179 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBestClass]

What's the best bonus talent for a Vanguard?



I think I might play as one.

[Gorn Kregore]

You have to be careful when using charge, you can't really charge into a punch of enemies at once cause you'll only get yourself killed horribly.

[Warskullx]

Kahmun wrote...

Usually when the term "High Risk" is used, it's followed by "High Reward".  I'm having a hard time finding the big payoff in this case.  Same armor, same damage, smaller range, and powers that only work when the enemy is
about to die anyway.

Charge is most certainly high reward.  A good example is pairing it with the flamethrower heavy weapon.  You can charge into a boss character and fry them in seconds.  It will melt completely through them before they can even act in most cases.

If you do it right you can chain charges and take out enemies with frightening speed.  When you charge correct all the enemies die, incredibly fast.  When you charge wrong you die.

You also have both anti-shield and anti-armor ammos.  If you try and always rush in with charge, you will die.  If you charge intelligently you destroy the enemy.

Shockwave doesn't bad damage vs shields either.  Spam shockwave/pull and use your heavy pistol while you look for your opportunity.  Then swap to shotgun and wipe the enemy out.  Remember these biotic skills have short cooldowns, you can toss a pull every 3 and a shockwave every 6.  Abusing their short cooldowns is a big part of your long game.

Its just different than ME1 were you were pretty much invincible.

[Lawliet89]

I played the Vanguard at first and I kept dying. So I rerolled a sentinel.



I realized that ME1 is really different from ME2 in that you cannot just run in there and gun down everyone with your shields still holding. More tactical gameplay is required.



Thanks for all the tips, I will be trying out the Vanguard in another playthrough.

[rines]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Is there really only a 15 shot limit in regards to ammo? My sniper has 10 and is probably more effective.

I just got an upgrade to double the ammo.

[OTGWraith]

wrexisawesome wrote...

Vanguards just need to rank their charge to lvl 4 asap. Its crazy fun after that.

I think alot of people here thought they would be able to just charge around mindlessly. But its an awesome class that becomes incredibly fun and exciting

Actually I didn't want to charge at all, and I do have level 4. It is a dumb combat mechanic, and doesn't fit with the old Vanguard class at all. They need to make that clear when you import the classes.

I think some dev saw "Vanguard" and thought I know!...

[Sidney]

Agree charge is basically a death warrant if there are enough baddies. If there aren't that many guys, I don't need to use special powers to polish them off. Shockwave isn't setting my world on fire either though.



I'm also guessing that once again assault rifle is the king kong of weapons because the shotgun has zero range, the SMG can't do any damage, there's not enough heavy weapon ammo and the pistol is, well, a pistol.

[Massadonious1]

Yeah, I'm definetly finding charge incredibly situational as well, though it's an insanely fun ability to use when the situation is right.



I find myself using Grunt and Tali more often than not and offer him and Tali's combat drone to be my meatshields when I go charging all over the place.

[whitemoon6]

i agree vanguard SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS........................................................................... at first, but once you lvl your vanguard he owns the battlefield.

BUT when it comes to the heavy mech, you'll always be his BeeOTCH.
i sent waves after waves of men at the killbots........ none survived, VICTORY.  Zap Branigan Commander.{futurerama}

Modifié par whitemoon6, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:01 .

[whitemoon6]

i agree vanguard SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS........................................................................... at first, but once you lvl your vanguard he owns the battlefield.



BUT when it comes to the heavy mech, you'll always be his BeeOTCH.

i sent waves after waves of men at the killbots........ none survived, VICTORY. Zap Branigan Commander.{futurerama}

[MGIII]

If by situational, you mean all the time. The enemy AI isn't good enough to compensate fast enough. Your shotgun should be absolutely lethal at that range. I'm talking two, three shot at the most. And you'll make them stumble with a direct hit, so you can finish 'em off before they even know what happened.

Charge is great. Shockwave is pretty good; does decent damage and the knock back is invaluable.

Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:09 .

[Neoskeptic]

I've been playing a vanguard on normal (no, I will not up my difficulty just to see what you're talking about. Obviously higher difficulties make things harder to survive.) and I think the charge ability is pretty good. It's just that the game throws a heck of a lot more people this time. In ME1 you'd put up barrier before running in, charge puts the two together AND gets you in their face faster. It also puts you in perfect range to really unload with your shotgun.



Again like some others here have said, charging into the middle of 3-4 enemies is stupid by any measure, charging into their flank with cover isn't. You can always use freeze ammo to get more time to unload damage.



I miss the carnage ability of the shotgun. Krogans still have it though. Is it learnable?

[Massadonious1]

By "situational" I mean "not charging into 4 dudes with flamethrowers"

[MGIII]

Massadonious1 wrote...

