20 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Is it just me or are the events that took place since the beginning of Dragon Age Origins is due to Flemeth or is foreshadowed by her?

 

I mean let us look at her words and actions.

 

Stolen Throne :- Sets Maric up for freeing Ferelden from Orlais and foreshadows Loghain's betrayal at Ostagar.

 

The Fifth's Blight's is a greater threat than the Wardens realize :- Foreshadowing of the Architect in Awakening. Previous Blights were not started in this fashion.

 

Knowing what the Inquisition is up against a threat better than anyone could imagine :- Foreshadowing of Corypheus as someone who was being used by the Dread Wolf.

 

Sending Morrigan off to join the Hero of Ferelden and Alistair :- To obtain Urthemiel's soul for some form of grand purpose and to let Morrigan become powerful enough to take her place one day.

 

Telling Morrigan about how she lost her actual Grimoire :- So that Morrigan might find it, turn against her and yet go around to do her work by restoring or preserving magic of the old and ancient artifacts like the Eluvians.

 

Leliana's vision :- I think this vision was given to her by Flemeth as well to get her out of the mundane life. As we all know, Leliana goes on to find the Inquisition. What's more, Leliana could end up becoming the Divine and if she does, she grants freedom to mages, which none of the other Divine options do. Flemeth / Mythal is a mage.

 

Hawke family :- To allow her to survive her encounter with Morrigan and the Hero of Ferelden in the near future.

 

Hawke family :- The Blight and Flemeth brought the only 2 people who had Malcolm Hawke's blood to Kirkwall. Kirkwall, the place that is near Vimmark Chasm, which was a prison for Corypheus. Corypheus later gets freed and causes the Inquisition to come into existence.

 

Temple of Mythal :- Someone powerful drinks from the Well, either Morrigan or the Inquisitor, and becomes her slave for eternity. Abelas gave that Well away too easily and just walked away right afterwards without putting too much of a fight.

 

Yavana :- Having another daughter to bring back Dragons to life in Thedas.

 

Tyrdda Bright Ax & her Elf lover - Prevented the Avvar from being manipulated like the ancient Tevinter magisters were.

 

I'm just saying that Flemeth appears to be playing some grand chess match against an unseen opponent that we have yet to be introduced to, using our playable characters as well as some NPCs as chess pieces.

[diaspora2k5]

Leliana's vision :- I think this vision was given to her by Flemeth as well to get her out of the mundane life. As we all know, Leliana goes on to find the Inquisition.

 

This... actually makes a lot of sense. Avernus gave Levi visions and dreams too.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

This... actually makes a lot of sense. Avernus gave Levi visions and dreams too.

 

I thought about how Leliana could have such an accurate vision and I realized that it was not the Maker, it was Flemeth / Mythal who did it.

 

Lothering is close to Flemeth's Hut in the Korcari Wilds. Leliana has the necessary Chantry connections and Orlesian connections to do things or get things done. Leliana is also a master of the Grand Game and she is quite intelligent, in the Sherlockian sense, for a non-mage.

 

What's more, Sandal banters in DA2 reveals that Flemeth is capable of appearing to someone in dreams. In DAI, we hear an Elf woman saying that Mythal came to her in her dreams in Val Royeaux. Since Flemeth herself say that she and Mythal are quite inseparable...Well...

 

Best of all, Leliana's faith in the Maker gives Flemeth is cover and smokescreen she needs. Leliana will never believe that she was visited by the Witch of the Wilds and in all probably, will and did rationalize her vision as one from the Maker. For all of Flemeth's disdain of the Chantry, she does not seem to have anything personal against the concept of the Maker. Just like how Dread Wolf, for all his disagreements with the Chantry, tells Cassandra that the concept of the Maker, a God that does not need to prove himself is a good one.

[King Killoth]

Flemeth told us what she was doing "a Reckoning" to take revenge on those that betrayed her. I think the other Elven gods tried to kill her as Abelas said to the Inquisitor. the old elven legends speak that the dreadwolf  tricked the other gods into the beyond. The dreadwolf is shown among the Mythal temple idles and is shown on the Eluvion with the Mythal dragon statues at the end after credit scene. I think solas as an outsider even among the gods as it was mentioned he was from the void and became a god later. I think solas and flemeth grew to be close friends and when she was betrayed Solas sealed them away. Mythal survived in a simular way that she survived DAO by putting part of herself in an amulet like she did with hawke.

[Vicious]

You may be onto something sir.

 

I still wonder at her desire for revenge, who is left to take revenge on? Who killed her?

