348 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

UNless Dragon Age introduces Powder Mages I don't see how it would amplify anything.  

 

We already know they can badass-ify swords? Enhance weapons with elemental magic? Telekinesis? What can magic not amplify? 

[Hazegurl]

UNless Dragon Age introduces Powder Mages I don't see how it would amplify anything.  

 

"Among the ancient elves, there were mages who trained their magical arts to augment their martial prowess. They channeled magical power through their weapons and bodies, becoming terrors on the battlefield. Most consider these skills lost forever, but they may still linger in forgotten corners of the world. Arcane warriors may learn to use their magic score to satisfy the strength requirement to equip higher-level weapons and armor." Arcane Warrior

 

Because Mages can channel their power through objects, I don't see how gun powder would be any different, and even if it is, lyrium is used as an explosive as well.

[Carmen_Willow]

If you look at the course of history, the people or the society with the best technology wins, and subjugates those without it.  Few mean for it to happen, but it does, over and over again. In Thedas, being a mage is like having a laser rifle in your head while most others only have bows and arrows.  The Chantry didn't allow mages to learn martial arts because that would be like handing the guy with the laser gun in his head a nice set of bows and arrows as well. Allowing mages political power puts the guy with the natural laser gun in his head in a position to vote himself the right to bows and arrows, and finally, ALL the bows and arrows.

 

Look at the elves and their wonderful empire. What happened? The powerful mages took all the bows and arrows. Tevinter? Same thing.

There have to be limits or history in Thedas will repeat itself. And even so, I will add that it is immoral and unfair to hold all mages prisoner simply because some will go crazy or criminal. Is there a nice, clean, perfect solution? No.

[Iakus]

We already know they can badass-ify swords? Enhance weapons with elemental magic? Telekinesis? What can magic not amplify? 

And lyrium runes (which mages cannot create, it takes a dwarf or a Tranquil ) can augment weapons and armor as well.

 

 

 

 

Because Mages can channel their power through objects, I don't see how gun powder would be any different, and even if it is, lyrium is used as an explosive as well.

lyrium explosives are less stable than Qunari gunpowder.

[Il Divo]

UNless Dragon Age introduces Powder Mages I don't see how it would amplify anything.  

 

How is the trilogy out of curiosity? I've had a few people tell me to pick it up.

[Hazegurl]

 

lyrium explosives are less stable than Qunari gunpowder.

What makes you think they can't channel through Qunari gunpowder?  Or just channel their energy through a gun?

[Il Divo]

And lyrium runes (which mages cannot create, it takes a dwarf or a Tranquil ) can augment weapons and armor as well.

 

 

True, but at the same time, that doesn't prevent a Mage from accessing or benefiting from enhanced weapons/armor, provided they can get it from another source. That dwarf who made the enhancement however can't simply start slinging spells around no matter how hard he tries.

[Iakus]

How is the trilogy out of curiosity? I've had a few people tell me to pick it up.

Only read the first book so far.  But it's pretty good

 

True, but at the same time, that doesn't prevent a Mage from accessing or benefiting from enhanced weapons/armor, provided they can get it from another source. That dwarf who made the enhancement however can't simply start slinging spells around no matter how hard he tries.

True.  But anyone can obtain enchantments for equipment.  But if weapons or equipment can be obtained that levels the playing field between mage and nonmage, then the mage's ability to further enhance the item via magic is greatly reduced if not outright nullified by the availability of said enchantments.

 

Put another way, a dwarf can't sling spells.  But a dwarf with, for example, a gun and a suit of magic-nullifying armor would be at a much more level playing field against a mage.  The fact that the mage can augment his weapons with magic could be countered by the dwarf further augmenting his equipment with runes.

[Medhia_Nox]

Come to mention it - I think it would have actually been more interesting if mages couldn't use runes.  Retcon away Bioware!

 

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As for mages - anyone who thinks they are superior is predisposed to want to govern those they believe inferior.  You see this with religion all the time.  You see this with science during the Age of Enlightenment and the war against the tribal man (as Carmen_Willow already illustrated).  You see this with the wealthy. 

 

Add to that the fact that mages hear the voices of alien invaders from another dimension.  Actively draw the attention of said invaders, and are skin suits for said invasion. 

 

I understand why Southern Thedas balks at the idea of mage rulers.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Put another way, a dwarf can't sling spells.  But a dwarf with, for example, a gun and a suit of magic-nullifying armor would be at a much more level playing field against a mage.  The fact that the mage can augment his weapons with magic could be countered by the dwarf further augmenting his equipment with runes.

What's to prevent the mage from further augment his equipment with magic and runes?

[Hellion Rex]

Mages, to me at least, have just as much capacity to be a worthy leader or ruler as any who are not born with magic. However, my problem is that if a leader turns corrupt, a mage can cause a multitude of other issues and have a lot more potential weapons at their disposal than a non mage.

[Hazegurl]

What's to prevent the mage from further augment his equipment with magic and runes?

Then you throw in blood magic and the dwarf loses his magic nullifying armor effect.  Then when he runs out of bullets the Mage can either use their own gun and/or blast him with fireballs and a host of other spells, and then heal themselves from any damage the dwarf cause.

