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I checked up on here again earlier on my mobile. As I'm following the thread, I got hit with 120-something notifications.
I thought, 'Oh hey, that's a lot of activity. Surely that means there's been an official response. Right?'
I was admittedly rather drunk at the time.
Which hopefully justifies me thinking such foolishness.
Hopes and dreams, mate. Hopes and dreams.
I checked up on here again earlier on my mobile. As I'm following the thread, I got hit with 120-something notifications.
I thought, 'Oh hey, that's a lot of activity. Surely that means there's been an official response. Right?'
I was admittedly rather drunk at the time.
Which hopefully justifies me thinking such foolishness.
Hi everyone. Let's keep it civil in here. Thank you.
Spoiler
Always remember, civil =/= peaceful. Pistols at dawn anyone?
Civil wars aren't peaceful.
Yeah I know what the term means in its wider use.
But if one has to be peaceful, his controller needs to be more peaceful than him, not fomenting riots; and I believe this is what Bioware's staff is doing, intentionally or unintentionally, fomenting riots by being immobile and conspirating in silence.
However, I'd say intentionally. Being torpid and conspirational doesn't mean to be peaceful, even if axes don't fly and hit skulls, and babies don't cry.
Civil wars aren't peaceful.
Oxymorons are fun.
Are you referring to the alleged banned users who skirt their bans by opening new accounts, then use their established social connections in OT to reinsert themselves in the forum? The ones Puddi claims to know about. Puddi could be lying but the accusation certainly isn't vague. Many vocal protesters of the OT closure have suggested banning problem users as the means to achieve a healthier forum. Banning won't work if an active group within the OT community is working against the moderation. This alone is justification enough to close OT, if a large enough portion of OT users help with skirting bans.
Personally, I haven't seen any banned users come back under new accounts in months or even possibly since old BSN days. I've seen users delete their accounts, and then come back later for their own reasons, but banned coming back under different accounts is a more rare occurrence.
Personally, I haven't seen any banned users come back under new accounts in months or even possibly since old BSN days. I've seen users delete their accounts, and then come back later for their own reasons, but banned coming back under different accounts is a more rare occurrence.
Same. Actually, some previously perma-banned users were allowed to return after the site switch. But those folks weren't the terribad ones. Those I remember causing trouble, real trouble, are still long since gone. Perma'd and never heard from again.
Same. Actually, some previously perma-banned users were allowed to return after the site switch. But those folks weren't the terribad ones. Those I remember causing trouble, real trouble, are still long since gone. Perma'd and never heard from again.
Hey Prince! Just want to say hello, like I can in most off topic forums, to people I respect. Anywho. Bioware got real sick of the cynicism on their GAME forums, not off topic. Because off topic was harmless. it was the game-related forums that had issues.
Community mods?
It may be a challenge for uninvolved moderators to locate smurfs, but a community moderator who is familiar with the social structures of a subsection could easily find those if they plain reconnect with other users.
And smurfs who reconnect but are subtle enough as to not draw attention obviously likewise don't violate the ToS (as that would draw attention, obviously), so there's comparatively little harm done if those aren't sniffed out, from a plain practical point of view.
There's a good reason most large communities employ such community mods and it's not just because it's a voluntary position the company doesn't have to pay for (though they usually get some perks to keep them motivated, for example guaranteed alpha/beta test spots, maybe even a free version of the newest game).
And the concept of community mods has been brought up several times in this thread already. BioWare used to have those and technically speaking some are even still around (though I never saw them in action for quite some while), so IF staff limitations is a problem regarding moderation, that can be easily rectified. There's a couple of users on this board that would make for good mods and I could recommend two straight from the top of my head.
In a sense, users already are the first line of moderation by being given the report button. The unnamed official moderators can gauge the legitimacy of reports, individually or in groups, and then can act accordingly. The principle behind the idea of unnamed mods who don't interact with the community is good. It mitigates attempts to socially engineer the moderators and their moderation. Named community moderators seem to be vulnerable to this and, for example, have been put into awkward, stressful situations when moderating those that have established rapport with them. It seems that, in general, there needs to be a distance between users and moderators.
