212 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

That analogy only works if we're playing colonists from the south, so we've brought the Chantry and Ferelden culture with us, and if the darkspawn were destroyed for good in the previous game. Qunari and the Tevinter Imperium could get there as easily as we could, so they could be in too. The big losses would be Dalish elves and Orzammar dwarves.

Seriously, you know there's going to be near-total continuity of culture. That's the easy way to develop the setting. Hence the N7.

As for justification... if I was a Bio guy reading your posts, honestly, I wouldn't see anything to be done fir you.

Actually, no I don't know that there will be near-continuity of culture.  WIll the Council have any authroity in Andromeda?  Aria or any Terminus powers?  The Systems ALliance?  the Turian Hierarchy?  

 

What does N7 even mean any more?  It used to be a rank of profiency in Earth's special forces.  Now it's...what... Andromeda's version of the Nova Corps?

 

SO yeah, just because you have some people from Ferelden on an island doesn't mean that Ferelden or Ferelden culture will matter.

[Il Divo]

Given how the reaper's show up its defiantly feels like a ME trailer.

 

Given how the N7 logo, planet exploration, omniblade, Krogan, and Mako all showed up it definitely feels like an ME trailer. I can play the same game too.

 

Not to mention, the Reapers are gone now. Actually you're demonstrating my exact point: if Reapers are "iconic" to Mass Effect and the Reapers are obliterated, well, any new game is going to be "not" like Mass Effect. Unless you're advocating for Control or Synthesis.

[Il Divo]

Actually, no I don't know that there will be near-continuity of culture.  WIll the Council have any authroity in Andromeda?  Aria or any Terminus powers?  The Systems ALliance?  the Turian Hierarchy?  

 

What does N7 even mean any more?  It used to be a rank of profiency in Earth's special forces.  Now it's...what... Andromeda's version of the Nova Corps?

 

SO yeah, just because you have some people from Ferelden on an island doesn't mean that Ferelden or Ferelden culture will matter.

 

Well, ignoring that they bring their culture with them. People from Ferelden don't stop loving their dogs and being unrefined just because we move the setting. That doesn't apply any less to Andromeda. ​

 

The point was that the comparison omitted some very crucial factors.

[Drone223]

Given how the N7 logo, planet exploration, omniblade, Krogan, and Mako all showed up it definitely feels like an ME trailer. I can play the same game too.

They only appear at the very end of the teaser for 2-3 seconds, previous teasers consistently felt like ME for the whole teaser.

 

 

Not to mention, the Reapers are gone now. Actually you're demonstrating my exact point: if Reapers are "iconic" to Mass Effect and the Reapers are gone, well, any new game is going to be "not" like Mass Effect.

 

Nope the mass relay's and citadel (both also iconic features of the series) are reaper constructs and serve as reminders of their existence.

[Il Divo]

They only appear at the very end of the teaser for 2-3 seconds, previous teasers consistently felt like ME for the whole teaser.

 

Nope the mass relay's and citadel (both also iconic features of the series) are reaper constructs and serve as reminders of their existence.

 

Which shows a pretty weak understanding of this forum's history. Mass Effect 3's teaser was completely ripped apart on here for being incredibly unlike Mass Effect. It was commonly referred to as a Gears of War trailer (right or wrong). If 2-3 seconds of a Reaper and thermals clips, of all things, are enough to convince you it was an ME teaser, then the same should apply to a 2-3 second clip of N7 et al.

 

Relays are currently non-functioning and we're isolated from the Citadel in Destroy, for the time being. I believe that was your own stated preference for a canonized ending. Being honest here: you're not really doing a great job on this point.

[N7_Salohcin]

I also could see a PC that may have never been to MW, but was born in Andromeda. I could see them learning of the MW, and trying to go back there one day. Or being an explorer, the PC wants to one day find and explore this lost MW civilization.

 

^ This. Regardless of why we are in Andromeda for the next installment of the Mass Effect series, I look forward to exploring new planets, vanguard into existing alien conflicts, meeting new races, discovering ancient secrets, and colonizing worlds. Many elements from what makes Mass Effect will still be there, otherwise it wouldn't be Mass Effect.

 

I'm not going to say any future saga in the Milky Way will be non existent, but the Mass Effect trilogy has been concluded. I mean, a whole new galaxy?? Whats there not to like?

[AlanC9]

Actually, no I don't know that there will be near-continuity of culture.  WIll the Council have any authroity in Andromeda?  Aria or any Terminus powers?  The Systems ALliance?  the Turian Hierarchy?  
 
