62 réponses à ce sujet

[Yallegro]

Care to elaborate?

 

Also, knocking Frost Step because it costs too many points while promoting Blizzard is ridiculous.

 

If you are looking to blow something up with Fade Cloak you are not using basic attacks, so Gathering Storm suffers

 

If you want to blow something up with Fade Cloak you aren't standing still and Winter's Stillness deactivates, so no extra mana and cooldown

 

 

(Granted Horror, Blizzard, Ice Mine also screw with Winter's Stillness but not as much)

 

Not really, Blizzard gives you Ice Armor. Furthermore the necro needs a lot of points. If you put those points in Fade Step you are going to get a Blizzard build way too late, like lvl 18 or so instead of 16

 

 

In the end Fade Step is just a source of Cold dmg and even a perfect 1200% hit (rare) isn't devastating as far as mage dmg goes

 

It is useless from range

 

Its function as a dodge is completely contradictory to its function as a close range damager

 

It works poorly with Gathering Storm and Winter's Stillness

 

 

 

I remember the first time I Spirit Marked a Stalker on zone 5.  It killed the Venatori Commander in 15 seconds flat all by itself.

 

I also remember having a pet giant that just stood around next to a bunch of enemies for the whole duration of Spirit Mark.  It just made it impossible to attack anything it was standing next to, but I'll be damned if I am not going to dismiss him without at least watching him crush some mooks first!

 

 

Is this an argument or nostalgia?

 

Stalker can't won't do that on high difficulties

 

Spirit Mark is good if you can grab something huge with knockdown

 

Assassin killing assassin doesn't exactly impress so it just bad 4/5th of the time

[Snakebite]

 

Fade Cloak is kind of advanced and works poorly with Gathering Storm, Winter's Stillness and the necro's poor physical defense.

 

Fade Step has a similar problem if your necro is at risk of taking too much dmg and costs 2 whole ability points

 

Care to elaborate?

 

Also, knocking Frost Step because it costs too many points while promoting Blizzard is ridiculous.

 

In case you can't tell, I was asking about the parts I put in bold.  How does a spell that gives you invulnerability "work poorly with the necro's poor physical defense"?  Why do you think Fade Cloak and Fade Step are too risky to use, even though you (usually) can't be hit while using them.  One cleanses CC and the other can move you great distances, all while giving you invincibility frames; both can deal relatively large amounts of damage for how short their cooldowns are and how low the mana cost is, which is why not getting the buff from Winters Stillness is not a big deal.  That's why I didn't bold that part.

 

I already know you don't get cooldown reductions from Gathering Storm when using abilities.  You do get cooldown reductions from Clean Burn and two abilities that cooldown quickly.  That's why I didn't bold that part.

 

Why did you ignore my question and then talk about things that were not bolded or were cut out of the quote in question?

 

 

Not really, Blizzard gives you Ice Armor. Furthermore the necro needs a lot of points. If you put those points in Fade Step you are going to get a Blizzard build way too late, like lvl 18 or so instead of 16

 

Frost Step requires 3 points spent in the Permafrost tree.  Blizzard requires 5 points spent just to get the first level of it.  Claiming that spending two points makes a build finish "way too late", when the normal time for picking up a core ability for said build is level 16 is ridiculous.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't get Blizzard.  I'm just saying that claiming that Frost Step requires too many points while talking about Blizzard is silly.

 

I remember the first time I Spirit Marked a Stalker on zone 5.  It killed the Venatori Commander in 15 seconds flat all by itself.

 

I also remember having a pet giant that just stood around next to a bunch of enemies for the whole duration of Spirit Mark.  It just made it impossible to attack anything it was standing next to, but I'll be damned if I am not going to dismiss him without at least watching him crush some mooks first!

 

Is this an argument or nostalgia?

 

Stalker can't won't do that on high difficulties

 

Spirit Mark is good if you can grab something huge with knockdown

 

Assassin killing assassin doesn't exactly impress so it just bad 4/5th of the time

 

This is anecdotal evidence of how hit or miss Spirit Mark can be.  Yes, this would be nostalgia from 8 or 9 months ago, so yes, a Stalker could do that at high difficulties when the highest difficulty available was Perilous.  Is there something wrong with fondly remembering an amusing experience and sharing it on a forum with others who play the same game and might therefore also find it entertaining?

