3173 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

I don't know why I was surprised by this change. The signs have been clear for years. The anonymous mods who never explain their decisions, the site rules that make it difficult to post criticism, the total absence of a community manager, the lack of posts by developers and BioWare's focus on reddit, Facebook, tumblr, Twitter and their blog... really, we should have seen this coming.

 

BioWare has no clue what community is all about. That this one lasted as long as it did despite everything they did is a miracle already. What's one more stab in the back now? We've been bleeding for years.

 

I defended DA2, because it really isn't a bad game and did a lot of things better than DA:O.

I didn't complain about the ME3 endings because at that point the franchise was more nonsense and Space Magic™ than logic anyway. Also, the MP is great.

I did warn BioWare during the SW:TOR beta that their vision of creating a rival to WoW would never, ever work as long as they copied WoW and dressed it up in a Star Wars outfit. It turned out to be the very first BioWare game I didn't buy.

 

Then came DA:I, which was totally not what I expected, wanted or enjoyed. DA2 at least had the excuse of rushed development... so DA:I was actually what they wanted to release... meh. At this point you lost me as your customer who pre-orders every game you make.

 

ME:A is your last chance to win me back... but it's 1.5 years off in the future. What am I supposed to do in the meantime? Talk about nothing?

If I leave today, I might never come back and who knows if I'll even remember ME:A. Maybe I'll grab it from the bargain bin in 3 years, who knows?

 

This forum is what holds everything together. All your franchises, all your fans... they are here. Now you're actively working to remove the glue that keeps us together... the community is going to splinter and fall apart. Why do you believe this will make a stronger community?

 

Does "stronger" mean no more criticism? Only fans praising your games and shouting down everyone who dares to have a different opinion?

 

Well, I can tell you now that this was one of your worst ideas in years. Not that you'd ever listen to me... you never did.

 

An offtopic forum functions as a valve in a community. Without it, your regular forums will get overrun with offtopic conversations, requiring you to moderate more often. Since you don't have the manpower to do this, you'll have to crack down on offenders more harshly, suspending posters for longer times and outright deleting accounts.

This in turn will shift the mood of the community and result in more splintering. Your fanboys will stay and the rest will move on to places where they won't be discriminated against.

After a while traffic here will slow down to a point where having a forum isn't actually necessary anymore. You gain nothing from always positive feedback because it doesn't help you to improve. So you close the forum and rely on established social media.

 

You can only alienate your fans so often before they stop being your fans. You're doing the opposite of what you should be doing if you actually wanted a stronger community. Where are the community managers? Why isn't anyone (with one or two rare exceptions) talking to us anymore? Is anyone even reading our feedback, our concerns?

 

I can promise you this: Your changes will not lead to a stronger community. They won't improve the forum and they will lead to a multitude of problems down the line. You actually expect posters to put everything in spoiler tags? Seriously? Have you ever been on a forum?

Reducing the number of boards? Because putting everything into its proper category was so bad? Now you're mixing threads that have nothing to do with each other and make finding what you're looking for way more difficult than it has to be.

 

I am still struggling with the idea that you're actually serious about this. Because... really?! Who made that decision? Do they even know anything about communities?

Sorry, but it's because of this that I can't believe your intent is to strengthen the community. All signs point towards destruction, with only your word saying otherwise. How much is your word worth these days?

[MerAnne]

Did Bioware intentionally make changes to the project pages?  Or is it an unplanned 'feature'

 

Based on the recent change to the forums I decided to update my project pages in case Bioware decided to make unannounced (or rather announced after the fact) changes to the projects as well.   Just a simple announcement that I was closing discussions/comments, but users could feel free to contact me through private messaging.  Instead of posting the message, I got a blank white screen - twice.  No message.

 

So Bioware, is this a bug that has been there for a while and I have noticed?  Did you shut down the Project discussions without telling us first?  Or is this a side effect of some other change that you haven't announced?

[MerAnne]

Some very valid points have been made here, but I don't expect much in the way of a response from Bioware.  After all, no one has showered them with praise for this ill conceived idea.  Not sure why I bothered to post the issue with the project pages other than it is not clear where problems should be reported. 

 

And I'm   over the whole fiasco.

[Deathangel008]

Because... really?! Who made that decision?

idiots. by far the friendliest word i can find, sorry.

really looks like they dont want to have a community but an army of brainless fanboy-zombies.

[BadgerladDK]

Merging some of these forums absolutely makes sense (I can't remember when a new thread was started in the equipment forum for DAIMP, or even remember the proper name for that subforum), but getting rid of off-topic is a truly bad idea. And I don't even get hit that hard since the MP forums are my main stomping ground and those are actually pretty tight-nit with good dev support from the beard trio. But between releases, it was a good place to go to connect with other fans with shared interests, you know... a community. I had a few good chats about Dr Who between the end of content for ME3 and the release of DA:I.

