing beards or houses of joy, because they don't have those issues to deal with.

For the last time: Bioware had brothels in game before, they served a story purpose. This time it seems that Bioware felt that such a place wouldn't. There is no agenda, and they aren't there because someone doesn't like them. They aren't there because Bioware didn't think they were needed to tell the story they wanted to tell, and there were other places that served better and would handle some of the same functions (ie taverns).

I have no clue why people go all tinfoil hat about this.

[helpthisguyplease]

I'd rather have proper cities than a brothel if you had to choose between the two

What proper renaissance city does not have a brothel? Even Rome had one and it was the place where the pope lived and evens some of them visited the brothel.

[TmTapani]

@Ariella

 

And somehow that prevents them from having a brothel in the game, in any capacity? Even as a background? They are not needed for the story? The drapery in the castle isn't exactly plot relevant either, you know. The game is full of things not needed for the story. That's where the immersion and atmosphere come from. Realistically you'd expect whores around a military camp. It was big business for them IRL. It's fine if a developer doesn't want a brothel in the game though, or have a need for it. It really is. It's their call and I'm not criticising them for it. Just don't say having a brothel would be a waste of resources when other things equally irrelevant to the story are magically not. It's hypocritical and so.. "american". Or catholic perhaps? That might be better.

 

And how on earth did this again change into a pissing contest between DAI and Witcher? I deliberately avoided using any examples from it though I did actually mention it. Apparently hit a nerve nevertheless. Can't understand what world state and DAI catering to several races and character models have to do with the topic though. You might not care about people's opinions of DAI but apparently you do care deeply about their opinion on Witcher.

 

In any case it has become painfully obvious that there is no point in this. There is no discussing the topic with you. The only tinfoil hat in the room is on you.

 

Have a nice day regardless.

[correctamundo]

What proper renaissance city does not have a brothel? Even Rome had one and it was the place where the pope lived and evens some of them visited the brothel.

 

Proper renaissance cities had a lot of things. Why the specific focus on the brothel?

[correctamundo]

 Realistically you'd expect whores around a military camp. It was big business for them IRL.

 

If it wasn't for the fact that your IRL military camp is NOT the same as a Thedas military camp. You really should read up on both sexuality in Thedas as well the armies of Thedas. The inquistion soldiers do get their sex without the brothel. Even the chantry sisters get laid often enough without a brothel. There is plenty of action in the bar. Just chat up the person of your fancy.

[Ariella]

TmTapani,

Again, you miss the point. It wasn't needed this time around. If they find a story reason for including one next time, they will.

And designing an entire building, populating it from scratch which doesn't suit the story you're telling is a huge difference from dressing a setting that's going to be a centerpiece.

Why this doesn't compute with you, and why you're so fixated on a brothel, I have no clue.

[helpthisguyplease]

Proper renaissance cities had a lot of things. Why the specific focus on the brothel?

Because that was one of the most important places in the city in Venice for example entire war strategies where developed in those places bonds where made between the upper nobility and it was a good place to keep certain men under control and it was a profitable business where even the church had a share.

Its a very important part of society. And even for Thedas it is especially for the more unsavory members of society as shown in DAO and DA2.  The inquisition has no problem dealing with unsavory members of society and a brothel is a very good place to find them.

[The Oracle]

Inquisition doesn't have an Alienage in any of the cities either, and I would say that this would be a far larger lore and relevance omission than a brothel, given that every major town and city has them and they were an important part of the last two games. I don't know why they weren't added, but I don't automatically jump to some conspiracy theory of political correctness or "feminist agenda". i just figured that they didn't want to go there, having already had quests in Alienages in the previous games. Perhaps they just want to go down a different route. Same with brothels. They probably weren't added because they didn't need to be, most brothel based stories having already been covered before.

 

There are lots of old things not in this game and lots of new things that are. It only seems to be a talking point, however, or something that people get whiney about when it has to do with sex. 

[correctamundo]

Because that was one of the most important places in the city in Venice for example entire war strategies where developed in those places bonds where made between the upper nobility and it was a good place to keep certain men under control and it was a profitable business where even the church had a share.

Its a very important part of society. And even for Thedas it is especially for the more unsavory members of society as shown in DAO and DA2.  The inquisition has no problem dealing with unsavory members of society and a brothel is a very good place to find them.

 

Yes, ok, if they had decided to include Val Royeaux proper in the game a brothel would no doubt have a place. But Skyhold?

[helpthisguyplease]

Inquisition doesn't have an Alienage in any of the cities either, and I would say that this would be a far larger lore and relevance omission than a brothel, given that every major town and city has them and they were an important part of the last two games. I don't know why they weren't added, but I don't automatically jump to some conspiracy theory of political correctness or "feminist agenda". i just figured that they didn't want to go there, having already had quests in Alienages in the previous games. Perhaps they just want to go down a different route. Same with brothels. They probably weren't added because they didn't need to be, most brothel based stories having already been covered before.