[JAMiAM]

Is there something wrong with fondly remembering an amusing experience and sharing it on a forum with others who play the same game and might therefore also find it entertaining?

Oh absolutely.  Ain't nobody told you gaming is serious business?

 

 

 

[Ghost Of N7_SP3CTR3]

Oh absolutely.  Ain't nobody told you gaming is serious business?

Yeah,it's almost a job sometimes.

[Theghostof_timmy]

I'd post something in support of Spirit mark, but Yallegro would have an apoplexy again.

[ottffsse]

I have tried a fair amount of builds on her and have her 250 game banner.

My stats are fairly advanced though not in the ridiculously high territory - in nightmare I can in a team setting tank demons with her by using ice mine and fade cloak to set up a stationary defense from which I nuke away using walking bomb and energy barrage which leads to no cool down virtually thanks to her passives. The other factions have to be played more conservatively and horror helps more me and team than fade cloak. In this fade cloak set up razikale is great as it will process all the time and make you nearly untouchable

For peri I always take fade step because the tempo of Peri matches are very quick now and you need the mobility to keep up in the front. Naturally since dots crit hakkon is Best staff for running horror and walking bomb. Blizzard is good in peri as enemies die quickly and you can keep it up.

If you are really crazy sometime try enhanced blizzard ring and run blizzard mind blast fade step fade cloak.

[hellbiter88]

I ran into a necro sporting flashfire today.

 

 

 

 

 

It was terrible.

[ottffsse]

I ran into a necro sporting flashfire today.





It was terrible.

On Peri its probably fine with virulence but there is not much you can do wrong on peri except maybe not take either waking bomb or blizzard. Actually scratch that I did very well in terms of pure support xp and xp earned for the match once by just using horror winters grasp and some other skill when I forgot to slot wb .

[JiaJM98]

I never used spirit mark again once I noticed that when I'm in ghost mode, trying to self revive using spirit mark only revive you as a ghost and this counts as TWO downs

[Courtnehh]

If you're going to be playing threatening/perilous you can try out my favourite build in my signature below, I think it really shines on perilous. It's a lot more difficult to play on NM however

[Yallegro]

I have tried a fair amount of builds on her and have her 250 game banner.

My stats are fairly advanced though not in the ridiculously high territory - in nightmare I can in a team setting tank demons with her by using ice mine and fade cloak to set up a stationary defense from which I nuke away using walking bomb and energy barrage which leads to no cool down virtually thanks to her passives. The other factions have to be played more conservatively and horror helps more me and team than fade cloak. In this fade cloak set up razikale is great as it will process all the time and make you nearly untouchable

For peri I always take fade step because the tempo of Peri matches are very quick now and you need the mobility to keep up in the front. Naturally since dots crit hakkon is Best staff for running horror and walking bomb. Blizzard is good in peri as enemies die quickly and you can keep it up.

If you are really crazy sometime try enhanced blizzard ring and run blizzard mind blast fade step fade cloak.

 

Doesn't Enhanced Blizzard Ring work only on the initial 75% wpn dmg and not on the 75% upgrade? Or has that been fixed?

 

 

In case you can't tell, I was asking about the parts I put in bold.  How does a spell that gives you invulnerability "work poorly with the necro's poor physical defense"?  Why do you think Fade Cloak and Fade Step are too risky to use, even though you (usually) can't be hit while using them.  One cleanses CC and the other can move you great distances, all while giving you invincibility frames; both can deal relatively large amounts of damage for how short their cooldowns are and how low the mana cost is, which is why not getting the buff from Winters Stillness is not a big deal.  That's why I didn't bold that part.

 

I already know you don't get cooldown reductions from Gathering Storm when using abilities.  You do get cooldown reductions from Clean Burn and two abilities that cooldown quickly.  That's why I didn't bold that part.

 

Why did you ignore my question and then talk about things that were not bolded or were cut out of the quote in question?

