233 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Okay, so if we allow the possibility that there's a moral angle to the Quarian-Geth conflict, changing the outcome makes us responsible for it. Not changing the outcome doesn't. Since I need to sever the Geth connection to the Reapers, I then need to make up for that by siding with them in their conflict with the Quarians. Otherwise, I'm responsible for the Quarian victory. But I'm not responsible for the Quarian defeat, because that was already going to happen.

The Quarians started the fight. The consequences of that fight are their fault. Intent follows the bullet.

But are we really not responsible for the forseeable consequences of our inactiions?

[Monica21]

Hardly. I agree that individuality isn't particularly relevant, but sentience requires subjective perception. The ability to "feel" in other words. Organics in the ME setting all almost certainly have it, including nonsapient animals such as varren or pyjaks. However the geth show no concrete evidence of this. They can make judgements and perform actions based upon their mathematical programming and the inputs provided (i.e "perspective") but it's simple logic. An example is the schism with the Heretics, caused due to a rounding error. I can't even really say that they are operating beyond a highly advanced boolean logic, but it certainly isn't sentience. Sapience, absolutely, indeed the geth are orders of magnitude more intelligent than any individual organic when networked in large numbers, but that has little to do with sentience. 

 

I'm not sure if you're separating Legion from the rest of the Geth and the heretics, but I would disagree with this with regard to Legion. He does feel. On Rannoch he asks if the Geth deserve death. He doesn't ask if they deserve to be shut down or erased from existence. His question is based on the premise that he is alive, and, by virtue of uploading the Reaper code, the rest of the Geth will be alive. He then asks if Tali remembers the question that caused the uprising, likely in an attempt to make her feel guilt, or at least in the hope that she will understand his perspective. He then says that they "regret the deaths of the creators" while uploading the code. Regret is a feeling. He then experiences sadness that he will have to die to be successful.

 

I agree with the rest of your argument however, I'd like to better understand what you think specifically about Legion.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But are we really not responsible for the forseeable consequences of our inactiions?

Of course we're not.

Imagine if you hadn't even been there to act. You wouldn't be responsible for your inaction then.

So if you are responsible for your inaction if you are there, that grants moral weight to your location alone. How does that make sense? Whether you're morally responsible for something you didn't do is dependent on which room you haplen to be in? Really?

[Dean_the_Young]

Of course we're not.

Imagine if you hadn't even been there to act. You wouldn't be responsible for your inaction then.

 

But you were there to act. Imagining you were not there to act is as relevant as any number of infinite hypotheticals that don't reflect the original hypothetical situation.

 

Not making a choice is a separate context from not having the opportunity to make a choice.

 

So if you are responsible for your inaction if you are there, that grants moral weight to your location alone. How does that make sense?

 

 

Opportunity.

 

The expression of morality is always dependent on the ability to act. It's the reason that impotence is not synonymous with virtue- just because you lack the opportunity to demonstrate poor character does not mean you do not, in fact, have poor character.

 

 

Whether you're morally responsible for something you didn't do is dependent on which room you haplen to be in? Really?

 

Of course not- and fortunately no one but you is making that absurd strawman.

 

Moral responsibility is dependent on the ability ability to make a choice, as well as various forms of the assumption of responsibility.

[Sylvius the Mad]

But you were there to act. Imagining you were not there to act is as relevant as any number of infinite hypotheticals that don't reflect the original hypothetical situation.

Not making a choice is a separate context from not having the opportunity to make a choice.

Opportunity.

The expression of morality is always dependent on the ability to act. It's the reason that impotence is not synonymous with virtue- just because you lack the opportunity to demonstrate poor character does not mean you do not, in fact, have poor character.

Having poor character doesn't make you responsible for bad acts. Performing bad acts does that. Having poor character doesn't make you responsible for negative consequences. Having a hand in causing them does that.

Inaction does neither thing.

You're assuming an excluded middle here. I'm not claiming inaction is virtuous. I'm claiming it isn't wicked.

Choosing which condiment to use on your toast is neither virtuous nor wicked. Same as inaction.

Of course not- and fortunately no one but you is making that absurd strawman.

Moral responsibility is dependent on the ability ability to make a choice, as well as various forms of the assumption of responsibility.

I'm trying to deconstruct the issue to isolate the specific cause of moral reaponsibility.

