26 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

He has that that scene at Skyhold where you drink with him, but that makes me think that killing one too early will affect that scene. Specifically, not getting that scene at all. I want to kill the Frostback early for some extra leveling before IYHSB.

So does anything screw up by doing that? Or will the scene simply be his first conversation at the tavern?

[capn233]

I don't think so.  I killed the Frostback before Skyhold on this run and got the drinking conversation with Bull the second time I talked to him in Skyhold (right after the one where he takes you to visit with some inquisition troops).

[andy6915]

I don't think so.  I killed the Frostback before Skyhold on this run and got the drinking conversation with Bull the second time I talked to him in Skyhold (right after the one where he takes you to visit with some inquisition troops).

 

Good. Now I just need to figure out how the hell to kill that thing at level 11...

[Lord Frivolous]

Good. Now I just need to figure out how the hell to kill that thing at level 11...

 

Last run I did I killed the dragon on Nightmare solo at level 8, could have done it at level 3 probably as well and is most likely piece of cake with a sneaky archerer. (The hardest part is to get past of the little dragonlings without them getting agitated.)

 

Did it because I wanted to know if it's possible. Frost mage stood at the entry to the dragon lair and blasted away with frost staff. The dragon just jumped up and down and roared, never attacked. The heroic music played until the beast was no more.

 

It's an exploit which uses the abysmal AI the enemies have.

[andy6915]

Last run I did I killed the dragon on Nightmare solo at level 8, could have done it at level 3 probably as well and is most likely piece of cake with a sneaky archerer. (The hardest part is to get past of the little dragonlings without them getting agitated.)

Did it because I wanted to know if it's possible. Frost mage stood at the entry to the dragon lair and blasted away with frost staff. The dragon just jumped up and down and roared, never attacked. The heroic music played until the beast was no more.

It's an exploit which uses the abysmal AI the enemies have.

Ah, same tactic I used to kill the level 23 dragon at level 13... I really wanted good Keeper armor for my Dalish as soon as possible for role playing reasons, and read about an exploit to kill it easily. Still took 40 minutes on CASUAL.

[PapaCharlie9]

Lowest level I ever took on the Frostback was level 8 on Nightmare. It is doable with a full party. I haven't tried solo yet, but I agree that if going -5 or more under level, go Archer.

 

I did it with Mage IQ, Sera, Cass and Solas, and it does require a significant amount of preparation. For example, I did it after completing the KE specialization quest, so that I could have barrier regen and Fade Cloak/upgraded, Sera could have Thousand Cuts, Cass could have Rally, and Solas could have Veilstrike and Stonefist. I think I only had enough Influence for one bar of Focus, though. I spent the other Influence points on extra healing and extra potion slot, for resist tonic.

 

Some other prep:

* Started Templars quest at level 5 (starting it any later and you'll probably be over level 8 by the time you are ready to take on the dragon)

* Picked up the first Frost Rune schematic (easy, since in the Hinterlands), so that Sera and Cass could wield cold weapons

* Acquired and upgrade Fire Resistance Tonic

* Crafted fire resistant gear + FT (gain guard, heal on hit, best you can get)

* Crafted the highest base damage weapons possible at that level

* Respec'd all characters specifically for Frostback fight

 

For example, for Cass, I put 5 skill points into Battlemaster so that she could spam upgraded Horn of Valor. That didn't leave much for other skills. I think the only other active skills she had were Shield Wall and Challenge. All I wanted her to do was soak up aggro and spam Horn of Valor.

 

Overall strategy was to use skills to reduce dragon damage output and defense, increase party damage output and defense, avoid burning damage as much as possible, pay attention to the hurricane attacks (don't let any party member get too far away from the dragon -- no AI Leaping Shot for Sera), and take out dragonling adds as quickly as possible -- all hands on deck. It also helps to know the attack pattern of the Frostback, so when it goes up on a high rock shelf, switch to ranged attacks, etc.

[capn233]

Frost mage stood at the entry to the dragon lair and blasted away with frost staff. The dragon just jumped up and down and roared, never attacked. The heroic music played until the beast was no more.

