3173 réponses à ce sujet

[Reezus Christ]

Moderation in this thread has been fair. However, if someone sees moderation as a tool that should reflect particular personal biases it's possible their perception of moderation may be skewed to favor their hypocrisies. 

 

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On a related note:

It's notable but unsurprising that after 100 pages there is hardly anyone from OT that thinks their own behavior contributed to this closure. Lots of blame heaped on BW though. 

Well, I know I didn't do anything so why would I place blame upon myself?

[N7M]

Well, I know I didn't do anything so why would I place blame upon myself?

No warnings and no bans for anything you've posted in OT? No need to get into specifics. 

[Zeroth Angel]

No warnings and no bans for anything you've posted in OT? No need to get into specifics. 

I don't have a single warning point or ban and I know that there were other people that only got their first warning/ban when they came here after they saw that BW closed down the OT section.

[LPPrince]

No warnings and no bans for anything you've posted in OT? No need to get into specifics. 

 

Can't speak for Reezy or anyone but myself but I know I didn't.

[Reezus Christ]

No warnings and no bans for anything you've posted in OT? No need to get into specifics. 

Nope. Not that it would even matter. I don't know what kind of problem child behavior you have in your head that would warrant closing Off Topic but I figured MODERATING would be the go to solution for keeping the big bad Off Topic in line.

[N7M]

Can't speak for Reezy or anyone but myself but I know I didn't.

It could be the entire OT user base is blameless for this closure and it's a strategy move on BW/EA's part, as FastJimmy has suggested. If I took his meaning properly. 

[N7M]

The only copy-cat thing I've been noticing lately has been the Andromeda section's, "Something something- thoughts?" which has funnily enough annoyed me to the point of making me avoid that section just so I don't have to see it all the time.

The most recent copycats that I can recall from the OT were the numerous "I'm leaving" threads. 

[Reezus Christ]

It could be the entire OT user base is blameless for this closure and it's a strategy move on BW/EA's part, as FastJimmy has suggested. If I took his meaning properly. 

What blame is there to be placed on OT's user base that couldn't be solved with better moderation? Fast Jimmy's most likely right on the money though. This isn't the same "BioWare Social Network" that people like myself enjoyed being a part of for years. BioWare's goals for this place have clearly changed and they probably don't want people here anymore.

[DaemionMoadrin]

No warnings and no bans for anything you've posted in OT? No need to get into specifics. 

 

Nope, nothing from there.

 

If we went by subforums that generate the most warning points and suspensions, then we'd have to close the Dragon Age and Mass Effect forums completely.

[N7M]

What blame is there to be placed on OT's user base that couldn't be solved with better moderation? Fast Jimmy's most likely right on the money though. This isn't the same "BioWare Social Network" that people like myself enjoyed being a part of for years. BioWare's goals for this place have clearly changed and they probably don't want people here anymore.

All our speculations are a limited take on what we know and understand of this closure. The real reasons are likely more complex than our musings. Which is to be expected since we don't have knowledge of discussions in the background or how BW performance metrics for OT are determined and evaluated. 

 

What blame is there to be placed on OT's user base that couldn't be solved with better moderation?

 

Maybe moderation had been attempted but failed to accomplish the minimum of what was hoped. There hasn't been a lot of information released about this closure. If BW wants to help people acknowledge and change behaviors before reopening OT they'll have to be very specific and direct about what was wrong, what was tried and how everyone can move forward. 

[Fast Jimmy]

PAX ended yesterday, I imagine people had to help clean up after the event actually ended. Then if they were to fly out last night, it would have been late (ie getting home at 1am).

Or they were flying back today, or later (if they wanted to spend some vacation days there).

This might be the longest flight layover in the history of mankind, I suppose?

[LPPrince]

This might be the longest flight layover in the history of mankind, I suppose?

 

Or the forums just aren't the highest priority.

[Commander Rpg]

This might be the longest flight layover in the history of mankind, I suppose?

I can't tell, but I obviously don't expect an apology, nor a backpedal from the previous doing.

If it was a rare happening one week ago, now it's impossible.

[Big Magnet]

This might be the longest flight layover in the history of mankind, I suppose?

I think they ditched the plane tickets in favor of a more eco-friendly transportation method.

 

Spoiler

[Reezus Christ]

All our speculations are a limited take on what we know and understand of this closure. The real reasons are likely more complex than our musings. Which is to be expected since we don't have knowledge of discussions in the background or how BW performance metrics for OT are determined and evaluated. 

 

What blame is there to be placed on OT's user base that couldn't be solved with better moderation?

 

Maybe moderation had been attempted but failed to accomplish the minimum of what was hoped. There hasn't been a lot of information released about this closure. If BW wants to help people acknowledge and change behaviors before reopening OT they'll have to be very specific and direct about what was wrong, what was tried and how everyone can move forward. 

