212 réponses à ce sujet

[ZombiePopper]

Technically, you're getting the middle finger for making your Shepard do something stupid.

Ha there may be truth in that

[Giantdeathrobot]

I wrote this in another thread, but I really don't see why people still hate the endings. Even the extended version. Since ME1, the choices were destroy or join the Reapers. ME2 gave a new idea, control the Reapers. Yet we get those in the extended version, and people still b!tch... WTF? What ending were you expecting, Shepard and Harbinger sitting by a campfire singing Kumbaya? All while seeing silhouettes of others dancing like Ewoks from Return of the Jedi?

 

 

Ironically enough, Synthesis actually does end up with everyone singing Kumbaya. They just needed some brainwashing Starbrat-patented reeducation first.

 

I have issues with all the endings, but I can tolerate Destroy and stomach Control (besides, the thought of God-Emperor Shepard is funny). But Synthesis is one of the worst pieces of writing I ever had the displeasure of experiencing. It makes no sense, it's thematically stupid, it doesn't solve anything if you think about it for a minute, and any and all bad aspects of the ending are swept under the rug by the narration.

[Iakus]

Well, it's true, the endings were full of contrivances and getting us to Andromeda is probably going to be yet another one.

However, time travel to "repair" the Milky Way is even yet another one and it brings two problems:

1. It really does make the trilogy pointless. Going to Andromeda does not because life in the MW will go on depending on what we did in the trilogy. We may not see it while we are in Andromeda but we still can imagine it. Once we travel back in time (in a best case scenario we travel back before ME1 one prevent the entire disaster in the first place, right?) we really do annihilate the entire franchise as it exists today outright. or we shove into some obscure alternate dimension or whatever

2. Most importantly though, this would set another precedent for the writers to get a cleaning tool for whatever wacky thing they want to do next. They already have plenty such tools and you just want them to get one more? Don't like to deal with the endings? Move to Andromeda. Don't want to stay in Andromeda? Use time travel to repair the milky way. Don't like that? Come up with the next crazy thing. I'd like them to stop this cycle (yes, the bad reaper metaphor is intended), sooner rather than later. I want them to think about how to move on with some half way logical writing, rather than pull the next wack-job to repair the last. If that has to happen in Andromeda from now on because of the crap that happened before, so be it. I'd just like the franchise to stop with the constant 180s and to move forward.

Can't really comment on the first point.  I already think the trilogy is pointless.  I can't imagine anything making it more pointless (though I guess I shouldn't say that, as that would be tempting fate...)

 

As to the second point, we're already on that road, and have been for some time (Exhibit A being the constantly changing nature of Cerberus).  Might as well get some enjoyment out of it    Wishing for writing quality that's higher than your average '90s comic book is certainly a laudable desire.  But at this point that's a bit much to hope for.  Better to just hope for something fun and doesn't try to be About Something.

[rapscallioness]

I like the idea, OP.

 

I could imagine a PC that if they left sometime during the Reaper War, it would be gnawing at them. If they found a way that may be able to help, they would grab it.

 

I also could see a PC that may have never been to MW, but was born in Andromeda. I could see them learning of the MW, and trying to go back there one day. Or being an explorer, the PC wants to one day find and explore this lost MW civilization.

 

Either way, a PC that probably knows of the massive destruction caused by the Reaper War, finding someway to make a difference, and running with it. Perhaps even to the consternation of their colleagues/superiors.

 

Shep may still die in all this, but it would make the MW a more viable setting in the future. Although, I think BW wants to explore Andromeda for a bit. Maybe it will take several games to find a way to do this. Then if the franchise still lives itself, they could do a HomeComing game.

[katamuro]

Can't really comment on the first point.  I already think the trilogy is pointless.  I can't imagine anything making it more pointless (though I guess I shouldn't say that, as that would be tempting fate...)

 

As to the second point, we're already on that road, and have been for some time (Exhibit A being the constantly changing nature of Cerberus).  Might as well get some enjoyment out of it    Wishing for writing quality that's higher than your average '90s comic book is certainly a laudable desire.  But at this point that's a bit much to hope for.  Better to just hope for something fun and doesn't try to be About Something.

 

Yeah cerberus went from annoying secret tech and science terrorists in ME1, to clandestine secret organization which invested a significant portion of its resources into building SR-2 and bringing back Shepard to a huge military power with its own army and a lot of ships. 

