212 réponses à ce sujet

[katamuro]

This is just pure, unadulterated speculation. Reading another thread just made me think of this.

 

What if? And bear with me on this. What if Andromeda is a way out to save the Milky Way galaxy? To undo the terrible endings? What if the whatever mission gets the people of the Andromeda mission to Andromeda ends up with them searching for a way back to Milky Way. And it really doesn't matter how long into the future the Andromeda is set. Or if its "concurrent" with the events of ME3. 

What if the whole point of the game is so that during their travels and searches in the Andromeda they find a way to come back, but its a wormhole or something like that, both in space and in time. So instead of coming back just in space they also come back in time? In time to prevent crucible firing, with possible weapon or a fleet of ships big enough to defeat reapers, advanced with the tech of another galaxy so reapers have no counter to that since all the tech in the Milky Way is more or less reaper-originated.

 

And yes, it seems like a stupid idea. But think about it, if they pull of that somehow possibly better than whatever ramblings I wrote down just now then they can fix the ending, still insist that their vision is un-compromised and move on with not just one galaxy(Andromeda) but with two. Expanding their settings to twice what they had and opening possibilities to a larger amount of stories that can be told. 

 

It could be a way out that gives everyone what they want. People who liked the endings, still have them. People who didn't are going to have a new one. And people who just want to move on, will.

[Kmaru]

Euh i will probably hate that. Seen a lot in comics, video games, movies, books.

It's an easy way to undo things.

 

Hope we will never go there with BW. crossing my fingers.

[Chealec]

This kind of implies that the endings are something BioWare would want to "fix" ... they were nonsense* but that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't what BioWare intended.

 

 

* The only correct choice is Refuse, or to shoot starbrat in the face.

[Mystlock]

Responses to that, they're hard to say. It sounds convincing, would take a lot to make it work. I wonder what it'd mean for Shepard's story if it gets changed up from the future. Bio ware seems they want to keep the trilogy as it is, and so they made a free DLC cutscene for anyone who wanted to new ending that explained what had just happened before their sights. They'll probably start completely new and unique, but this is a very interesting topic to think about.

[Kierro Ren]

I wrote this in another thread, but I really don't see why people still hate the endings. Even the extended version. Since ME1, the choices were destroy or join the Reapers. ME2 gave a new idea, control the Reapers. Yet we get those in the extended version, and people still b!tch... WTF? What ending were you expecting, Shepard and Harbinger sitting by a campfire singing Kumbaya? All while seeing silhouettes of others dancing like Ewoks from Return of the Jedi?

 

This actually happened.

Fan: I want Shepard to be alive!

Me: S/He does in the extended cut, you can destroy the Reapers like you're were suppose to. Also proved the Crucible was lying about killing all sinthetics.

Fan: WHAT!? That so f**king stupid. Well, can you agree with the Illusive Man to control the Reapers?

Me. Yes. You can control the Reapers, but Shepard kills their body, uploading their mind into a Reaper (Kinda like the Avatars in "AVATAR") taking over Harbinger's management.  Bringing peace, as Reaper Shepard commands the Reapers to help rebuild.

Fan: F**K YOU Bioware!! Why the f**king hell would I do that?

Me: Because it was one of the options first given by Saren in ME, TIM in the second.

 

Sometimes, I don't understand people.

[themikefest]

Anything is possible. It all depends on what Bioware wants to do. At the moment the next game will be in Andromeda, and after that, who knows?

[katamuro]

Kierro, I dont hate the endings I hate the situation they created. Writing a game or any kind of epic galaxy spanning story that would involve some major bad guys who are going to do some major damage to someone or something unless they are stopped, it doesn't work with reapers It simply doesnt. In the blue ending with Reaper Shepard you basically got the galactic police, the rest of the galaxy would have to follow the rules imposed by the Reaper Shepard and whatever morality it had.