[voteDC]

The Geth pretty much just want to be left alone. Don't come into their space and you won't be bothered. They could have wiped out the Quarians after their attempt to do the same but left them alone when they were no longer an active threat.

Geth only become actively hostile to the rest of the galaxy under Reaper influence (the last occasion driven to it by a once again hostile Quarian people.)

It's not hard to see why people side with the Geth but if I'm honest I've never done a run where I didn't broker piece. I just can't bring myself to get Tali killed in ME2.

[Hrulj]

The Geth pretty much just want to be left alone. Don't come into their space and you won't be bothered. They could have wiped out the Quarians after their attempt to do the same but left them alone when they were no longer an active threat.

Geth only become actively hostile to the rest of the galaxy under Reaper influence (the last occasion driven to it by a once again hostile Quarian people.)

It's not hard to see why people side with the Geth but if I'm honest I've never done a run where I didn't broker piece. I just can't bring myself to get Tali killed in ME2.

Actualy they dont pursue quarians due to limitations in their software. They killed +10 000 000 000 Quarians in morning war. At best 1 in 590 Quarians survived. Get Legion killed and VI will sugarcoat everything less.

 

Geth were actively hostile to everyone in galaxy that entered their systems or tried to establish contact.

[TheN7Penguin]

The Geth are not alive, it is just simulated life. Organics are like Rice Krispies, and Geth are like the cheap own-brands you can buy in the supermarket called something like "Rice Crackles". If anyone had to choose between them, they'd totally go with the Rice Krispies because they're... Rice Krispies.

 

If your washing machine started asking about its existence and whether it was alive, you'd start to panic and probably get it destroyed. It's the same idea. That washing machine would end up being destroyed in some way.

 

And for an example, the Rogue VI on Luna in the first game was gaining sentience and that didn't go well at all for anyone. The Quarians might have thought something would have happened because I can imagine gaining sentience would be confusing. We don't know whether or not the Geth started doing silly things like backflipping through deserts or started slicing up Quarians and planting them like they would seeds. But if the VI from Luna is anything to go from - something bad WOULD have happened during that time.

 

Legion in ME3 basically tries over and over and over again to make Geth seem innocent. He shut down the defences on the Dreadnought because he KNEW the Quarians (like any sensible person) would have destroyed it no matter who was on board - sacrifice few to save many that makes SENSE. But he did it just to make the Quarians look violent.

Then during the Geth consensus mission he just wants to get Shepard alone to give him/her propaganda. He doesn't mention any of the bad things that the Geth have done/still do/will keep doing. Everything he said was to just make Shepard think that the Geth were the innocents, when all the Quarians were doing was trying to scrap faulty technology which WOULD have harmed people.

 

And even if you DO judge them on past actions, Quarians still come up on top. The only bad thing they ever did was, as I said, trying to scrap faulty technology. The Geth on the other hand...

 

Plus, Legion still contains Reaper code. What if the Reapers are making Legion build up sympathy for the Geth so Shepard will let them live so the Geth can continue the cycle after them? What if they're setting up a legacy?

I mean, yes you destroy the Reaper SIGNAL, but even if you disconnect from the internet on a laptop it doesn't stop you from listening to the music you have already there. Maybe the Reaper code has made permanent changes to the Geth no matter what the outcome of the signal (essentially saved the Reaper code to the Geth network), and letting the Geth live instead of the Quarians or peace will mean that the Geth will again turn on Organics.

I mean, it makes sense. The Asari councillor was talking about plans for preserving life in ME3 if the Reapers won, it makes sense for the Reapers to have a backup plan if the organics won too. Maybe the Geth are that backup plan.

I mean, going back to the internet analogy - maybe the Reaper signal was just letting the Geth download files (like you can download something from the internet). And once its downloaded its there for good even if you do disconnect the internet. And not to mention that YOU LET THE GETH KEEP THE REAPER UPGRADES NO MATTER WHAT THE NATURE OF THE SIGNAL IF THEY LIVE. It's dangerous to keep the Geth alive because you don't KNOW what will happen.

And Geth uploaded to Quarian suits? Bad move too. They could potentially indoctrinate all the Quarians that way. So the Geth need to die, it's the safest option.

[Hrulj]

The Geth are not alive, it is just simulated life. Organics are like Rice Krispies, and Geth are like the cheap own-brands you can buy in the supermarket called something like "Rice Crackles". If anyone had to choose between them, they'd totally go with the Rice Krispies because they're... Rice Krispies.

