212 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

 

Honestly, I'd personally have have said, screw it, just select a canon ending if we need to stay in the Milky Way. Make it Destroy since it means you don't need to either deal with the mindfuckery that Synthesis is or have God-Emperor Shepard watching over everyone.

I'd just Say Dork Age the entire Reaper War and don't canonize anything beyond the Reapers were stopped.  But what do I know?

 

I do know that based on the Catalyst's "logic" Andomeda should be full of synthetics so advanced they make the Reapers look like wind-up toys.  I don't know how they're gonna explain that away.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The seeds for the Ark theory are already there.

 

The Prothean, I forget his name, Javick or something like that, was in stasis for a very long time.

 

We don't yet know how long this trip took.

 

This could have been the work of the Asari's, who diverted their own resources to it.

 

Is there a decent amount of Dues Ex Machina there?  

 

Sure, but not completely.  The seeds have already been planted by some of their previous choices (the Prothean capsule and the Asari council saying that steps need to be taken to ensure continued civilizations).

That's not the main problem. The main problem is discharging the static buildup from the Eezo core. Our cycle's ships have to discharge once every 25 light years or 50 hours or else everything and everyone one inside is cooked alive. So that means that we'll have to discharge at least 101,520 times on the way to Andromeda. And we can only discharge into certain things, particularly planets that have an electromagnetic field, either the atmosphere of a Jovian planet or the surface of a Terrestrial planet. In the darkness and expanse of Dark Space between the Milky Way and Andromeda, finding that many suitable planets in just the perfect locations is a laughable concept. 

 

Now the Reaper drives have somehow solved the discharge problem, but by the time of Mass Effect 3 the lore states that our cycle's top minds have no idea how they have done it, saying they have broken the laws of physics. The Reaper War is less than a year long, and all our top minds and resources are devoted to the Crucible, so there is nobody to work this out. Even if there was, they don't have the time. It took our cycle 11 months to reverse engineer Sovereign's main weapon, which they understood, into the Thannix Cannon, and guns that we know how they work are easier to create than reactors where we have no clue. 

[Jay P]

That's not the main problem. The main problem is discharging the static buildup from the Eezo core. Our cycle's ships have to discharge once every 50 light years or else everything and everyone one inside is cooked alive. So that means that we'll have to discharge at least 101,520 times on the way to Andromeda. And we can only discharge into certain things, particularly planets that have an electromagnetic field, either the atmosphere of a Jovian planet or the surface of a Terrestrial planet. In the darkness and expanse of Dark Space between the Milky Way and Andromeda, finding that many suitable planets in just the perfect locations is a laughable concept. 

 

Now the Reaper drives have somehow solved the discharge problem, but by the time of Mass Effect 3 the lore states that our cycle's top minds have no idea how they have done it, saying they have broken the laws of physics. The Reaper War is less than a year long, and all our top minds and resources are devoted to the Crucible, so there is nobody to work this out. Even if there was, they don't have the time. It took our cycle 11 months to reverse engineer Sovereign's main weapon, which they understood, into the Thannix Cannon, and guns that we know how they work are easier to create than reactors where we have no clue. 

 

Fair enough.

 

I will concede that there is more Dues Ex Machina then I knew.  I never really paid that much attention to the fake science part.

 

Either they will just ignore that, retrofit one of the dead reaper engines (can't use a dead reaper because you will get indoctrinated) or just use space magic wormholes or their equivalent.

 

I still prefer that to eliminating prior player choices.

 

Though i do admit I wish it wasn't so messy.

[katamuro]

Fair enough.

 

I will concede that there is more Dues Ex Machina then I knew.  I never really paid that much attention to the fake science part.

 

Either they will just ignore that, retrofit one of the dead reaper engines (can't use a dead reaper because you will get indoctrinated) or just use space magic wormholes or their equivalent.

 

I still prefer that to eliminating prior player choices.

 

Though i do admit I wish it wasn't so messy.

 

Ok so how do you keep talking about what is destructive to the milky way and how stories are made if you are not up to the lore? the "fake" sciency stuff is part of the lore. You can't just throw it away and keep the rest. Its part of the universe created. Its why people are mad about the crucible, the space-magic. This is science fiction, you have to pay attention to the fake science, its part of the setting and tells quite a lot about it. 

