3173 réponses à ce sujet

[Morty Smith]

This get´s crazier by the minute!

[Puddi III]

It's against forum rules to name names in this context but it is ok to talk about the behavior. There was another named mod who had to deal with sexual harassment from a user which was condoned and celebrated by some. The reason to bring up the second incident is to show the first wasn't isolated.

It's against the rules to call out the people who posted those dumb memes about Mr. Woo, which I did not.

And if you're talking about the mod I think you are now, that was a joke that came after she threw an MP spam thread into the Lobby, one of the first in a series of such moves. Unsurprising that when you treat the forum like a literal garbage bin that people will tend to get snarky. Treating that snark like super serious sexual harassment is a bit much tho.

Maybe you're right. Yet, even yesterday users who bring up genuine discussions of BW games are having their threads mocked and derailed, copied then pilloried. This seems to go against the forum ideals of creating a safe place for users to discuss BW games. This lack of a safe environment could be extended to the moderators or developers who would like to participate but cannot in the current state of things. Some thoughts are delicate others coarse. It is for the moderators to decide what is valuable and then help protect and encourage those which showcase and develop the BioWare brand in a positive light by using the forum powers at their disposal and the direction they are given.

There have always been copycat threads in every subforum of BSN. That's practically internet nature. No amount of arbitrary closing off subforums you don't like is going to stop that. You just police it with sensible moderation.

Case in point, none of this dreadful pillorying you speak of seems to have involved any of the off-topic regulars. Those are MP folks. Close MP forums next?

[Fidite Nemini]

There have always been copycat threads in every subforum of BSN. That's practically internet nature. No amount of arbitrary closing off subforums you don't like is going to stop that. You just police it with sensible moderation.

 

Aye, ME3MP section is all I'm saying. If OT was spammy, that subforum should've gotten Cobra missiled and spawn-nuked at several times since its' start of existence.

 

Not saying that spam was a deciding factor to close OT as to what the real reasons are, we can only speculate, but IF spam was a criteria that would've explained the current situation, ME3MP would've gotten thrown out the Airlock a couple times over long before OT got targeted.

[Commander Rpg]

The game-related sections are subject to marketing, it's a better thing to blame the non-sponsored section, even if it's more quiet.

 

The irony.

[LPPrince]

Again, I wish Bioware was as open with us about how things are going in regards to the forum as Roosterteeth is with their site. https://redvsblue.com/post/51175813

[bEVEsthda]

It's against the rules to call out the people who posted those dumb memes about Mr. Woo, which I did not.

And if you're talking about the mod I think you are now, that was a joke that came after she threw an MP spam thread into the Lobby, one of the first in a series of such moves. Unsurprising that when you treat the forum like a literal garbage bin that people will tend to get snarky. Treating that snark like super serious sexual harassment is a bit much tho.


There have always been copycat threads in every subforum of BSN. That's practically internet nature. No amount of arbitrary closing off subforums you don't like is going to stop that. You just police it with sensible moderation.

Case in point, none of this dreadful pillorying you speak of seems to have involved any of the off-topic regulars. Those are MP folks. Close MP forums next?

 

Yes, thank you. Let's stop this self-stigmatization of the OT aka Lobby. I'm not buying that the Lobby was closed because of unstoppable OT-crimes. I sense much muddier and opaque marketing thinking behind this.

[Commander Rpg]

I sense much muddier and opaque marketing thinking behind this.

It doesn't necessarily have something to do with marketing, rather with money for sure. The first derivates from the second.

[N7M]

And if you're talking about the mod I think you are now, that was a joke that came after she threw an MP spam thread into the Lobby, one of the first in a series of such moves. Unsurprising that when you treat the forum like a literal garbage bin that people will tend to get snarky. Treating that snark like super serious sexual harassment is a bit much tho.


There have always been copycat threads in every subforum of BSN. That's practically internet nature. No amount of arbitrary closing off subforums you don't like is going to stop that. You just police it with sensible moderation.