 

I don't think writing was that bad but the seemingly constant changes in both the lore of previous games and even shifts within the game to make something "look cooler" made it seem cheap. 

 

Also as a sidenote I am going to be ok with it if Bioware actually decides to stick with something for the ME3 ending and move forward, destroy or some kind of composite of all three, as long as they make it so that the universe can move on. And yeah it would have been better if they didn't try to outsmart themselves and us by going philosophical on us but rather would have given us something like the DAO ending does. A one ending(blight ends) with variations upon the different fates of different characters. Honestly DA2 ending compared to the ME3 one seems rather nice. 

[katamuro]

I like the idea, OP.

 

I could imagine a PC that if they left sometime during the Reaper War, it would be gnawing at them. If they found a way that may be able to help, they would grab it.

 

I also could see a PC that may have never been to MW, but was born in Andromeda. I could see them learning of the MW, and trying to go back there one day. Or being an explorer, the PC wants to one day find and explore this lost MW civilization.

 

Either way, a PC that probably knows of the massive destruction caused by the Reaper War, finding someway to make a difference, and running with it. Perhaps even to the consternation of their colleagues/superiors.

 

Shep may still die in all this, but it would make the MW a more viable setting in the future. Although, I think BW wants to explore Andromeda for a bit. Maybe it will take several games to find a way to do this. Then if the franchise still lives itself, they could do a HomeComing game.

 

Yeah, possibly not making it the point of the game straight out but like halfway through discovering some references in an alien ruin about another alien tech that can do it. And not travelling far but just like in time to prevent the huge mistake that is the last mission. 

I guess it could work with one game starting the quest and then the next one actually finishing but I can't see the franchise lasting if they don't at least make a move in that direction in the game being developed now.

[rapscallioness]

The thing is, the Mass Effect field/power itself was said to be able to manipulate the fabricate of space and time. According to the opening board of ME1.

 

They have not used it like this, but the ability to do so was inherent within this power that they called Mass Effect.

[MrFob]

As to the second point, we're already on that road, and have been for some time (Exhibit A being the constantly changing nature of Cerberus).  Might as well get some enjoyment out of it  . Wishing for writing quality that's higher than your average '90s comic book is certainly a laudable desire.  But at this point that's a bit much to hope for.  Better to just hope for something fun and doesn't try to be About Something.

 

So we are giving up, is that it? Alright then. Let me just get the party hat, my little noisemaker and join the rest of the bunch in the asylum. Embrace the chaos.  

[Iakus]

Technically, you're getting the middle finger for making your Shepard do something stupid.

That's not limited to the Refuse ending, of course 

[katamuro]

The thing is, the Mass Effect field/power itself was said to be able to manipulate the fabricate of space and time. According to the opening board of ME1.

 

They have not used it like this, but the ability to do so was inherent within this power that they called Mass Effect.

 

Yeah in order to lighten the mass of something and use it to propel it without the relativistic effects to lightspeeds it would involve some kind of time and space twisty thing(the official technical term). Also the mass relays, they basically punch through a corridor of massless space through everything in their way, its a straight line it doesnt twist around planets or stars which means it has to involve some kind of space manipulation(and where is space there is also time).

 

Also the SR-1 drive system for moving under stealth is basically twisting space-time in front of the ship to create an artificial gravity well so that the ship can fall into it. Everyone just focused on what it does(manipulate mass) rather than what it actually means, after all up until the last bit of ME3 the ME universe was a rather good with not jumping too far into the fictional physics with the only really fictional bit was the mass effect physics. 

[Eryri]

Ironically enough, Synthesis actually does end up with everyone singing Kumbaya. They just needed some brainwashing Starbrat-patented reeducation first.

I have issues with all the endings, but I can tolerate Destroy and stomach Control (besides, the thought of God-Emperor Shepard is funny). But Synthesis is one of the worst pieces of writing I ever had the displeasure of experiencing. It makes no sense, it's thematically stupid, it doesn't solve anything if you think about it for a minute, and any and all bad aspects of the ending are swept under the rug by the narration.

Indeed. I cannot think of any aspect of a work of fiction that I have hated quite as much as synthesis. Even now, I am appalled and embarrassed that whatever passes for the laws of physics in the Mass Effect universe permit even the possibility of something so perfectly ludicrous.