What does N7 even mean any more?  It used to be a rank of profiency in Earth's special forces.  Now it's...what... Andromeda's version of the Nova Corps?
 
SO yeah, just because you have some people from Ferelden on an island doesn't mean that Ferelden or Ferelden culture will matter.

Sure, it's possible that Bio could deliberately throw out the existing structures if they wanted to. (Or go the route Donaldson did in The Wounded Land and present us with social structures that are parodies of what came before.) If they want to make up a new meaning for N7, they can. If they want to do something different from the Council for supra-racial government, they can. If they want to make up new names and organizations for the human and turian governments, they can.

All of that is more work. Why do you think they'd want to do more work? The easy way, both in-universe and for the writers, is to replicate the existing structures in Andromeda.

The only way making new stuff up becomes worthwhile is if they don't like the old stuff. That could happen, sure. I don't see any reason to think it likely.

[Benchpress610]

They screwed up the Milky Way so bad that there is no salvation for it, no matter what ending you chose. The best solution is a clean start many years in the future and in a new galaxy like I hear they are planning. Perhaps they re-find the magic of the 2.9 of the original trilogy and erase the bitter taste that the ending left in most fans' mouth now that Casey Hudson is gone....wait, Mac Walters is still there ..yikes   

[Drone223]

Which shows a pretty weak understanding of this forum's history. Mass Effect 3's teaser was completely ripped apart on here for being incredibly unlike Mass Effect. It was commonly referred to as a Gears of War trailer (right or wrong). If 2-3 seconds of a Reaper and thermals clips, of all things, are enough to convince you it was an ME teaser, then the same should apply to a 2-3 second clip of N7 et al.

 

Let's agree to disagree then.

 

 

Relays are currently non-functioning and we're isolated from the Citadel in Destroy, for the time being. I believe that was your own stated preference for a canonized ending. Being honest here: you're not really doing a great job on this point.

 

Protheans were able to build their own mini relay, and we clearly see the citadel being rebuilt so its not out of the question for the galaxy to rebuild the relay's.

[Il Divo]

 

Protheans were able to build their own mini relay, and we clearly see the citadel being rebuilt so its not out of the question for the galaxy to rebuild the relay's.

 

I think this is a dodge. What happened to the point that Bioware should "not" be side-stepping the endings and actually learn by confronting them? If we're just going to throw the game far enough into the future that we can ignore the most interesting aspect of the Destroy ending (multiple civilizations stuck together trying to survive), then we may as well just retcon the endings out of existence or go soft reboot.

 

You're in a serious Catch-22 here: what are we preserving exactly? If the point is to retain the elements you consider definitively Mass Effect, then rebuilding the relays/Citadel instantly handwaves Destroy away. If the point is to keep us in a setting where the relays/Citadel haven't been rebuilt, then ME4: Destroy is no different than ME:A.

[Iakus]

I think this is a dodge. What happened to the point that Bioware should "not" be side-stepping the endings and actually learn by confronting them? If we're just going to throw the game far enough into the future that we can ignore the most interesting aspect of the Destroy ending (multiple civilizations stuck together trying to survive), then we may as well just retcon the endings out of existence or go soft reboot.

 

That's actually pretty much what I'm saying about moving to Andromeda.  Only it's distance instead of time.  Being able to travel that far simply makes no sense.  Especially to get away from Reaper influence, as the Reapers can go anywhere we can, and get there faster.

[Il Divo]

That's actually pretty much what I'm saying about moving to Andromeda.  Only it's distance instead of time.  Being able to travel that far simply makes no sense.  Especially to get away from Reaper influence, as the Reapers can go anywhere we can, and get there faster.

 

Keep in mind though that you're working towards a different conclusion than drone. Your ideal scenario, if I understand right, is to create a canon universe where the Reapers are simply defeated. His is to actually have Bioware choose a post ending state and continue from there. Honestly, between the two, I'd probably go with Destroy ending. If we're simply going the "Reapers lost" route, we have that all ready to go for us.

​

The problem here though is that neither of those solutions really do a great job of outlining what makes Mass Effect "Mass Effect", at least more so than Andromeda.