[Jay P]

Ok so how do you keep talking about what is destructive to the milky way and how stories are made if you are not up to the lore? the "fake" sciency stuff is part of the lore. You can't just throw it away and keep the rest. Its part of the universe created. Its why people are mad about the crucible, the space-magic. This is science fiction, you have to pay attention to the fake science, its part of the setting and tells quite a lot about it. 

 

Just because I didn't know about one bit of minutia (that the engines have to be purged every 5 years into a planet), doesn't mean I'm not up on the lore...

 

And you don't need to know every bit of the lore to understand the endings.

 

Refuse: reapers "reap" all sentient life that is close to space faring or is space faring.

Control: Shepard merges and takes control of the reapers and is super robot police.

Synthesis: all organic life becomes part synthetic, and vice versa.  Including the reapers and husks.

Destroy: all the reapers are dead.  All synthetic life is destroyed, or not depending on EMS levels.

 

Those endings are mutually exclusive.

Attempting to modify them or combine them or ignore them is destroying player choice.

[ZombiePopper]

Light year=distance light travels in a year

Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited about MEA.
As many of you,
I simply don't see a clean way to recitify the ME3 endings (in codex) as they will pertain to MEA.
-Ignore it? That's going to leave a big, obvious hole.

-alter endings? Let's face it, unfortunately BW isn't going to touch the endings.

-Ark theory? While it may exist in some semblance in ME already, clean it is not.

-time travel? Again, that's going to create a huge tangled mess to untie in future titles.

-canonize an ending? Removes player agency (as stated) and starts off on the wrong foot for existing fans.

But perhaps I'm thinking to much....
We aren't going to officially know anything for quite awhile. It'll be interesting to see how BW deals with it though...

[Drone223]

And you act like going outside of Milky Way is something bad. And some people certainly think that way, that's why you see so many people getting sad because it won't be about Shepard.

 

Mass Effect is not about Milky Way only. BW decided Andromeda as the next galaxy and this will be, next trilogy could be Milky Way again or some other galaxy.

The problem is that its completely unnecessary to move to another galaxy in addition Bioware is ditching a lot of the established lore and is pretending that the trilogy never happened.

[Iakus]

Light year=distance light travels in a year

Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited about MEA.
As many of you,
I simply don't see a clean way to recitify the ME3 endings (in codex) as they will pertain to MEA.
-Ignore it? That's going to leave a big, obvious hole.

-alter endings? Let's face it, unfortunately BW isn't going to touch the endings.

-Ark theory? While it may exist in some semblance in ME already, clean it is not.

-time travel? Again, that's going to create a huge tangled mess to untie in future titles.

-canonize an ending? Removes player agency (as stated) and starts off on the wrong foot for existing fans.

But perhaps I'm thinking to much....
We aren't going to officially know anything for quite awhile. It'll be interesting to see how BW deals with it though...

I guess they expect Andromeda to be Mass Effect's salvation through destruction...

[JamieCOTC]

With some fans, BW really can't win for losing. The ending of ME3 was not well received. Some people liked it while others didn't. I'd wager that the Extended Cut did elevate the ending for a fair number of folks while for others it still didn't work. For those fans who didn't like the ending no matter what, odds are they still liked the trilogy as a whole. They cared about Shepard and the trilogy characters. With these particular fans, BW really can't win and I think ME:A is saying to them, "Sorry, but we can't help you. We're moving on." I have to sympathize w/ BW in this situation even if they did make their own bed. Anyway, that horse has reached magma by now it's been beaten so much.

As for ME:A, we'll see. It may be great and it deserves a chance to be great. Tying it to the Milky Way as the OP suggests just underscores trilogy ending, something I don't see BW doing in a million years. BW loves to overcorrect. I'm almost sure it's by design, it happens so frequently. Any time fans strongly dislike an element in a game, 9 times out of 10 they don't try and fix it, but run in the opposite direction. Don't like elevators? Take 'em out. Inventory a nightmare in ME1? Take it out! Don't like the Mako? Take out exploration. Combat not so hot in ME1? Make it look like every other shooter. People liked Garrus and Tali? Now they are your best friends ever! Didn't like the ending? Goodbye Milky Way! (I will admit that the combat in ME3 was good and I loved the inventory system in 3 as well)

[Chealec]

That's not the main problem. The main problem is discharging the static buildup from the Eezo core....