The thing is, the Mass Effect field/power itself was said to be able to manipulate the fabricate of space and time. According to the opening board of ME1.

They have not used it like this, but the ability to do so was inherent within this power that they called Mass Effect.

I seem to recall that if you read the codex, you discover that Conrad Verner was actually a brilliant physicist before he became a delusional Shepard fanboy. He was working on the effect of ME fields on time. With some success, apparently.

[Broganisity]

I still think the solution is to make Shepard's death in ME2 the canon ending. A true 'Suicide Mission' as it were.

Thus, without Shepard, everything falls apart in ME3. Instead of finding the Crucible, The Alliance finds the plans for The Ark/a way to escape to Andromeda. Other races are brought into the plan, thus bypassing the choices made by Shepard, who's been dead (again) for a few months now. As to how the Geth could be brought as well I don't know, unless the Quarians were contacted earlier on for their technical expertise and thus abandoned their idea to storm Rannoch. . .

It'd take some work and it would ****** a bunch of people off, but I could then see a return trip to Andromeda without having to deal with the endings, plus allows us to have a 'true and proper' ending to the Reaper Problem.

[rapscallioness]

snip
I seem to recall that if you read the codex, you discover that Conrad Verner was actually a brilliant physicist before he became a delusional Shepard fanboy. He was working on the effect of ME fields on time. With some success, apparently.

 

What?!? I completely missed that! Lmao. That's great.

 

Friggin' Conrad. Go figure.

[AlanC9]

It's a pretty funny easter egg. You need to complete three apparently unconnected ME1 missions for it to come up, I think.

[Jay P]

This is just pure, unadulterated speculation. Reading another thread just made me think of this.

 

What if? And bear with me on this. What if Andromeda is a way out to save the Milky Way galaxy? To undo the terrible endings? What if the whatever mission gets the people of the Andromeda mission to Andromeda ends up with them searching for a way back to Milky Way. And it really doesn't matter how long into the future the Andromeda is set. Or if its "concurrent" with the events of ME3. 

What if the whole point of the game is so that during their travels and searches in the Andromeda they find a way to come back, but its a wormhole or something like that, both in space and in time. So instead of coming back just in space they also come back in time? In time to prevent crucible firing, with possible weapon or a fleet of ships big enough to defeat reapers, advanced with the tech of another galaxy so reapers have no counter to that since all the tech in the Milky Way is more or less reaper-originated.

 

And yes, it seems like a stupid idea. But think about it, if they pull of that somehow possibly better than whatever ramblings I wrote down just now then they can fix the ending, still insist that their vision is un-compromised and move on with not just one galaxy(Andromeda) but with two. Expanding their settings to twice what they had and opening possibilities to a larger amount of stories that can be told. 

 

It could be a way out that gives everyone what they want. People who liked the endings, still have them. People who didn't are going to have a new one. And people who just want to move on, will.

 

1. Time travel is just lazy story telling.  I was disappointed to see it in one of their other games.

 

2.  This would defeat the player choices in ME3.  It undermines the whole purpose of playing a game, and being emotionally attached to it, if Bioware is just going to wave a magic wand and take away your agency.

 

3.  We don't need to go back to the Milky Way.  That story is complete.

 

On to new galaxies, new protagonists, new antagonists, new stories.

[Iakus]

What?!? I completely missed that! Lmao. That's great.

 

Friggin' Conrad. Go figure.

 

http://masseffect.wi...gy_Dissertation

 

Worth a single War Asset.  Can be upgraded to five if you did certain seemingly useless things in ME1

[katamuro]

1. Time travel is just lazy story telling.  I was disappointed to see it in one of their other games.

 

2.  This would defeat the player choices in ME3.  It undermines the whole purpose of playing a game, and being emotionally attached to it, if Bioware is just going to wave a magic wand and take away your agency.

 

3.  We don't need to go back to the Milky Way.  That story is complete.

 

On to new galaxies, new protagonists, new antagonists, new stories.

 

It wont survive long if they move on every time. Franchises are successful because people like to see the worlds they know evolve +adding something new. Show me a franchise which spent years building its universe or world and then just moved somewhere so far away that whatever happened did not matter in the least. FF games don't count since they are mostly connected by two things, chocobos and the name.

Frankly I think that the creators of Deus Ex:HR are right about just choosing an ending and continuing from there. Yes it made some waves at first but now everyone is looking forward to the next Deus Ex game. 