 

Yes.  When I went to kill the Frostback the other day at 10, I noticed that you could do this.  Party was useless, but basic attacks and Energy Barrage with a frost staff actually does decent damage.  I didn't take it down by more than 25% at range though before I decided I wanted to actually fight her the "right" way and reloaded.

 

Regarding the 'lings in the first area, I found I could get past nearly all of them on horseback hugging the left side of the canyon.  There is one in the back that I would need to kill though.  And if you stay near where the red lyrium is you can also drop a save there.  Too far forward and it apparently triggers the dragon to be waiting on the ground and save isn't allowed.  The biggest issue you can run into trying this isn't really the 'lings, but if you slow on horseback by missing a jump or getting stuck, you will probably get firebombed, and then surrounded by the 'lings.

[andy6915]

Regarding the 'lings in the first area, I found I could get past nearly all of them on horseback hugging the left side of the canyon.  There is one in the back that I would need to kill though.  And if you stay near where the red lyrium is you can also drop a save there.  Too far forward and it apparently triggers the dragon to be waiting on the ground and save isn't allowed.  The biggest issue you can run into trying this isn't really the 'lings, but if you slow on horseback by missing a jump or getting stuck, you will probably get firebombed, and then surrounded by the 'lings.

 

Why bother? Just stealth. You know, I've already trolled the Frostback already. Went there at level 5, by myself. Went there and looted the entire combat area she's in right out from under her nose, from looting the boat to looting the cave that is hidden enough that I doubt most people know of it, to looting all the obsidian metals all over the area. It was scary, I knew a SINGLE HIT from her (regardless of attack) would kill me. The music just made it even more nerve wracking. But damn it, I wanted to loot. Got some good schematics out of it, some level 10-12 equipment I couldn't use yet.

 

Why does that dragon get such unique music anyway?

[Bhryaen]

Regarding the OP, no, I don't think it does affect Bull. I'd killed the dragon about Lvl 8 using a stealthy archer behind an embankment that blocked the fire breath blasts. I did it solo too, so no party member could share tales of the great deed, but this was before I had any companions other than the original 3. But when I got to Skyhold, the 2nd conversation with The Iron Bull was the tavern moment all about how we'd slain the dragon together. I humored him...

[capn233]

Why bother? Just stealth. You know, I've already trolled the Frostback already. Went there at level 5, by myself. Went there and looted the entire combat area she's in right out from under her nose, from looting the boat to looting the cave that is hidden enough that I doubt most people know of it, to looting all the obsidian metals all over the area. It was scary, I knew a SINGLE HIT from her (regardless of attack) would kill me. The music just made it even more nerve wracking. But damn it, I wanted to loot. Got some good schematics out of it, some level 10-12 equipment I couldn't use yet.

 

Why does that dragon get such unique music anyway?

 

I did not stealth because mages don't have stealth.

[andy6915]

Well... I did it. Level 11, hard mode. It took 2 hours, a number of reloads. I had to fight the party AI as much as the damn dragon. Lots of cheapness involved, like using a minor bug where a party member standing on the broken bridge actually revives party members for some reason, and hiding in a way that attacks could hit it without its fireballs being able to hit me, and even got lucky a few times and the dragon became totally stuck for a few minutes (roaring or doing a pain animation would break the stuckness though). The dragonlings were handled through the revival bug I mentioned, Viv and Solas would get up long enough to put up a barrier while my other 2 party members hid on the bridge, and they'd use ice attacks to hurt or kill one before being killed themselves, then they get back up thanks to the bug and repeat the process. Hardest part was of course the last quarter where you're stuck fighting it on the ridge, cheap tricks were hard then. No revive bug and much harder to hide from its fireballs, I thought it was all over a second before it died because only Viv and Solas were left and their AI caused them to leave their safe spot and charge it... And it was about to do its wing beating attack. But Viv took it down at the last millisecond and got knocked out right as it died, and Solas was about to die too but the battle was finished before his health was gone and my character leveling up filled everyone's health back up before he could go down himself.

 

So I won through cheapness and stupidly good luck in the last few seconds.