 

We don't actually know how far in the future ME:A will be set; could just be a massive lump of metal filled with Prothean style stasis pods, a fusion power core and a VI pilot launched before the events of ME1. Granted, travelling at relativistic speeds it would take more than 2.5 million years to reach Andromeda - but for all we know that's exactly what BioWare have done.

[katamuro]

We don't actually know how far in the future ME:A will be set; could just be a massive lump of metal filled with Prothean style stasis pods, a fusion power core and a VI pilot launched before the events of ME1. Granted, travelling at relativistic speeds it would take more than 2.5 million years to reach Andromeda - but for all we know that's exactly what BioWare have done.

 

a)its impossible to build something even with the technology of ME1-3 that lasts 2.5m years

b)no one, ever would agree to something like this,

c)no one ever would finance something like this

 

Hence if they do something like that it would be incredibly stupid. I would say more stupid than anything they have ever done.

[Chealec]

a)its impossible to build something even with the technology of ME1-3 that lasts 2.5m years

b)no one, ever would agree to something like this,

c)no one ever would finance something like this

 

Hence if they do something like that it would be incredibly stupid. I would say more stupid than anything they have ever done.

 

... based on what evidence? We'll not know until the game's released one way or another probably... my money is on (space) unicorns personally.

 

[katamuro]

... based on what evidence? We'll not know until the game's released one way or another probably... my money is on (space) unicorns personally.

 

 

 

Based on what evidence what? That its completely crazy to try to build something that last 2.5m years? Or that anyone who agreed to fly in it for that long or finance it would probably need to be sedated for their own good?

[Jay P]

Light year=distance light travels in a year

Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited about MEA.
As many of you,
I simply don't see a clean way to recitify the ME3 endings (in codex) as they will pertain to MEA.
-Ignore it? That's going to leave a big, obvious hole.

-alter endings? Let's face it, unfortunately BW isn't going to touch the endings.

-Ark theory? While it may exist in some semblance in ME already, clean it is not.

-time travel? Again, that's going to create a huge tangled mess to untie in future titles.

-canonize an ending? Removes player agency (as stated) and starts off on the wrong foot for existing fans.

But perhaps I'm thinking to much....
We aren't going to officially know anything for quite awhile. It'll be interesting to see how BW deals with it though...

I agree.

For me, personally, Ark theory feels the least destructive, the least messy, the least Dues Ex Machina.

But most importantly, I feel like it gives the writers the best opportunity to make a great story/game. We don't need anything from the Milky Way, and the ME3 ending is just an anchor that will weigh down the franchise.

Let's focus on making the best game that can be made, instead of spending so much time on trying to figure out the best way to retcon the ending into some type of salvageable state.

[Chealec]

Based on what evidence what? That its completely crazy to try to build something that last 2.5m years? Or that anyone who agreed to fly in it for that long or finance it would probably need to be sedated for their own good?

 

You know there are already people volunteering for a one-way trip to Mars right - in the real world, right now?

 

It wouldn't actually have to last 2.5 million years, approaching light speed the local frame time would be appreciably less.

 

Burrow into an asteroid (your external structure can last far longer than a couple of million years then in any case), set up a load of stasis pods inside like Ilos, slap a Mass Effect drive and some engines on it and off you go. That's pretty much what the Collector ships are - or even on a more basic level the asteroid that Shepard crashes into the Alpha Relay in arrival. The lore is already there to do that - shaky though it may be.

 

... but that's besides the point, the new game is in the Andromeda galaxy - how we get there is down to BioWare to figure out.

[katamuro]

You know there are already people volunteering for a one-way trip to Mars right - in the real world, right now?

 

It wouldn't actually have to last 2.5 million years, approaching light speed the local frame time would be appreciably less.

 

Burrow into an asteroid (your external structure can last far longer than a couple of million years then in any case), set up a load of stasis pods inside like Ilos, slap a Mass Effect drive and some engines on it and off you go. That's pretty much what the Collector ships are - or even on a more basic level the asteroid that Shepard crashes into the Alpha Relay in arrival. The lore is already there to do that - shaky though it may be.