By "situational" I mean "not charging into 4 dudes with flamethrowers"

Obviously not. Especially on the higher difficulties.

Modifié par MGIII, 28 janvier 2010 - 08:34 .

[Medet]

Charge is a really damn cool skill, I guess I just miss alot of the ME1 gameplay mechanics. If I had the Charge skill on my ME1 vanguard that would have been quite a bit of fun. Charge into a whole group of enemies and gun them down. Just imagining it is great but also somewhat depressing to know what could have been but isn't.



As is, well, still pretty cool but you can't do anything really awe inspiring with it. As mentioned, if you charge into a significant group of enemies in ME2 you just died.

[MGIII]

Medet wrote...

Charge is a really damn cool skill, I guess I just miss alot of the ME1 gameplay mechanics. If I had the Charge skill on my ME1 vanguard that would have been quite a bit of fun. Charge into a whole group of enemies and gun them down. Just imagining it is great but also somewhat depressing to know what could have been but isn't.

As is, well, still pretty cool but you can't do anything really awe inspiring with it. As mentioned, if you charge into a significant group of enemies in ME2 you just died.

Uh...duh? Gone are the days when you can take down entire squads in a couple seconds. Tactical application is needed...or luck.

With Charge, you can pick off distant enemies fairly quick. Just pick an enemy you know you can take down fast (Vanguards can take everything normal down fast with their shotgun) with options to attack his cohorts or get into some cover.

[Ifandbut01]

OTGWraith wrote...

wrexisawesome wrote...

Vanguards just need to rank their charge to lvl 4 asap. Its crazy fun after that.

I think alot of people here thought they would be able to just charge around mindlessly. But its an awesome class that becomes incredibly fun and exciting

Actually I didn't want to charge at all, and I do have level 4. It is a dumb combat mechanic, and doesn't fit with the old Vanguard class at all. They need to make that clear when you import the classes.

I think some dev saw "Vanguard" and thought I know!...

There is the option to respec your points. It cost 3000 Eezo. I'm not sure when you get it but I was well on Disk 2 before I realized I had the option.

[Ifandbut01]

Yojimboo wrote...
Oh and don't charge in more then 3 people, anything else is plain suicide, best way to confirm the number of enemy's is your minimap.

What minimap?

[Inarai]

Ifandbut01 wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...
Oh and don't charge in more then 3 people, anything else is plain suicide, best way to confirm the number of enemy's is your minimap.

What minimap?

Hit the tactical pause button, shift on the PC.  You should see it in the bottom right corner.

And on the Vanguard note:  Staggers.  Use them.  IE:  Select the weapon you will use.  Tactical pause.  Note the location of the target of Charge, and nearby cover and enemies.  Mentally mark a retreat point, where you will be covered from all enemies.  The target of charge is En1, the nearest enemy to him is En2, and the next closest enemy
who will be a threat from that position is En3.

1: Charge En1.  This knocks him down, taking him out of commission for a moment.
2: Punch En2.  The staggers him, taking him out of commission for a moment.
3: Shoot En3.  This staggers him, too.
4: Dive to that retreat point.  You can wait for Charge to come back, or instead use Shockwave.

If the enemies are using sheild or armour, you do have tools to deal with these.  Give weapon descriptions a look sometime, and the Inc. Ammo description too.  ((Note:  Cryo ammo is great for holding unsheilded enemies up.))

Modifié par Inarai, 28 janvier 2010 - 10:10 .

[Riot Inducer]

Inarai wrote...

And on the Vanguard note:  Staggers.  Use them.  IE:  Select the weapon you will use.  Tactical pause.  Note the location of the target of Charge, and nearby cover and enemies.  Mentally mark a retreat point, where you will be covered from all enemies.  The target of charge is En1, the nearest enemy to him is En2, and the next closest enemy
who will be a threat from that position is En3.

1: Charge En1.  This knocks him down, taking him out of commission for a moment.
2: Punch En2.  The staggers him, taking him out of commission for a moment.
3: Shoot En3.  This staggers him, too.
4: Dive to that retreat point.  You can wait for Charge to come back, or instead use Shockwave.

If the enemies are using sheild or armour, you do have tools to deal with these.  Give weapon descriptions a look sometime, and the Inc. Ammo description too.  ((Note:  Cryo ammo is great for holding unsheilded enemies up.))

This man knows how to use the Vanguard! 

Also I've found that Garrus is a Vanguard's best friend, set him up with the sniper at the edge of the field while you move up through cover with your pistol or smg. If they've got shields that are giving you trouble have Garrus hit them with overload or if you need an additional knockdown have Garrus pop a concussion shot into 'em. 