 

In the green ending with synthesis, without even going into the whole mess of the techno-magic that was involved to create the synth-organic fusion that we were show, the reapers are still there. ALL the reapers, the husks, the other monstrosities that were spawned by the reapers still exist. They supposedly all regained their own will. So what kind of mind do these monstrosities have? A live human tortured to death/converted to husk while alive. Not exactly a pleasant experience. And how about the reapers themselves? Without the control of the Starbrat they are basically collective conciousness of whole species. All their morality, art, thoughts, all that they were converted into that shape by force. They know what was done to them. And it still leaves reapers, however this time without any kind of control in the galaxy. Some might just decide that what they have been doing is the only way. Others might suicide. Others might just do what the Leviathan did and indoctrinate some people, turn them into slaves. Plus the synth-organic fusion, it is after all a false solution to the problem. Nothing is stopping anyone from creating true synthetics again unless the fundamental laws of the universe were changed.

 

Destroy seems to me the only real ending. Sacrificing geth and EDI hurts a lot but the reapers are just too much trouble to be left alive. Also what in the extended cut made you think that the Starbrat lied about killing off al synthetics?

 

 

As I said, this is basically just a thought experiment, what IF? They do it like that? What IF they go back, maybe just in time abort the suicidal operation Hammer. And yeah it has been used in comics a lot and in other scifi too. 

 

PS. I also dont like the green and blue endings because the Shepard's death is not epic enough. Considered what has been done up to that point, jumping into a beam or getting disintegrated by electricity are rather poor ways to die. 

[SolNebula]

Just please NO time travel! What was done is done. No more reapers no more crucible no more cerberus. Thank you!

I can only accept being back in the MW only if Destroy is made canon. If not then better to stay in Andromeda.

[Kmaru]

I wrote this in another thread, but I really don't see why people still hate the endings. Even the extended version. Since ME1, the choices were destroy or join the Reapers. ME2 gave a new idea, control the Reapers. Yet we get those in the extended version, and people still ******... WTF? What ending were you expecting, Shepard and Harbinger sitting by a campfire singing Kumbaya? All while seeing silhouettes of others dancing like Ewoks from Return of the Jedi?

 

This actually happened.

Fan: I want Shepard to be alive!

Me: S/He does in the extended cut, you can destroy the Reapers like you're were suppose to. Also proved the Crucible was lying about killing all sinthetics.

Fan: WHAT!? That so f**king stupid. Well, can you agree with the Illusive Man, to control?

Me. Yes. You can control the Reapers, but Shepard kills their body, uploading their mind into a Reaper (Kinda like the Avatars in "AVATAR") taking over Harbinger's management.  Bringing peace, as Reaper Shepard commands the Reapers to help rebuild.

Fan: F**K YOU Bioware!! Why the f**king hell would I do that?

Me: Because it was one of the options first given by Saren in ME, TIM in the second.

 

Sometimes, I don't understand people.

Same here, my lil brother and I just loved the ending.

[katamuro]

Same here, my lil brother and I just loved the ending.

 

Why? I am not trying to start and argument but explain to me how it was actually good and worth all the time spent up to that point? Especially when compared to something like Dragon Age endings?.

[Kierro Ren]

Kierro, I dont hate the endings I hate the situation they created. Writing a game or any kind of epic galaxy spanning story that would involve some major bad guys who are going to do some major damage to someone or something unless they are stopped, it doesn't work with reapers It simply doesnt. In the blue ending with Reaper Shepard you basically got the galactic police, the rest of the galaxy would have to follow the rules imposed by the Reaper Shepard and whatever morality it had.

 

In the green ending with synthesis, without even going into the whole mess of the techno-magic that was involved to create the synth-organic fusion that we were show, the reapers are still there. ALL the reapers, the husks, the other monstrosities that were spawned by the reapers still exist. They supposedly all regained their own will. So what kind of mind do these monstrosities have? A live human tortured to death/converted to husk while alive. Not exactly a pleasant experience. And how about the reapers themselves? Without the control of the Starbrat they are basically collective conciousness of whole species. All their morality, art, thoughts, all that they were converted into that shape by force. They know what was done to them. And it still leaves reapers, however this time without any kind of control in the galaxy. Some might just decide that what they have been doing is the only way. Others might suicide. Others might just do what the Leviathan did and indoctrinate some people, turn them into slaves. Plus the synth-organic fusion, it is after all a false solution to the problem. Nothing is stopping anyone from creating true synthetics again unless the fundamental laws of the universe were changed.

