85 réponses à ce sujet

[Drasca]

Also, 'everyone has it easier than the second time around? Pandora Box has been opened?'. My team has been beating Heartbreaker on Tevinter Ruins repeatedly since the Challenges were added, despite the fact that they have never counted towards completion. In this picture I had 118 Prestige points less than I have now,

 

Did you show the public video then though, nope.

 

118 is nothing considering you max promotion defense to regardless, and so does at least Jailson in addition to bis weapons. I don't know about the other guys, but they're definitely geared for it, as everyone has Hakkon Weapons there and +Damage or Guard dagger

 

I did it in beta and upon release, and didn't look at it again because it wasn't a challenge and 'time trials' weren't important.

 

This whole post reeks of 'brag', but there's nothing great to brag about considering the most OP solo class + easiest aggro manager  was used, on a private team that's contiuously playing with themselves.

 

Proto and Snakebite's efforts are a bit more impressive considering they had a pug (beerfish) rather than a set group and there was no easy invincibility / guard involved.

[Snakebite]

Proto and Snakebite's efforts are a bit more impressive considering they had a pug (beerfish) rather than a set group and there was no easy invincibility / guard involved.

Don't forget our inferior input devices. i.e. controllers.

[Drasca]

PS. Since we are console peasants and are stuck using controllers, does anyone think we should have some time shaved off? Ya know, controllers being such a hindrance and all. Drasca?

 

LOL I did say 'most' people AND without a lot of promotes. Also to be fair, most pugs die playing KB and Mouse too LOL.

 

You actually chose classes that don't require much targetting, with exception of your pug. He did good.

[Beerfish]

[Wavebend]

Dwarves titans on venatori when?

 

edit: oh hey, 1000th post

[HeroicMass]

 

 

you'd think with 6 badges and 21K+ posts you could finally elevate above rodney dangerfield status

[Beerfish]

 

This does remind me of me entering a damp lobby.  Oh, Heroic Mass is Ted Knight in this clip....(booyaa!)

[LearnedHand]

If you guys want to be systematic about competing you should include total number of team promotions and number of deaths (0, <4, 4+) alongside all the relevant match details.

 

More vids please. 

[Drasca]

If you guys want to be systematic about competing you should include total number of team promotions and number of deaths (0, <4, 4+) alongside all the relevant match details.

 

More vids please. 

 

Totally this. Half my team had terrible gear and promotes, and didn't play with each other regularly, and people dared criticize their win with 'but they rejoined'. Seriously, terrible.

 

Wins from people with end game gear, promotes and strongest classes in private matches of regular teams all on voice chat are to be expected. Trying to play with people who're undergeared / unprepared? Much more of a challenge.

[LearnedHand]

Well, I didn't intend my comments to be a criticism of anyone or any attempt in particular. I made a post a month ago asking about heartbreaker vids and now they are trickling out and I want to see more. I want to see good teams pushing each other to do better but not all attempts should be judged in the same way obviously. I like vids since we don't just read the box score but also like to see how the match is played.

 

So let the games begin!

[SpaceV3gan]

 

118 is nothing considering you max promotion defense to regardless, and so does at least Jailson in addition to bis weapons. I don't know about the other guys, but they're definitely geared for it, as everyone has Hakkon Weapons there and +Damage or Guard dagger

Your first post gave me the impression that you said you had lead the way for Spirit Tonic usage and Tevinter Heartbreaker games through your video. I just wanted to make it somewhat clear that I had been playing lots of Heartbreaker there before that.

 

 

Totally this. Half my team had terrible gear and promotes, and didn't play with each other regularly, and people dared criticize their win with 'but they rejoined'. Seriously, terrible.

Rejoin to reset lives is still an exploit, isn't it?
It is certainly not a gamebreaking exploit in my book, I even called it counter-productive in the past given the risk of XP loss in case of wipes as well as the risk of join/rejoin bugs. I don't really care if players do it in their private teams.

Nevertheless, I do not think it is something that could be accepted and therefore encouraged as a shortcut for not having promotions, gear and experience enough to get games completed. Moreover, If having strong teams kill the challenge of playing Heartbreaker as it is meant to be, what can be said about being alive when you are supposed to be in the Fade?

[Wavebend]

I do not think it is something that could be accepted and therefore encouraged as a shortcut for not having promotions, gear and experience enough to get games completed.

 

Wait...

 

Here it comes...

 

Working as intended.

[Drasca]

Your first post gave me the impression that you said you had lead the way for Spirit Tonic usage and Tevinter Heartbreaker games through your video. I just wanted to make it somewhat clear that I had been playing lots of Heartbreaker there before that.

 

I led the way for public video. You can claim whatever you like in private, but it wasn't shown publicly first. I played HB in Beta privately before you too, and with worse stats and gear.

 

 

Rejoin to reset lives is still an exploit, isn't it?

 

 

Wait...

 

Here it comes...

 

Working as intended.

 

Hahaha exactly what WB said. The only people that get to officially designate exploit are devs. . . Since they wrote the code to work this way there is no exploit involved. There is no way rejoining alive cannot be a either conscious decision or one they allow because its decided to be more fun this way. Realistically it only affects private teams, which has an innately easier time regardless.

