3173 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

This could all have been avoided (reatrocatively before you were born, because the big E is that awesome), if only you gave Runner Lotion Soronarr, the Right Hand of the Emperor, your vote for BSN-president.

 

Fixed.

[mousestalker]

This may help. It certainly is reminiscent of certain posters here.

[Morty Smith]

Fixed.

 

[Kaydreamer]

My god, are people who run this "studio" if you could call it that apsolutely retarded? Bad enough that their games are donkey **** they now alienate entire segments of their fanbase. I don't visit these forums much but every time I do they do something stupid. Anyway I'm sorry for the people who enjoyed the off topic section of the forums, but you can't fight stupid.

 

And above, we see an example of the kind of pointless vitriol which drives the Bioware staff away from engaging with the community here, thereby becoming the root cause of this whole mess to begin with.

 

Mods? If you'd like to see the forums become a more pleasant environment to both participate and work in, this is the kind of negative behaviour you want to discourage.

[LPPrince]

Exactly. But discourage it at no cost towards those who don't do that kind of stuff.

[DarthSliver]

it is in my experience most of the negativity on this forums comes from the forums under Bioware game titles. Especially when the game releases everyone is bashing the game to no end like its their day job. I saw the off-topic forums and seen that everyone there was being civil for the topic's that I visited, alot more civil than what I seen in Dragon Age Forums and Mass Effect Forums and the newly announced Mass Effect Andromeda forums. You state your opinion in those sections you can expect to get shot with vile comments and surprised when you don't every time you post your own opinion in there. 

[Monica83]

This thread won't be locked for now because it is a way for the rest of you to communicate with us on how you feel about this decision. People who are violating the TOS in this thread, however, may have their posts moderated.

 

I feel a little upset about it... That was a unnecessary change...Why all this censorship?

Because sadly it is... 

[MegaIllusiveMan]

This may help. It certainly is reminiscent of certain posters here.

 

"What music are you currently listening to, Mouse?"

 

Heh... Oh, the good old Off-Topic Days...

[Monica83]

By the way this is just... unaccetable...

 

Removing for improve?..Improve on what?

Honestly many posts in the feedback section and off topic also offered great way for bioware to improve as a company...

But no... Let's censor evrything.....

 

Now dear bioware tell me again how your listen your fans?... Really do it....

[Kantr]

It seems Conal is not the Community Manager, a guy called Shay Pomeroy is. (His twitter bio says Community Manager for ME and DA)

[MrFob]

And above, we see an example of the kind of pointless vitriol which drives the Bioware staff away from engaging with the community here, thereby becoming the root cause of this whole mess to begin with.
 
Mods? If you'd like to see the forums become a more pleasant environment to both participate and work in, this is the kind of negative behaviour you want to discourage.

True but honestly, look at this thread. This is the thread of one of the most volatile and controversial decisions that BW has made in the last 2 years (at least as far as this forum is concerned). Yet, within 89 pages, there is more than 99% civil discussion and constructive criticism. I am still amazed that the fact that less than 1% of posts are inappropriate can drive devs away. This is the internet for gods sake. Has anyone looked at an average youtube comment section or at any other boards? You connect 6 billion people with each other and there going to be a couple million jerks among them. If I had a dollar for every time I've been insulted by random people on the internet, I'd be rich.

That's not to say these people shouldn't be banned or otherwise punished (I fully endorse the notion in this thread to increase moderation as I have stated before) but I always hear people talk about the 1 in 100 answers that calls the devs stupid in response to one of their posts. Yes, that's mean but seriously that's all that it is and it's really easy to ignore those guys while talking to the other 99, half of which are going to thank you for posting in the first place and the other half of which actually has valid criticism that is voiced in a civil and )sometimes) even eloquent manner.

I wish people (and the devs specifically) would focus on the positive aspects of this community, rather than the negative because I think the positive outweighs the negative by far.

[Elhanan]

This is a single thread out of hundreds, and the action may have vacated some of the trolls, too. And it is natural to focus more on the negative, esp when it involves demeaning rhetoric and threats. Not saying it is fair; saying it is understandable to me.

[MrFob]

This is a single thread out of hundreds, and the action may have vacated some of the trolls, too. And it is natural to focus more on the negative, esp when it involves demeaning rhetoric and threats. Not saying it is fair; saying it is understandable to me.

Demeaning and threats is what moderating is for. And this thread is probably the toughest one around and even that doesn't make it go all out bad. Show me the dev posts on these boards in, say, the last 18 months that had more volatile responses than positive responses or ones that address the the issue in a civil manner.
Maybe I just frequent the most benign areas of the forums or something but I simply don't see that toxic mayhem that apparently drives the devs away and that everyone is talking about.

