179 réponses à ce sujet

[bensmith91]

Yeah...at first I realized my difficulty was on veteran (I thought I had set it to normal) so it was pleasant when I could turn it down to make it a bit more survivable. I have had some issues with charge too, if there are more than 2 baddies, I usually end up dead. I'm chalking it up to just starting so my abilities aren't so hot yet, but chargeshootshootshoot storm away is a pretty pathetic fighting style

[Coughee Brotha]

Yea unfortunately Vanguard doesnt start out strong but through leveling and upgades you become a monster. my scimitar shotgun holds 30 shells.. upgrades are very realiable

[CoolbeansMcGee]

So the single target, time slowing Charge is better than the AoE one? I'm guessing?

[Ifandbut01]

My view of Vanguard has changed recently. After using some of the strategies in this post I started having alot more fun. I also just maxed charge with heavy charge and got the advanced weapon training and chose the Krogan's shotgun. That gun is a beast. It only has a 1 round clip (total of 11 rounds for me right now) but I can charge and one shot most things at ~50% armor....I'm almost scared of what I'll be able to do when I get the shotgun fully upgraded. With the added time slowdown I can get 2 rounds off with that shotgun before I return to normal speed.

[WarlockSoL]

I didn't like it at first, but as I level up I'm finding it to be better. I think getting some of the armor upgrades researched helps too.

I like Charge now that I have it maxed out, but I still wish I had a bit more range on it. It seems kind of flakey whether or not it will actually work though (I've noticed it will absolutely not work if there are certain obstructions near the enemy or they are facing a certain way - basically I think it can't find a place to put you). And it's difficult to tell if you are close enough (with enough trial and error eventually you can sort of eyeball it, but it would be nice if there was an easier way to tell).

I still do think the class should have started out with Barrier though. It's an extremely fragile class (which it was in the first game, but you had ways to compensate then) and honestly I could have lived without Pull.

P.S. - And yes, melee ftw.

Modifié par WarlockSoL, 28 janvier 2010 - 03:20 .

[bensmith91]

I'm only 2/4 charge currently as I have just been playing only a little bit...when I get to 4/4, which upgrade is more useful for play?

[Br0th3rGr1mm]

If you are using Charge to take out the first enemy in a group of 5 you are definately using it wrong (unless you are familiar with the area and have a good cover plan or have your Charge evolved already). Vanguard has definately changed from ME1 and takes some tactic and skill to play well (in ME1 you could rush into battle and be a tank like killing machine without much thought).

Unfortunately, early in the game CHARGE should be used as either a finishing move or an emergency escape plan,  That' is kind of a let down to those that are looking forward to playing the same class in the same way.

Modifié par Br0th3rGr1mm, 28 janvier 2010 - 03:39 .

[Sidney]

Br0th3rGr1mm wrote...
Unfortunately, early in the game CHARGE should be used as either a finishing move or an emergency escape plan,  That' is kind of a let down to those that are looking forward to playing the same class in the same way.

Translation it isn't all that useful. If you are using it on the last guy left standing then you don't really need it.

I think the really poor effects and ammo of the shotgun are also hurting this class. I really don't get much bang for my buck out of that gun and flip to Pistol or SMG most of the time.

[pharaun159]

I HATED the vanguard at first.   I loved the vanguard in me1.  But I thought it sucked in me2.  I switched to a sentinal and beat the ****** out of insanity.  Then I started experimenting with other classes again including the vanguard.  Beleive me knowing how to play makes a huge difference.  Yes charge is not very usefull at low lvls, but by the time you throw disc 2 in you should be a man'o'war.  I honestly charge into most every fray, and a headshot at close range followed by a timely melee/ reload will take down most anything.  I even chose reave as my bonus ability.  don't bother with pull or shockwave.  Reave willl do double damage to armor and barriers, and shotgun upgrades give up to 50% shield damage bonus, you should be able to take down most anything in 2 shots,  especially if you've ripped their defenses away.  And obviously max ur amo powers.

[FFTARoxorz05]

Vanguard was fine for me, just don't charge a krogan. I usually only used it to finish people off (possibly with a shotgun shot and.or melee needed) but it can be cute depending on the mission.

[trucoolbrees]

Well this thread was created when the game first came out, and since then most people have learned the correct way to play vangaurd effectively. Vangaurd is now easily the most popular class.

[cruc1al]

FFTARoxorz05 wrote...

Vanguard was fine for me, just don't charge a krogan.

No, always charge a charging krogan ;D

"RRRaaaaarrgh!!"
"I'll show Rrraargh to you..."

