3173 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Sure they could do it but it is it worth it? Should they invest resources in having someone modify the structure in order to facilitate this? That would be a fairly big change and if users are able to posts tweets, it doesn't look like it would be worth the pursue. They have the ability to do it but it is simply just not viable.

 

I didn't mean users posting tweets. Just a live feed that shows the most recent tweets tweeted as they happened. Then if someone wanted to comment on them they could click on it and jump to Twitter straight from here.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

For example, attempts to suppress the prominence of counter viewpoints through burying posts with repetitious noise, like self aggrandizing or cliques talking about individual users active in a discussion in the third person in attempts to socially isolate them are counter to the site philosophy.

Just on this specific point, this is actually the standard tactic of the DA:I userbase rather than the OT userbase. It does happen in very exceptional cases on the OT (Cassandra Saturn and Leo threads for example), but this is part and parcel procedure of Dragon Age fans to the point where topic derailing and passive aggressive personal swipes at minority thinkers is the defining culture over there.

I'd go one step further and argue that it was a culture fostered by the likes of David Gaider and his snarky responses to Dragon Age critics on the BSN. Whilst a developer has every right to be snarky (and subsequently get roasted for it everywhere but here), the moderation team did not step up and enforce better behaviour in the aftermath because the ones acting "counter to the site philosophy" are the ones defending BioWare's decisions and games.

[malloc]

I didn't mean users posting tweets. Just a live feed that shows the most recent tweets tweeted as they happened. Then if someone wanted to comment on them they could click on it and jump to Twitter straight from here.

Still though, building that live feed work flow compared to the physical current work flow where the user posts tweets are two huge different animals. I do not see bioware investing man power into the forums moreover using developer resources to build that would not be realistic. The twitter thread is a handful of developer tweets posted by a diligent fan. It works and the user base is quite small. I do not see the need for such a feature at present.

Now if it became too much work to physically post the tweets , you had enough resources and and multiple sources? That would be a good investment. From a cost benefit it would be low priority.

However this is a high level guess, if we go deeper we might find out that there are certain plugins you could use to reduce development time and what not.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

It wouldn't take up too much time to get something like that working, in theory.

 

Twitter does the legwork for you, they've already created a live feed widget for anyone to use. You just need to embed the code into your website's HTML.

 

https://dev.twitter....edded-timelines

 

It's a kind of feature that I can't imagine would take more than a couple of manhours to test and implement. Literally. Many community built sites that lack full time developers on staff have this feature already, including a few that I personally frequent. But I do agree that BioWare is looking to minimise any and all resources on this site. So they wouldn't bother.

[Reezus Christ]

Still though, building that live feed work flow compared to the physical current work flow where the user posts tweets are two huge different animals. I do not see bioware investing man power into the forums moreover using developer resources to build that would not be realistic. The twitter thread is a handful of developer tweets posted by a diligent fan. It works and the user base is quite small. I do not see the need for such a feature at present.

Now if it became too much work to physically post the tweets , you had enough resources and and multiple sources? That would be a good investment. From a cost benefit it would be low priority.

However this is a high level guess, if we go deeper we might find out that there are certain plugins you could use to reduce development time and what not.

Yo I'mma need you to seriously consider practicing "layman's speak".

[YohkoOhno]

What are people supposed to do when there's nothing to talk about? Shut up and leave until it's time to run BioWare's hype machine again?

 

 

 

In essence, yes.  Not in such a blunt way, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with forum traffic going down during "off" periods.  Remember, the primary purpose any company has a forum is to facilitate communications about their products.  It's like WiFi in a coffee shop--the primary purpose is not to be an Internet Cafe, it's to give paying customers a perk so they can enjoy a few cups of coffee.

 

If the forum has low traffic during an off year (no Bioware games) and triple traffic after a release, the forum is doing its job.  

[Fidite Nemini]

In essence, yes.  Not in such a blunt way, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with forum traffic going down during "off" periods.  Remember, the primary purpose any company has a forum is to facilitate communications about their products. [...]

 

If the forum has low traffic during an off year (no Bioware games) and triple traffic after a release, the forum is doing its job.  

 

That is correct, but only really well for the company, not it's community.

 

And since the friendly words were these changes are here to strengthen the community, it makes those actions either wrong, or the given reasoning questionable. Which is why people ask for better communication and why people from the community ask to have Offtopic back (and it's not just Offtopic regulars who have said that closing the latter was unnecessary).

[YohkoOhno]

And since the friendly words were these changes are here to strengthen the community, it makes those actions either wrong, or the given reasoning questionable. Which is why people ask for better communication and why people from the community ask to have Offtopic back (and it's not just Offtopic regulars who have said that closing the latter was unnecessary).

