3173 réponses à ce sujet

[Liamv2]

Oh are we talking about Biower moderation again? That's always fun to talk about. Remember that time OT had a bunch of spam threads they moved a spam thread from the other sections and locked it days later while leaving the other ones open? I will never forget that nonsense.

[Gravisanimi]

Remember when we had 3 Fallout 4 threads, and the mods moved another one into OT from another section? Fun times.

[Liamv2]

Remember when we had 3 Fallout 4 threads, and the mods moved another one into OT from another section? Fun times.

 

That was hilarious. Especially when conversations from other threads ended up in all 4 of the threads making it hard as **** to follow what was going on.

[TobiTobsen]

I feel there's a lot of confirmation bias at work here.

 

I hadn't seen much negativity going around before Offtopic got closed and I haven't experienced any noticable change on user behaviour in the ontopic sections from the previous norm.

 

And again, I'll go out and say the offtopic was one of the least toxic forum sections around. And by all means, even if I'm suffering from some bad bias as an (formerly) active Offtopic regular, if any amount of toxicity on the Offtopic actually warranted this move, then how come that say the ME3 MP section is still open? Even if it's no longer as bad as it was during its heydays (Need I remind the horrible tuesdays whenever balance tweaks were announced? You positively couldn't use the forum for the day, it was such a mess!), right now it's significantly more spam than not.

 

Likewise, if Offtopic was so horrible, may someone please point me to those cesspools of toxicity before the whole section gets deleted? I want to see that bad side of the offtopic section that I appear to have successfully avoided/ignored.

 

 

 

Either way, the first and foremost course of action BioWare had and imho should have used is to implement some proper moderation. Because there was none. Hell, for the better part of the month prior to the lockdown, Offtopic was used as the forum's trashbin by the mods as they just moved spam threads here without even locking them. If there had been any noticable increase in negative behaviour in Offtopic just before the lockdown, it was EXACTLY because the mods dropped it there.

 

No one, not a single person on this whole planet Earth can tell me that was how moderation should look like. And as such, before BioWare just axes an entire active forum subsection with practically no warning whatsoever as far as the reality of it went, they should've dropped the clearly not working current moderation and replace it with something that actually works and for one actually follows the site's ToS by not moving spam threads someplace else where they're just the same spam. This is a website where you can get moderated by quoting content that violates the ToS even if you weren't the culprit. So clearly the logic should be the same: if you just take spam and instead of locking it move it someplace else, spam is still spam and by proxy, the person who did this deed was spamming him-/herself.

 

Say, how many warning points do the various mods have?

 

Because they sure knew this whole Offtopic as a trashbin thing was going on. I myself had reported my fair share of such moved threads so they'd get properly locked instead of dumped on our heads (which btw more often than not didn't yield any results)!

 

Seems to me like BioWare is approaching this "problem" like they handle "problems" in their games.

 

Feature isn't working or appreciated properly? We could fix it.... or... we could scrap it! 100 BioWare points for the candidate! Scrapping it is!

[Monica21]

The fact that this thread is just being ignored in the (apparent) hopes that if they just ignore us we'll go away is starting to just ****** me off.

[Fast Jimmy]

Or the forums just aren't the highest priority.

Or they don't plan on ever responding, regardless of priorities.

This thread was successful at containing the crazy after the fact. A nice little echo chamber to let all the steam blow off so we didn't invade the other forums.



Besides basic decency, this actually was pretty well executed to avoid the least amount of work or collateral damage to the forums.

[Dio Demon]

Mods being better?

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

When they're actually willing to reply to the necessary PM's I'll say they're better until then, incompetent.

[Commander Rpg]

This thread was successful at containing the crazy after the fact. A nice little echo chamber to let all the steam blow off so we didn't invade the other forums.
Besides basic decency, this actually was pretty well executed to avoid the least amount of work or collateral damage to the forums.

If you or others would have started to spam or protest into other forums, you would have been banned, they would have accomplished the objective anyway.

In my country we use to say, when a single entity or a group has the power to do whatever he wants, he "holds the knife by the handle". Try to hold the knife by the blade and use it to fight, let's see what happens.

