38 ответов в этой теме

[Abraham_uk]

Mass Effect 1: Moddable grenades

Mass Effect 2: Flash Bang and Inferno

or Mass Effect 3: Cluster, Lift, Inferno, Frag, Sticky, Multi-Frag, Heat Seeking, Arc etc...

 

 

How could they be done better in future games?

[Abraham_uk]

I must admit, that in my first play through I didn't bother with grenades.

I wasn't too fond of them in Mass Effect 1 and in Mass Effect 2 they only seemed useful when Kasumi was using them.

 

So when I started using grenades I found out that they're not too bad. They're pretty good if you're exploiting those combos.

Heck if grenades were the only way to detonate combos that could help resolve the "OMG biotic explosions, fire explosions, cryo explosions and tech bursts are way OP" issue that people keep bringing up. Honestly the more explosions the better!

 

In Mass Effect 3, they felt more impact, had better animation, better noise and did some serious damage even taking out low level mooks. The only disappointment was the lack of environmental destruction. If only my armour could be made out of whatever materials the environment is made of. Then I'd be invincible!

[Abraham_uk]

Any thoughts?

[cap and gown]

Why are you posting about combat and strategy in the combat and strategy forum? Haven't you heard? This forum is for threads about party members.

[Abraham_uk]

Why are you posting about combat and strategy in the combat and strategy forum? Haven't you heard? This forum is for threads about party members.

[rasblak]

I use them mostly against Banshees. James frags, Ashley Inferno's, and I concuss; James Carnages, Ashley Concusses, and I Carnage. Pandemonium on the battlefield!

 

I feel no shame in admitting that I don't hotkey grenades though; using the power wheel for those is a fitting tribute to the towering menace that Banshees are.

[Eleonora]

To be really honest, I only use them when my weapons and powers aren't very effective against an opponent (or cooling down, or I'm generally in a crappy situation) . Which is hardly ever. I just seem to forget about them most of the time (which is a shame, because they can be fun to use).

[capn233]

It is odd that there are so few in SP, whereas you are swimming in them in MP.

 

I didn't really miss grenades in ME2 (heavy weapons were probably supposed to be a replacement), and I wouldn't be too sad if the next ME game excluded them, or limited their number drastically.

 

If they were going to make them a larger part of the game, I would prefer them to be more like in ME1 where you modify them with an effect and they can stick to walls for remote detonation.

[mannygt]

Used mostly in ME1 with a Soldier class character.

[Abraham_uk]

It is odd that there are so few in SP, whereas you are swimming in them in MP.

 

I didn't really miss grenades in ME2 (heavy weapons were probably supposed to be a replacement), and I wouldn't be too sad if the next ME game excluded them, or limited their number drastically.

 

If they were going to make them a larger part of the game, I would prefer them to be more like in ME1 where you modify them with an effect and they can stick to walls for remote detonation.

 

 

I loved the fact you could modify them in Mass Effect 1, but for me they lacked impact.

There were times when I laid down a grenade right next to an opponent and the grenade would deal a tiny bit of damage.

 

I rarely use grenades. They are best for Multiplayer in Mass Effect 3. Play as a drell adept or an Arc Grenade spamming Quarian. It's a lot of fun.

[themikefest]

I rarely use grenades when I have them for the class I'm playing. Not sure why.

[Thrombin]

I didn't used to use them much in the past but I just finished a soldier runthrough in ME3 and found them pretty useful. 

 

I'm doing infiltrator now and I'm not really that keen on the Sticky Grenades. I seem to have a problem aiming them most of the time!

[capn233]

I like to get minimum points in sticky grenades, map them to 'G', throw them away at the beginning of the mission, and then use 'G' to reload cancel.

[Batarian Master Race]

Inferno Grenade and Chain Overload on an Engineer is a downright brutal combination. Especially with Garrus or Kaiden in your team. Wipes entire spawns.

