3173 réponses à ce sujet

[Excella Gionne]

I don't think they're listening anymore, and it's about to reach a month now since the "change" happened. 

[TobiTobsen]

I don't think they're listening anymore, and it's about to reach a month now since the "change" happened. 

 

"Not listening anymore" would have required that they listened to us in the first place.

[Excella Gionne]

"Not listening anymore" would have required that they listened to us in the first place.

They were listening, but listening and taking action are two different things. Just because they listened, it doesn't mean that they "will" do anything about it. 

[Donk]

It's actually a deformation of the nickname "Cassandra Saturn", the highest leveled troll and nuisance I've seen in OT.

 

Oh I know, I've seen that user while browsing off-topic. Something about leaving for a while and coming back the next day..

[Puddi III]

They were listening, but listening and taking action are two different things. Just because they listened, it doesn't mean that they "will" do anything about it.

Please don't besmirch BioWare's reputation with such unfounded accusations of giving a damn.

[N7M]

If this was the case it could indicate an intention to promote user turnover. With a new IP on the horizon there could a need to make space and encourage new users by dissolving the old social connections which could influence new user participation.

That seems to be the most likely explanation.

 

We're toxic after all, and communities like Reddit that downvote most criticism and endlessly shower BioWare with praise are a much more attractive community to have. That much is already clear as it gets. Cutting out the percieved cancer of the old community would be a logical step in that process.

 

Part of the toxic problem with the old social connections which could negatively impact new user participation is the tendency of some users to promote and develop a culture of celebrity around themselves or those they admire through use of invasive and disruptive means. For example, interrupting threads to bring attention to a user, themselves or another, without adding to the overall "community value" is toxic to the thought process of those that wish to read or bring forward ideas that could inform discussions. In relation to new users, if social groups are left unchecked and cohesive, self sustaining, noisome cliques develop it can be difficult for new users to bring forward different ideas. Having to work against the social current of noisome users and cliques which have been years in development, whose tendencies are such that they consider themselves the judge of what Data Points should be considered and drawn upon within the Aesthetic and who attempt to suppress different contributors through disruptive means can be discouraging to new users and has a negative impact on the development of constructive linear thought. For example, attempts to suppress the prominence of counter viewpoints through burying posts with repetitious noise, like self aggrandizing or cliques talking about individual users active in a discussion in the third person in attempts to socially isolate them are counter to the site philosophy. The former of these toxic tendencies has been mitigated somewhat by the "Like" button, the latter by moderation and, perhaps, closing OT. 

[Fidite Nemini]

Part of the toxic problem with the old social connections which could negatively impact new user participation is the tendency of some users to promote and develop a culture of celebrity around themselves or those they admire through use of invasive and disruptive means. For example, interrupting threads to bring attention to a user, themselves or another, without adding to the overall "community value" is toxic to the thought process of those that wish to read or bring forward ideas that could inform discussions. In relation to new users, if social groups are left unchecked and cohesive, self sustaining, noisome cliques develop it can be difficult for new users to bring forward different ideas. Having to work against the social current of noisome users and cliques which have been years in development, whose tendencies are such that they consider themselves the judge of what Data Points should be considered and drawn upon within the Aesthetic and who attempt to suppress different contributors through disruptive means can be discouraging to new users and has a negative impact on the development of constructive linear thought. For example, attempts to suppress the prominence of counter viewpoints through burying posts with repetitious noise, like self aggrandizing or cliques talking about individual users active in a discussion in the third person in attempts to socially isolate them are counter to the site philosophy. The former of these toxic tendencies has been mitigated somewhat by the "Like" button, the latter by moderation and, perhaps, closing OT. 

 

All of which wouldn't be much of a problem if there had been any sort of effective moderation. And could still be realized if BioWare just bothered to moderate their forum. Already established connections not good for the community because they are disruptive? Zero tolerance policy in moderation, either they adapt, or they get banned. BioWare is directly responsible for letting such behaviour escalate by tolerating it, or more accurately, ignoring it. It's a self-made problem. Case in point, all those other big gaming communities maintained by other companies that don't degenerate in wholesale forum nukes.

 

Nevermind that the majority of points you just mentioned holds just as true for Reddit, which BioWare positively loves, so any form of disruptive behaviour can hardly be the crux of the issue BioWare is having with this forum.

 

Really, there's only two ways for BioWare to go forward from here: either they look to maintain their own community in here and get themselves sufficient moderators to actually control what's going on in here, or they can simply axe the community part of it, close the entire forum and stick to tweeting marketing fluff via twitter if they don't care enough to make a considerable effort to salvage the situation.

[YohkoOhno]

Honestly, I think forums are starting to dwindle, not just for Bioware, but for a lot of people.  Take this announcement, for instance:

 

http://www.enworld.o...ng-D-D-and-M-tG

 

Honestly, forums I believe are going the way of newsgroups and e-mail lists for communication.  This is probably what's going to start happening--it looks like Devs for instance are starting to prefer reddit and similar forum-like services than hosting their own forums.