[Fidite Nemini]

The thing is, No one goes around saying I'm a toxic bad person, Nobody thinks that, It's felt by others. And the fact that you had no problem with the thing shows that you maybe have been a part of the problem. ME3MP section isn't closed, According to my conclusion, Because All i have seen there are a few people who like their toxic part of the forums so much but they never go outside of it. When they did, It created extra toxicity in the ME:A section, And it was noticeable.

As i have stated, No one is saying the decision is perfect, And no one is saying the moderation system on here is perfect, But I, Myself, Have seen improvements. Both on the moderation side and the users side. The problem with your conclusion is that you're jumping to conclusions based on your anger and disapproval of the decision, Not based on neutral analysis. Mine is based on what I have seen and observed, But i still think it can be wrong because i don't have all the facts. But, Yes,  Moderating the off-topic has dropped sharply in the last period as did their moderation of all sections of the forums really. I rarely saw any mod active, It took days for them to act on a report from me. So, All the facts we have here are that we had a drop in the moderation and the toxicity of the forums.

 

Since you believe that I am too biased to see how Offtopic was so toxic, why not act on my question I had posed and tell me exactly how it was toxic and/or more toxic than any other place in this forum.

 

Because your supposed neutral observations right now amount to just you saying "well, I observed, hence it's fact".

 

But, Yes,  Moderating the off-topic has dropped sharply in the last period as did their moderation of all sections of the forums really. I rarely saw any mod active, It took days for them to act on a report from me. So, All the facts we have here are that we had a drop in the moderation and the toxicity of the forums.

 

And this part here confuses me. Might be it's just worded poorly, because surely you don't mean to say that the absence of moderator action is indicative of the community behaving differently.

 

And as for the supposed drop of toxicity (which I still think is a term that's been used inflatedly as a way to pass around blame), show me that toxicity please. I haven't seen any noteworthy stuff going on. ME:A is mostly just wild speculations and the usual spam when there's nothing to talk about, DAI ... well, no idea what's going on in the DAI section because I don't frequent it since quite some time and frankly that's irrelevant because DAI =/= Offtopic as it stands to the focus of this argument, ME3 is basically just your usual circlejerk of whatever newest trend there is to spam around in the MP section and the remaining forum sections aren't really seeing much traffic at all.

 

Please share those observations you had/have and give point me to examples. Because I'm not seeing it and if there is, I want to know.

 

And please consider, bias goes both ways! If you think I may be too biased to see how bad it is, you might just the same merely be too biased and percieve stuff as toxic. Maybe we meet at the middle and I don't see some stuff and you see that same stuff but exaggerated it's relevancy or intensity.

[Fidite Nemini]

I never said that you're too biased to see it, All I'm saying that you don't see it because you're pat of it, And i said "Maybe", I didn't say it for certain, There are several other reasons to why you may not see that toxicity. What i also said is that toxic people don't know that they're toxic, It's not something that they're aware of because they don't perceive their toxic behavior as something bad, They consider it to be something completely normal. To troll other people. As for your point about the mods, The mods shouldn't be the ones that are imposing how the users should behave, They're supposed to step in if someone goes too far. Sure, There are guidelines and everything, But it's supposed that the average user would be rational enough to consider these guidelines without moderation and the mods are supposed to uphold these values if someone goes too far. But as you can clearly see, Being without mods made people go too far naturally and that's part of the toxicity. I have never changed my behavior just because there're no mods. As i have stated, Toxicity is a psychological matter, If you can't see it then you won't see it even if i point it out. For whatever reason you have for not seeing it. Not meaning to disrespect or belittle your opinion in anyway.

 

Hmm, so as I see it, if we can establish that I'm not a toxic person, it would mean that I'm somewhat qualified to discern my own observation as I would be able to see toxicity for what it is.

 

Well, then. Would you consider out current exchange as me being toxic? Or for a slightly bigger picture, my history in this very thread for example? Because what I've posted in here, at least to me, strikes me as being pretty reasonable if at times a bit emotional. Feel free to peruse though this thread and just show me the cases where you'd say I was behaving inappropriately, even if you think I wouldn't realize I was being as such.

[LPPrince]

Well unfortunately the wait continues.

[N7M]

Mods being better?
 
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
 
When they're actually willing to reply to the necessary PM's I'll say they're better until then, incompetent.

