53 réponses à ce sujet

[Rylor Tormtor]

While I visually loved the beginning of ME2, I felt my joining Cerebrus was cursorily explained at best. My big problem is one of the Sole Survivor side quests in ME1.

In this quest, you discover that Cerebrus was the one behind the worm attack. You know, the very one that defined the way your character looked the universe and made you into the survivor you are. Cerebrus. Giant Worms. Dead battalion.

You find that you were not the only one who survived. They found a Corporal Toombs. They experimented on him, and then he escaped. Then he went after the scientists, ones just like Miranda, who experimented on them and killed them.

You have a number of ways to resolve this issue. Personally, I talked Toombs down and shot the bastards myself. They killed my batallion, soldiers who were human and in the Alliance.

This is all brought home when you hear about Toombs, after years of psychological therapy, has lost a lawsuit, or it has been dropped because of lack evidence, against the Alliance.

There is no way that a person who sympathizes with Toombs, who has been on the receiveing end of Cerebrus' ethical treatment test subjects, would agree to help them.

There is always another way.

Now granted, I am only done with the Omega part of the beginning of the game, and maybe Miranda got her way, and I have the chip in my head, and I can't blast the uppity **** and pistol whip the mis-understood vanguard into coherency, but if not, I am disappointed.

[Badpie]

My Shep is a sole survivor too and I have an issue with how Bioware handled joining Cerberus in ME2. Shepard was basically like "well I don't like it, but oookayyy." *shrug* And I was like really? That's it?

And even though I know there are players new to this game, the option to ask "what's Cerebus?" really annoyed the **** out of me.

Modifié par Badpie, 27 janvier 2010 - 07:49 .

[bensmith91]

They brought him back to life...I think you would be willing to work for someone who did that for you

[Badpie]

I'm not saying Shepard shouldn't have teamed up with Cerberus. I'm just saying they didn't even try to make it look like a tough decision. They just kind of pissed away that whole storyline from ME1.

It's the ONE thing so far in the game that irked me something fierce. 

Modifié par Badpie, 27 janvier 2010 - 07:53 .

[IAmTheRad]

Some people wouldn't be playing ME2 after playing ME1. That's why they have the option to ask what Cerebus is.

[neubourn]

I had the Sole Surivor Shep as well, and im hesitant to work for Cerberus, but do because its necessary. I was hesitant up until i went back to the Citadel and found out that not only do the council downplay your heroics (i saved them in ME1), they completely disregard the Reapers.



ME2 is not about Cerberus, its about Shepard saving humanity, and being a part of Cerberus is simply a means to an end. You could also look at it in the light that both the Council and the Alliance forgot about Shep, and not only did Cerberus find Shep, they spent Billions on Lazarus project just to bring Shepard back.



I honestly am really digging the storyline and give kudos to Drew Karpyshyn and BioWare for the story, its brilliant IMO.

[Badpie]

I'm aware of why the option was there. It just irked me for no reason in particular.

I also totally agree that my Shepard would come to the logical conclusion that joining Cerberus is for the best.   I just wanted to see how he got to that decision in a way that didn't practically ignore how much he hates them.

And I agree that the story is amazing.  I love everything about this game.  I just noticed this one minor thing I thought they could have handled better.

Modifié par Badpie, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:31 .

[The Real Bowser]

Before jumping to conclusions, look at Jack and her special mission. It serves as an excellent example here.

For the most part, you don't have to like nor trust Cerberus. I know I don't. Shepard didn't join Cerberus. He simply accepted their help.

As for having the option to ask 'What's Cerberus?' there is a very good chance your character never heard of it if you rushed through the game.  If your character knows what it is, don't click it.  Problem solved.

Modifié par The Real Bowser, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:29 .

[rumination888]

I don't know what game you're playing, but my Sole Survivor Shep doesn't help Cereberus.
He helps humanity from the Collector threat.

[neubourn]

Badpie wrote...

I'm aware of why the option was there. It just irked me for no reason in particular.

I see it as a sign of good writing, that a character can grow and do things that we didnt expect. They are basically asking you, how far are you willing to go to save humanity? Imagine if in ME3, BW asks you to team up with the Geth to beat the Reapers...i think twists like that really push our characters. For sole survivors, the question becomes what is more important...the past, or the future? They are making us discuss this because we are trying to play our characters a certain way, and yet they are challenging us to play them a different way now, and i think its pretty brilliant.

[Badpie]

I went back and edited my post to make more sense.

[MentalKase]

Yeah They said that 50 marines died on Akuz. Well my Shepard Survide and so Did Toombs. That makes it 48 actualy died.

[Badpie]

No. That just means there were 51 there. Toombs was presumed dead. Shep survived. 51 including Shep.  So 49 actually died.

Modifié par Badpie, 27 janvier 2010 - 08:44 .

[Martukis]

Don't forget that you can eventually turn your back on them - or worse, work against them from within. That was my Paragon sole survivor's take on it, anyway.