 

If your washing machine started asking about its existence and whether it was alive, you'd start to panic and probably get it destroyed. It's the same idea. That washing machine would end up being destroyed in some way.

 

And for an example, the Rogue VI on Luna in the first game was gaining sentience and that didn't go well at all for anyone. The Quarians might have thought something would have happened because I can imagine gaining sentience would be confusing. We don't know whether or not the Geth started doing silly things like backflipping through deserts or started slicing up Quarians and planting them like they would seeds. But if the VI from Luna is anything to go from - something bad WOULD have happened during that time.

 

Legion in ME3 basically tries over and over and over again to make Geth seem innocent. He shut down the defences on the Dreadnought because he KNEW the Quarians (like any sensible person) would have destroyed it no matter who was on board - sacrifice few to save many that makes SENSE. But he did it just to make the Quarians look violent.

Then during the Geth consensus mission he just wants to get Shepard alone to give him/her propaganda. He doesn't mention any of the bad things that the Geth have done/still do/will keep doing. Everything he said was to just make Shepard think that the Geth were the innocents, when all the Quarians were doing was trying to scrap faulty technology which WOULD have harmed people.

 

And even if you DO judge them on past actions, Quarians still come up on top. The only bad thing they ever did was, as I said, trying to scrap faulty technology. The Geth on the other hand...

 

Plus, Legion still contains Reaper code. What if the Reapers are making Legion build up sympathy for the Geth so Shepard will let them live so the Geth can continue the cycle after them? What if they're setting up a legacy?

I mean, yes you destroy the Reaper SIGNAL, but even if you disconnect from the internet on a laptop it doesn't stop you from listening to the music you have already there. Maybe the Reaper code has made permanent changes to the Geth no matter what the outcome of the signal (essentially saved the Reaper code to the Geth network), and letting the Geth live instead of the Quarians or peace will mean that the Geth will again turn on Organics.

I mean, it makes sense. The Asari councillor was talking about plans for preserving life in ME3 if the Reapers won, it makes sense for the Reapers to have a backup plan if the organics won too. Maybe the Geth are that backup plan.

I mean, going back to the internet analogy - maybe the Reaper signal was just letting the Geth download files (like you can download something from the internet). And once its downloaded its there for good even if you do disconnect the internet. And not to mention that YOU LET THE GETH KEEP THE REAPER UPGRADES NO MATTER WHAT THE NATURE OF THE SIGNAL IF THEY LIVE. It's dangerous to keep the Geth alive because you don't KNOW what will happen.

And Geth uploaded to Quarian suits? Bad move too. They could potentially indoctrinate all the Quarians that way. So the Geth need to die, it's the safest option.

Exactly what made me dislike the geth. On my first playtrough I was disgusted by legion doing that so much that I never even made peace between them, nevermind

[TheN7Penguin]

Yep same here. I didn't fall for it though and destroyed the Geth, then to make sure they were extra dead I chose the destroy ending.

[Batarian Master Race]

Actualy they dont pursue quarians due to limitations in their software. They killed +10 000 000 000 Quarians in morning war. At best 1 in 590 Quarians survived. Get Legion killed and VI will sugarcoat everything less.

 

Geth were actively hostile to everyone in galaxy that entered their systems or tried to establish contact.

 

Keep in mind that if pre-morning-war Quarians were anything like humans, approximately 25% of them were children. Which means, with multiple billion Quarians existing before the Geth uprising, there's a pretty good chance that the Geth killed almost half a billion children.

 

Legion fails to mention this. I wonder why.

[Hrulj]

Keep in mind that if pre-morning-war Quarians were anything like humans, approximately 25% of them were children. Which means, with multiple billion Quarians existing before the Geth uprising, there's a pretty good chance that the Geth killed almost half a billion children.

 

Legion fails to mention this. I wonder why.

They were a space faring/space colonizing species, 10 bilion is a low estimate. Even if just 20% of them were children, Geth killed 2 000 000 000 Quarian children.

If someone lined up all Americans against the wall, and after 590 killed gun malfunctions and allows one american to escape, I doubt anyone would call that mercy. If legion showed the bad things they have done, I would understand that as guilt, a feelings machine cant have and would try to save both. But he never shows anything bad Geth did, instead he lies and deceives, creates scenarios to stay alone with shepart to spill propaganda, and even that is taking he didnt just lie and create a VI scenario to show (Why are Quarians in suits? You see them as you know them, how many Quarians did you see without suits? One. Well....)