 It's hard to know what BioWare has tried, if anything, when they won't talk to the forum about it. Lack of communication rears its ugly head again. That's been one of this forum's bigger issues for awhile. Probably a bigger killer than any of the dastardly shenanigans Off Topic gets up to.

[Iakus]

All our speculations are a limited take on what we know and understand of this closure. The real reasons are likely more complex than our musings. Which is to be expected since we don't have knowledge of discussions in the background or how BW performance metrics for OT are determined and evaluated. 

 

So, what we need an Extended Cut, for clarity and closure?  

[Inquisitor Recon]

What's with the the masochists here saying how we deserved to be punished by Bioware? That's some messed up thinking.

[pdusen]

Not being able to post in a particular subforum is a punishment, apparently.

[LPPrince]

I wish Bioware was as open with us as Roosterteeth is. https://redvsblue.com/post/51174807

[Commander Rpg]

Not being able to post in a particular subforum is a punishment, apparently.

It's an unreasonable and unpopular measure.

It's a wrong done on the good users that weren't giving issues.

It's a loophole to avoid the proper moderation for the social corner of the forum. Moderation that was poorly executed even when that corner was active and used.

 

I still remember when I opened a topic to speak about serious matters, and it was flooded by anarchist users ("I post where I want, when I want and the way I want"), without any determinant intervention of a single moderator and despite my frequent reports.

Is that moderating for you? What was the best solution, to drown the whole place instead of bringing arse-kicking and law?

 

Ironically, punishment is what was needed. Now the sane regulars are suffering from an unjust measure, which is a mockery, an insult to the intellect.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Lol @ the people in this thread who still don't realise that BioWare is intentionally trying to kill large sections of their community.

They want to purge the majority of high engagement users from this place for the purposes of making it easier to manage. The argument of trolls or whatever is semantics. They don't really care if you've been a good citizen or not. Just look at LPPrince, he's the definition of a good forum citizen and he's probably impacted the most of anyone who posts or posted here. If you are a good citizen but not directly contributing to BioWare by plugging them on social media or giving their devs an ego boost, they want you gone. If you have a negative opinion on BioWare about anything and can articulate that, they want you gone. The prevalence of meme OC about BioWare and ME 3 using content ripped from the (old) BSN could be a contributing factor. Much of the fury, memes and OC about the Mass Effect 3 endings originated from this place and they really don't want a repeat of that. The added bonus is that high engagement users remaining are more likely to regurgitate marketing points and defend BioWare at all costs.

Most high engagement users with a negative, mixed, or even somewhat positive outlook on BioWare's games and business practices aren't going to stay because their purpose for coming here don't hinge on BioWare's games, but community and interaction with others. These changes weed out high engagement users who aren't dedicated to talking specifically about BioWare's games. This is especially apparent at a time like now, when Dragon Age: Inquisition Discussion is winding down, yet few details about Mass Effect: Andromeda have been released. What else is there to talk about that hasn't been done? Such an environment will only encourage low engagement posters or the highly dedicated.

I don't just mean Off-Topic section either, so don't think this is just about The Lobby. Off-Topic Groups, the Feed, Galleries, Blogs, Poll section. It's just another step in an undeniable trend. The end result is a forum circlejerk of the highly dedicated users, a smattering of low engagement posters and the occasional contrarian that makes troll threads that are then spammed for wrongthink. Other changes, like merging the character section into story and lore also has the added effect of burying lore and story discussion/analysis under the mountains of character appreciation/waifu threads that the BioWare fanbase is drawn to like moths to the flame.

People are then pushed to other avenues to continue their discussions, reddit for longform discussion, twitter for news and information or tumblr for OC like fanfiction and artwork. Sites where they don't have to deal with moderation and management.

But BioWare is too afraid to pull the bandaid off in one go, so they patronisingly tell us that it's for our own good and that they're building the community up, when it's clear that they're doing the opposite. They can have the best of both worlds: a strong, vibrant forum community that's not as chaotic as present, but that actually requires effort and resources on the part of BioWare and it's Community Team. The two things they absolutely don't want to expend on this place.