 

 

 

Frost Step requires 3 points spent in the Permafrost tree.  Blizzard requires 5 points spent just to get the first level of it.  Claiming that spending two points makes a build finish "way too late", when the normal time for picking up a core ability for said build is level 16 is ridiculous.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't get Blizzard.  I'm just saying that claiming that Frost Step requires too many points while talking about Blizzard is silly.

 

 

 

This is anecdotal evidence of how hit or miss Spirit Mark can be.  Yes, this would be nostalgia from 8 or 9 months ago, so yes, a Stalker could do that at high difficulties when the highest difficulty available was Perilous.  Is there something wrong with fondly remembering an amusing experience and sharing it on a forum with others who play the same game and might therefore also find it entertaining?

 

 

Yes every build should be pew pew from the start, and then the necro dies on perilous

 

No thx

 

 

There is nothing wrong with nostalgia, unless it leads to a noob thinking that Spirit Mark is actually good.

 

 

"Why is Fade Cloak Advanced?"

 

Because it requires more skill and knowledge to survive with Fade Cloak than is required for Ice Armor

 

Obviously it gives you some invulnerability but it will also likely leave you standing amid a group of melee attackers with those abilities on cooldown

 

You need to know things like 

 

-Which enemies take more dmg from spirit dmg

 

-When is it a good time to use it, because catching a fleeing enemy with Fade Cloak is very tricky

 

-How do I best use its small hitbox

 

-When is it a good time to use Fade Cloak from range? "when taking too much dmg, you should also run behind cover then"

 

-Fade Cloak is less interesting if you got poor gear and no Heal on Kill

 

-Do you have scepter of Razikale?

 

-Do you know Fade Cloak makes barrier on you miss?

 

 

And I'm not ragging on Fade Cloak but Fade Step which is generally overused and overvalued

[Dieb]

I'm assuming this is a bad time to mention I'm actually using Energy Barrage on mine?

• Fade Step+
• Blizzard+ / Winter's Grasp
• Energy Barrage+
• Walking Bomb+

The only thing that annoys me is that all of Sidony's fun talents are way down and locked away until lvl 10-12.

[Yallegro]

Energy Barrage is fine

 

Its not Winter's Grasp or Walking Bomb but it's fine

[ottffsse]

Blizzard sucks damage wise even with ring 172% it can be a nice cc and defense ability with ice armour though. Primarily damage is still through wb or fade cloak.

[Dieb]

Energy Barrage is fine

 

Its not Winter's Grasp or Walking Bomb but it's fine

 

Thank you for your approval!

[JohnnyQPublic]

... I nuke away using walking bomb and energy barrage which leads to no cool down virtually thanks to her passives. 

 

I assume you're talking about the Gathering Storm and Clean Burn passives?  Is there something about Walking Bomb and Energy Barrage that accelerates her cooldowns more than any other abilities that she could use?

[ottffsse]

I assume you're talking about the Gathering Storm and Clean Burn passives? Is there something about Walking Bomb and Energy Barrage that accelerates her cooldowns more than any other abilities that she could use?

Each of the 12 hits from energy barrage apparently counts as an attack so very good for gathering storm it seems that way anyway. Further, there are ways to double cast/tap such abilities in quick rapid fire succession and it works best with EB and wb though it is also possible with wb and winter's grasp .

[Snakebite]

There is nothing wrong with nostalgia, unless it leads to a noob thinking that Spirit Mark is actually good.

 

I guess you didn't see my first post about how bad Spirit Mark is, or the second part of the post you are talking about where I talk about how bad Spirit Mark can be.

 

"Why is Fade Cloak Advanced?"

 

Because it requires more skill and knowledge to survive with Fade Cloak than is required for Ice Armor

 

Obviously it gives you some invulnerability but it will also likely leave you standing amid a group of melee attackers with those abilities on cooldown

 

 

"Skill" being realizing that you are about to take damage or that you are knocked down and that you should activate your power that cleanses CC and gives you invulnerability?  Doesn't seen that difficult to me.