 

"Necessary PMs" meaning what specifically? If there is a ban dispute then, yes, a response to a review request should be part of the protocol of banning a user. However, there have been users in this thread bellyaching over getting a warning point or two. To take up the time of a moderator to review the nuanced details of such a minor thing is an unnecessary imposition.

[TheRealJayDee]

Again, I'm just saying that since you don't see it, You wont see it if i point it out.

 

 ​ 

[Riven326]

Well unfortunately the wait continues.

Why bother sitting around waiting? Find a new forum.

[LPPrince]

"Necessary PMs" meaning what specifically? If there is a ban dispute then, yes, a response to a review request should be part of the protocol of banning a user. However, there have been users in this thread bellyaching over getting a warning point or two. To take up the time of a moderator to review the nuanced details of such a minor thing is an unnecessary imposition.

 

I disagree that warning points are a minor thing. Someone who ignores their warning points is likely to keep getting them and then one day get banned because their reputation is garbage as opposed to questioning their warning points, having unnecessary ones removed, and maintaining care to keep a good reputation and thus stay here longer.

 

That is if that person intends to stay here at all.

[N7M]

...It's not something that they're aware of because they don't perceive their toxic behavior as something bad, They consider it to be something completely normal. To troll other people.

That's where the rationalizations come in. For example, some users may think, for some reason or other, a particular thread should be closed and will spam or derail the thread, often with the help of people from their clique. This type of toxicity is unnecessary, indulgent, and is time consuming to deal with for the mods.  Removing tools that have assisted in organizing this behavior, like the previous BSN feed, mitigated this type of toxicity. It seems like removing OT also helped, but to answer "in what way?" could be telling to much.  

[N7M]

I disagree that warning points are a minor thing. Someone who ignores their warning points is likely to keep getting them and then one day get banned because their reputation is garbage as opposed to questioning their warning points, having unnecessary ones removed, and maintaining care to keep a good reputation and thus stay here longer.
 
That is if that person intends to stay here at all.

These warning points don't seem to count for too much on their own and are only used to weigh future infractions, if some of the conversations about these points are accurate. The importance of a warning point is mostly on the individual pointed and, yeah, could be deemed necessary to them to dispute. It's another thing to consider the matter of a point to be important enough for a moderator to address. No harm in trying.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Warning points are battle scars more than anything else.

 

Still waiting for somebody to explain how the off topic forums were "toxic".

 

This is toxic, that is toxic, everything is toxic. It's a nonsensical justification.

[Reezus Christ]

I like how Lonelybook has been stanning this decision from the jump though. It's kind of entertaining.

[Commander Rpg]

These warning points don't seem to count for too much on their own and are only used to weigh future infractions

To believe or support this is to be really a devourer of turds.

The only use I've seen of the warnings was to work around the problem, namely some disruptor of peace in Off Topic, and to keep up appearances.

The moderators don't have to justify their warnings to the user, only to themselves and - in cases of extreme necessity - to their bosses. The most common thing was

 

- People doing too much mess to be left alone without intervening

- To keep up appearances of a good work, one or more moderators intervene

- Rarely, they warn some people (often warning those who didn't have the fault in the first place). Then, even more rarely, they lock the topic, except if it's manifest spam, in that case the will eventually lock it.

- Frequently drop topics to be locked in the Off Topic section, where not only they were off topic in the same off topic, they were to be locked from the beginning because of spam, bad taste and maliciousness altogether.

 

Seeing their supposed work was considered (justly) idleness - if not worse, they decided to close the appointed source of their discomfort and to merge sections. This way they can, with the right adjustments, be idle as always, but it will be way less visible and condemnable, and people will ask to themselves

 

"Hey buddies? What about discussing about things not related to the games or any specific EA-Bioware matter? Oh Geese™! We can't do it"

[TheRealJayDee]

Still waiting for somebody to explain how the off topic forums were "toxic".

 

Didn't you listen to Leo8Skylar? If you don't already see it you won't ever see it. 

 

Toxicity is a psychological matter, If you can't see it then you won't see it even if i point it out. For whatever reason you have for not seeing it.  

[Teddie Sage]

At this point, you could do two things... Create a Lobby group with the old members or join the Vroom Social Network which is pretty much the same.