Also for those on the 360, I know this is slightly cheap and abusing the system but I've found that when making a charge into a group of enemies you can  very effectively strike all of them in a very shot amount of time by bringing up one of the wheel menus after each strike, this allows you to move your cursor to the next target without giving them a chance to flee, very very useful if you ever get flanked in the middle of a charge or run into a few more foes than you bargained for. But hey I consider it a means of compensating for the slower turning ability that comes with the controller. 

On a random note, whoever said the SMG sucks must not have gotten the Tempest yet, that thing has reduced my pistol to little more than cameos in conversation scenes. 

[Murmillos]

Problem with current ME2 Vanguard is that it is too squishy. Even staring Vangards in ME1 were power houses. The lack of barrier or a really good strong defensive shield is what is causing most difficulties for starting ME2 Vanguards - meaning we have to go for Charge 4 almost right away to get the time dialation bonus.



And on the harder difficulties, you can't use pull on shielded/barrier enemies, meaning our ability to CC is limited. You can't lift one or a few, take a few out, then deal with the ones comming out of pull.

[Senk99]

One misconception was mentioned several times, please let me correct it.

Charge does! work on shielded enemies. Jump on the nasty Biotic, use your SMG in the face and they are dead.

IF before charge you send in the Krogan, and the nmy starts to concentrate on them, when you jump in their midst you will smell their fear in close range.

[Coughee Brotha]

 Im having  blast with my vanguard.  the only times I died was when I charged and didnt know a enemy was there.  but since I started on level 5 I maxed my charge( heavy charge) and assault mastery to destroyer and its been smooth sailing.  I havent even got barrier yet but I did get the Assault rifle.  all weapons work well up close.  the time delay is still good when a enemy has his armor up, if you heavy pistol is upgraded, ad move back into cover  while firing.  you cant blindly use charge.  with that said I use charge 2-4 times in a battle.  I really dont know how powerful a charge is because sometimes its a kill and other times life drops a little bit.  Im still practicing pull.  it doesnt always go or curve where i want it.

[grumpymooselion]

Kahmun wrote...

I played through ME1 as a Vanguard, and loved every second of it.  Losing a couple of weapon classes and heavy armor in exchange for biotic powers was a great tradeoff; Lift gave me very effective form of crowd control, while Barrier and Warp made me a killing machine.

I started ME2 as a Vanguard hoping for a similar experience, however, I've found this "new" Vanguard rather lacking.  Maybe I'm not far enough in the game (or perhaps I'm just bad) but I've found the new Charge ability to be little more than a flashy way to kill myself, unless I use it on an enemy who's either alone or only has one ally nearby.

I've had a very different experience. Your full fledged Charge (and I leveled it all the way up as soon as possible) will actually restore shields for a short amount of time, and slow time (if you took that option). Once your recharge rates come in line, and you upgrade a little, I found going in close with the shotgun and Charging every time Charge was off cooldown would manage to keep my shields up in the thick of it.

That said . . . Charge can work, but it's not great.

More than that, the Adept and all Biotic classes suffer from losing various Biotic abilities. The Adept lost Stasis and the Bastion upgrade to Stasis that allowed you to kill things in Stasis (for instance). We have a much narrower range of base powers this time around.

The Adept and the Vanguard both suffer horribly from powers being taken away. As an Adept player I even found Singularity far less effective in ME2 than in ME1 - I don't know whether it's bugs or not but things seem to escape being effected by Singularity far too often (if you remember in ME1 your Adept was able to "Pierce" biotic protections . . . this doesn't seem true in ME2). My Adept used to rely on Barrier a whole lot, and it's not there anymore.

To make matters worse, using one power puts them all on cooldown. As a Vangaurd and as an Adept, this is exceedingly limiting. Especially considering this wasn't the case in ME1.

The new armor system ensures I take just as much damage as a sniper or an adept, even though by definition I have to be up close to be truly effective.  I no longer have Barrier or the shield recharge ability (can't remember the name off the top of my head) to compliment my armor and shields.  These factors, combined with the fact that I'm limited to carrying 15 shotgun shells total, mean that for the most part combat involves me hiding behind cover across the room and sniping with my pistol.

I agree. Especially about the Shotgun's ammo limitations.

Is anyone else having a similar experience?  I'm only about four hours into the game, mayble it evens out later...but right now I feel like the combat system would be much more rewarding for a long-range class like the Infiltrator.

I feel like the Adept and Vanguard can be viable, but I also feel like they are seriously lacking in several areas that I've (or you) already desbribed.

Modifié par Janan Pacha, 28 janvier 2010 - 02:30 .

[Kronner]

I beat the game on Hardcore as a Vanguard - except for few battles I had no problems.



just max out:

heavy charge

inferno ammo

champion



Upgrade your Shotgun to the limit (+50% damage, double ammo, extra damage against shields/etc)



It totally rocks!