[Nexolek]

cruc1al wrote...

FFTARoxorz05 wrote...

Vanguard was fine for me, just don't charge a krogan.

No, always charge a charging krogan ;D

"RRRaaaaarrgh!!"
"I'll show Rrraargh to you..."

Yes! Grunt and I charge a lot of Krogan in this. Grunt does it with more style though... 

[Simbacca]

I'm playing my first ME2 playthrough as a Vanguard on Insanity and I'm loving it.  Reaeding thisisme's and sabresandiego's threads before starting helped a lot.  Of course it was still quite the steep learning curve early on, but now that I have almost all the upgrades I just steamroll everything. 

Modifié par Simbacca, 29 avril 2010 - 04:49 .

[HTTP 404]

I agree with Simbacca, I read few posts on how to play vangaurd in ME2 and it has been a really satisfying, adrenaline pumping class to play. I thought the claymore was lame with one shot, but it turns out to be pretty damn powerful in the enemy's face. Also the biggest defense, is more offense with the vangaurd, having your shields recharged every time you charge with a higher CD can make you feel pretty destructive and a little invincible at times.

[JaegerBane]

Kahmun wrote...

I played through ME1 as a Vanguard, and loved every second of it.  Losing a couple of weapon classes and heavy armor in exchange for biotic powers was a great tradeoff; Lift gave me very effective form of crowd control, while Barrier and Warp made me a killing machine.

I started ME2 as a Vanguard hoping for a similar experience, however, I've found this "new" Vanguard rather lacking.  Maybe I'm not far enough in the game (or perhaps I'm just bad) but I've found the new Charge ability to be little more than a flashy way to kill myself, unless I use it on an enemy who's either alone or only has one ally nearby.  The new armor system ensures I take just as much damage as a sniper or an adept, even though by definition I have to be up close to be truly effective.  I no longer have Barrier or the shield recharge ability (can't remember the name off the top of my head) to compliment my armor and shields.  These factors, combined with the fact that I'm limited to carrying 15 shotgun shells total, mean that for the most part combat involves me hiding behind cover across the room and sniping with my pistol.

Is anyone else having a similar experience?  I'm only about four hours into the game, mayble it evens out later...but right now I feel like the combat system would be much more rewarding for a long-range class like the Infiltrator.

I thinking the big problem Vanguards have is that the concept is far, far better than the execution. To a certain extent, Charge is so cool that it makes up for a lot of the crap, but nevertheless the Vanguard's skillset is pretty appalling.

Cryo ammo on a Vanguard was just a stupid idea full stop. Quite what a hyper mobile biotic warrior needs with an ammo type that does no extra damage but give him a rubbish crowd control ability to complement his much better Pull and Shockwave crowd controllers is not clear. After 10 points it sees some use, but you shouldn't need to drop a whole 10 points into a power before it actually starts pulling it's weight.

Why precisely the Vanguard is specifically given biotics that don't interact with each other all that well isn't clear either.

I'm currently playing a heavily modded Vanguard who exchanges Cryo ammo for Warp Ammo, and packs both Reave and Energy Drain as bonus powers.... and my god, it's such a shame that you need to cheat to get a character like this. It's like playing a biotic version of the soldier.... which, IIRC, is what the Vanguard is supposed to be in the first place.

While I'm a huge fan of Shockwave, I personally think it might have been a better idea to replace it with Throw, and replace the useless Cryo ammo with Disruptor Ammo. That way you'd have an actual biotic with ammos to help against defended opponents. The stock Vanguard as it stands now is just an ill-built mishmash that still manages to be brilliant thanks to the awesomeness of it's signature power.

[tonnactus]

FFTARoxorz05 wrote...

Vanguard was fine for me, just don't charge a krogan.

Krogans are no threats anymore, even bosses with barriers or shields.

[tonnactus]

JaegerBane wrote...

Cryo ammo on a Vanguard was just a stupid idea full stop. Quite what a hyper mobile biotic warrior needs with an ammo type that does no extra damage

Frozen enemies take double damage from weapons...

[cruc1al]

JaegerBane wrote...
*snip*

Cryo isn't useless. 1) squad cryo is awesome for a vanguard deep in enemy territory, 2) 1 point in cryo + heavy pistol = dead husk. 3) you can charge a frozen enemy to smash it to pieces.

Pull works well with squad abilities like throw and warp. You're supposed to use your squad too. But: pull works also with charge - it's like pull+throw where YOU are the projectile. And you can use pull to get people to float across your cover so you can safely shotgun them without exposing yourself.

Shockwave, on the other hand, is a sh*t ability.