 

... but that's besides the point, the new game is in the Andromeda galaxy - how we get there is down to BioWare to figure out.

 

You possibly are not understanding that you can't make a mechanism that lasts even a quarter of million years. Stuff actually have to work, you need huge amounts of longevity for it to work that long. And huge amounts of fuel which will not decay in all that time to actually power all that machinery. Sure you can do what you say but it simply wont work for that amount of time. Even if it slows down to 1 year out of 100, Its 25 thousands years. Without reaper tech its simply not going to last that long. It will need repairs, for repairs you would need a huge amount of materials increasing the size of the ship needed, which would increase the amount of thrust and machinery needed to make it work. 

 

Also going to Mars is a completely different thing. Even if its one way they will be in contact with Earth and they assume that sooner or later more people will join them. Going on a one way trip to andromeda galaxy while sleeping away 2.5 million years is completely different. by the time they arrive even assuming reapers never invaded humanity would have changed so much they would not be recognisable. Complete cutoff from both the humanity and everything they know going into an area they have absolutely no idea what is there. Its completely different from psychological point of view.

 

Also who would ever finance something like this, something that they or their descendants are never going to profit or any way know about. For all intents and purposes its just a very expensive suicide. 

[Chealec]

You possibly are not understanding that you can't make a mechanism that lasts even a quarter of million years. Stuff actually have to work, you need huge amounts of longevity for it to work that long. And huge amounts of fuel which will not decay in all that time to actually power all that machinery. Sure you can do what you say but it simply wont work for that amount of time. Even if it slows down to 1 year out of 100, Its 25 thousands years. Without reaper tech its simply not going to last that long. It will need repairs, for repairs you would need a huge amount of materials increasing the size of the ship needed, which would increase the amount of thrust and machinery needed to make it work.

 
BioWare have already hand-waved all that away... Protheans. 25,000 years, pfff - Javik did twice that.

 

Also going to Mars is a completely different thing. Even if its one way they will be in contact with Earth and they assume that sooner or later more people will join them. Going on a one way trip to andromeda galaxy while sleeping away 2.5 million years is completely different. by the time they arrive even assuming reapers never invaded humanity would have changed so much they would not be recognisable. Complete cutoff from both the humanity and everything they know going into an area they have absolutely no idea what is there. Its completely different from psychological point of view.

Also who would ever finance something like this, something that they or their descendants are never going to profit or any way know about. For all intents and purposes its just a very expensive suicide.

There are trillions of people in council space - even a tiny fraction of one percent would be enough; the trip to Mars now is a suicide mission and people are up for it. Hell, Shepard convinced an entire crew and a non-aligned group of misfits to go one a one-way suicide trip through the Omega 4 Relay... so, again, it's already been done in the Mass Effect games.

 

 

Honestly, I think BioWare are much more likely to "space magic" it to Andromeda than canonise one of the ME3 endings or retcon them out of existence.
 

[N7Jamaican]

That which we know as Andromeda is our salvation through destruction.

[DarthSliver]

Well I am one to believe that Bioware should've used Indoctrination to get out of the messed up endings they created, and that doesn't mean the IT theory just that they use Indoctrination. The starbrat is what ruins the endings for me, I was quite fine with how it was going Shepard talking to Anderson as Anderson drew his last breathe. After Anderson dies Shepard then struggles to reach for the button to activate the crucible. So I would say not too much of the endings needs retconning if they do go down that route     

 

The Starbrat is the only issue with the ending of ME3. Now Bioware has to write up a reason for why we go to Andromeda, how we get to Andromeda, and all at the same time ignore the endings of ME3. It is in my opinion Bioware should've fixed the endings back when ME3 was a thing, now that ship has sailed. But they do still have to write a reason how we get to Andromeda while they ignore the endings of ME3.

 

Also when I have always suggested canonizing an Ending I always state we should do it by popular vote like how the default Femshep was selected for ME3. 