Related to this is the problem that no one seems to think there was anything really that wrong with OT and instead of facing any problems attempt to deflect from the possible issues through finger pointing. Perhaps, if the OT users took the time to think what could have been the problems in OT and faced them and owned them, maybe -then maybe- someone from BioWare will respond to this closure officially.
Or maybe the users of OT were near perfect citizens who were wrongly maligned; somehow that seems doubtful.
Related to this is the problem that no one seems to think there was anything really that wrong with OT and instead of facing any problems attempt to deflect from the possible issues through finger pointing. Perhaps, if the OT users took the time to think what could have been the problems in OT and faced them and owned them, maybe -then maybe- someone from BioWare will respond to this closure officially.
Or maybe the users of OT were near perfect citizens who were wrongly maligned; somehow that seems doubtful.
Eh, I doubt anyone in here means to say that Offtopic was the perfect place and everyone was all sunshine and fluffy bunnies. But the majority of people who frequented this section (which I met) were by far and large wellbehaving if at times a bit excentric fellows.
There's always bad eggs, but so are in other sections. So how comes that Offtopic gets the axe, but the rest is left untouched (aside from restructuring and moving threads around) ? If cutting of a cancerous growth was the purpose to closing Offtopic, it makes zero sense to just ignore all the other bad eggs that aren't in Offtopic. There was clearly another thought behind this, because this isn't a remotely effective solution to quelling unruly users when you don't get down to the rest as well and I haven't seen that happening.
Eh, I doubt anyone in here means to say that Offtopic was the perfect place and everyone was all sunshine and fluffy bunnies. But the majority of people who frequented this section (which I met) were by far and large wellbehaving if at times a bit excentric fellows.
There's always bad eggs, but so are in other sections. So how comes that Offtopic gets the axe, but the rest is left untouched (aside from restructuring and moving threads around) ? If cutting of a cancerous growth was the purpose to closing Offtopic, it makes zero sense to just ignore all the other bad eggs that aren't in Offtopic. There was clearly another thought behind this, because this isn't a remotely effective solution to quelling unruly users when you don't get down to the rest as well and I haven't seen that happening.
Yet, to some users, the threads seem more focused on content and more constructive, the block tool more effective in blocking unwanted content, noisome posts stand out more and are being validated less; there does seem to be a positive effect to the closure. It could be a shock reaction to such a drastic move and users are tip toeing to avoid getting axed. It could be many reasons.
There could be other thoughts behind the closure and that is a good point.
Yet, to some users, the threads seem more focused on content and more constructive, the block tool more effective in blocking unwanted content, noisome posts stand out more and are being validated less; there does seem to be a positive effect to the closure. It could be a shock reaction to such a drastic move and users are tip toeing to avoid getting axed. It could be many reasons.
There could be other thoughts behind the closure and that is a good point.
That however wouldn't excuse axing one of the friendlier subsections only to cow others. You don't expell the least troublesome pupil from school to scare the other troublemakers straight.
That's not how making an example is supposed to made. Nevermind that fear is a pretty shortlived deterrent on the internet.
there does seem to be a positive effect to the closure. It could be a shock reaction to such a drastic move and users are tip toeing to avoid getting axed. It could be many reasons.
Really? I haven't seen that. I am mostly frequenting the ME sections, so maybe something drastic has been happening in the DA forums, that I don't know about but as far as I can see, it's business as usual. Only difference I can see is the fact that some people have been complaining about character threads in the gameplay sections and such. Oh and that I am no longer seeing the occasional posts from people who were more at home in the OT section but came to the other boards from time to time if they had something relevant to say (I miss those people and their posts, even if they were infrequent, you know, quality over quantity and such).
Now, that's just my personal perspective and maybe I'm wrong but how would you even quantify that without administrator tools?
Even as someone who very rarely touches the off-topic sections, i think this is a truly awful idea. Why destroy a community? Are they worried people are convincing others to buy their competitors games? Because that will happen either way, most people are gamers... not Bioware/EA gamers.
LOL. The last few pages made my brain hurt.
