Yes there is. It is impossible that only the 1% of the Milky Way our cycle has explored is the only place in the entire galaxy where there are stories to be told. That's like saying after telling the story of a city, there are no more stories to tell about the country that city is in.
Even with Refuse, there are stories that can be told.
Good ones?
The potential is there.
We have explored only 1% of the Milky Way, so this is objectively false.
That's like saying "Star Wars told the story of Anakin Skywalker, so the story of a galaxy far, far away is done now. Let's go to a galaxy other than the galaxy far, far away to tell more stories."
Not really. It's like pointing to the oceans, and going "well, that's on Earth too!". The remaining MW space is totally unsable, because it got RBG'd. The only way the entire setting is still salvageable is to limit RBG to the MW, and then drop it like a hot potatoe.
Not really. It's like pointing to the oceans, and going "well, that's on Earth too!". The remaining MW space is totally unsable, because it got RBG'd. The only way the entire setting is still salvageable is to limit RBG to the MW, and then drop it like a hot potatoe.
Not quite, after all you are forgetting that the only civilizations that reapers are after are the ones advanced enough to use mass effect technology. For all we know there are dozens of civilizations out there in various stages which are not connected to the gate network. Plus if you choose destroy all that gets destroyed is reapers and AI. So no it is salvagable, it actually was a perfect place to start another trilogy with stories that are not as galaxy threatening, more exploration, new species and it would all fit into the galaxy we already know.
And I agree that there are only two options that are open to bioware, either ignore it completely, forget everything there is about Milky Way or do something that rectifies the problem that was created. Hopefully they will go with slightly modifying Destroy by allowing Shepard to quietly retire while being presumed dead, geth to get rebuild by the quarians and EDI getting permanently transferred to the infiltration bot limiting her and making her more human. There is no need to have any of the old characters really "back" but short cameos would be fun.
Not quite, after all you are forgetting that the only civilizations that reapers are after are the ones advanced enough to use mass effect technology. For all we know there are dozens of civilizations out there in various stages which are not connected to the gate network. Plus if you choose destroy all that gets destroyed is reapers and AI. So no it is salvagable, it actually was a perfect place to start another trilogy with stories that are not as galaxy threatening, more exploration, new species and it would all fit into the galaxy we already know.
And I agree that there are only two options that are open to bioware, either ignore it completely, forget everything there is about Milky Way or do something that rectifies the problem that was created. Hopefully they will go with slightly modifying Destroy by allowing Shepard to quietly retire while being presumed dead, geth to get rebuild by the quarians and EDI getting permanently transferred to the infiltration bot limiting her and making her more human. There is no need to have any of the old characters really "back" but short cameos would be fun.
The blue and green endings both screw the pooch though; in one you have the divine Shepard, lord of the Rippaz, ready to smite the foes of humanity with righteous wrath - and in the other, well, you've now got the Reapers as a partially organic species in their own right (potentially the Geth too) and all organic life, from plants upwards, is partially synthetic too. That, to me, doesn't mean they're going to get along just because they're all cyborgs - the Reapers could still decide to attempt destroy everything as could the CyberRachni (if they survived), CyberYahg (if they get spaceships) or CyberKrogan (if the genophage was cured) and so on.
... and if you factor in Refuse - humanity and ever other suitably advanced race, are extinct in the Milky Way.
Unless BioWare canonised the Destroy ending there's no way to continue in the Milky Way - the variants are too diverse - hence Andromeda.
The blue and green endings both screw the pooch though; in one you have the divine Shepard, lord of the Rippaz, ready to smite the foes of humanity with righteous wrath - and in the other, well, you've now got the Reapers as a partially organic species in their own right (potentially the Geth too) and all organic life, from plants upwards, is partially synthetic too. That, to me, doesn't mean they're going to get along just because they're all cyborgs - the Reapers could still decide to attempt destroy everything as could the CyberRachni (if they survived), CyberYahg (if they get spaceships) or CyberKrogan (if the genophage was cured) and so on.
... and if you factor in Refuse - humanity and ever other suitably advanced race, are extinct in the Milky Way.
Unless BioWare canonised the Destroy ending there's no way to continue in the Milky Way - the variants are too diverse - hence Andromeda.
Which is why I said either modify destroy to be a bit more palatable or redo the whole ending preventing the fiasco. Hence my time travel.