[Fidite Nemini]

No, Not quite what i meant. But you're getting close. There's a point you mentioned that was accurate, There is a difference between whining uncontrollably, Which is called toxicity, and making constructive argumentative criticism. And most of the lobby users were the former, Not the latter. And some of them spread it to the gaming forums, Which was a bad thing. Some of the lobby users were good, No argument here, But the vast majority was bad. And i see now that the forums' toxicity levels have been decreased a bit since they closed it because many of the lobby users deactivated their accounts. Which is remarkable really because it portrays that they were only interested in the forums itself, Not the discussion of the games BioWare has to offer. Which is another reason why i think that was a proper decision. I don't always agree with the mods, And i still think the moderation system on here needs some modifications, But i have come to realize that the latest changes were actually good, Not bad. Of course every forum needs its "Lobby", Off-topic section as i suggested, But the whole thing really went out of control. Maybe sometimes later they will reopen it and things could go great. I didn't notice all of this at first because i had been spending sometime off the forums because of the same lobby users and their toxicity. But then came back to check on my groups' friends and then they happened to close the off-topic during that period and i first opposed the the core of removing the lobby idea from the forums, But as i said, I now see that it's for the greater good.

 

I feel there's a lot of confirmation bias at work here.

 

I hadn't seen much negativity going around before Offtopic got closed and I haven't experienced any noticable change on user behaviour in the ontopic sections from the previous norm.

 

And again, I'll go out and say the offtopic was one of the least toxic forum sections around. And by all means, even if I'm suffering from some bad bias as an (formerly) active Offtopic regular, if any amount of toxicity on the Offtopic actually warranted this move, then how come that say the ME3 MP section is still open? Even if it's no longer as bad as it was during its heydays (Need I remind the horrible tuesdays whenever balance tweaks were announced? You positively couldn't use the forum for the day, it was such a mess!), right now it's significantly more spam than not.

 

Likewise, if Offtopic was so horrible, may someone please point me to those cesspools of toxicity before the whole section gets deleted? I want to see that bad side of the offtopic section that I appear to have successfully avoided/ignored.

 

 

 

Either way, the first and foremost course of action BioWare had and imho should have used is to implement some proper moderation. Because there was none. Hell, for the better part of the month prior to the lockdown, Offtopic was used as the forum's trashbin by the mods as they just moved spam threads here without even locking them. If there had been any noticable increase in negative behaviour in Offtopic just before the lockdown, it was EXACTLY because the mods dropped it there.

 

No one, not a single person on this whole planet Earth can tell me that was how moderation should look like. And as such, before BioWare just axes an entire active forum subsection with practically no warning whatsoever as far as the reality of it went, they should've dropped the clearly not working current moderation and replace it with something that actually works and for one actually follows the site's ToS by not moving spam threads someplace else where they're just the same spam. This is a website where you can get moderated by quoting content that violates the ToS even if you weren't the culprit. So clearly the logic should be the same: if you just take spam and instead of locking it move it someplace else, spam is still spam and by proxy, the person who did this deed was spamming him-/herself.

 

Say, how many warning points do the various mods have?

 

Because they sure knew this whole Offtopic as a trashbin thing was going on. I myself had reported my fair share of such moved threads so they'd get properly locked instead of dumped on our heads (which btw more often than not didn't yield any results)!

[bEVEsthda]

I feel there's a lot of confirmation bias at work here.

 

I hadn't seen much negativity going around before Offtopic got closed and I haven't experienced any noticable change on user behaviour in the ontopic sections from the previous norm.

 

And again, I'll go out and say the offtopic was one of the least toxic forum sections around.  

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<SNIP> (for brevity)

 

That was well put, I think, and touched most thoughts Leo8Skylar's post stirred in my own head. Thank you. Whether he (Leo8) is right or wrong, and right and wrong about Bioware's intents, is not something I intend to argue one way or other though. But there is an overwhelming possibility of powerful confirmation bias.

 

As for what Bioware want, and how they intend to go about achieving it, it's a great mystery to me. As of now.

Meanwhile, while we wait to see it clearer, there are some other concerns that are gaining substance and solidity for every day that goes by. And those comes from how EA/Bioware have handled this.

I can't be alone in thinking I would feel very soiled, tainted, when I buy something from Bioware again? Simply because it's easy to, at some emotional level, take things personal. Certainly, no one in his right mind would ever visit a store again, treated like this. To me, Bioware's silence and strange absence of clear intentions are more offensive than removing OT. ...Or have become so, over time.

Didn't they think this through? Do they think "Talk to the hand" is a lesser evil than risk poking a wasp nest?

 

Luckily, there was this coincident patch with new DA:I costumes replacing the beige pajamas, that helps resetting one's mind on Bioware. Bioware is a big place with lots of different groups of people. No matter how their PR and marketing struggles ineffectively, there are still people and developers who want to do something nice and improve their product. (Which is the reason I said "when" above, and not "if").

[Deathangel008]

still no official response? lame.
seriously @ bioware, when you really hate us so much and want to get rid of us (what you obviously do) then please grow some balls and ****** tell this to us straight instead of hiding behind hypocritical phrases ("a better experience on our forums", "create a stronger forum community" my ass). the way you treat us here just sucks and shows no respect at all.