In a sense, users already are the first line of moderation by being given the report button. The unnamed official moderators can gauge the legitimacy of reports, individually or in groups, and then can act accordingly. The principle behind the idea of unnamed mods who don't interact with the community is good. It mitigates attempts to socially engineer the moderators and their moderation. Named community moderators seem to be vulnerable to this and, for example, have been put into awkward, stressful situations when moderating those that have established rapport with them. It seems that, in general, there needs to be a distance between users and moderators.
Related to this is the problem that no one seems to think there was anything really that wrong with OT and instead of facing any problems attempt to deflect from the possible issues through finger pointing. Perhaps, if the OT users took the time to think what could have been the problems in OT and faced them and owned them, maybe -then maybe- someone from BioWare will respond to this closure officially.
Or maybe the users of OT were near perfect citizens who were wrongly maligned; somehow that seems doubtful.
This is truly one weirdest posts.
"Or maybe the users of OT were near perfect citizens who were wrongly maligned; somehow that seems doubtful."
- How is this supposed to be part of any argument? There seem to be only one way: That you imply that if it's not so, then all your other rather unreasonable and unlikely claims and speculations must be correct!? Well. - Excuse me!
"Perhaps, if the OT users took the time to think what could have been the problems in OT and faced them and owned them, maybe -then maybe- someone from BioWare will respond to this closure officially."
Why on earth would anything like that motivate Bioware to respond officially? - "officially"?!
Why? To reward us for debasing ourselves? Because someone want pretend confirmation to feel 'see-I-was-right-all-along-smug' about himself? Well. - Excuse me!
"Related to this is the problem that no one seems to think there was anything really that wrong with OT"
No. That is not in any way related to what was written above it. (There's nothing that forces Bioware to accept that moderation and moderators are discussed in OT.)
And - oh, is that a problem? (that no one thinks there's anything wrong?)
If you see a problem where others don't, there are a number of different possibilities.
No one ever forced me to read every thread on OT. So I didn't. But no, I didn't see "anything really that wrong with OT".
And if Bioware can tolerate the game threads, then surely OT must be a breeze.
Yet, to some users, the threads seem more focused on content and more constructive, the block tool more effective in blocking unwanted content, noisome posts stand out more and are being validated less; there does seem to be a positive effect to the closure. It could be a shock reaction to such a drastic move and users are tip toeing to avoid getting axed. It could be many reasons.
"Shock reaction"?
What are people supposed to be afraid of? "Getting axed"? How? You're talking about closing the rest of the forums? Banned? What's different?
"Yet, to some users, the threads seem more focused on content and more constructive, the block tool more effective in blocking unwanted content, noisome posts stand out more and are being validated less; there does seem to be a positive effect to the closure."
Where do you get this from? "Seem"? You know, it's easy to imagine things if you really want to. Want to, very much.
LOL. The last few pages made my brain hurt.
Using neglected atrophied muscles is like that.
Using neglected atrophied muscles is like that.
That however wouldn't excuse axing one of the friendlier subsections only to cow others. You don't expell the least troublesome pupil from school to scare the other troublemakers straight.
That's not how making an example is supposed to made. Nevermind that fear is a pretty shortlived deterrent on the internet.
This is at least partly true.
There is the other aspect of OT, its draw. If there isn't a pleasant place to loiter there is no draw for non-BW interested elements to hang around. This strategy takes advantage of other aspects of internet culture, short attention spans and the need for immediate gratification.
*spam snip*
"Yet, to some users, the threads seem more focused on content and more constructive, the block tool more effective in blocking unwanted content, noisome posts stand out more and are being validated less; there does seem to be a positive effect to the closure."
Where do you get this from? "Seem"? You know, it's easy to imagine things if you really want to. Want to, very much.
Personal observation. I cannot point at particular threads due to forum rules to support the argument. Neither am I going to begin the large amount of unpaid work to convince you by collecting, collating and analyzing the data for you.
Personal observation. I cannot point at particular threads due to forum rules to support the argument. Neither am I going to begin the large amount of unpaid work to convince you by collecting, collating and analyzing the data for you.
I hear a distinct sound, it may be the voices of the hidden thoughts in this quote, or the Bioware staff talking mentally to us
"Ignoble rabble! This way you reward the sacrifices made for you? Recede! Prove yourself men and tomorrow BSN will be reborn more beautiful and superb than before!"
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