 

There are lots of old things not in this game and lots of new things that are. It only seems to be a talking point, however, or something that people get whiney about when it has to do with sex. 

You think the alienage problem was not talked? The only big city in DAI is Val Royeux but there are tens of thousands of cramped in a place the size of Denerim's market. Good luck showing that when the city we see is the size of Denerim's market.

[Nixou]

Inquisition doesn't have an Alienage in any of the cities either, and I would say that this would be a far larger lore and relevance omission than a brothel, given that every major town and city has them and they were an important part of the last two games

 

 

Worse: Inquisition sends the Inquisitor to Halamshiral: the city with the largest population of Elves on the continent, an the only thing shown is the Winter Palace.

[Ariella]

Worse: Inquisition sends the Inquisitor to Halamshiral: the city with the largest population of Elves on the continent, an the only thing shown is the Winter Palace.

Considering the story requires only the Winter Palace, it makes perfect sense. The elven conflict in the city is shown using Briala.

And I've seen at least two threads pissing and moaning about no brothel. None about no alienage.

[TmTapani]

The topic of this thread is "Why no brothel in Skyhold". That might be the reason why I talk about brothels here instead of, say, flowers or carpets. Or indeed alienages which is actually an important thing regarding Thedas and its lore. Brothels are not important to it but nevertheless they were the topic here. Or so I thought. But apparently I'm just fixated on brothels. Might actually explain a few things. Like why I cannot compute the reason of why a videogame wouldn't have a building with npcs in it, even if it isn't needed for the story? Would it be ok if it was a tavern with drinking patrons instead? Maybe one day I'll understand. But that day is not today.

 

Enough of this. I'm done. Have your thread back people.

[Sunnie]

You think the alienage problem was not talked? The only big city in DAI is Val Royeux but there are tens of thousands of cramped in a place the size of Denerim's market. Good luck showing that when the city we see is the size of Denerim's market.

We only see a very tiny part of Val Royeux, and its the high class marketplace.

 

@TmTapani

As I said in an earlier post, you wouldn't see a brothel in this part of the city. Orlesian Nobility would not be in this part of Val Royeux looking for sex, they get all they want anytime they want it. What you would likely see would be a proprietor of a lavish escort service, more suited to the high class and status of the nobility that frequent this part of the city.

 

Look at all of the locations we visit during the game and tell me where a brothel would logically fit, I can't fit one in any of these locations.

[Kantr]

Because that was one of the most important places in the city in Venice for example entire war strategies where developed in those places bonds where made between the upper nobility and it was a good place to keep certain men under control and it was a profitable business where even the church had a share.

Its a very important part of society. And even for Thedas it is especially for the more unsavory members of society as shown in DAO and DA2.  The inquisition has no problem dealing with unsavory members of society and a brothel is a very good place to find them.

If it comes down to that they can only make vast cities or small ones with Brothels, I'll take the vast city with no brothel

[Scofield]

Reading this made thread made me remember why i love humanity

[The Oracle]

Reading this made thread made me remember why i love humanity

 

Cause we're idiots that argue about the lack of sex industry in a fictional game world?

[Illegitimus]

As if real life participants of the inquisition didn't take advantage of the pleasures of flesh... But that doesn't fit into any "proper" agenda now does it?

 

Since members of the Inquisition do in fact participate in the "pleasures of flesh", including Bull hiring a prostitute for Cole, that doesn't fly. The truth is actual dedicated brothels are just more of a big city thing.  Denerim has a brothel.  Lothering and Redcliffe don't.  Small towns and military camps generally don't feel the need to dedicate entire buildings to just that purpose.   

[In Exile]

Advocates of a brothel? Try advocates of atmosphere instead. There are more to games than the story, not everything should be a slave to it. Having a brothel in a game like this is a waste of resources only if it isn't done or used properly. And as 9TailsFox said, the pretty scenery isn't relevant to the plot either. So why not cut it out since it is such a "waste of resources"?

What "atmosphere" does "prostitution is legal" particularly show? Just how would a brothel be "properly" used? In DAO the brothel was identical to the various Inns except you got a silly and cheesy cutscene implying underwear sex or bestiality.

[Ariella]

What "atmosphere" does "prostitution is legal" particularly show? Just how would a brothel be "properly" used? In DAO the brothel was identical to the various Inns except you got a silly and cheesy cutscene implying underwear sex or bestiality.

(nod) The Rose made the most sense since the two main line quests that went through there wouldn't really work as well in other senses.