 

You guys might have noticed you tend to have quite long cycles between releases. This is a good thing. But out of sight, out of mind is not a cliche for nothing. If you cut people lose for a couple of years at a time, don't be surprised if they forget to come back.

 

Sadly it seems these days, if you can't/won't attend cons (preferably in cosplay), you're considered a second rate fan.

 

This whole debacle just serves as a reminder of how good I've had it with some gaming forums in the past, and actually has me sitting here pining for the old City of Heroes forums, bar none the best open community I've been part of. Anyone who wants to do forums right would do well to approach Jo Burba with a large sack of cash and see if she'll ditch ZeniMax. CuppaJo was da bomb and had the CoH forums eating out of her hand.

 

Wow, this annoyed me a lot more than I'd have thought, given I haven't even clicked on off topic in months, and go weeks between visits to anything not mp-related.

[Scofield]

All that remains is the name tbh, an even that dont hold much now, but im like a child that keeps wanting punished, i just cant help myself

[EarthboundNess]

ME:A is your last chance to win me back... but it's 1.5 years off in the future. What am I supposed to do in the meantime? Talk about nothing?

If I leave today, I might never come back and who knows if I'll even remember ME:A. Maybe I'll grab it from the bargain bin in 3 years, who knows?

 

This part in particular. The days when I'd buy something on Bioware's name alone are long since gone.

 

The end of 2015 and much of 2016 is fit to burst with games that I'd more than happily purchase.  But I'm living on a students budget, so only a small percentage of those will I even get to play. 

 

So rather than looking for reasons to get certain games, I'm looking for reasons not to. 

 

Flatlining a community I've been a part of for many years? Yeah... I'd say that's a big fat no for ME:A. Plenty more fish in the sea.

 

That'll no doubt seem petty to some, but eh. So was closing a forum within minutes of the announcement.

[Ohnenick]

nick! I haven't seen you around these parts in so long. But I'll be popping into The Shelter more often now since they don't want us here anymore.

Well I moved to the Shelter over the last blowup concerning off topic groups. But I had to come see this latest idiocy with my own eyes.

[Avejajed]

Why would a bunch of people who don't like Bioware much anyway hang out at their forums every day?

[Dean_the_Young]

I appreciate most of the changes.

 

However, while I have rarely used the OT forum, I think it's not a good idea to remove it. An OT forum serves to link the community in times when little interesting is happening and serves as a temporary refuge from heated debates. Please reconsider.

 

I'll echoe this. The franchise forum reorg? I can understand that. But OT?

 

I get that there was a lack of moderator involvement... but that didn't seem to be too much of an issue from what I saw. It was largely self-regulating as it was. So what was the issue being fixed?

 

If it's just the zots of mega-threads, I could get capping thread sizes. And if it was a clutter of old inactive threads, auto-deletion of old threads makes sense.

 

But OT was a good place for Bioware fans to be that community, without the acrimony of the debates in the story forums. It served a role just by existing. What's the gain in losing it?

 

 

[DaemionMoadrin]

Why would a bunch of people who don't like Bioware much anyway hang out at their forums every day?

 

They won't and they don't.

[Deathangel008]

Why would a bunch of people who don't like Bioware much anyway hang out at their forums every day?

there are people who dont want to talk about a single game for years... i, for example, am not interested in DA, have nothing left to say about ME3, and dont want to talk about ME:A over a year before its release. i like all 4 bioware games i have, but not enough to talk about hem nonstop.
and whats wrong with having an offtopic section?

[Avejajed]

They won't and they don't.

 

If you say so...

[EarthboundNess]

Why would a bunch of people who don't like Bioware much anyway hang out at their forums every day?

 

Because a lot of us once did like them. Or as in my case, still did up until a few hours ago, just to a lesser degree.

 

Its the people we met during that time who were worth sticking around for.

 

But interaction isn't conducive to a healthy forum apparently.

[Avejajed]

there are people who dont want to talk about a single game for years... i, for example, am not interested in DA, have nothing left to say about ME3, and dont want to talk about ME:A over a year before its release. i like all 4 bioware games i have, but not enough to talk about hem nonstop.
and whats wrong with having an offtopic section?

 

I never said there was anything wrong with having an offtopic section. As a matter of fact, I've repeated many times that I think this was a silly move when there are far more important problems with the forums that I think should have been tackled first.

 

My question is why so many of the people here seem to hate everything about Bioware and haven't liked a game since BG and still come here every day. I don't personally see the draw.

[Deathangel008]

If you say so...

criticizing bioware doesnt necessarily mean not liking them.

[DaemionMoadrin]

My question is why so many of the people here seem to hate everything about Bioware and haven't liked a game since BG and still come here every day. I don't personally see the draw.