 

Then you are stuck in a large group of enemies, so maybe using your ability that does damage and can move you a great distance might be a good idea.

 

Chances are they are not on cooldown when you need them, and if they are, they will be ready soon because 8 second cooldowns with Clean Burn and Gathering Storm is really short.

 

You could even throw in Mind Blast for barrier and stagger while you are "standing amid a group of melee attackers with other abilities on cooldown".  It gives you even more survivability than just Fade Cloak and Fade Step, and provides another low cooldown ability to spam for Clean Burn.

 

 

And I'm not ragging on Fade Cloak but Fade Step which is generally overused and overvalued

 

And yet I see you mention the faults of Fade Cloak more often than Fade Step in all of your posts.

 

I would have to agree that Fade Step is overvalued most of the time, and as a result, the Necromancer is the only class I use it on.  Frost Step works great in conjunction with Fade Cloak.  They might be a bit riskier than using Blizzard and Ice Armor, but they also have far more damage potential, and are nowhere near as risky to use as you make them out to be.

[Proto]

"Why is Fade Cloak Advanced?"

 

Because it requires more skill and knowledge to survive with Fade Cloak than is required for Ice Armor

 

Obviously it gives you some invulnerability but it will also likely leave you standing amid a group of melee attackers with those abilities on cooldown

 

You need to know things like 

 

-Which enemies take more dmg from spirit dmg

 

-When is it a good time to use it, because catching a fleeing enemy with Fade Cloak is very tricky

 

-How do I best use its small hitbox

 

-When is it a good time to use Fade Cloak from range? "when taking too much dmg, you should also run behind cover then"

 

-Fade Cloak is less interesting if you got poor gear and no Heal on Kill

 

-Do you have scepter of Razikale?

 

-Do you know Fade Cloak makes barrier on you miss?

 

 

And I'm not ragging on Fade Cloak but Fade Step which is generally overused and overvalued

 

I don't bust out the L2P often, but you seem to love it. So, L2FADECLOAK.

 

It's invaluable on almost every class that has it...if for nothing more than the invincibility frames and CC removal. I don't think its difficult for people to learn how to use an invincibility button every couple of seconds. Oh, it just happens to do massive spirit damage once you figure out the timing...and all you need to do is have frost step to retreat once its detonated.

 

Really advanced concept right there.

[Beerfish]

I had added fade cloak and removed chain lighting for my keeper in that HB run and I think it really helped me not get killed as often as I thought I would.

 

I also think Frost step is a fantastic ability.  Does some damage and chills and also is great for getting out of trouble, running for a quick rez of a team mate and allows classes to play a bit more aggressively.  Having said all of that most of my experience with it would be on perilous.  It really has become a must for me on all classes that have it available.

[Yallegro]

Look I already made my case

 

I'm not going to repeat myself

 

The last I can add is that Fade Step offers no ranged defense if you can't get behind cover

 

Other than that, Fade Cloak dmg is not exactly massive. About the same as a Crushing Leap with a really tiny hitbox

[sabreracer]

I didn't use Spirit Mark for such a long time because of the bad AI.  However since trying it I find it useful as a throw it out and let it work while I'm doing other stuff.  

 

My con stats are not high so the added heath when I switch the pet off can be handy.  Plus being Spirit damage it bypasses armour (and guard?).

 

I'm not claiming it to be top tier by any means but as I don't currently use her in NM I'm happy to carry on using it.

[KvotheKK]

Actually I disagree that this hero doesn't have an ideal build. It simply requires a lot of luck to find a particular LV 25 unique item called the Superb Belt of the Winter Pact. This item was clearly made to unlock the Necromancer's true potential. What it does is it SEVERELY increases the damage inflicted upon enemies via cold-based abilities at a cost of a SIGNIFICANT amount of health. The health loss can be offset by an amulet of constitution (preferably Superb) and/or life steal.