[Badpie]

Martukis wrote...

Don't forget that you can eventually turn your back on them - or worse, work against them from within. That was my Paragon sole survivor's take on it, anyway.

I was hoping for this. 

[Rylor Tormtor]

bensmith91 wrote...

They brought him back to life...I think you would be willing to work for someone who did that for you

Just because you are a compliment wussy, doesn't mean Shepard is.

Just kidding =)

[Rylor Tormtor]

neubourn wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I'm aware of why the option was there. It just irked me for no reason in particular.

I see it as a sign of good writing, that a character can grow and do things that we didnt expect. They are basically asking you, how far are you willing to go to save humanity? Imagine if in ME3, BW asks you to team up with the Geth to beat the Reapers...i think twists like that really push our characters. For sole survivors, the question becomes what is more important...the past, or the future? They are making us discuss this because we are trying to play our characters a certain way, and yet they are challenging us to play them a different way now, and i think its pretty brilliant.

I don't see it as good writing so much as railroading. Once I discovered I was in a Cerebrus base, I would have to think long and hard about not offing everything in sight. Mirananda's arguement was bland and uncompelling for the most part, and everyone was treating me like some honored guest instead of the one person who did more damage to their organization than anyone else.

Like I said, I am hoping for the story to open up into a bit more complexity, since I am still early on.

[oyukichan]

I can't remember what was actually said, but there is an option when speaking with Jacob (before your initial meeting with The Illusive Man, or was it right after?) where you can say that you're not necessarily cool with helping or trusting Cerberus.

Personally, I'm more pissed about what Cerberus did to Admiral Kahoku than what happened on Akuze, even though I play a sole survivor Shep.  My Shep lives, learns and grows.  I haven't decided how forgiving she can be but you don't have to forgive a person to be able to work with them (Alistair, I'm looking at you!  Wrong forum, I know, I know...) 

Yeoman Kelly also makes a good point about working with Cerberus and being pro-Humanity, rather than anti-alien, too.  So Cerberus might suck, but not all people working for them do.  I can be on-board with that.

[Martukis]

AurinShepard wrote...

I can't remember what was actually said, but there is an option when speaking with Jacob (before your initial meeting with The Illusive Man, or was it right after?) where you can say that you're not necessarily cool with helping or trusting Cerberus.

Personally, I'm more pissed about what Cerberus did to Admiral Kahoku than what happened on Akuze, even though I play a sole survivor Shep.  My Shep lives, learns and grows.  I haven't decided how forgiving she can be but you don't have to forgive a person to be able to work with them (Alistair, I'm looking at you!  Wrong forum, I know, I know...) 

Yeoman Kelly also makes a good point about working with Cerberus and being pro-Humanity, rather than anti-alien, too.  So Cerberus might suck, but not all people working for them do.  I can be on-board with that.

 Essentialy this, and just about every squad mate you recruit, you can tell the same thing. And some opportunities to perhaps send some vital Cerberus information to other sources may present themselves. I didn't mean to make it sound as though you could turn your gun on the Illusive man - I haven't figured out how to do that yet. But it it obvious you can work to bring them down in ME3, and seemingly abandon them in ME2 (at the end).

[DracoFulcrum]

If you talk Toombs down with the paragon choice, you get an email saying he's mad at you for working and if he sees you, you're dead.

Modifié par DracoFulcrum, 27 janvier 2010 - 09:26 .

[Rylor Tormtor]

DracoFulcrum wrote...

If you talk Toombs down with the paragon choice, you get an email saying he's mad at you for working and if he sees you, you're dead.

Ugh.

[TuringPoint]

You mean Toombs attacks you and dies? Or are you just trolling false information for kicks?

You can get Miranda on your side, as opposed to being with Cerberus, take that for whatever it's worth.

Modifié par Alocormin, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:19 .

[deimosmasque]

No Toombs sends you an e-mail saying that he's got his own Merc Team now and is taking down Cerberus and if he sees you he's taking you down too. You don't actually meet him or talk to him.

[TuringPoint]

So basically, the quest is supposed to make you feel like you got nothing accomplished, either way you resolve it.

I mean, I guess that's fair. To not show favoritism for Paragon or Renegade.  Definitely makes the choice slightly meaningless.

Modifié par Alocormin, 27 janvier 2010 - 10:28 .

[Rylor Tormtor]

Alocormin wrote...

So basically, the quest is supposed to make you feel like you got nothing accomplished, either way you resolve it.

I mean, I guess that's fair. To not show favoritism for Paragon or Renegade.  Definitely makes the choice slightly meaningless.

Slightly?

Don't you mean completely?

I understand that this is a little, tiny minute thing that isn't a big deal in the overall picture. With all the hype on how our choices will affect the way ME2 works, I am disappointed in BIoware, for the first time in a ten years.

And yes, I am being over dramatic. It is the internet.