Case in point, none of this dreadful pillorying you speak of seems to have involved any of the off-topic regulars. Those are MP folks. Close MP forums next?

 

And if you're talking about the mod I think you are now, that was a joke that came after she threw an MP spam thread into the Lobby, one of the first in a series of such moves. Unsurprising that when you treat the forum like a literal garbage bin that people will tend to get snarky. Treating that snark like super serious sexual harassment is a bit much tho.

 

It doesn't seem like we're talking about the same incident but we can talk about the seriousness with which such should be taken since both -if they were different- seemed to be perceived by some parties as harmless. Part of the reason this type of harrassment should be taken seriously is optics. By this I mean how such an incident is viewed by non-participants. This type of incident can be seen from the outside as a permissiveness of harassing behavior, weakness in moderation and lack of support for the moderator by peers and bosses. This can have various effects on the userbase. One is that non-participants would be rightfully frightened of being subjected to the same treatment by the same people and would avoid the forum. These are hypothetical people but to speak to the real I have avoided posting many thoughts on the non OT forums due to this type of behavior being condoned through support from forum users and inaction on the part of mods. The other part, even more serious, is escalation. If a certain level of harassment is allowed there are always users who will feel justified in pushing things a little further. The old axiom 'give one inch and someone will take six' is appropriate here.  

 

You mentioned that banning should be used more often. Would banning of these harassing users have helped in the eyes of those that supported this harassment? Should all the supporters of this harassment who simply 'liked' a post or two be banned also? It seemed banning the source of the harassment wouldn't or didn't help with the awareness it was wrong.  It's part of the reason banning hasn't been effective for removing embedded toxic behavior. It's too deep in the mentality of the userbase. Besides that, banning should only be used in cases of grievous misconduct or when lengthy suspensions have been attempted and failed on a user by user basis. This is, of course, in the case where the user is an unaffiliated person with registered games.  

In reference to dealing with 'toxicity', it's why closing Off Topic has helped more in removing toxicity than banning any single or group of specific users because banning simply would not work since the problem is not with any single type of user but an attitude across a broad spectrum of users. 

[Puddi III]

The case I'm talking about hardly even qualifies as harassment. Since you insist in being so vague, it's the only case I can think of regarding a "named mod" in off-topic in recent history being subject to any kind of commentary whatsoever.

If it is the case I'm talking about, no one needed to get banned for that and I'm not aware if they did. I'd say people concerned with the 'optics' of that need to put on their big boy or big girl pants and stop being so gosh darned frightened that they might be soiled by other users' unclean opinions. I know the user who made that comment or two wasn't even serious.

If you were referring to the Hepler incident, which was horrible, that was both a long time ago and would be a stronger argument for closing the Dragon Age forum, not OT. That was much worse than anything recent that would have inspired this forum restructuring. Of course, they can make money off the Dragon Age forums... unlike off-topic, right? Those icons under my avatar are imaginary, please understand.

If toxicity is such a problem, policing likes would be a dumb way to go about it. But really you are searching for a solution in want of a problem. Fixing what problems there were in off-topic could have been as simple as bringing back community moderators who were actually active. As far as I'm aware, that wasn't even a paid position, so cost is a non-issue here.

You keep saying it "helped remove toxicity" but that's a bit disingenuous since the main forums haven't changed a bit, and OT only has less toxicity because it's freaking dead.

[N7M]

The case I'm talking about hardly even qualifies as harassment. Since you insist in being so vague, it's the only case I can think of regarding a "named mod" in off-topic in recent history being subject to any kind of commentary whatsoever.

If it is the case I'm talking about, no one needed to get banned for that and I'm not aware if they did. I'd say people concerned with the 'optics' of that need to put on their big boy or big girl pants and stop being so gosh darned frightened that they might be soiled by other users' unclean opinions. I know the user who made that comment or two wasn't even serious.