 

Destroy seems to me the only real ending. Sacrificing geth and EDI hurts a lot but the reapers are just too much trouble to be left alive. Also what in the extended cut made you think that the Starbrat lied about killing off al synthetics?

 

 

As I said, this is basically just a thought experiment, what IF? They do it like that? What IF they go back, maybe just in time abort the suicidal operation Hammer. And yeah it has been used in comics a lot and in other scifi too. 

 

PS. I also dont like the green and blue endings because the Shepard's death is not epic enough. Considered what has been done up to that point, jumping into a beam or getting disintegrated by electricity are rather poor ways to die. 

 

I apologize, I wasn't trying to say you're wrong. It is your opinion, I respect that, I didn't mean to come off as an ass. Asd for destroy, like I said, I think it was the Crucible lying to save itself by saying "You'll kill even the Geth etc" "Even you are part synthetic" implying Shepard may die, yet you see her/him breath, which says the Geth aren't dead.

[katamuro]

I apologize, I wasn't trying to say you're wrong. It is your opinion, I respect that, I didn't mean to come off as an ass.

 

thats ok I understand what you said I didn't take any offense. Just wanted to explain why to me those endings are something I would like changed. Also it really depends on the expectations of the person who played. I expected something completely different and what we got in my opinion was something unworthy of the games so far. I was also one of the people who played the game to 100% the first time over a couple of days so when the end came instead of relief and good mood that I expected I got confusion and disappointment. Which is why even now years later I am still a bit sore about it.

[AlanC9]

* The only correct choice is Refuse, or to shoot starbrat in the face.

Interesting definition of "correct" there.

[AlanC9]

Nothing is stopping anyone from creating true synthetics again unless the fundamental laws of the universe were changed.

However, true synthetics wouldn't be a threat to the upgraded techno-organics anyway. The upgrade to synthetics is nice to have, but doesn't alter the (hypothetical!) balance of power the way the organic upgrades do.
 
 

As I said, this is basically just a thought experiment, what IF? They do it like that? What IF they go back, maybe just in time abort the suicidal operation Hammer. And yeah it has been used in comics a lot and in other scifi too. 

OK. You're asking what if, and my answer is that it sounds awful. One step above canonizing IT. It'd probably put the game into the wait-a-decade-for-the-GOG-sale category..

[ZombiePopper]

I wrote this in another thread, but I really don't see why people still hate the endings. Even the extended version. Since ME1, the choices were destroy or join the Reapers. ME2 gave a new idea, control the Reapers. Yet we get those in the extended version, and people still b!tch... WTF? What ending were you expecting, Shepard and Harbinger sitting by a campfire singing Kumbaya? All while seeing silhouettes of others dancing like Ewoks from Return of the Jedi?

This actually happened.
Fan: I want Shepard to be alive!
Me: S/He does in the extended cut, you can destroy the Reapers like you're were suppose to. Also proved the Crucible was lying about killing all sinthetics.
Fan: WHAT!? That so f**king stupid. Well, can you agree with the Illusive Man to control the Reapers?
Me. Yes. You can control the Reapers, but Shepard kills their body, uploading their mind into a Reaper (Kinda like the Avatars in "AVATAR") taking over Harbinger's management. Bringing peace, as Reaper Shepard commands the Reapers to help rebuild.
Fan: F**K YOU Bioware!! Why the f**king hell would I do that?
Me: Because it was one of the options first given by Saren in ME, TIM in the second.

Sometimes, I don't understand people.

It's pretty simple actually;

You love the endings?
Awesome sauce!
You see no issues or problems anywhere in the endings story, not a single one?
Groovy balls!
For you, All the endings wrap up absolutely, every last little detail in a nice little package, not a single question remaining?
Fan-mother-jumping-tastic!

For others,
They don't have the same reactions/feelings as you do.