[Illegitimus]

I don't think Flemeth had anything to do with Leliana's vision.  Her manipulations have a distinct M.O. that doesn't match it, and adding Leliana to the group actually gives Morrigan a rival for a male Warden.  In fact Leliana is consistently the opposite shoulder angel to Morrigan.  

[Zarathiel]

Leliana's vision :- I think this vision was given to her by Flemeth as well to get her out of the mundane life. As we all know, Leliana goes on to find the Inquisition. What's more, Leliana could end up becoming the Divine and if she does, she grants freedom to mages, which none of the other Divine options do. Flemeth / Mythal is a mage.

 

I agree with all of them but this one. It was all but explicitly stated that "Justinia" (i.e. the spirit we meet during Here Lies the Abyss) gave her that vision.

[Beomer]

I doubt they'll ever truly clarify up to what extent was Flemeth responsible for everything's happened. It's Thedas' biggest conspiracy theory with tinfoil hats flying all over the place.

It is very possible that she has over the ages, slowly and steadily played a game about which we do not know. It is also possible that she's planned events many times and at other times, she's just gambled and gotten lucky like managing to find Kieran when Morrigan or the Inquisitor drink from the Well of Sorrows.

The question does remain who's she fighting against. I had made a thread about that a while back, about who's Flemeth and Solas' antagonist. About who really 'betrayed' Mythal and why and how does Solas fit in. Sadly with the information we have at this point nothing concrete can be said.

All that aside, one thing that I can wager a fortune on, is that Flemeth is going to come back regardless of what's been shown in the post credits scene in DAI. In fact a mysterious last moment 'death' pretty much means that it's baiting the audience through suspense and the character is going to come back (ala Jon Snow). Flemeth is too important and too well written a character to kill off, and DA is not ASoIaF.

[Andromelek]

While I don't think Flemeth is evil, I think using her daughters as chess pieces is something dirty for her, I mean Morrigan was drove a little bit mad and lives scared, to the point to underestimate real dangers and overestimate anything related with Flemeth. And I don't think Yavana's life was much better, she had to deal with more hostile visitors than her mother and probably than any of her sisters and ultimately she was murdered being blamed for something that her mother (and partially something that Loghain and the Architect) did.

As for Flemeth's opponent, I think is a logical assessment to believe it's another "elven God" probably the Forgotten Ones, but given that they were already enemies, someone on the Creators' side may have joined to them, I think we will see an interesting villain, someone who will be for Dragon Age what Primordial (Gravemind) is for Halo, in my opinion this is something good, because all the villains we met were either mad dudes, savage beasts, had "righteous" goals or just were hungry of power, none of them was exactly a mastermind able to challenge Flemeth.

[Serza]

I've recently sided with the Sentinels at the Temple...

 

And combined with this, well... Hmm...

 

There's something about this thing.

[the Dame]

Well..

*starting from 3:50*

[TraiHarder]

Does anyone ever think that Flemeth may have been betrayed by the Maker and she her self or mythals power isn't strong enough to fight him so that's why she's building power by taking it from others?

She took the arch demons power from Morggians boy. She has a eternal slave with the inquisitor or Moriggan both very powerful. She then lastly took over Solas(which I don't care what people say that's what she did because he failed in his attempt to get to the city to find the maker) adding the power of the dread wolf to her fold.


I believe she was the one that put in motion coryphyous doing what he did so that he would open a way for her to get to the city to face and kill the maker


@Beomer
@Habits Honeypot
Good theory yes no thought please

[myahele]

I notice there's a general "chess" theme in Inquisition. War Table pieces aside, you see Cullen and Leliana or Dorian play chess, Bull and Solas plays and imaginary chess game in dialogue, and other such instances. 

 

I can't help but think that the Inquisition is just an important piece in the Grand Game these ancient people are playing.

 

There are many players in this Grand Game and we're just learning about them: Flemeth, Solas, Moon Men, Scaled Ones, Felassan's master who was stuck in an Eluvian and probably the Forgotten One's 

 

The "reckoning that will shake the heavens" makes me think that she just might try to unleash Elgar'nan. She may have already made up her mind and decides to let Elgar'nan do what he did best. Especially if we're to believe each god takes a certain concept. In the case of Mythal she's Justice and protector of the world. 

 

She and the world was betrayed and her judgement: bring out Elgar'nan to avenge the world

[TheKomandorShepard]

May i ask how saying fifth blight is greater threat than grey wardens think is foreshadowing architect?Pretty sure all architect did is taint an old god what could be done by any darkspawn not made it more threatening.