 

I don't think killing the forums has anything to do with "toxicity", rather, it's just a shifting of priorities.  At the end of the day, these forums are to serve the fans of Bioware as a communication medium to promote their current games--it's not meant for fans of the games they no longer work on, lapsed or disgrunted fans, or as a general RPG or Video Game forum.  These forums cost not just bandwidth, but server space, mods to deal with the threads, and tech staff in case there's a problem.  I can certainly understand wanting to consolidate this.  

 

The thing is, not to take it like a personal attack or insult, and just move on.

[Excella Gionne]

Please don't besmirch BioWare's reputation with such unfounded accusations of giving a damn.

I was merely stating that being aware of a problem doesn't necessarily mean the problem will be fixed. Accusing me of making false accusations against Bioware's care for their fans was ignorant of you. 

[Puddi III]

I'm not sure you understood what I was saying, maybe since I used 'accusations' in an unconventional way. You don't normally 'accuse' someone of caring. 

 

Anyway I don't think they ever were listening, since there's a lot of space between this false dichotomy of 'listening and never responding' and 'acquiescing to every demand.' If they really had been listening there could have been a discussion, and there has been none.

[TheRealJayDee]

I don't think killing the forums has anything to do with "toxicity", rather, it's just a shifting of priorities. 

 

[...]

 

The thing is, not to take it like a personal attack or insult, and just move on.

 

I know I'm being completely unrealistic here, but what if Bioware just plain said that if it was the case?! People might've been quite disappointed still, but at least there would've been some semblance of respect in the whole process. Instead they pulled the plug on OT without warning, told the users in some PR speak announcement the plan was to strengthen the community and simply ignored the whole topic afterwards. 

 

Now I don't believe this was some deliberate attempt at pissing off the users and insulting their intelligence. although it might seem like it. I do, however, think I know where the folks responsible for stuff like dealing with the forums prefer to hang out and find inspiration for their work...

 

Spoiler

[Commander Rpg]

Now I don't believe this was some deliberate attempt at pissing off the users and insulting their intelligence. although it might seem like it. I do, however, think I know where the folks responsible for stuff like dealing with the forums prefer to hang out and find inspiration for their work...

I don't know, but I will paste these lyrics about it anyway.

 

Out of the night,
When the full moon is bright,
Comes the feeling known as Sorrow.
This bold sentiment
Carves in minds discontent,
An "S" that stands for Sorrow.

Sorrow, Sorrow, the impediment to happiness,
Sorrow, Sorrow, who makes the sign of the S.

It is outright,
But the smartmen take flight
When they catch the sight of Sorrow.
It's friend of the weak,
And the poor and the meek,
This very unique feeling Sorrow.

[bEVEsthda]

Part of the toxic problem with the old social connections which could negatively impact new user participation is the tendency of some users to promote and develop a culture of celebrity around themselves or those they admire through use of invasive and disruptive means. For example, interrupting threads to bring attention to a user, themselves or another, without adding to the overall "community value" is toxic to the thought process of those that wish to read or bring forward ideas that could inform discussions. In relation to new users, if social groups are left unchecked and cohesive, self sustaining, noisome cliques develop it can be difficult for new users to bring forward different ideas. Having to work against the social current of noisome users and cliques which have been years in development, whose tendencies are such that they consider themselves the judge of what Data Points should be considered and drawn upon within the Aesthetic and who attempt to suppress different contributors through disruptive means can be discouraging to new users and has a negative impact on the development of constructive linear thought. For example, attempts to suppress the prominence of counter viewpoints through burying posts with repetitious noise, like self aggrandizing or cliques talking about individual users active in a discussion in the third person in attempts to socially isolate them are counter to the site philosophy. The former of these toxic tendencies has been mitigated somewhat by the "Like" button, the latter by moderation and, perhaps, closing OT. 

 

You noticed that too?    

 

Hmm,.. What caaan we do about it? 

And as we consider that, it's best to also try estimate if an action will actually work and what other effects it will have.

[Reezus Christ]

I was merely stating that being aware of a problem doesn't necessarily mean the problem will be fixed. Accusing me of making false accusations against Bioware's care for their fans was ignorant of you. 

Ouch. Joke got thrown too high for you to catch it.

[Excella Gionne]

Ouch. Joke got thrown too high for you to catch it.

Obviously, the joke came off too serious. Also, it's the internet. Unless, it's obvious, no one knows how you're saying something because it's all in typing. Don't blame me for misinterpreting.

[Dio Demon]

I was merely stating that being aware of a problem doesn't necessarily mean the problem will be fixed. Accusing me of making false accusations against Bioware's care for their fans was ignorant of you. 

Puddi wasn't being serious... sheesh XD

[SlottsMachine]

Even if their goal was only making money, driving away some of their longest-standing customers is a pretty nonsensical thing to do.

 

Oh wait, this guy has me blocked. lol.

 

How to do you know if someone has blocked you? I find it unfathomable that someone would feel the need to block lil ol' me. It would be an honour tho, not gonna lie.

[Just My Moniker]

How to do you know if someone has blocked you? I find it unfathomable that someone would feel the need to block lil ol' me. It would be an honour tho, not gonna lie.