The blue and green endings both screw the pooch though; in one you have the divine Shepard, lord of the Rippaz, ready to smite the foes of humanity with righteous wrath - and in the other, well, you've now got the Reapers as a partially organic species in their own right (potentially the Geth too) and all organic life, from plants upwards, is partially synthetic too. That, to me, doesn't mean they're going to get along just because they're all cyborgs - the Reapers could still decide to attempt destroy everything as could the CyberRachni (if they survived), CyberYahg (if they get spaceships) or CyberKrogan (if the genophage was cured) and so on.
... and if you factor in Refuse - humanity and ever other suitably advanced race, are extinct in the Milky Way.
Unless BioWare canonised the Destroy ending there's no way to continue in the Milky Way - the variants are too diverse - hence Andromeda.
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And that's why its a "new book" in the ME universe... new heroes, new story, new everything.
A pity that some just can't get away from Shep.... maybe these people are really indoctrinated.
A Barnes&Noble store has dozens of western books. All different stories and characters with a common centre which is the western genre that contains, horses, towns, sherrifs, cattlemen, churches, schools, saloons, pistols, shotguns, hats, railroads for fast transportation, mining, ranches, Madame's Honey girls for the lonely cowboy, honky tonk pianos....
ME:A is a new story in the Mass Effect genre.... my view on this issue.
Which is why I said either modify destroy to be a bit more palatable or redo the whole ending preventing the fiasco. Hence my time travel.
Bit too massive a retcon for my taste... I'm quite happy to leave the MW behind, end that story, and begin a new story in another galaxy.
I'm quite happy to leave the MW behind, end that story, and begin a new story in another galaxy.
Good riddance, I'd say. I prefer new galaxies and more new stories.
Good riddance, I'd say. I prefer new galaxies and more new stories.
Why does everyone keeps saying it in a way that as if Shepards story is the only one that the whole galaxy revolves around. Shepards story was only one of many that could be told. Shepards story does not equal the whole milky way.
Which is why I said either modify destroy to be a bit more palatable or redo the whole ending preventing the fiasco. Hence my time travel.
Why does everyone keeps saying it in a way that as if Shepards story is the only one that the whole galaxy revolves around. Shepards story was only one of many that could be told. Shepards story does not equal the whole milky way.
True - but the consequences of Shepard's choice at the end of ME3 affect the whole Milky Way.
Say Shep picked Control: Fred the N7 Pathfinder discovers a race primitive yet powerful space critters that have just developed space flight and are set on a path to destroy the universe - in steps GodShep with his fleet of Rippaz and destroys them, the end.
You still have the problem that you either need to canonise the Destroy ending or add in a massive retcon (it was all a dream) to have the Milky Way really viable... and since BioWare haven't done that.
Good riddance, I'd say. I prefer new galaxies and more new stories.
There's still 99% of the Milky Way that hasn't even been discovered by the Council Races (let alone everything in Council Space and the Terminus we the player haven't seen)
There'd be plenty of room for new stories if Shepard hadn't spewed his/her RGB "Art" all over the place.
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A pity that some just can't get away from Shep.... maybe these people are really[b] indoctrinated.[/]
ME:A is a new story in the Mass Effect genre.... my view on this issue.
Why does everyone keeps saying it in a way that as if Shepards story is the only one that the whole galaxy revolves around. Shepards story was only one of many that could be told. Shepards story does not equal the whole milky way.
And you act like going outside of Milky Way is something bad. And some people certainly think that way, that's why you see so many people getting sad because it won't be about Shepard.
Mass Effect is not about Milky Way only. BW decided Andromeda as the next galaxy and this will be, next trilogy could be Milky Way again or some other galaxy.
There's still 99% of the Milky Way that hasn't even been discovered by the Council Races (let alone everything in Council Space and the Terminus we the player haven't seen)
There'd be plenty of room for new stories if Shepard hadn't spewed his/her RGB "Art" all over the place.
Its the history and the fabric of the universe before the reapers invade, its in the clean cut lines of the Presidium, in the ever present asari, salarians and turians. Its in the way the Tuchanka was shown in ME2 and ME3, its in how Omega was shown as an anti-thesis of Citadel and how in ME3 they were brought a bit closer to each other. Its in the colonies we have visited, in the planets we dropped down in our makos. in the quarian Fleet and the sandstorm on Mars.