The build I'm about to describe deals ungodly amounts of damage, however, it is not a solo build. You will need either a competent Keeper or a player who is good at maintaining threat. That is the niche in which this necro truly, ideally, thrives. If you ever find the belt, try this build:

SKILLS

1) Winter's Grasp (with Winter's Chill upgrade)

2) Fade Step (with Frost Step upgrade)

3) Blizzard (with Ice Storm upgrade)

4) Horror (with Despair upgrade)

PASSIVES

1) Blinding Terror

2) Conductive Current

3) Virulence

4) Gathering Storm

5) Tricks of the Trade

6) Winter Stillness

7) Frost Mastery

8) Hastened Demise

9) Unsullied Victim

10) Simulacrum

11) Power of The Dead

12) Death Siphon

13) Ice Armor


I doubt any Mage, using a max-dps build, can out-dps a necromancer that's using this build. In fact, the only class that out-DPSes this Necro is a well-geared assassin using Death Blow efficiently.

You're welcome.

[Minuos]

Appropriate thread is appropriate.

[JiaJM98]

Actually I disagree that this hero doesn't have an ideal build. It simply requires a lot of luck to find a particular LV 25 unique item called the Superb Belt of the Winter Pact. This item was clearly made to unlock the Necromancer's true potential. What it does is it SEVERELY increases the damage inflicted upon enemies via cold-based abilities at a cost of a SIGNIFICANT amount of health. The health loss can be offset by an amulet of constitution (preferably Superb) and/or life steal.

SKILLS

1) Winter's Grasp (with Winter's Chill upgrade)

2) Fade Step (with Frost Step upgrade)

3) Blizzard (with Ice Storm upgrade)

4) Horror (with Despair upgrade)

I doubt any Mage, using a max-dps build, can out-dps a necromancer that's using this build. In fact, the only class that out-DPSes this Necro is a well-geared assassin using Death Blow efficiently.

"The health loss can be offset by an amulet of constitution (preferably Superb) and/or life steal."

 

No. Just... NO! Honestly try this yourself before posting the idea...

 

Ice pact is meh in general. Because:

 

1. Hakkon does electric damage instead of ice

2. Winter's grasp dmg is meh

3. fade step damage is okay ish but then you notice the CD and fade stepping into mobs with pact belt on is, well, good luck with that on NM or HB

4. Blizzard s damage is meh and CANNOT crit. Bad bad bad...

5. Too many ice immune mobs and counting on your horror to kill them will take you a whole year...

 

"I doubt any Mage, using a max-dps build, can out-dps a necromancer that's using this build"

 

Errr, try a dps saarebas with anthlok build and inferno pact. Anthlok massive AOE plus you get different elemental damages, passives gives extra max health on kill which is unaffected by pact belt, have glyphs that gives buff which you don't even need to cast it during the 99.99% of the match and effectively an unlimited supply of elusives and movement speed boost, plus guardian spirit which keeps you safe for the whole match when mobs can barely touch you, and on top of that an OP single target spell that you get right from level 1.

 

DPS saarebas = solo queen & ultimate killing machine.

 

The next best dps mage would be power chord virtuoso, and honestly Necro doesn't even come close to those 2 damage wise, unless one day Bioware decides to add spirit pact into the game, in which case still meh because SHE HAS CD ON HER SKILLS! 

 

But yes I agree mages will never be the ultimate dps if you consider other classes simply because they do elemental damage and enemies got elemental immunities. Assassin can rock NM with Hakkon + Bosun + death blow ring by simply stealth death blow spamming (aim for injured mobs if you don't have godly willpower, and when you do, you can start 1 shot most mobs with death blow from full health).

 

But even though assassin can be OP, I'd say she isn't the best dps because of her lack of aoe and the need of positioning. Stamina can be an issue when you still need to use stealth. I'd say Reaver is the best dps for warriors (both rampage build and red line build) with Avvar and Katari come close after that. Rogue wise Silent Sister  undoubtedly trumps. (Lots of multi hit high damage skills with flow of battle plus broken throwing blades upgrade plus effectively unkillable with all those guard passives if you need it.) If you are a promotion lord Hunter can be pretty insane too when you can just hook and tackle and 1 shot most mobs with hakkon's 3 shot basic attack. Saves you the effort of walking around. But unless you have a godly willpower promote I won't recommend this...