[katamuro]

Well I am one to believe that Bioware should've used Indoctrination to get out of the messed up endings they created, and that doesn't mean the IT theory just that they use Indoctrination. The starbrat is what ruins the endings for me, I was quite fine with how it was going Shepard talking to Anderson as Anderson drew his last breathe. After Anderson dies Shepard then struggles to reach for the button to activate the crucible. So I would say not too much of the endings needs retconning if they do go down that route     

 

The Starbrat is the only issue with the ending of ME3. Now Bioware has to write up a reason for why we go to Andromeda, how we get to Andromeda, and all at the same time ignore the endings of ME3. It is in my opinion Bioware should've fixed the endings back when ME3 was a thing, now that ship has sailed. But they do still have to write a reason how we get to Andromeda while they ignore the endings of ME3.

 

Also when I have always suggested canonizing an Ending I always state we should do it by popular vote like how the default Femshep was selected for ME3. 

Yeah if all shepard did when reaching the crucible was to press the button which initiated the sequence to shut down/destroy all reapers in the galaxy, dying in the process as huge energies of the discharge passed through the citadel, I would have been ok with that. Or at least more ok than what we had.

[In Exile]

I'd just Say Dork Age the entire Reaper War and don't canonize anything beyond the Reapers were stopped. But what do I know?

I do know that based on the Catalyst's "logic" Andomeda should be full of synthetics so advanced they make the Reapers look like wind-up toys. I don't know how they're gonna explain that away.

You can't dork age it without a soft reboot, which is ultimately what Andromeda does anyway, and you'd need a hard reboot ala new 52 to ever revisit any trilogy location. Again, genocide of the rachni/quarians/geth is a huge, huge issue. And to fix it you'd need the absurd version of comic book retcons.

[Iakus]

You can't dork age it without a soft reboot, which is ultimately what Andromeda does anyway, and you'd need a hard reboot ala new 52 to ever revisit any trilogy location. Again, genocide of the rachni/quarians/geth is a huge, huge issue. And to fix it you'd need the absurd version of comic book retcons.

The nice thing about the Milky Way, though, is there's plenty more places to go without revisiting old locations.

 

SUre the rachni, quarians, geth etc are hurdles to overcome.  But given that krogan are still in MEA, it sounds like that's being sidestepped anyway.

[Chealec]

The nice thing about the Milky Way, though, is there's plenty more places to go without revisiting old locations.

 

SUre the rachni, quarians, geth etc are hurdles to overcome.  But given that krogan are still in MEA, it sounds like that's being sidestepped anyway.

 

Except Humans, Asari, Salarians, Turians, Krogan, Quarians, Geth and every other spacefaring race is dead in the Milky Way ... unless you actually chose one of the options the starbrat offered you ... but who in their right mind would do that?!

 

There might be places left to explore in the Milky Way (if you enjoy mostly barren lumps of rock/gas which probably comprises 99% of all planets) but there's no-one left to explore them.

[Ahglock]

Except Humans, Asari, Salarians, Turians, Krogan, Quarians, Geth and every other spacefaring race is dead in the Milky Way ... unless you actually chose one of the options the starbrat offered you ... but who in their right mind would do that?!

 

There might be places left to explore in the Milky Way (if you enjoy mostly barren lumps of rock/gas which probably comprises 99% of all planets) but there's no-one left to explore them.

 

On a quasi serious note I think they could ignore refuse as a choice if they were ever to return to the milky way just like they ignore Shepard dying at the end of 2 as an option if you play 3.

I don't see a way to deal with the 3 options outside picking a cannon ending or the proposed time travel if they want to go into the milky way anytime in the next 1,000 years.

[Chealec]

On a quasi serious note I think they could ignore refuse as a choice if they were ever to return to the milky way just like they ignore Shepard dying at the end of 2 as an option if you play 3.

I don't see a way to deal with the 3 options outside picking a cannon ending or the proposed time travel if they want to go into the milky way anytime in the next 1,000 years.

 

Pretty much yeah - the only we can revisit the Milky Way really is if they canonise the Destroy ending; all others are too problematic. Even if they did canonise Destroy though it gives you the problem that the relay network has been destroyed so, to play as human, you'd have to be some former colonists (or similar) stuck in an already known sector of space and you couldn't introduce any new spacefaring races as all known advanced civilisations played their part in the previous 3 games. Which seriously limits what the writers can play with.

 

... unless you set it significantly far in the future that pre-spaceflight civilisations had evolved.