And I always choose destroy (mainly because Anderson would. Oh! And because **** Starbrat.) Not because it's the best choice but out of my options it's the only one that remotely makes sense for my Shep.
Plus, hey I believe the Geth and EDI will be just fine.

Control-noooope
Reapers have killed countless beings, and indoc'ed scores more, but because Shep controls them it's all good now? Because they're rebuilding the neighbors fence? Really? (Plus the Indoc'ed Illusive Man would choose control.)
although I'm sure you could get a really nice proximity indoctrination high from working so closely with reapers....

Synthesis-um yeah, (Saren's choice)
Hey I'll be at your place between 1500-1800hrs to jam a toaster in your @$$. You have no choice, I, by myself, made that choice for you and took away your choice. Toasters in everyone's @$$'s mwhahaha!
You knowwws, because org and syn must merge. Me thinks not.

Refuse would've been my go-to choice, buttttt it just feels like I'm being given the "middle finger" for choosing it.

[In Exile]

However, true synthetics wouldn't be a threat to the upgraded techno-organics anyway. The upgrade to synthetics is nice to have, but doesn't alter the (hypothetical!) balance of power the way the organic upgrades do.

Why? This is the part that never made any sense. Understanding doesn't prevent conflict. Even if all synthesised beings were somehow rewired to be incapable of conflict and violence, it doesn't mean they couldn't create something which itself would be incapable of (at least evolving) into being violent.

The ultimate problem with this ending is that being made out of different stuff doesn't really solve any of the causes for conflict (just look at us humans and how good we are at starting conflicts with each other over totally spurious differences, and far more legitimate ones like beliefs).

The alternative would be to say that the newly synthesised beings are just the actual pinnacle of life and would win any possible conflict, but I don't really think 'synthesis solves the problem by creating the best race at genocide ever' is what Bioware was going for as an ending.

[Eryri]

To the OP - sounds good to me. If The Andromeda storyline were to be completely divorced from the Milky Way then I would struggle to care about it at all. So some tiny colony in the boondocks of Andromeda is having trouble with the locals? Big deal. And anything which renders the damn crucible redundant and erases those wretched endings from canon is fine with me. Let's go 'Days of Future Past' on it.

Why? This is the part that never made any sense. Understanding doesn't prevent conflict. Even if all synthesised beings were somehow rewired to be incapable of conflict and violence, it doesn't mean they couldn't create something which itself would be incapable of (at least evolving) into being violent.
The ultimate problem with this ending is that being made out of different stuff doesn't really solve any of the causes for conflict (just look at us humans and how good we are at starting conflicts with each other over totally spurious differences, and far more legitimate ones like beliefs).
The alternative would be to say that the newly synthesised beings are just the actual pinnacle of life and would win any possible conflict, but I don't really think 'synthesis solves the problem by creating the best race at genocide ever' is what Bioware was going for as an ending.

Actually, I think the ultimate problem with that ending is that it's wildly pseudoscientific claptrap that would embarrass the worst episode of Doctor Who. But other than that I agree with your assessment.

[Iakus]

SIlly as it sounds, if MEA is in fact the vehicle for a Cosmic Retcon that undoes the damage ME3 did, I'd put some serious thought into buying it.

[katamuro]

To the OP - sounds good to me. If The Andromeda storyline were to be completely divorced from the Milky Way then I would struggle to care about it at all. So some tiny colony in the boondocks of Andromeda is having trouble with the locals? Big deal. And anything which renders the damn crucible redundant and erases those wretched endings from canon is fine with me. Let's go 'Days of Future Past' on it.


Actually, I think the ultimate problem with that ending is that it's wildly pseudoscientific claptrap that would embarrass the worst episode of Doctor Who. But other than that I agree with your assessment.

 

I understand why some people are hesitant to use time travel however this way both the method of how andromeda mission gets there and how it is connected to the mass effect universe apart from the name of the game are solved. 

One possible way is that they found an leviathan artifact which is like a prototype super-relay which then gets them to andromeda in reasonable time. Or maybe the artifact of whatever aliens are in the andromeda. Anyway there are plenty of possible ways of how to tie it all together and come out on top.