 

I doesn't look as Corypheus was used by Solas as far it looks like Solas tried use Corypheus and Corypheus screwd him over and took orb for himself and then solas joined inquisition to get it back.

 

How in first place flemeth would know what Malcolm Hawke did on deep roads?

 

Either way hope flemeth is gone i don't need in-universe character that knows script.

[Andromelek]

May i ask how saying fifth blight is greater threat than grey wardens think is foreshadowing architect?Pretty sure all architect did is taint an old god what could be done by any darkspawn not made it more threatening.
 
I doesn't look as Corypheus was used by Solas as far it looks like Solas tried use Corypheus and Corypheus screwd him over and took orb for himself and then solas joined inquisition to get it back.
 
How in first place flemeth would know what Malcolm Hawke did on deep roads?
 
Either way hope flemeth is gone i don't need in-universe character that knows script.

True that Witches of the wilds did not began the Blight, the only difference the Fifth had with the others was that rather than a mindless darkspawn corrupting the Archdemon, was Urthemiel's own priest.

I think Solas thought he could trust Corypheus, the text non-codex entries on the Fade suggest that rather to go and overthrow the Maker, the priests were desperate for something that happened on the Imperium and looked for aid.

I don't know why you think she knows the script, pretty sure she has shown she can screw it like any other person, anyhow I think you will be pleased, this time she got spiritual damage and I don't think she could come back from that, time to give her place to another character, guess.

[Dai Grepher]

Flemeth's manipulations are hit and miss. Saving the Warden is significant, but it was for her own purpose. The Dark Ritual can be refused. Training Morrigan to restore ancient magic and whatnot happened to work out in her favor, though inspiring this curiosity also led Morrigan to seek out the grimoires and eventually ask the Warden to kill Flemeth, which is a setback Flemeth had to plan for.

 

I think if Flemeth wanted to manipulate things better, she would have done something more significant at Ostagar other than save some treaties.

 

Also, Corypheus was always going to be released. It was just a question of when. The seals were weakening. Hawke was only used to make it happen faster, or during a time when the Wardens thought Corypheus could be controlled or killed.

[Aren]

I believe that you are overly suspicious/confident that everything happened was Flemeth doing when in most case it isn't.

This isn't to say that Flemeth isn't trying to do something,but is to say that not everything as to be explained as a Flemeth's plan.

-Leliana have nothing to do with Flemeth

-Urthemiel awakening as an Archdemon have nothing to do with Flemeth,the Architect found him and since Flemeth knew how to save him she tried to interfere

success or not it depends on the warden,Flemeth doesn't strike me as particularly caring about this old god,if he is saved she will come back,if not she doesn't care her plan don't need that soul.

Actually i just believe that she tried to save that dragon for nothing more than charity towards one of Mythal friends.

- Telling Morrigan about the grimoire and so what? The grimoire is not mandatory,actually that grimoire is one of Flemeth's Greatest mistake.

If she only teached to Morrigan this,her daughter would have never tried to kill her.

[Aren]

True that Witches of the wilds did not began the Blight, the only difference the Fifth had with the others was that rather than a mindless darkspawn corrupting the Archdemon, was Urthemiel's own priest.
 

Is a big difference,because it means that the AD never managed to call all the darkspawn at his support,because he was prematurely awakened not by the horde,but by one single individual.

Also he was stupid to not have waited more reinforcements,who cares on how many darkspawn will die,they are numberless

[myahele]

I think Flemeth probably has a bit of precognitive abilities.

 

She has an idea of what will happen in the future, kinda like Zonovia (?) the woman that "saw" the end fall of Tevinter Empire.

 

If a human can have such an ability, why not an Elvhen goddess? There's probably limitations to it, like seeing one of the many possible outcomes, but not really knowing their cause. 

 

I remember years back people believed that the Taint/Blight might block/ protect against precognition.

[Lil Green Vivi]

@ the Dame..

 

This is completely off topic - but I just wanted to thank you for posting that vid, it led me to a link of Solas getting punched = My fem elf and I both needed that!

 

Sorry for interrupting, please resume.

[Andromelek]

Is a big difference,because it means that the AD never managed to call all the darkspawn at his support,because he was prematurely awakened not by the horde,but by one single individual.
Also he was stupid to not have waited more reinforcements,who cares on how many darkspawn will die,they are numberless

Reinforcements? are you talking about the Architect? if you are, pretty sure his reinforcements wouldn't make things be anything better, his friends are either darkspawn or grey wardens, so, pretty sure Urthemiel would be screwed anyway.

And for the record, humans also seem to be numberless but less ugly.