If you were referring to the Hepler incident, which was horrible, that was both a long time ago and would be a stronger argument for closing the Dragon Age forum, not OT. That was much worse than anything recent that would have inspired this forum restructuring. Of course, they can make money off the Dragon Age forums... unlike off-topic, right? Those icons under my avatar are imaginary, please understand.

If toxicity is such a problem, policing likes would be a dumb way to go about it. But really you are searching for a solution in want of a problem. Fixing what problems there were in off-topic could have been as simple as bringing back community moderators who were actually active. As far as I'm aware, that wasn't even a paid position, so cost is a non-issue here.

You keep saying it "helped remove toxicity" but that's a bit disingenuous since the main forums haven't changed a bit, and OT only has less toxicity because it's freaking dead.

 

It seems we are talking about two different incidents.  

 

"Big people pants" shouldn't be a necessity for someone who only wants to have a discussion about a game they enjoy on the developer's forum. Haters to the side. 

 

You keep saying it "helped remove toxicity" but that's a bit disingenuous since the main forums haven't changed a bit, and OT only has less toxicity because it's freaking dead.

 

I disagree. I have found the threads easier to navigate and mentioned this when my perspective on the OT closure changed. Of course, that is only my opinion, BioWare will have the hard facts. 

[Reezus Christ]

The case I'm talking about hardly even qualifies as harassment. Since you insist in being so vague, it's the only case I can think of regarding a "named mod" in off-topic in recent history being subject to any kind of commentary whatsoever.

I remember that "Mods... why?" thread that guy Catch This Fade made. I thought it was a more lighthearted way of addressing them using Off Topic as a trash dump and wasn't malicious at all.

[Puddi III]

Yeah, it might have been something like that. I wouldn't know since I just got here. Catch This Fade sounds like a guy who needs to watch PMMM though.

Lonely book, it is certainly a YMMV thing. The forums are just as full of terrible posts as ever from what I see. You just admitted that users are still being 'harassed' (by your definition) in ME:A forums for posting sexy salarian fanart or whatever.

And you just glossed over the point about closing OT being an inane way of going about curbing 'toxicity' when you compare it to any other place here.

Like seriously, I've never seen you post in OT. You don't even know what you're talking about. If you actually did you'd realize it's not nearly the boogeyman of your imagining.

[N7M]

Yeah, it might have been something like that. I wouldn't know since I just got here. Catch This Fade sounds like a guy who needs to watch PMMM though.

Lonely book, it is certainly a YMMV thing. The forums are just as full of terrible posts as ever from what I see. You just admitted that users are still being 'harassed' (by your definition) in ME:A forums for posting sexy salarian fanart or whatever.

And you just glossed over the point about closing OT being an inane way of going about curbing 'toxicity' when you compare it to any other place here.

Like seriously, I've never seen you post in OT. You don't even know what you're talking about. If you actually did you'd realize it's not nearly the boogeyman of your imagining.

 

Well, I do limit my posting to only a couple threads. Seeing that you only have 13 posts are you sure you've been around long enough to notice? 

 

I didn't mention salarian anything, you must be getting your facts mixed up.

 

Most importantly, the point you seemed to have missed is that banning, your recommendation, hasn't been effective in removing toxicity. It couldn't be because banned users keep coming back as new users and embedding themselves in the OT, could it?

[Puddi III]

True, I am new here. But even if I had been here since 2009 I don't think we'd have ever met. Not that I have been.

The most recent 'copycatting and pillorying' were based on the salarian thread. I was just filling in for your vagueness again. But it really doesn't matter what you were referring to. The 'toxicity' that you thought removing OT would solve yet remains.

As far as OT is concerned, banning people did solve it, to some extent. Most of those people either didn't come back or, if they did, they either stopped or got banned again. And the offending behavior, by and large, stopped. You'd know this if you actually posted in OT.

If you want solutions for other subforums' problems maybe you should consider what needs to be done in those subforums, not tilt at uninvolved windmills like this.

[Morty Smith]

True, I am new here. But even if I had been here since 2009 I don't think we'd have ever met. Not that I have been.