[MrFob]

I don't think this is the solution and I don't like the idea. Using time travel to reboot or "repair" a universe has been done too often already anyway, so there would be nothing new or enticing about it.

Besides, a dev once stated (and this was back in the days of ME1/2 so I am not sure much this still holds true but still) that the ME universe should not have time travel or multiple realities or dimensions or stuff like that. That, despite all the plot holes and issues, it should remain grounded in one reality, just as we are.

I very strongly agree with this idea.

As much as I disliked the ME3 endings, they did happen. There is no going back now after the fact and there should be no cosmic retcon or repair effort or whatever. If you write yourself into a corner, you better deal with it. Everything else would be cheap and not very believable either.

I'd rather they start improving their writing from now on rather than using yet another contrivance to try and fix the last one.

[Iakus]

 

I'd rather they start improving their writing from now on rather than using yet another contrivance to try and fix the last one.

Which is true enough.  But moving the setting to Andromeda is already a contrivance.  SO if they're going with one, they might as well think big 

[katamuro]

I don't think this is the solution and I don't like the idea. Using time travel to reboot or "repair" a universe has been done too often already anyway, so there would be nothing new or enticing about it.

Besides, a dev once stated (and this was back in the days of ME1/2 so I am not sure much this still holds true but still) that the ME universe should not have time travel or multiple realities or dimensions or stuff like that. That, despite all the plot holes and issues, it should remain grounded in one reality, just as we are.

I very strongly agree with this idea.

As much as I disliked the ME3 endings, they did happen. There is no going back now after the fact and there should be no cosmic retcon or repair effort or whatever. If you write yourself into a corner, you better deal with it. Everything else would be cheap and not very believable either.

I'd rather they start improving their writing from now on rather than using yet another contrivance to try and fix the last one.

 

Considering what they did with their space-magic, time travel is rather tame in comparison. Also if its the same writer who wrote the endings then...

Anyway I only suggest this because otherwise their only real option with moving on in the milky way galaxy is to actually ignore the endings. Make the game that far into the future that it doesn't matter. Or do what they are doing now and go to andromeda, never to return. It would be however a shitty end to one of the most promising scifi franchises of the past decade. 

 

If not for that I wouldn't even bother but it just seems a shame to bury it because someone thought going for shock value is going to give them more than going standard.

[AlanC9]

Refuse would've been my go-to choice, buttttt it just feels like I'm being given the "middle finger" for choosing it.

Technically, you're getting the middle finger for making your Shepard do something stupid.

[MrFob]

Well, it's true, the endings were full of contrivances and getting us to Andromeda is probably going to be yet another one.

However, time travel to "repair" the Milky Way is even yet another one and it brings two problems:

1. It really does make the trilogy pointless. Going to Andromeda does not because life in the MW will go on depending on what we did in the trilogy. We may not see it while we are in Andromeda but we still can imagine it. Once we travel back in time (in a best case scenario we travel back before ME1 one prevent the entire disaster in the first place, right?) we really do annihilate the entire franchise as it exists today outright. or we shove into some obscure alternate dimension or whatever

2. Most importantly though, this would set another precedent for the writers to get a cleaning tool for whatever wacky thing they want to do next. They already have plenty such tools and you just want them to get one more? Don't like to deal with the endings? Move to Andromeda. Don't want to stay in Andromeda? Use time travel to repair the milky way. Don't like that? Come up with the next crazy thing. I'd like them to stop this cycle (yes, the bad reaper metaphor is intended), sooner rather than later. I want them to think about how to move on with some half way logical writing, rather than pull the next wack-job to repair the last. If that has to happen in Andromeda from now on because of the crap that happened before, so be it. I'd just like the franchise to stop with the constant 180s and to move forward.

[AlanC9]

The alternative would be to say that the newly synthesised beings are just the actual pinnacle of life and would win any possible conflict, but I don't really think 'synthesis solves the problem by creating the best race at genocide ever' is what Bioware was going for as an ending.

Maybe not, but that's the premise of the (completely hypothetical and probably non-existent) conflict. The problem with organics isn't a lack of understanding, it's that their evolutionary track caps out lower than the synthetics' track.