Without that, without the shared history, without the "feeling" of history that connects us to the ME universe its just another scifi with aliens, futuristic guns and power-armour. If you strip the milky way away and put it in another galaxy you could easily change the name of the game to whatever you liked and still retained all the same bits and bobs, changed the way technology works from mass effect to some other pseudo-scientific gobbledegook and you would get another game. Really at this point,considering all we know the only thing that connects ME:Andromeda to the Mass Effect universe is the name of the game and possibly some of the aliens.
Ark theory is about as workable as a timetravel one I proposed. Really both require something completely new to be invented for it to work convincingly and both retain enough flaws to be displeasing to people. I like my version better because it actually has a chance of fixing what was wrong rather than just run away and hide
First of all the greatnes of setting in ME is not about the Shepard, the government or Cerberus. Its about a world, universe that is both recognizable and yet futuristic enough to be instantly classic. Its the history and the fabric of the universe before the reapers invade, its in the clean cut lines of the Presidium, in the ever present asari, salarians and turians. Its in the way the Tuchanka was shown in ME2 and ME3, its in how Omega was shown as an anti-thesis of Citadel and how in ME3 they were brought a bit closer to each other. Its in the colonies we have visited, in the planets we dropped down in our makos. in the quarian Fleet and the sandstorm on Mars.
Without that, without the shared history, without the "feeling" of history that connects us to the ME universe its just another scifi with aliens, futuristic guns and power-armour. If you strip the milky way away and put it in another galaxy you could easily change the name of the game to whatever you liked and still retained all the same bits and bobs, changed the way technology works from mass effect to some other pseudo-scientific gobbledegook and you would get another game. Really at this point,considering all we know the only thing that connects ME:Andromeda to the Mass Effect universe is the name of the game and possibly some of the aliens.
As for why I discounted the FF games, they were never games that were united by a single universe. They all had generic fantasy settings rather than one universe, that is why its does not count, no one really expects the next FF game to be connected to the previous one.
Ark theory is about as workable as a timetravel one I proposed. Really both require something completely new to be invented for it to work convincingly and both retain enough flaws to be displeasing to people. I like my version better because it actually has a chance of fixing what was wrong rather than just run away and hide
I'm open for all of it, though. Go to Andromeda? Sure! Giddy Up!
Go back to the MW setting later to see how the apocalyptic events have shaped it? Sure! Let's grab Charles Wallace and Mrs. Who and go Tesseracting like a mofo! Giddy Up!. lol!
But I love time travel and dimension jumping in stories. Always have. Don't know if I've always loved that sort of thing, or if books like The Time Machine by H.G. Wells or A Wrinkle in Time by Madeline L'Engle had a huge impact on me. Not to mention War of the Worlds.
Heh heh.
I definitely want new characters and new conflicts, though. The setting, however, I do not think has to be written in stone one way, or the other.
If they can do it well. If it's interesting, then I'm all for it. The box I check is "all of the above". If they are clever enough and imaginative enough--anything is possible.
I wish they would have retained the whole Reaper thing that they did in ME1, that kept them as huge completely alien monsters and didn't try to make them the Starbrat's bitches. Honestly if they did that and the crucible would power up, some prothean hologram showing up and explaining the options as they were and then shepard choosing one of them, well I would have been much much more ok with that than Starbrat.
I guess it was so sour for me because they both made Reapers into basically robots undoing all the greatness of the premise of the reaper and made shepard choose one of three rather bad choices.
As for time-travel, I would like to see how they justify the whole andromeda mission, how they managed to get ships and people that far out in a reasonable time without another space-magic thingy.
Oh, I agree time travel rarely works well and would not be good with this. I'm just saying that the Ark Theory is more sloppy and destructive than some other alternatives.
How is Ark theory more destructive?
The ending, despite my or your personal feelings about it, exists and is cannon.
The only way to actually acknowledge that cannon is to leave it undisturbed, because of the finality of the endings and their mutually exclusive world states.
Attempting to change them or combine them is by definition more destructive than just letting them be.
Yes there is. It is impossible that only the 1% of the Milky Way our cycle has explored is the only place in the entire galaxy where there are stories to be told. That's like saying after telling the story of a city, there are no more stories to tell about the country that city is in.
When they country is completely destroyed and their are no more narrators to tell a story, then the story is complete.
Even with Refuse, there are stories that can be told.
You're saying that a single story means there are no more stories to tell, so I used another example of a galaxy-spanning story. The fact you don't agree with it does not mean it is inappropriate or irrational.