 

I don't see those people here. How did you arrive at this assumption?

 

We're all fans, we bought and played most of their current games and we are still considering getting the next ones, too.

[Avejajed]

criticizing bioware doesnt necessarily mean not liking them.

 

True.

 

I'd say very little of the criticism is constructive, unfortunately. And even less is respectful.

[Avejajed]

I don't see those people here. How did you arrive at this assumption?

 

We're all fans, we bought and played most of their current games and we are still considering getting the next ones, too.

 

Maybe it's just I hang out too much in the not-off topic forums. Much more vitriol there, I guess.

[Reezus Christ]

Because a lot of us once did like them. Or as in my case, still did up until a few hours ago, just to a lesser degree.

 

Its the people we met during that time who were worth sticking around for.

 

But interaction isn't conducive to a healthy forum apparently.

Exactly. I hated you though.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Maybe it's just I hang out too much in the not-off topic forums. Much more vitriol there, I guess.

 

This is what happens when you have unmoderated discussions without feedback from the devs. People who aren't heard become frustrated and lash out.

[Obadiah]

Why would a bunch of people who don't like Bioware much anyway hang out at their forums every day?

I like Bioware games. I just don't have a whole lot to say about them since DA:I (there really doesn't seem like that much to talk about story-wise with DA:I). So, I went to off-topic to interact with other folks who like Bioware games to see what else they're doing.

[EarthboundNess]

True.

 

I'd say very little of the criticism is constructive, unfortunately. And even less is respectful.

 

To a point. I mean, I can at least speak for myself and I've very rarely spoken of them too harshly in the past. And outside of a specific joking manner, I can safely say the same for the majority of off topic frequenters. But outside of there more recently... I suppose I wouldn't know.

 

Regardless, respect is earned, and works a lot better when mutually reciprocated. From this point on they don't deserve respect, for their own complete lack of it to everyone involved. Who at the end of the day, are all customers in some shape of form, and are therefore helping to pay their wages. Not the other way around. They just give me something to do in my spare time. I'm hardly obliged to treat them with any respect, but I'd like to think I've done so up until now regardless. 

 

But yeah... as someone who studies PR I can absolutely empathise with not shooting the messenger, at least when that message isn't so poorly constructed and followed upon. I honestly can't believe that anyone would think closing the OT was a good idea in the first place, let alone the absolute ridiculousness of doing it minutes after the announcement with no prior indication of such a thing ever happening. Not really all that respectful tbh.   

[EarthboundNess]

Exactly. I hated you though.

 

 

Love you too Reezy!

[Avejajed]

To a point. I mean, I can only speak for myself and I've very rarely spoken of them too harshly in the past. And outside of a specific joking manner, I can safely say the same for the majority of off topic frequenters. But outside of there more recently... I suppose I wouldn't know.

 

Regardless, respect is earned, and works a lot better when mutually reciprocated. From this point on they don't deserve respect, for their own complete lack of it to everyone involved. Who at the end of the day, are all customers in some shape of form, and are therefore helping to pay their wages. Not the other way around. They just give me something to do in my spare time. I'm not obliged to treat them with any respect, but I'd like to think I've done so up until now regardless. 

 

But yeah... as someone who studies PR I can absolutely empathise with not shooting the messenger, at least when that message isn't so poorly constructed and followed upon. I honestly can't believe that anyone would think closing the OT was a good idea in the first place, let alone the absolute ridiculousness of doing it minutes after the announcement with no prior indication of such a thing ever happening. Not really all that respectful tbh.   

 

I completely agree.

 

That's why I think there are specific things that Bioware's community managers- or whoever is in charge of this place ultimately- could do to foster goodwill. It's both of our faults, really. Not "us" specifically, but there are some people who just can't let well enough alone and make the forums miserable- threatening devs, being generally disruptive and trollish for the sake of being trollish.

 

But it's really all about the moderators.

 

The anonymous moderator system is broken and does not work. It doesn't foster an open line of communication, first of all- and doesn't allow for the moderators themselves to have any accountability. Delete, delete, delete, ignore, delete. What they need is moderators who swiftly ban people who make any sort of threats at all. Named moderators we grow to get to know. Moderators who are active, responsive, and encourage conversation while striking down those who do not foster appropriate conversations.

 

There should also be a handful of volunteer mods- mods without banning capabilities so they don't go around with a power-hungry personal vendetta- , but mods from the posters themselves that can be trusted with the responsibilities such as moving  threads, adding spoiler tags where needed...duties that keep the actual mods from having to do "forum cleanup" daily.

 

Each sub-forum should have at least one mod, possibly more, depending on how busy the forum is. And that way each person isn't running all over the place trying to keep an eye on the whole place. Don't string them too thin, but instead give them specific areas that they are responsible for. 

 

I have lots more ideas but I'm wasting my breath I think lol.