 

Git gud noob.

 

I bet your Anime Music Video links are scrub lvl.

[N7M]

If you want solutions for other subforums' problems maybe you should consider what needs to be done in those subforums, not tilt at uninvolved windmills like this.

 

Do you mean pointing out that OT was used as a place that banned users reappeared in?

 

Perhaps, the mods could take a look for these users. This might clean up the forums a bit more. 

[N7M]

To add more to that thought about banned users and the OT...

 

Could it be that banning was ineffective for taking care of toxicity since banned users would reappear in OT with the support of other toxic users? 

Was it Banned Users reappearing in OT that contributed to OT being closed?

 

Interesting questions your post raises, Puddi.

[Morty Smith]

Perhaps, the mods could take a look for these users. This might clean up the forums a bit more. 

 

Glad we arrive at the same page, you sure took your time.

 

If people break the rules, moderation should be the active answer.

 

Arguing that closing a whole section of active topics down will stop people from breaking the rules is monkey business and doesn´t hide the personal bias you might have against the former regulars there.

[N7M]

Glad we arrive at the same page, you sure took your time.

 

If people break the rules, moderation should be the active answer.

 

Arguing that closing a whole section of active topics down stops people from breaking the rules is monkey business and doesn´t hide the personal bias you might have against the former regulars there.

 

Moderation has been active but banned users may have been reappearing in OT.  It's possible, if this is true, it contributed to OT being closed. 

[N7M]

 

 

Arguing that closing a whole section of active topics down will stop people from breaking the rules is monkey business and doesn´t hide the personal bias you might have against the former regulars there.

 

There is no bias, only speculation in the hope of fact finding. 

[Morty Smith]

Moderation has been active but banned users may have been reappearing in OT.  It's possible, if this is true, it contributed to OT being closed. 

 

If the reasoning in your second sentence is fact, the statement in your first isn´t.

[Puddi III]

To add more to that thought about banned users and the OT...
 
Could it be that banning was ineffective for taking care of toxicity since banned users would reappear in OT with the support of other toxic users? 
Was it Banned Users reappearing in OT that contributed to OT being closed?
 
Interesting questions your post raises, Puddi.

Only if you cherry pick which parts of my posts you want to read, lol.

The relevant part: many of them didn't come back. Those who did reined in their behavior. If that wasn't sufficient, having moderators who were actually active in off-topic and didn't just respond to the report button would have gone a long way.

No, moderation in off-topic wasn't active at all. It was nonexistent, save for responses to the report button as stated.

All of these are things you would know if you actually posted in off-topic, lol. Interesting questions indeed.

[N7M]

Only if you cherry pick which parts of my posts you want to read, lol.

The relevant part: many of them didn't come back. Those who did reined in their behavior. If that wasn't sufficient, having moderators who were actually active in off-topic and didn't just respond to the report button would have gone a long way.

No, moderation in off-topic wasn't active at all. It was nonexistent, save for responses to the report button as stated.

 

 

 How would you know how many came back? How would you know they reigned in their behavior? 

 

Considering my posts have been moderated about a dozen times in the last year or so and most of my posts are in OT and, as you claim, not at all noticable, your assertion that OT is not moderated seems hollow to me. BUT, if it is entirely based off the report button, as you claim, perhaps there is something to be addressed there to. Very interesting, indeed. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

So Lonely do you get a paycheck from Bioware or is defending their insulting behavior towards their own community something you normally do?

 

Everything is justified to purge the counter-revolutionaries toxic elements, right comrade? Those who doubt this are toxic elements themselves.

[N7M]

So Lonely do you get a paycheck from Bioware is defending their insulting behavior towards their own community something you normally do?

 

Everything is justified to purge the counter-revolutionaries toxic elements, right comrade? Those who doubt this are toxic elements themselves.

 

No, I'm not being paid to find out the reasons OT was closed. Rocks will continue to be kicked over and what crawls out examined until as complete a picture as possible is painted, the thread locked or a moderator discourages it.