 

I doubt you'd be able to pug HB, if only for the reasons that, as you once complained, no one shows up to your public lobbies due to how the matchmaking servers are setup and how the network works (let alone actual game reasons).

 

You also still don't get your objectives aren't everyone else's. You grind for xp, and that's the entire game to you and leaderboard the only objective. It is certainly not the only objective for the rest of us, and your perspective isn't the only valid one. It is definitely invalid for some of us.

 

Really, my video was bringing a group of friends that've never done HB before as a team, half of which undergeared, with absolutely far from ideal circumstances, but triumphing over them despite that. We played with handicaps and demonstrated that was possible for everyone to do so. You just demonstrated par for course, with OP gear stats and a regular team, after the fact ours was showed.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

I thought the dunderdome was dead, but threads like this make me realize it's alive and kicking with some NaCi to boot!

[SpaceV3gan]

I led the way for public video. You can claim whatever you like in private, but it wasn't shown publicly first. I played HB in Beta privately before you too, and with worse stats and gear.

 

As you wish, I am not denying that, evidently there is no way I could. I am just glad we got over the Spirit Tonic resist "Pandora's box - you followed the exact same end map configuration and resist pot usage I did"  part of this conversation.
 

 

 

Hahaha exactly what WB said. The only people that get to officially designate exploit are devs. . . Since they wrote the code to work this way there is no exploit involved. There is no way rejoining alive cannot be a either conscious decision or one they allow because its decided to be more fun this way. Realistically it only affects private teams, which has an innately easier time regardless.

Conjectures. The fact rejoins with the purpose of Fade escaping were widely used during Beta testing and, according to rumours, even promoted, don't make them a valid practice to overcome challenges; unless the developers have stated they are fine.

Regardless, I had not criticized that taking place in your video at first. People brought up the question whether Hearbreaker could be done without rejoining, and I wanted to show them that it could, as well as that it could be farmed via speedruns.
 

 

 

I doubt you'd be able to pug HB

So do I. That is why I have never claimed such a thing.

 

 

You also still don't get your objectives aren't everyone else's. You grind for xp, and that's the entire game to you and leaderboard the only objective. It is certainly not the only objective for the rest of us, and your perspective isn't the only valid one. It is definitely invalid for some of us.

I do get it. That is why I defended that rejoining to reset lives, if considered an exploit, is certainly not a gamebreaking one given that it awards no XP output advantage whatsoever.

[Drasca]

So do I. That is why I have never claimed such a thing

 

It is funny the XB1 people did. At least two groups on video, unless Medallian's group wasn't a pug (he usually does though). I'm still jealous how they seem to be able to connect overseas without much issue.

[Kyo Yagami]

We finally had the chance to run a HB game last night.

The following is the result of our first attempt against Red Tramplers. It was actually just a trial run, sorry that we do not have video.



One of our teammates needed to bow out after the match, something about his dog needing to be fed or something. Typical Beerfish...

Hopefully we can get video of a better time sometime soon.


PS. Since we are console peasants and are stuck using controllers, does anyone think we should have some time shaved off? Ya know, controllers being such a hindrance and all. Drasca?

Three days away from the game and a group manages to beat us... Awesome. In their first try.

Please try to film next time. Maybe you can use your cellphone? I want to see the whole chaos of wave 5, just like I saw wavebend doing. Tomorrow I ll get home and I think that we will try Venatori. "Dwarf Titans The Last Assault".

BTW, MayconPato and I used a controller too. I can't use a KB at all.

[Pork]

Totally this. Half my team had terrible gear and promotes, and didn't play with each other regularly, and people dared criticize their win with 'but they rejoined'. Seriously, terrible.

Wins from people with end game gear, promotes and strongest classes in private matches of regular teams all on voice chat are to be expected. Trying to play with people who're undergeared / unprepared? Much more of a challenge.

Yeah spacevegan, your run is totally unimpressive because you used the same potions i did. Also my slower and poorly excecuted run where i screamed yolo into the mic and had my team cheat by leaving/rejoining when they died is way more impressive.

[SpaceV3gan]

It is funny the XB1 people did. At least two groups on video, unless Medallian's group wasn't a pug (he usually does though). I'm still jealous how they seem to be able to connect overseas without much issue.

All these games happened in Private lobbies. Unless Private is the new Public which I am not aware of.
Obviously there is a chance of a 4th competent and experienced player landing in a well established team of three players and deciding to stay there for a few runs. If this 4th player is a BSNer, there is even the chance that he will be inclined to partake in some friendly forum competition. It is not the same as playing Heartbreaker with three complete strangers. The idea of "pug game" can be very vague.

Given the level of communication and interaction, I am pretty sure Medallian played with three players who had been playing among themselves for some time. Also, if Medallian is from East or South USA, he should be fine connecting and playing with players from Latin America, at least via private invitation.

[Drasca]

 if Medallian is from East or South USA, he should be fine connecting and playing with players from Latin America, at least via private invitation.