 

No, that was never said in the original announcement.  Read the first post.  The exact wording is "provide a better experience on our forums".  The followup used the words "but our hope is this will create a stronger forum community in the long run".

 

I think the key is interpretation.  In your opinion, you think this weakens the community, but I think your focus is not the same as the owners of the site.  I think it's clear from the announcements that they want to keep the forums focused on the games Bioware produces.  Your arguing semantics where I think you're missing the bigger picture.

[Fawx9]

It wouldn't take up too much time to get something like that working, in theory.

 

Twitter does the legwork for you, they've already created a live feed widget for anyone to use. You just need to embed the code into your website's HTML.

 

https://dev.twitter....edded-timelines

 

It's a kind of feature that I can't imagine would take more than a couple of manhours to test and implement. Literally. Many community built sites that lack full time developers on staff have this feature already, including a few that I personally frequent. But I do agree that BioWare is looking to minimise any and all resources on this site. So they wouldn't bother.

 

Event without doing that, its really simple to just have a CM post the day's worth of relevant tweets in their own thread. Blizzard does this exact thing with 1 or 2 mods taking turns doing the updates. I know that might scare Bioware as that means someone will actually have to do work on the forums, but it isn't the most grueling of tasks.

[Fidite Nemini]

No, that was never said in the original announcement.  Read the first post.  The exact wording is "provide a better experience on our forums".  The followup used the words "but our hope is this will create a stronger forum community in the long run".

 

I think the key is interpretation.  In your opinion, you think this weakens the community, but I think your focus is not the same as the owners of the site.  I think it's clear from the announcements that they want to keep the forums focused on the games Bioware produces.  Your arguing semantics where I think you're missing the bigger picture.

 

Where did I say I'm basing my argumentation on the first post only?

 

I'm not arguing semantics, I'm arguing the other side of the medal. Having your forum only be active during the game hype is all dandy for the company. But having a deserted forum during the hiatus in between games is bad for the community for reasons that have been explained plentiful, so I'm not regurgitating those again. And my point is an Offtopic forum helps the community bridge that hiatus without losing contact with others.

[YohkoOhno]

But having a deserted forum during the hiatus in between games is bad for the community for reasons that have been explained plentiful, so I'm not regurgiating those again. And my point is an Offtopic forum helps the community bridge that hiatus without losing contact with others.

 

And I think if the community is really healthy and the type of community Bioware is actively seeking--people who are playing their current games, which is the only purpose of the community, then it doesn't matter if there's lull periods.  People will come back if they are interested.  You don't need to have conversations in the downtime periods.  

 

If people form their own definitions of the community and create their own bonds, that's fine, but that's not the purpose of a corporate owned forum to handle, and in some ways can be counter to what they want, and I don't think they owe anybody anything.  I think people are misinterpreting things.

[Fidite Nemini]

 

 

[...] and I don't think they owe anybody anything. [...]

 

If that's the angle you want to argue, then let me clarify that in this case, you no longer have a community and instead just people you merely tolerate. And whoever would argue they're still part of a BioWare community is then misinterpreting that relationship.

 

Having a community means interaction. If they want a community, that's what they have to cultivate, that's what they do indeed owe a community, no buts - no ifs.

[YohkoOhno]

Having a community means interaction. If they want a community, that's what they have to cultivate, that's what they do indeed owe a community, no buts - no ifs.

 

Well, they do interact with the greater community.  There's plenty of interaction on Facebook, Twitter, even here, Reddit, cons, etc.  The community of fans is healthy and I see them being treated rather well. Killing an off-topic forum does not equate an abuse of the community, because it can be argued that community is not the one being curated.

[Iakus]

 

I'm not arguing semantics, I'm arguing the other side of the medal. Having your forum only be active during the game hype is all dandy for the company. But having a deserted forum during the hiatus in between games is bad for the community for reasons that have been explained plentiful, so I'm not regurgitating those again. And my point is an Offtopic forum helps the community bridge that hiatus without losing contact with others.

I'm not so sure it actually qualifies as a "community" anymore.  More like a mob like the one that forms when Immortam Joe lets the water flow for a few minutes at a time in Fury Road.

[Fidite Nemini]

Well, they do interact with the greater community.  There's plenty of interaction on Facebook, Twitter, even here, Reddit, cons, etc.

 

How so?

 

The only BioWare activity I see here is Jesse Reid adressing technical issues. Everyone else left to make one-way communications on Twitter, Facebook and the only forum that BioWare actually has discussions with people in is Reddit.