[Youknow]

I thought they got better as the games went on TBH. How about a disruptive one? Where the enemies can no longer shoot for a set period of time and it depletes shields in the radius in which in landed? Can't remember if that actually WAS a grenade. 

 

Or some sort of substance that simply prohibits moving? That'd be cool.

 

I really don't think there's much else I could say against them outside of "MORE PLEASE." 

[Batarian Master Race]

I thought they got better as the games went on TBH. How about a disruptive one? Where the enemies can no longer shoot for a set period of time and it depletes shields in the radius in which in landed? Can't remember if that actually WAS a grenade. 

 

Or some sort of substance that simply prohibits moving? That'd be cool.

 

I really don't think there's much else I could say against them outside of "MORE PLEASE." 

 

Well, the Arc Grenade in multiplayer does terrible things to enemy shielding. Doesn't overload, sadly.

[afgncaap7]

I actually wouldn't mind if grenades were no longer considered "powers" but were instead something that anyone could equip that had it's own specific input command, with perhaps some exceptions for "exotic" grenades like multi-frag and homing. I think the multiplayer took the right step by making ammo mods an equipable item rather than a power and I'd like to see the same happen for grenades.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

I use them alot. They're good for setting up combos and everythng else.

[holdenagincourt]

Mass Effect 1: Moddable grenades

Mass Effect 2: Flash Bang and Inferno

or Mass Effect 3: Cluster, Lift, Inferno, Frag, Sticky, Multi-Frag, Heat Seeking, Arc etc...

 

 

How could they be done better in future games?

 

In the first game, they were clunky, low on clarity and just generally annoying, like most of Mass Effect 1's combat. More of a hindrance than a help in battle; might as well just pop Marksman and become a turret or have Liara use Singularity and then afk for a while.

 

In the second game, "grenades" were just normal powers. There was no separate mechanic for the abilities with the tag "grenade," so I guess they'd have to be assessed in comparison to every other power. It's possibly redundant to mention this, but this was my least favorite iteration, because grenades basically don't exist.

 

Mass Effect 3 did it the best, far and away. Grenades fit into combat smoothly and play an important role by ignoring the global cooldown table and target hit limit in exchange for requiring ammo and having a very low max ammo pool (not an issue in MP due to gear and the ubiquity of grenade caches). Many grenades have unusual targeting mechanics and require some experience to master, which gives different kits disparate gameplay "feels." The evolution trees could use some work (max grenade options should be dumped for some kind of gameplay progress/gear solution), but also feature some interesting options like Sticky Grenade evolution 9 and Homing Grenade evolution 9.

 

For the next game I would basically retain ME3's system but balance some of the numbers, while changing some more low-level things about combat that are problematic. The prevalence of power immunity and enemy dodge is hugely preferential to grenades and other non-targeted projectile powers, not to mention weapon damage builds in general, which is pretty much the basic fact of ME3MP from which all others are derived. Hopefully BioWare calms down with the power immunity, psychic dodges and armor spam, which throw a lot of stuff out of whack in MP. Some grenades do excessively high damage (most of them really, but Lift Grenade especially, which is probably the biggest misnomer in the game, along with nuclear fallout Inferno Grenade); some have too high of a radius (Frag, Arc, Cluster, Lift); some are on problematic kits that are too strong with them. On the other hand, Sticky Grenade probably leans a bit too much in the skill window direction, and Homing Grenade is hamstrung by its interaction with power immune enemies. Then there are the "grenade" powers that are not grenades, Stim Packs and Repair Matrix being notably egregious. Those two powers are an abject failure of an attempt to balance an overpowered mechanic with a limitation that is inherently flawed. If things like that are reprised, they should work on a charge system rather than through discoverable ammo, so that they are available in clutch engagements without the long cooldown that would be necessary if they were normal powers. Then they won't imbalance the kit in general through making endless ops packs and medigel (not to mention further goodies like weapon damage and movement speed) a fact of life.