[PapaCharlie9]

Why bother? Just stealth. You know, I've already trolled the Frostback already. Went there at level 5, by myself. Went there and looted the entire combat area she's in right out from under her nose, from looting the boat to looting the cave that is hidden enough that I doubt most people know of it, to looting all the obsidian metals all over the area. 

Uh ... all dragons have Perceptive, so Stealth is probably not what saved you.

 

You can solo into the combat area on a mount and as long as you hug the right or left edge of the area, the dragon may not aggro, with or without Stealth. But even if the dragon does aggro, if you can make it to the broken bridge area without getting hit by a fireball and jump down in the water, you're safe from mama and her dragonlings, apparently there's no navmesh down there and the angle of the walls protects you from fire attacks. You can then exit from the area by continuing east, beyond where the dwarven smugglers boats are. The no-fast-travel zone boundary ends before the out-of-bounds begins, so there is a spot on the shore where you can fast travel to safety.

[andy6915]

Uh ... all dragons have Perceptive, so Stealth is probably not what saved you.

You can solo into the combat area on a mount and as long as you hug the right or left edge of the area, the dragon may not aggro, with or without Stealth. But even if the dragon does aggro, if you can make it to the broken bridge area without getting hit by a fireball and jump down in the water, you're safe from mama and her dragonlings, apparently there's no navmesh down there and the angle of the walls protects you from fire attacks. You can then exit from the area by continuing east, beyond where the dwarven smugglers boats are. The no-fast-travel zone boundary ends before the out-of-bounds begins, so there is a spot on the shore where you can fast travel to safety.

Uh... I ran right past it (as in less than 5 feet from it) several times without it so much as reacting. It definitely can't see a stealthed character. It only shot 2 fireballs at me, both times were when I was out of stealth.

[PapaCharlie9]

Uh... I ran right past it (as in less than 5 feet from it) several times without it so much as reacting. It definitely can't see a stealthed character.

That doesn't make sense. Maybe it has to aggro first before Perceptive kicks in?

[capn233]

I had to fight the party AI as much as the damn dragon.

 

 

Congrats.  I hear you on the party AI, that is why I did the whole fight in tac cam when I fought it at level 10.  Even so, when it goes on ledges and I would move party to hold near the cliff wall, party members had a tendency to run out several steps to try and gain better LOS, and earn a fireball as a reward.

 

Against the Crestwood dragon, most of the time I just control Cass and don't care if my ranged party dies since she can solo it several levels under (even if it isn't fast).

[PapaCharlie9]

That doesn't make sense. Maybe it has to aggro first before Perceptive kicks in?

Also, what exactly happened in the outer area, the area where there are dragonlings and the mama dragon first takes flight and does some air-to-ground attacks? Were you in stealth through that whole area, or did that go as normal?

 

It's possible that the whole combat sequence gets bugged if you don't trigger aggro in the outer area.

 

And who knows, maybe being so underlevelled bugs the sequence!?

[andy6915]

Also, what exactly happened in the outer area, the area where there are dragonlings and the mama dragon first takes flight and does some air-to-ground attacks? Were you in stealth through that whole area, or did that go as normal?

 

It's possible that the whole combat sequence gets bugged if you don't trigger aggro in the outer area.

 

And who knows, maybe being so underlevelled bugs the sequence!?

 

I stealthed the whole way through the initial area, it never fired a single thing at me for the entire run. Then I got to the area where you fight it and it spotted me since I stealthed too late, and that's when it fired at me. I dodged it then stealthed, then ran right past it without it even turning to watch me or even reacting. Then I popped out of stealth at the bridge, it noticed me and roared but didn't do anything since I was already where it couldn't actually see me. I then used leaping shot to jump over the broken part, looted everything, went back to the other side and stealthed again (it was facing my new location, so I know it turned). I ran right past it again going to the cave area behind it, popped out of stealth too early and immediately had to dodge a fireball for it. Stealthed on the way back well enough that it didn't fire anything at me.

 

I also used stealth a few times during the real fight with it I talked about, and it and the dragonlings were completely affected by the stealth.