[Puddi III]

Well, they do interact with the greater community.  There's plenty of interaction on Facebook, Twitter, even here, Reddit, cons, etc.  The community of fans is healthy and I see them being treated rather well. Killing an off-topic forum does not equate an abuse of the community, because it can be argued that community is not the one being curated.

 

Seeing you say Fidite is the one arguing semantics and then seeing the mental gymnastics you're doing to define 'the community' as every conceivable internet community related to BioWare except that smelly off-topic section they had is kind of funny.

 

Yes, they probably do see their forums (not just off-topic) as largely vestigial and annoying.

 

That has been clear for some time.

 

While it may be true, it is a callous truth, and a short sighted one IMO, since it really wouldn't have been such an effort to retain that extra group of customers if they only had the business sense to give a damn. And if it's the truth we do at least deserve it plainly, not the PR bullshit we got. We are a community they fostered and used to curate, even if they can't be bothered now.

 

Something as simple "We would like to redirect our efforts toward other avenues of communication, so we are consolidating our own forums. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause" would have been sufficient even if it's still stupid. At least it's honestly stupid and not just insultingly so.

[YohkoOhno]

While it may be true, it is a callous truth, and a short sighted one IMO, since it really wouldn't have been such an effort to retain that extra group of customers if they only had the business sense to give a damn. And if it's the truth we do at least deserve it plainly, not the PR bullshit we got. We are a community they fostered and used to curate, even if they can't be bothered now.

 

Something as simple "We would like to redirect our efforts toward other avenues of communication, so we are consolidating our own forums. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause" would have been sufficient even if it's still stupid. At least it's honestly stupid and not just insultingly so.

 

But, again, they DID say it plainly.

 

 

 

Finally, we have removed the Off-Topic boards. We want to keep the conversations on our boards focused on BioWare and our games. Since other communities do exist for such off-topic discussions, we feel it's important to foster conversations within our community that can't be found outside these boards.

 

That's simple and plain.  The original post is simple and plain.  There's no room for misinterpretation.  

 

I think no matter what some people are actively looking to be offended, or will be offended at the act no matter how it was worded, or over-analyzing every single word and phrase somebody at Bioware says and attempting to interpret it in the worst possible way.

[Puddi III]

It's bullshit. Conversations that can't be found outside these boards? Like what? You can find conversations about their games anywhere.

 

The part about creating a stronger forum community, that you left out this time, is also bullshit.

 

Sure, people will be offended regardless because, like I said, it's an offensively stupid decision. But you should acknowledge that there are better and worse ways of communicating that, and what we got is classic BioWare since they soured on the place a few years ago.

[TobiTobsen]

I think no matter what some people are actively looking to be offended, or will be offended at the act no matter how it was worded.

 

It's rather easy to be offended when you're getting evicted with a "generous" 12 minutes heads-up, after being told that your conversations are not appreciated, and you're noticing that the "community manager" coincidentally left for an event right after posting that announcement.

[Puddi III]

Who barely anyone in the community even knew was the community manager until a BioWare employee who had nothing to do with this was kind enough to have a chat with us in the new forum. Or until his interview with one of their favored youtube/convention fans.

[YohkoOhno]

 

The part about creating a stronger forum community, that you left out this time, is also bullshit.

 

I left that out because that was a response given outside of the original announcement, and quite frankly I think it's just a communication hiccup.  You're seeing it as "PR Bullshit", but he only responded because of all the volumes of posts here, and at least in my opinion, it's reactions like yours that prevent Bioware from engaging in the community a bit more, because every possible statement is scrutinized and analyzed and spun whatever way you want to interpret it--I think by stronger community he meant the type of community that is truly interested in Bioware's games, for instance.  

 

And they can't win, because even when you get somebody who is more willing to act like a peer, such as David Gaider, they get criticized for being "offensive" if they don't coddle the userbase.  Damned if you are careful with language and use formal PR statements, damned if you are honest unless you are actually sucking up to the fanbase.

 

I doubt they could have handled it any better way other than they did.  

[Puddi III]

I doubt they could have handled it any better way other than they did.

Ok.

[Gravisanimi]

I doubt they could have handled it any better way other than they did.  

1. 12 minutes should have been a week at least.
2. Communicate with us after the fact, more than just one poorly thrown together excuse for an explanation.
3. Simply have said a month or 3 in advance "We've been thinking of cutting the Off-Topic to have fans use other avenues, we will keep you informed"
4. More than 12 minutes.
5. Do things that people going to school for PR or similar fields don't deem dumb.

[spirosz]

6. Not closing down the OT section. 

[Vroom Vroom]

I don't get how anyone could defend this decision. Bad decision was bad.