 

I must admit, that in my first play through I didn't bother with grenades.

I wasn't too fond of them in Mass Effect 1 and in Mass Effect 2 they only seemed useful when Kasumi was using them.

 

So when I started using grenades I found out that they're not too bad. They're pretty good if you're exploiting those combos.

Heck if grenades were the only way to detonate combos that could help resolve the "OMG biotic explosions, fire explosions, cryo explosions and tech bursts are way OP" issue that people keep bringing up. Honestly the more explosions the better!

 

In Mass Effect 3, they felt more impact, had better animation, better noise and did some serious damage even taking out low level mooks. The only disappointment was the lack of environmental destruction. If only my armour could be made out of whatever materials the environment is made of. Then I'd be invincible!

 

It's funny to me that there are people who regard power combos as intrinsically OP. In what context is this argument being made?

 

I can see that being tenable in SP, but MP has so many more OP things than power combos. One of the ironies of your proposal is that grenades in and of themselves are almost certainly more overpowered than power combos. Making them the exclusive source of detonations is, in my opinion, an extremely bad idea that would only exacerbate the yawning power budget chasm between grenades and most other abilities, especially projectile powers.

 

I guess destructible environments would be realistic but I'm not gagging for it. The likelihood of something getting glitched due to chaos rendering after a tough battle, requiring a reload, is too much of a deterrent for my somewhat lukewarm preference.

[iM3GTR]

I like sticky grenades on multiplayer as an infiltrator. I use cloak, then throw one on a dragoon and watch him burn.

[Lars10178]

I didn't end up using them much in any of the games just because I had other things quick mapped to the controller like concussive shot. I know I liked the inferno grenades a bit, but I hardly used them. In ME3 it was fun in multiplayer to use any of the adept grenades. I don't think I used them much in ME1 until the hardcore mode when you could just spam the **** out of them. 

[spockjedi]

- In ME1, I only use them in emergency situations and during Feros to save the colonists.
- Never used a bonus power in ME2 other than Shield and Ammunition powers.
- In ME3, only used them extensively in two no-cooldown builds. I even like to complete the game without a single grenade!

[TevinterMagister]

ME1: My import is a Soldier so I used them quite a bit, but I felt they lacked killing power. Modding was nice though.

ME2: Flashbang for Engineer or Infiltrator would be my pick. Not part of the core game (only available through DLC) is a minus, Inferno was rubbish.

ME3: Inferno is great especially for classes that already has a grenade skill, Sentinel w/Inferno bonus allows some good combo chains like Inferno -> Warp -> Throw on armored targets. Or do a fire focused Engineer, fire melee, flamethrower turret, Inferno grenade and Incinerate for those who just want to burn all the things.

[geth47]

My case is very similar to Spockjedi.

 

I can play Mass Effect 1 without firing a single one. Well, except when I need them to incapacitate the colonists.

 

In a game that offers you infinite ammo the use of a gadget that has limited numbers sounds unpleasing to me.

 

In ME2, I never use them as Shepard. Kasumi is somewhat useful but I do not like her as a squad-mate. Since the ME1 versions left a bad taste in my mouth I played ME2 with an anti-grenade mindset. I do not like ME2 combat in general. Specially after the much superior ME3.

 

As for ME3, I oly use them near the end of a mission, when Im facing bosses. Harvesters, Geth Primes, multiple Banshees and Heavy Mechs are occasions that justify for me the use of grenades. But my personal rule is not to rely on them. 

 

Seriously, in ME3 is so easy to detonate explosions and combos that I see no use for grenades.

[gothpunkboy89]

I actually like the gernade set up of ME 1 better then 2 or 3.

 

Modable and able to throw them like a disk and detonate when you choose to. Had they been given a little bit more punch on higher difficulties and more access they would have been perfect.  I don't know about PC or X box but PS3 you had to be a skin flint on gernade usage do to lack of them.