That would be pretty cool to know who has me blocked, would be like a badge of honor or something 

[YohkoOhno]

I know I'm being completely unrealistic here, but what if Bioware just plain said that if it was the case?! People might've been quite disappointed still, but at least there would've been some semblance of respect in the whole process. Instead they pulled the plug on OT without warning, told the users in some PR speak announcement the plan was to strengthen the community and simply ignored the whole topic afterwards. 

 

I don't think they hid anything or used "PR Speak".  All the changes were to "strengthen the community" (by reorganizing the forums).  Here's the exact statement about the off-topic forum:

 

 

 

Finally, we have removed the Off-Topic boards. We want to keep the conversations on our boards focused on BioWare and our games. Since other communities do exist for such off-topic discussions, we feel it's important to foster conversations within our community that can't be found outside these boards.

 

That's simple, effective, and neutral in tone--not glorified PR speak or antagonistic or disrespectful--it's a very simple statement that they no longer want to host off-topic discussions and mostly focus on stuff dealing directly with their games and their company--which is the purpose of the forum itself.  I mean, just because the community wants to use it for other purposes doesn't mean Bioware should cater to that--there's loads of general purpose forums for RPGs and other subjects.  

 

Does anybody think that this forum would be around very long if Bioware was disbanded?  

[Fidite Nemini]

I don't think they hid anything or used "PR Speak".  All the changes were to "strengthen the community" (by reorganizing the forums).  Here's the exact statement about the off-topic forum:

 

 

That's simple, effective, and neutral in tone--not glorified PR speak or antagonistic or disrespectful--it's a very simple statement that they no longer want to host off-topic discussions and mostly focus on stuff dealing directly with their games and their company--which is the purpose of the forum itself.  I mean, just because the community wants to use it for other purposes doesn't mean Bioware should cater to that--there's loads of general purpose forums for RPGs and other subjects.  

 

Does anybody think that this forum would be around very long if Bioware was disbanded?  

 

Except that part about fostering a conversation with the community isn't true, because BioWare is shunning this forum to the best of their ability.

 

And there were ample good reasons as to why doing stuff like removing Offtopic isn't strenghtening the community at all. In between content releases, what are people supposed to talk about ontopic? Discuss the meaning of a developer tweet that said "ME:A is going to be the best looking and biggest ME game yet"? Wow, that's an awful lot of information, I'm sure you can make, what, maybe three thoughtfull comments about that if you feel like speculating or crossreferencing the previous games' size and visual quality.

 

What are people supposed to do when there's nothing to talk about? Shut up and leave until it's time to run BioWare's hype machine again?

 

Offtopic is a sensible outlet for people to have in absence of discussion material, or discussion interest (not every BioWare fan for example is a ME fan, so until they get more DA content to talk about in about two years, there isn't much to talk about now that the last story DLC released), to keep connected with the community.

 

This concept is inherently beneficial to a community. Taking it away is NOT strengthening the community and that is the PR speak people complain about.

[Commander Rpg]

How to do you know if someone has blocked you? I find it unfathomable that someone would feel the need to block lil ol' me. It would be an honour tho, not gonna lie.

I told him.

Yet that doesn't stop him to reply to me and making a funny remark on my block to him.

It must be like an addiction. Poor soul.

[malloc]

You'd think they'd try to integrate these social media outlets with the forum in some way. Like instead of these big ass twitter threads we'd have a live twitter feed so we on the forum know the moment a tweet is made without having to leave the site. Or a Facebook updates feed for the same reason. Links to tumblr and reddit pages.

 

But do we have any of that? We're locked off from the "outside world" as it were. Bioware offers zero avenues for the forum to work together and connect with other locations where Bioware would apparently prefer to be. We're just expected to up and leave the forum to go to these other places for news instead of it being shared here.

Sure they could do it but it is it worth it? Should they invest resources in having someone modify the structure in order to facilitate this? That would be a fairly big change and if users are able to posts tweets, it doesn't look like it would be worth the pursue. They have the ability to do it but it is simply just not viable.

[Reezus Christ]

How to do you know if someone has blocked you? I find it unfathomable that someone would feel the need to block lil ol' me. It would be an honour tho, not gonna lie.

Well you're a blast processor so it'd be kind of hard to block you considering how fast you run.

[Reezus Christ]

Obviously, the joke came off too serious. Also, it's the internet. Unless, it's obvious, no one knows how you're saying something because it's all in typing. Don't blame me for misinterpreting.

Not blaming you. If you don't know someone's posting habits the chances of you missing a joke are quite high because, as you say, it's the internet. I was only remarking on you missing the joke.

[Puddi III]

How to do you know if someone has blocked you? I find it unfathomable that someone would feel the need to block lil ol' me. It would be an honour tho, not gonna lie.

 

Only because he felt so self-important that he needed to announce it, lol.

 

I guess maybe OT was a little toxic, at that.

 

To neo-confederates and zealots.

 

What a shame.

 

I think YohkoOhno probably hit on the most correct reason for all this though. One with a lot less ill-will than many of us are making it out to be. Just terrible communication.