 

I've watched his streams and there's no issues that I can tell. I remember when you had to join mid game, or it wouldn't work at all.  I don't know if that's the case with every player and connection though.

 

Matchmaking may or may not be better on console. I don't have enough information to confirm though.

[Spin-Orbit]

You also still don't get your objectives aren't everyone else's. You grind for xp, and that's the entire game to you and leaderboard the only objective. It is certainly not the only objective for the rest of us, and your perspective isn't the only valid one. It is definitely invalid for some of us.

Drasca since when did you join the scrubs r us party? after your 500th promotion or 600?

[Drasca]

Drasca since when did you join the scrubs r us party? after your 500th promotion or 600?

 

LOL I've never been a pure exp grinder, otherwise I'd never visit all the classes and discover what's good about them, or master the more esoteric ones like Assassin. If I purely did grinding, I would've stuck to the same classes like those AW scrubs early on, and I never would've had all the builds I do.

 

Heck, with the new equipment buffs, even alchemist is getting powerful in NM. The number of mines tossed out is ridiculous with max stamina gear and secondary daggers popping procs on everything.

 

Certain classes I avoided and could not recommend before now because they were just too weak before these equipment buffs, but it isn't like I played purely hipster classes or purely grind classes like certain people I know.

 

I like some variety.

[Spin-Orbit]

LOL I've never been a pure exp grinder, otherwise I'd never visit all the classes and discover what's good about them, or master the more esoteric ones like Assassin. If I purely did grinding, I would've stuck to the same classes like those AW scrubs early on, and I never would've had all the builds I do.

 

Heck, with the new equipment buffs, even alchemist is getting powerful in NM. The number of mines tossed out is ridiculous with max stamina gear and secondary daggers popping procs on everything.

 

Certain classes I avoided and could not recommend before now because they were just too weak before these equipment buffs, but it isn't like I played purely hipster classes or purely grind classes like certain people I know.

 

I like some variety.

I don't think everything is black and white as you paint it here. I consider myself a grinder but  i see doing challenges mean, i use characters until i hit 250 runs, i get to know them and put them away and when i pick them up again they seem fresh. Only thing? I don't see myself getting 250 done with SS due to cunning max issue. I haven't played the Alchemist is a while but watching a friend love that Luka, we did a NM run with two level 1 (i was on lego andother frined on SS) and level 13 Luka Elven Runis against the Darkspawn and she wrecked it. So the balance of fun seems to have shifted towards the rogues, too bad for grinders.

 

Otherwise grinding still is fun, my playthroughs don't maximize experience, gold, nor speed. When i play with strong friends it gets done faster when more scrubby friends are in it goes a little slower. All characters are played and enjoyed. So don't start spreading that it is about promoting AW only perhaps it was in the days long ago, but that was long ago.

 

HB is still very challenging and i believe that there is so much hot air on BSN about people who talk about how easy it is for them with or without high stats. In the promotion game there is ultimate reduction in return, soloing NM with a level 1 is really out of the question for practical purposes not for "look what i have done", yet 2 or 3 level 1's can do it. Most promoted players can solo perilous with level 1 easily. Will 500/500/200 stats allow you to translate that into HB? No. Promotes beyond 200/200/200 is just for the fun and grinding sake and bragging right among friends.

[Drasca]

I don't think everything is black and white as you paint it here. I consider myself a grinder but  ..

 

I'm mostly referring to Space Vegan and his constant remarks that only Exp / time matters to him. He takes this view as universal instead of personal, projecting the idea that's the end-goal in all his statements. That isn't relevant to other people, because a lot of others aren't obsessed with the leaderboard. So his grind idea is clearly false, because as you point out: there's other goals.

 

As for HB:
Definitely doable with the right party and SOME gear regardless of stats, but a challenge then. Challenge scales downward with increased promotions. Bragging about speed runs with promotes and end game gear + OP kits + private parties isn't much of a brag when the challenge is greatly reduced to begin with. 

 

Again on XB1, they might've done private lobbies but it wasn't a private regular team. There were definitely pugs on both XB1 teams, as I know Medallian doesn't regularly play with that group, and Beerfish was outted as a pug. That increases the challenge rating quite a bit.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Bragging about speed runs with promotes and end game gear + OP kits + private parties isn't much of a brag when the challenge is greatly reduced to begin with. 

 

I think you missed the point... Speed running is all about completing a run as fast as possible, no matter what. This means using everything at your disposal to decrease your time. It's like spawn nuking in ME3MP. Was it boring and borderline exploitative? Absolutely! But it also required knowledge and teamwork to get spawn-blocking and timing down right. It's similar here.

 

What you may want to start is something like that one challenge series from ME3MP, where you have to, say, solo Platinum Nightmare with a specific kit against a specific enemy. That would be interesting to see.

 

My point is that the "bragging" here is all about whom has the lowest final time, no matter what. Criticizing them for not doing it with handicaps just makes you sound salty that you can't compete.

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: I neither have the promotions, gear, or desire to be ready for a regular Heartbreaker match unless I am being carried hardcore. I also do not find speed runs to be that much fun in any game personally. I do, however, recognize the effort and applaud the accomplishment.