 

So many of the characteristic elements are done by ME3's conclusion. Shepard's story is concluded, the Reapers themselves are finished, Cerberus likewise is done, the original cast have become extremely overplayed, and we've discovered a billion Prothean Artifacts. Once that's done, you're basically left with the technology, the races + their history, and locations. I said this already but Andromeda still has 2 of the 3. Hence Alan's point why your comparison would still easily be considered Dragon Age, regardless of location/time shifts.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You guys are forgetting that Cerberus was aboard the Derelict Reaper and The Illusive Man probably had enough scans of the Reaper FTL drive and mass effect core to reverse engineer the thing. This is an easy retcon. The Illusive Man was banging an Asari Matriarch on a regular basis - this is in Lair of The Shadow Broker DLC. It doesn't say which one. Just make her one of the ones running The Ark Project. Nice ass pull there. The Ark Project is something he could get behind. "You'll need help with the drives to get that ship across that vast distance without discharging. I think I can help if you promise to get the best of humanity on board."

 

Which also means Cerberus will be in Andromeda.

[Iakus]

You guys are forgetting that Cerberus was aboard the Derelict Reaper and The Illusive Man probably had enough scans of the Reaper FTL drive and mass effect core to reverse engineer the thing. This is an easy retcon. The Illusive Man was banging an Asari Matriarch on a regular basis - this is in Lair of The Shadow Broker DLC. It doesn't say which one. Just make her one of the ones running The Ark Project. Nice ass pull there. The Ark Project is something he could get behind. "You'll need help with the drives to get that ship across that vast distance without discharging. I think I can help if you promise to get the best of humanity on board."

 

Which also means Cerberus will be in Andromeda.

Where's the "unlike" ?  

 

But that still leaves the problem of

 

How the hell is such a major project going on while fighting a galactic war for survival, the Crucible is being built, and Cerberus' other Mad Science is sucking down everyone's resources?

 

Because it's all a matter of resources.

[Suron]

I would actually love if they pulled something off in Andromeda that let us go back to the Milky Way.

[Dean_the_Young]

Where's the "unlike" ?  

 

But that still leaves the problem of

 

How the hell is such a major project going on while fighting a galactic war for survival, the Crucible is being built, and Cerberus' other Mad Science is sucking down everyone's resources?

 

Because it's all a matter of resources.

 

Simple-

 

There's more resources than you previously thought.

 

It's not like ME3 ever put anything close to fractions or hard numbers towards the Crucible- certainly not enough to compellingly claim that there weren't other major/minor/other projects going on on the side.

[Lady Artifice]

You guys are forgetting that Cerberus was aboard the Derelict Reaper and The Illusive Man probably had enough scans of the Reaper FTL drive and mass effect core to reverse engineer the thing. This is an easy retcon. The Illusive Man was banging an Asari Matriarch on a regular basis - this is in Lair of The Shadow Broker DLC. It doesn't say which one. Just make her one of the ones running The Ark Project. Nice ass pull there. The Ark Project is something he could get behind. "You'll need help with the drives to get that ship across that vast distance without discharging. I think I can help if you promise to get the best of humanity on board."

 

Which also means Cerberus will be in Andromeda.

 

 

 

 

You might be right. 

[Iakus]

Simple-

 

There's more resources than you previously thought.

 

It's not like ME3 ever put anything close to fractions or hard numbers towards the Crucible- certainly not enough to compellingly claim that there weren't other major/minor/other projects going on on the side.

The war alone was going to bankrupt the entire galaxy in a year.  Add to that a massive, so-advanced-they-could-barely-understand-the-blueprints project and they're running on such a thin margin they'll have to stop buying donuts for the break room.

[KaiserShep]

The war alone was going to bankrupt the entire galaxy in a year.  Add to that a massive, so-advanced-they-could-barely-understand-the-blueprints project and they're running on such a thin margin they'll have to stop buying donuts for the break room.

 

Alright people, we have just enough credits left for either the improved plasma conduit, or the last shipment of jelly donuts from the The Crumb Nebula.

 

[There were no survivors when the plasma conduit was breached, but rumor has it that the donuts were delicious]

[Drone223]

The war alone was going to bankrupt the entire galaxy in a year.  Add to that a massive, so-advanced-they-could-barely-understand-the-blueprints project and they're running on such a thin margin they'll have to stop buying donuts for the break room.

But like you said before "It's a matter of resources."

[Dean_the_Young]

The war alone was going to bankrupt the entire galaxy in a year. 

 

 

Cool- and so what? The simple answer still applies: just because the economy will crash in a year doesn't mean there can't still be more resources than you believed. You have no numbers or sense of scale to justify such a claim, because (a) you don't know how much an Arc project costs, and ( don't know how the galactic economy has over the next year.