Your version of time travel necessarily involves destroying our previous game experience under the guise of "fixing" it.Ark theory doesn't require that any cannon be altered or destroyed.
*Leliana voice*
"I want the world back"
Not quite, after all you are forgetting that the only civilizations that reapers are after are the ones advanced enough to use mass effect technology. For all we know there are dozens of civilizations out there in various stages which are not connected to the gate network.
Any civilization that was close to space faring technology is destroyed.
A "Mass Effect" game without space travel or aliens or laser guns is exponentially less of a Mass Effect game then moving the game to Andromeda.
And allowing Space travel and aliens and laser guns in the Milky Way either destroys the "Refuse" ending or makes you design a game that has to incorporate Synthesis and Destroy and Control.
Which is outrageously impractical and limiting to story narrative or completely undermines all of our previous choices.
Plus if you choose destroy all that gets destroyed is reapers and AI. So no it is salvagable, it actually was a perfect place to start another trilogy with stories that are not as galaxy threatening, more exploration, new species and it would all fit into the galaxy we already know.
That is only true if you have a high EMS score and choose destroy. Low EMS scores allow nothing to be salvageable, and that is a valid ending also. So you are again choosing an ending and making all the other player choices meaningless, which pretty much defeats the purpose of the games.
Why does everyone keeps saying it in a way that as if Shepards story is the only one that the whole galaxy revolves around. Shepards story was only one of many that could be told. Shepards story does not equal the whole milky way.
No, but his story ends with the Milky Way being in such mutually exclusive states that no single new story can really encompass all these states and maintain a coherent narrative without retconning or eliminating possible endings.
I know that you don't have any objection to that level of Retconning or reduction of player agency, but, to me, it makes the previous games pointless and would be Bioware kind of saying that they don't value me as a consumer because they can't respect my choices in the game that they created.
How is Ark theory more destructive?
The ending, despite my or your personal feelings about it, exists and is cannon.
The only way to actually acknowledge that cannon is to leave it undisturbed, because of the finality of the endings and their mutually exclusive world states.
Attempting to change them or combine them is by definition more destructive than just letting them be.
Because the Ark Theory either 1) eviscerates the established lore about our cycle's level of technology and common sense and/or 2) requires a massive Deus Ex Machina in order to grant us intergalactic travel. If the Ark was built after the Reaper War it would be a different story since then we'd have several years or decades to either reverse engineer Reaper corpses(Destroy, Refuse) or the Reapers help us crack it(Control, Synthesis), but there is no logical way they could do it in less than one to three years.
So while changing or combining the endings may seem destructive to the endings(I find this debatable), the Ark Theory is destructive to the entire franchise.
Because the Ark Theory either 1) eviscerates the established lore about our cycle's level of technology and common sense and/or 2) requires a massive Deus Ex Machina in order to grant us intergalactic travel. If the Ark was built after the Reaper War it would be a different story since then we'd have several years or decades to either reverse engineer Reaper corpses(Destroy, Refuse) or the Reapers help us crack it(Control, Synthesis), but there is no logical way they could do it in less than one to three years.
So while changing or combining the endings may seem destructive to the endings(I find this debatable), the Ark Theory is destructive to the entire franchise.
The seeds for the Ark theory are already there.
The Prothean, I forget his name, Javick or something like that, was in stasis for a very long time.
We don't yet know how long this trip took.
This could have been the work of the Asari's, who diverted their own resources to it.
Is there a decent amount of Dues Ex Machina there?
Sure, but not completely. The seeds have already been planted by some of their previous choices (the Prothean capsule and the Asari council saying that steps need to be taken to ensure continued civilizations).
And changing or combining endings are destructive by definition. It's a tautology. If you change on ending, then it's no longer an ending. If you combine endings, then you by definition change the previous endings.
Regardless of what we felt of the ending, it was designed to be an ending. All the postscript adult telling the child the story couldn't make it any clearer.
There's still 99% of the Milky Way that hasn't even been discovered by the Council Races (let alone everything in Council Space and the Terminus we the player haven't seen)
There'd be plenty of room for new stories if Shepard hadn't spewed his/her RGB "Art" all over the place.
But /she has.
Honestly, I'd personally have have said, screw it, just select a canon ending if we need to stay in the Milky Way. Make it Destroy since it means you don't need to either deal with the mindfuckery that Synthesis is or have God-Emperor Shepard watching over everyone.
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