Modifié par cruc1al, 29 avril 2010 - 08:47 .

[tonnactus]

cruc1al wrote...

Shockwave, on the other hand, is a sh*t ability.

Shockwave has a radius from the start.All other biotic abilites need 10 points for that.I like it more then throw and it is better then throw.The only disadvantage is the the long cooldown compared with other abilities.

Modifié par tonnactus, 29 avril 2010 - 09:02 .

[JaegerBane]

cruc1al wrote...
Cryo isn't useless. 1) squad cryo is awesome for a vanguard deep in enemy territory, 2) 1 point in cryo + heavy pistol = dead husk. 3) you can charge a frozen enemy to smash it to pieces.

As I said, it sees use once you've spent 10 points in it. Up until then it's a waste of space. The fact you have to drop 10 points in it before it actually becomes useful is a pretty clear illustration of how crap it is.

And yes, I'm aware you can charge a frozen enemy. So what? If you charge any enemy that could have been frozen they'll go flying anyway, odds are they won't be a problem anymore at that point, frozen or not. It's a pretty graphical effect, nothing more.

Pull works well with squad abilities like throw and warp. You're supposed to use your squad too. But: pull works also with charge - it's like pull+throw where YOU are the projectile. And you can use pull to get people to float across your cover so you can safely shotgun them without exposing yourself.

As I said, Charge makes up for a lot of the deficiencies of the class. I just find it odd that you're given powers that specifically don't work as well together as others would.

Shockwave, on the other hand, is a sh*t ability.

I'm sure there's some sensible reasoning as to why a power that ignores cover and can single handedly annihilate swarms can realistically be considered 'sh*t', but it isn't a discussion for this thread.

[tonnactus]

JaegerBane wrote...


And yes, I'm aware you can charge a frozen enemy.

Frozen enemies take double damage from your weapons.You complained that cyro doesnt increase the damage that a vanguard did,this was wrong.

[JaegerBane]

tonnactus wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Cryo ammo on a Vanguard was just a stupid idea full stop. Quite what a hyper mobile biotic warrior needs with an ammo type that does no extra damage

Frozen enemies take double damage from weapons...

That's just great. By the time they're frozen any of the of useful ammo powers would have ended them already. Cryo has no bonuses whatsoever against any kind of defence in the game. One they're at the health stage the double damage means d1ck, as once they're at just health the full range of Biotics come into play. Cryo is superfluous, and on a class that has more crowd control than it knows what to do with but bugger all anti-shield abilities, it becomes misplaced.

[JaegerBane]

tonnactus wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...


And yes, I'm aware you can charge a frozen enemy.

Frozen enemies take double damage from your weapons.You complained that cyro doesnt increase the damage that a vanguard did,this was wrong.

Tonnactus, until they're actually frozen, there is no damage increase. They only freeze once the defences are down, which is the same stage where biotics do it better. Every other ammo power in the game actually does damage to defences barring Shredder (which is crud). Comprende?

[Samurai_Wahoo]

Personally, I found Cryo Ammo (Squad) to be very useful for my playstyle.  Then there is NG+ where Cryo Ammo is insanely helpful.

The reason I find it so useful is when I used a squad member to strip a defense, it only took a few rounds to get the enemy out of the fight for 5+ secs.  Then, I could move on to a more dangerous foe.  It is easier to peek and fire when only 2  or 3 baddies are firing on you.  There is also the global cooldown.  I can not cast an ability to finish off the bad guys due to the global CD.  Cryo is always active and I can use their abilities, once they cooled down,  to do work on another enemy.  No real sense in using a power to finish off an enemy when they are good as dead.  Use the squads abilities on someone that still has their defenses up.

The place I found the Cryo Ammo most useful is the Suicide Run.  On Insanity, if you kill Harby, he pops back up and takes control of another Collector.  The Squad does a great job dispatching frozen enemies, since they only peek to fire a burst which is usually enough to kill a downed foe.  Plus, they do a great job to keep the enemy out of the fight where I can focus on a bigger bad.  While still using their powers on Harby I can let the squad keep the enemies out of the fight.

I am not trying to convince anyone that Cryo is great.  I just put out there why I found it to be great for my build + playstyle. 

My build:
Incendiary Ammo: 10/Inferno
Cryo Ammo:  10/Squad
Pull: 0
Shockwave:  1
Champion:  10
Charge:  10/Area
Barrier:  10/Heavy
Weapons:  Locust/Tempest (not sure which I like), Scimitar, Viper
 

Modifié par Samurai_Wahoo, 29 avril 2010 - 10:38 .