 

The economy was crashing because there was an overwhelming invasion that was devastating the galaxy and trying to fight it was destroying the financial systems. The issue wasn't 'money shortage,' as if there was some finite and known 'this is how much the Crucible costs and this is how much conventional expenditures we need to buy sufficient time against the Reapers' in which spending zots now suddenly and foreseeably dips us below the line. Nor is there any indication that canceling the Arc project would have provided any significant longevity to the galactic economy (or that adding it would significantly deteriorate the economy).

 

If the war alone is going to be unsustainable within a year, that's an argument for building your escape plan while you still can, not refusing to until it's already too late. Your line of argument can just as well be applied towards the Crucible.

 

 

 

 

 

Add to that a massive, so-advanced-they-could-barely-understand-the-blueprints project and they're running on such a thin margin they'll have to stop buying donuts for the break room.

 

 

You can head-canon that if you want, sure, but why would you? Moreover, why would you expect the Arc to be on the cutting board rather than other things first? The Crucible obviously should have priority, but there are a lot of things besides the Crucible that the galaxy spends money on.

 

We never even saw rationing hit the Citadel, where mass amounts of booze and party clubs were still open for civilians and military alike, and you'd certainly expect that more than you'd expect 'let's cut funding to to a project that may preserve some element of our civilization if out one-shot at winning this war misses.'

[Il Divo]

The war alone was going to bankrupt the entire galaxy in a year.  Add to that a massive, so-advanced-they-could-barely-understand-the-blueprints project and they're running on such a thin margin they'll have to stop buying donuts for the break room.

 

Bankruptcy doesn't strike me as that huge a concern when you have galactic genocide on the line, though. ​

[countofhell]

This is just pure, unadulterated speculation. Reading another thread just made me think of this.

 

What if? And bear with me on this. What if Andromeda is a way out to save the Milky Way galaxy? To undo the terrible endings? What if the whatever mission gets the people of the Andromeda mission to Andromeda ends up with them searching for a way back to Milky Way. And it really doesn't matter how long into the future the Andromeda is set. Or if its "concurrent" with the events of ME3. 

What if the whole point of the game is so that during their travels and searches in the Andromeda they find a way to come back, but its a wormhole or something like that, both in space and in time. So instead of coming back just in space they also come back in time? In time to prevent crucible firing, with possible weapon or a fleet of ships big enough to defeat reapers, advanced with the tech of another galaxy so reapers have no counter to that since all the tech in the Milky Way is more or less reaper-originated.

 

And yes, it seems like a stupid idea. But think about it, if they pull of that somehow possibly better than whatever ramblings I wrote down just now then they can fix the ending, still insist that their vision is un-compromised and move on with not just one galaxy(Andromeda) but with two. Expanding their settings to twice what they had and opening possibilities to a larger amount of stories that can be told. 

 

It could be a way out that gives everyone what they want. People who liked the endings, still have them. People who didn't are going to have a new one. And people who just want to move on, will.

Why saving Milky Way if we can easly space jump to the neighbor Galaxy that is even more than twice bigger as ours  ?

[Chealec]

But like you said before "It's a matter of resources."

 

I'm going with the repurposed Collector Ship Dark Ark theory with a hint of BioWare space magic; there are enough resources then.

 

Certainly more resources available than continuing in the Milky Way after my last complete play-through of the trilogy anyway... since everyone is dead (I shot the starbrat).

[Iakus]

Bankruptcy doesn't strike me as that huge a concern when you have galactic genocide on the line, though. ​

Bankruptcy in itself, no.  But the lack of resources contributing to it is.

 

People, entire worlds, are dying.  Ships are being destroyed.  Trade routes disrupted, preventing needed goods from getting to their destination.  Fuel depots blown up, further disrupting travel.  War profiteering.   Displaced refugees desperately looking for a save harbor.  Wounded soldiers needing care.  Sabotage by indoctrinated agents, people being pulled out of the workforce to fight the Reapers or to work on the Crucible project.    The entire galaxy was in massive upheaval.  Even without the damage to the relays RGB causes, the galaxies would be years if not decades recovering from all this.

 

And in, or after, all this, a second (or is it third, given both the Alliance and Cerberus each had one?) project to accomplish something likely not even considered before the invasion:  to breach the gulf of dark space between the galaxies?

 

 This is something I highly doubt the Protheans had plans secreted away on Mars too.