[andy6915]

Crappy cell phone video, so try to forgive the quality. Interesting thing, in the first video it does perceive me... Once I get really close. But the second video made right after the first one ended (I stopped recording because I was playing one handed to hold the phone and her suddenly seeing me meant I had to stop recording to not get killed), I literally touch her on the nose without being perceived (although my stealth ends right after because the duration was up, I wasn't perceived). So in one case it saw me when I got within a few feet of it, second one I could actually touch it with no issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: And see for yourself, no "perceived" popup showed when I touched it on the nose but one DID pop up for the first one when it actually did see through the stealth. It really was just unlucky timing.

[Bhryaen]

... looting the cave that is hidden enough that I doubt most people know of it...

 

Wait, what? I just checked the place again to find this cave. Where is this? Or are you referring to the section back around the corner with all the chests as a "cave?"

 

Btw, I can confirm that stealth works perfectly there. Before I killed it I was pretty much farming obsidian regularly by passing by it in stealth.

[andy6915]

Wait, what? I just checked the place again to find this cave. Where is this? Or are you referring to the section back around the corner with all the chests as a "cave?"

 

You know how there's the hill in the back that is eventually lands on for the last quarter of its health, has a landmark on it? Well, the cave is to the left of that from the entrance to the area. As in hug the left wall from the entrance and you'll find it eventually.

[Bhryaen]

You know how there's the hill in the back that is eventually lands on for the last quarter of its health, has a landmark on it? Well, the cave is to the left of that from the entrance to the area. As in hug the left wall from the entrance and you'll find it eventually.

 

You just mean this open spot, right? Just left up the hill, down and it's to the left?

 

[andy6915]

 

You just mean this open spot, right? Just left up the hill, down and it's to the left?

 

 

Yeah, what else would I mean? I didn't say it was a big cave, though it's clear from the skeletons in there that the dragon likely used that area to sleep when it wasn't out sunning.

[Bhryaen]

Yeah, what else would I mean? I didn't say it was a big cave, though it's clear from the skeletons in there that the dragon likely used that area to sleep when it wasn't out sunning.

 

Well, I was hopeful. I like discovering new things, and I was surprised at how that landmark hill was so empty- no treasure, nothing there of note at all, just a landmark location. A little concealed cave would be nifty. People usually don't find that? Plus if you meddle about in the area you can see a ladder up on that eternally-burning scaffolding to the right of the entrance, so I thought there might be something up there, but I can't get there. It's my first DAI playthrough, so I'm still discovering new terrain, ramming my head into invisible walls regularly.

 

That "cave" does have an interesting door in the center... Closed for renovation though.

[andy6915]

Well, I was hopeful. I like discovering new things, and I was surprised at how that landmark hill was so empty- no treasure, nothing there of note at all, just a landmark location. A little concealed cave would be nifty. People usually don't find that? Plus if you meddle about in the area you can see a ladder up on that eternally-burning scaffolding to the right of the entrance, so I thought there might be something up there, but I can't get there. It's my first DAI playthrough, so I'm still discovering new terrain, ramming my head into invisible walls regularly.

 

Well...

 

*sheepish body language*

 

It took me about 5 different playthroughs (not all of them were completed though) to discover it. So I assumed most people also probably miss it.

[capn233]

Well, I was hopeful. I like discovering new things, and I was surprised at how that landmark hill was so empty- no treasure, nothing there of note at all, just a landmark location. A little concealed cave would be nifty. People usually don't find that? Plus if you meddle about in the area you can see a ladder up on that eternally-burning scaffolding to the right of the entrance, so I thought there might be something up there, but I can't get there. It's my first DAI playthrough, so I'm still discovering new terrain, ramming my head into invisible walls regularly.

 

That "cave" does have an interesting door in the center... Closed for renovation though.

 

Well the hill itself doesn't have much (besides dragon loot when you kill her), but that little alcove with the chests is one of the spots for tier 2 schematics in the Hinterlands, so that is a decent reward.

 

As far as triggers for the fight, AFAIK the dragonlings in the first area are irrelevant.  The trigger seems to be nearing the back part of that area at a certain distance from where the dragon fight is supposed to be, before the tunnel.