[Iakus]

True but honestly, look at this thread. This is the thread of one of the most volatile and controversial decisions that BW has made in the last 2 years (at least as far as this forum is concerned). Yet, within 89 pages, there is more than 99% civil discussion and constructive criticism. I am still amazed that the fact that less than 1% of posts are inappropriate can drive devs away. This is the internet for gods sake. Has anyone looked at an average youtube comment section or at any other boards? You connect 6 billion people with each other and there going to be a couple million jerks among them. If I had a dollar for every time I've been insulted by random people on the internet, I'd be rich.

That's not to say these people shouldn't be banned or otherwise punished (I fully endorse the notion in this thread to increase moderation as I have stated before) but I always hear people talk about the 1 in 100 answers that calls the devs stupid in response to one of their posts. Yes, that's mean but seriously that's all that it is and it's really easy to ignore those guys while talking to the other 99, half of which are going to thank you for posting in the first place and the other half of which actually has valid criticism that is voiced in a civil and )sometimes) even eloquent manner.

I wish people (and the devs specifically) would focus on the positive aspects of this community, rather than the negative because I think the positive outweighs the negative by far.

Heck I've been caught up in my share of volatile "discussions" but if things get too bad, I have an ignore function.

 

Moderators can go full-on Mjolnir on troublemakers and make this place better for civil discourse, if that's what it takes to coax back devs.

[Elhanan]

demeaning and threats is what moderating is for. And this thread is probably the toughest one around and even that doesn't make it go all out bad. Show me the dev posts on these boards in, say, the last 18 months that had more volatile responses than with positive responses or ones that address the the issue in a civil manner.
Maybe I just frequent the most benign areas of the forums but I simply don't see that toxic mayhem that apparently drives the devs away that everyone is talking about.

This one at a glance springs to mind; might wish to peruse it in reverse order. Note the venom spewed at a review writer, as well as some of the posts that actually remained intact. And this was a moderated thread:

http://forum.bioware...concerns/page-1

One could also search OT for profanity and other violations of the ToS for more direct causal possibilities.

[MrFob]

This one at a glance springs to mind; might wish to peruse it in reverse order. Note the venom spewed at a review writer, as well as some of the posts that actually remained intact. And this was a moderated thread:

http://forum.bioware...concerns/page-1

One could also search OT for profanity and other violations of the ToS for more direct causal possibilities.

I just skim-read the first 20 pages of this thread + the dev posts in there (sorry but it's a 700+ page thread) and I see 99% of people with technical questions and concerns, asking questions or stating that they want updates that make their game playable without insults (though sternly, which I can understand, given the frustrating situation they must be in).
In the dev posts, I also read a specific comment, saying that the worst of the insults and harrasment actually happened on social media. Isn't that kind of an indication FOR the forums, rather than against them? Maybe the bad parts of that thread come in the later pages or something and I just didn't get to it yet.

My argument is not that the forums are perfect, my argument is that they are not worse than any other place on the net, Reddit, FB and twitter included.

 

In fact, I believe they have advantages over them for passionate and outspoken BW employees, as mentioned when I expressed my confusion about the devs not returning to these boards and there, I did say that no one expects them to answer in tech support threads but rather in casual chats, as it happened in the olden days. That said, if they do want to help out folks, that's great and even in your example thread, the reaction of most users with fairly frustrating problems is mild IMO (from what I read so far at least).

 

Also, about our last sentence, profanity and ToS violations need to be moderated, no question there. Also, it's clear that an OT forum also needs moderation, which means some effort. Why that pays off though has been discussed to death in this very thread, so I am not going to reiterate all that now. However, I have however never seen profanity or ToS violations in response to dev posts in the OT. In fact, to my memory, people were always delighted when devs posted in OT. It's very posible that I missed something but usually, I am looking at dev posts so I'd be surprised if my memory is really that selective.

[Elhanan]

I just skim-read the first 20 pages of this thread + the dev posts in there (sorry but it's a 700+ page thread) and I see 99% of people with technical questions and concerns, asking questions or stating that they want updates that make their game playable without insults (though sternly, which I can understand, given the frustrating situation they must be in).
In the dev posts, I also read a specific comment, saying that the worst of the insults and harrasment actually happened on social media. Isn't that kind of an indication FOR the forums, rather than against them? Maybe the bad parts of that thread come in the later pages or something and I just didn't get to it yet.
 
Still, even if that were the case, when I expressed my confusion about the devs not returning to these boards, I did say that no one expects them to answer in tech support threads but rather in casual chats, as it happened in the olden days. That said, if they do want to help out folks, that's great and even in your example thread, the reaction of most users with fairly frustrating problems is mild IMO (from what I read so far at least).
 
Also, about our last sentence, profanity and ToS violations need to be moderated, no question there. Also, it's clear that an OT forum also needs moderation, which means some effort. Why that pays off though has been discussed to death in this very thread, so I am not going to reiterate all that now. However, I have however never seen profanity or ToS violations in response to dev posts in the OT. In fact, to my memory, people were always delighted when devs posted in OT. It's very posible that I missed something but usually, I am looking at dev posts so I'd be surprised if my memory is really that selective.