 

Edit: Also, a Knight Enchanter can summon a blade for battle.  What would stop a mage from summoning bullets, arrows for a repeating crossbow et al once they get a handle on how they work.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Then you throw in blood magic and the dwarf loses his magic nullifying armor effect.  Then when he runs out of bullets the Mage can either use their own gun and/or blast him with fireballs and a host of other spells, and then heal themselves from any damage the dwarf cause.

Blood Magic doesn't exactly nullify the effect of magic resistance entirely, but yeah it does hit a lot harder (based on how Evangeline describes Blood Magic). Mages just got that one additional weapon in their arsenal, that no one else can ever have.

[fhs33721]

I'm still of the opinion that the most f*cked up ruling system in all of Thedas is the one of the dwarves and they don't have any mages at all (Which somehow doesn't prevent them from producing seriously evil magical stuff like the Anvil of the Void.).

I mean seriously their backwards and restrictive caste system sucks big time and is actually making their continious effort for survival against the darkspawn harder than necessary. Their politics are a snake-pit that rivals Orlais' Game, just without any of the fancyness.

Only born nobles have any say in anything and it's downright impossible to change your caste. Except if you invent some new form of coal that doesn't produce much smoke, then you suddenly ascend to the level of what amouts to a living God and are allowed to lead an entire house, even though inventing something is no indication of leadership skills, as Branka effectively proved.

Oh and let's not forget that even Tevinter at least values slaves as (maybe expendable) but valuable property, while most Dwarves consider the castless to be less worth than actual dirt. It's very telling that in Golems of Ammgarrak it was the dwarf who first suggested to kill a bunch of casteless and use their corpses as golem-material because "hey it's just castless and they aren't worth anything anyways an would be better off dead".  I mean even the Tevinter magister present was appalled by that at first.

 

So yeah I'd say that any magocracy can't be much worse than this.

[fhs33721]

If you look at the course of history, the people or the society with the best technology wins, and subjugates those without it. 

Better tell that to the (western) Roman Empire because I don't think they realize they should have won over the comparatively primitve tribes that eventually destroyed their realm.

[sandalisthemaker]

Yes, let's just completely ignore the whole demonic possession risk, thing.

 

BioWare seems to be moving away from it, too, so why not? Right?

[Medhia_Nox]

@fjs33721:  Why the Western Roman empire fell had nothing to do with it's technological levels (rather - with the advancement of the Roman empire during its ascension to power) and more to do with the failing of its political structure and a collapse from within.  

 

The barbarians were scavengers attacking an already dying animal. 

 

It was precisely because their technological (and socially advanced) edge was failing that they fell. 

[Il Divo]

What's to prevent the mage from further augment his equipment with magic and runes?

 

That's essentially what I was thinking. No matter how the scenario is sliced, the Mage wins out in terms of sheer power and versatility. ​

[Bleachrude]

Mages, to me at least, have just as much capacity to be a worthy leader or ruler as any who are not born with magic. However, my problem is that if a leader turns corrupt, a mage can cause a multitude of other issues and have a lot more potential weapons at their disposal than a non mage.

 

A corrupt leader, especially in Ferelden, NEEDS the support of like minded individuals. Said leader's power is only as strong as his hold is over his supporters. A mage leader, unless every other leader is also a mage, has less need of followers. 

[Vit246]

Yes, let's just completely ignore the whole demonic possession risk, thing.

 

BioWare seems to be moving away from it, too, so why not? Right?

 

If demonic possession was ever such a problem, then mages should never have been able to form and maintain the Tevinter Imperium in the first place.

[sandalisthemaker]

If demonic possession was ever such a problem, then mages should never have been able to form and maintain the Tevinter Imperium in the first place.

 

Just because it isn't common doesn't mean it should not be a major source of concern in-universe. 

[MisterJB]

If demonic possession was ever such a problem, then mages should never have been able to form and maintain the Tevinter Imperium in the first place.

Define "problem". Would, say, 10000 people killed a year by Abominations not merit a way of preventing these accidents from happening? Or is that only when they are about to turn Thedas into a lawless wasteland?

Just because societies can exist despite Abominations, that does not mean we should ignore the fact that they occur and are caused by mages.

 

[Xilizhra]

Define "problem". Would, say, 10000 people killed a year by Abominations not merit a way of preventing these accidents from happening? Or is that only when they are about to turn Thedas into a lawless wasteland?

Just because societies can exist despite Abominations, that does not mean we should ignore the fact that they occur and are caused by mages.

Answering this question would, of course, require us to have abomination death rates from both societies with and without the Circles. Sadly, we don't have this, though it might be worth pointing out that the only time in the games an abomination appeared in a society without the Circle, the mage extremely deliberately allowed the demon to possess her (Marethari). We've also never seen or, to my knowledge, heard of abominations in Tevinter, much less the casualty counts from this phenomenon.

[lil yonce]

Magocracy may not be worse than any other class-based rulership, but I'd rather not see southern mages get caught up in making that argument now. Its bad politics (bad policy too) and they will lose. They should keep fighting entrenched, unaccountable power- not debate its merits if mage-run. And as purely a forum hypothetical, I don't think it can be determined magocracy is no better or no worse than any other class system. Too many variables and consequences to measure to say IMO.

[sandalisthemaker]

We've also never seen or, to my knowledge, heard of abominations in Tevinter, much less the casualty counts from this phenomenon.

 

Codex entry in WoT.

 

http://dragonage.wik...ble_Blood_Magic

 

A magister mentions another magister who bursts into an abomination while using blood magic.