[Iakus]

 

Frankly I think that the creators of Deus Ex:HR are right about just choosing an ending and continuing from there. Yes it made some waves at first but now everyone is looking forward to the next Deus Ex game. 

Interestingly, they are not.  Supposedly there will be various rumors about what really happened.  But nothing confirmed.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Frankly I think that the creators of Deus Ex:HR are right about just choosing an ending and continuing from there. Yes it made some waves at first but now everyone is looking forward to the next Deus Ex game. 

They aren't doing that. They are doing more of an homogenization of the endings, taking parts from each and having those happen or rumored to have happened so that all players can see the ending they picked as having an impact.

[Jay P]

It wont survive long if they move on every time. Franchises are successful because people like to see the worlds they know evolve +adding something new. Show me a franchise which spent years building its universe or world and then just moved somewhere so far away that whatever happened did not matter in the least. FF games don't count since they are mostly connected by two things, chocobos and the name.

Frankly I think that the creators of Deus Ex:HR are right about just choosing an ending and continuing from there. Yes it made some waves at first but now everyone is looking forward to the next Deus Ex game. 

 

You can't say "show me" and then eliminate the thing that so obviously shows it.

 

Final fantasy is the perfect example.  They reboot every game (or at least they did) and there is less connecting the FF games than there is that will connect ME1-3 and ME:A, which is at least set in the same universe.

 

Metal Gear did softer reboots and it didn't hurt them.

 

There was nothing inherent about Shepard that made him compelling.  He didn't have a set personality, he didn't have a set look, and he wasn't even definitively a "he."

 

There was nothing inherent about the Milky Way galaxy that will be lost and make Mass Effect no longer the series it was.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There was nothing inherent about the Milky Way galaxy that will be lost and make Mass Effect no longer the series it was.

I greatly disagree with this. There are many things that made Mass Effect what it was that will be lost by going to Andromeda. 

[Jay P]

I greatly disagree with this. There are many things that made Mass Effect what it was that will be lost by going to Andromeda. 

 

 

What?  Shepard didn't have a personality, physical description, or even a gender.

 

The Government's were in disarray, possibly destroyed, possibly now synthesized, etc.

 

Anderson and TIM are dead, and I don't think people want Cerebus back anyway.

 

What's going to be lost?  Joker and the Normandy?  A handful of companions that may or may not be dead/synthetics/etc.  

 

Everything else will carry over very neatly in an Ark theory.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What?  Shepard didn't have a personality, physical description, or even a gender.

 

The Government's were in disarray, possibly destroyed, possibly now synthesized, etc.

 

Anderson and TIM are dead, and I don't think people want Cerebus back anyway.

 

What's going to be lost?  Joker and the Normandy?  A handful of companions that may or may not be dead/synthetics/etc.  

 

Everything else will carry over very neatly in an Ark theory.

To start with, some of the culture, some of the tech, some of the lore, potentially some of the species, and actual places(few as they were). 

 

As for the Ark Theory, there is nothing neat about it. It requires either butchering the established lore and/or the use of a huge Deus Ex Machina.

[Jay P]

To start with, some of the culture, some of the tech, some of the lore, and actual places(few as they were). 

 

Techs coming.

 

Culture is coming.  Or at least partially coming.  

 

Lore is definitely coming.

 

Places, well not so much.  But that doesn't mean there won't be cool places.

I understand I am not going to change your mind.  

 

But everything that makes Mass Effect "Mass Effect" will be coming, in my opinion, other than a dead protagonist who had no independent features anyway, and a few of the companions that I will miss.  (RIP Miranda, Jack, Mordin).

[In Exile]

Maybe not, but that's the premise of the (completely hypothetical and probably non-existent) conflict. The problem with organics isn't a lack of understanding, it's that their evolutionary track caps out lower than the synthetics' track.

That's not what I understood the position adopted by the Catalyst to be in ME3. Now, to be fair, I disliked that ending enough that I've never replayed the game and never bought (or seen) Leviathan. I found the extended cut to be so absurd in that cut-scene (of the Normandy fly in) that it jumped the shark even more than the ending for me.

But my recollection was that the Catalyst believed that organic and synthetic life is just naturally always going to be in conflict because of how they're different, and by blendering the two together it could ultimately stop the conflict.