It started as a Tech complaint thread, and altered over time; reason I recommended reading it in reverse.

Cannot say I recall Dev hating in OT other than what was posted about CP, Stan Woo, and some moderators. But Bioware itself is often a target, and that drifts far away from constructive crit.

[MrFob]

Ok, read the last 10 or so pages. Still don't see really bad posts there. It just went really far off topic after 5 months, which is why it was locked. Where is the cesspool of profane lunacy in that?

 

EDIT: BTW, by that time, the devs had long left the thread. To be sure, I also read a couple of pages around the last dev post (in March 2014) and about the worst I could find was one guy calling the PC port "a piece of garbage". That's not a nice thing to say to be sure (and a bit of an exaggeration at that, I've played the game on PC as well). Funny thing is, he is immediately chasitzed for the remark by another forum user. That doesn't look like a toxic volatile community to me at all.

[Fawx9]

That thread has 700 pages of people trying to figure out why options were removed from from DA:I that were in DA:0/2 in terms of controlls, and other system issues. I'd expect it to get heated when it went on for months without fixes for the things people had problems with.

 

While it might not be pleasent, I can't say in anyway is that unique. I can look at the WoW forums right now and see for months there's been **** thrown everywhere over the design of flight, pvp, lfr, etc.

 

Are game forums a super fun place for devs? Probably not. The same way hfboards wouldnt be a fun place for an active NHL player to visit, just to see their character/skill constantly called into question. 

 

However removing OT, which they did on the WoW boards, wont fix anything. The only thing that cleans up communities is interaction and clear moderation. Cause I'll bet anything, that when ME4 is released, and if the PC port is bugy/has control issues, there will be another thread telling the dev and QA teams that they are morons for only testing with a gamepad and taking shortcuts that cause crashes during cutscene fps changes.

[DaemionMoadrin]

This one at a glance springs to mind; might wish to peruse it in reverse order. Note the venom spewed at a review writer, as well as some of the posts that actually remained intact. And this was a moderated thread:

http://forum.bioware...concerns/page-1

 

Isn't that the thread you frequented a lot just to tell everyone that you weren't having any problems and people should stop complaining because one just needs to change the keybindings and everything is perfect?

You played a huge role in derailing the thread and should have been reported for spamming and trolling. "This isn't a real problem, you must be playing the game wrong" was your main argument.

People had valid, technical issues and you dismissed them because everything was fine for you.

 

That thread is your best example? Seriously?

[MrFob]

Are game forums a super fun place for devs? Probably not.

I am saying that they could be, they should be. Probably not the tech support sections because there, things will get heated no matter what you do but in the story forums, general discussion etc., it should be fun to chat with the people who are just as crazy about your game as you are.
Would you have to be careful about what you say and which threads to post in? Sure (I wouldn't post in the romance treads even as an average joe user ). Would you get insulted ever now and so often? Well, let's face it, yes you would. But would you also get a lot of positive feedback and fun stories to share? I am convince that with proper moderation in this community, you would.

[Elhanan]

Ok, read the last 10 or so pages. Still don't see really bad posts there. It just went really far off topic after 5 months, which is why it was locked. Where is the cesspool of profane lunacy in that?
 
EDIT: BTW, by that time, the devs had long left the thread. To be sure, I also read a couple of pages around the last dev post (in March 2014) and about the worst I could find was one guy calling the PC port "a piece of garbage". That's not a nice thing to say to be sure (and a bit of an exaggeration at that, I've played the game on PC as well). Funny thing is, he is immediately chasitzed for the remark by another forum user. That doesn't look like a toxic volatile community to me at all.

I suggest looking at early Feb when Conal and Alan both made comments (see Bioware comments only). That may be around p 500. And as mentioned, the site did see moderation, so some of the posts breaking ToS may now be deleted.

But I am hardly the only one that witnessed the Days of Whine and Roses; others are still here, though POV's may vary.

[Morty Smith]

Finally, we have removed the Off-Topic boards. We want to keep the conversations on our boards focused on BioWare and our games. Since other communities do exist for such off-topic discussions, we feel it's important to foster conversations within our community that can't be found outside these boards.

 

Without a change in your companies own attitude and a plan beyond closing a section of conversations down, that won´t become a plausible reality.

[LPPrince]

Far as "conversations that can't be found outside these boards" that only happens when developers are here talking about their games and talking to us about other such things.

 

Given developers have chosen other avenues to have these conversations, it so happens that those conversations can be found everywhere BUT here.

[Reezus Christ]

Far as "conversations that can't be found outside these boards" that only happens when developers are here talking about their games and talking to us about other such things.

 

Given developers have chosen other avenues to have these conversations, it so happens that those conversations can be found everywhere BUT here.

Lol I thought this to myself a few days ago. I can't buy that generic spiel used to justify these changes to the forum. They could just be honest and say they don't want to have to moderate certain activity. As Fast Jimmy already said, all signs point to them not wanting us here. That's cool, just don't beat around the bush about it.