[GunKLI]

People can make arguments that they say, if it does not result in the loss quarians code, but I think that these reasons are particularly good or not Metagaming deep knowledge, new geth rise can be controlled or destroyed by the result.

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[Backdraft]

The morality of the the Geth-Quarian conflict is completely irrelevant. Your job is to destroy the reapers by creating the most militarily powerful alliance powerful (measured in war asset strength) with everything else being secondary to that goal. The geth are far more militarily powerful than the quarians, who by all in game accounts are fairly poor soldiers and even more poor strategists and tacticians. The geth on the other hand, with the reaper upgrades, are probably the most powerful non-reaper force in the galaxy. To choose the quarians over the geth is both naive and a strategically inept decision.

 

Just look at mass effect 2. Legion is not only the most powerful squadmate in the game when fully upgraded, but he effectively replaces tali when you aquire him as he has the same default powers yet has twice the firepower and more than twice the durability ( with geth shield upgrades+geth shield boost). 

 

Obviously the best choice is to make peace between them and get both to join the fight against the reapers, but if you have to pick one the geth are the better choice for fairly obvious reasons. 

[Dantriges]

Both give you the same amount of war assets excluding the modifications based on your decision about the heretics. Who cares about the ground warfare capabilities of the geth? You need a fleet. In theory the higher quality of the geth fleet and their high number of dreadnoughts could be worth more, OTOH every ship is a one hit, one kill for a Reaper. The quarians may have many rustbuckets in their fleet but they have a huge number of them.   

[Backdraft]

Both give you the same amount of war assets excluding the modifications based on your decision about the heretics. Who cares about the ground warfare capabilities of the geth? You need a fleet. In theory the higher quality of the geth fleet and their high number of dreadnoughts could be worth more, OTOH every ship is a one hit, one kill for a Reaper. The quarians may have many rustbuckets in their fleet but they have a huge number of them.   

 

If you re-write the heretics (which you should as there's no strategically logical reason to destory them) then the geth give you more, 825 IIRC while the quarians give you max 500, IIRC. 

[Dantriges]

They surprised Legion once already, I don´t want them to surprise me again. At that point in time you barely know Legion and the schism is completely  news to you. Legion doesn´t know if it´s a good idea and how it will influence them, so huh well bye heretics. They were and are actively hostile at this point and thy worship the reapers as gods. Ok, you can rewrite this runtime error but this whole reaper were like gods to us thing is still there.

[Kelthret]

So, according to some people here, if your dog somehow magically gained self conscience and intelligence, we should sacrifice it? You're basically saying the same thing about Geth. Of course Geth did some messed up ****, but so did Quarians, there's no good guys in a war.

I'm not saying siding with either Quarian or Geth is the good choice, I think the only good choice in the game there is if you manage to get peace between them. If you don't, you can argue for both sides, it's genocide either way. And yeah, if we follow pure, cold blooded logic, Geth are the best option, since they are a better force to fight against Reapers.

Oh, and for the record, in my first and canon playthrough, I sided with the Quarian and choosed the Destroy ending.

[Backdraft]

So, according to some people here, if your dog somehow magically gained self conscience and intelligence, we should sacrifice it? You're basically saying the same thing about Geth. Of course Geth did some messed up ****, but so did Quarians, there's no good guys in a war.

I'm not saying siding with either Quarian or Geth is the good choice, I think the only good choice in the game there is if you manage to get peace between them. If you don't, you can argue for both sides, it's genocide either way. And yeah, if we follow pure, cold blooded logic, Geth are the best option, since they are a better force to fight against Reapers.

Oh, and for the record, in my first and canon playthrough, I sided with the Quarian and choosed the Destroy ending.

 

Legion is one of my favorite characters so I always either choose the geth or make peace. I also usually pick the control ending as you get to keep the geth alive and have the reapers help you rebuild. If you want the reapers destroyed forever you can always just order them to fly into the middle of the sun afterwards which destroys the reapers but keeps the geth and EDI alive. 

 

Completely random, but legion reminds me of shockwave from the gen 1 transformers cartoon who was easily my favorite fictional character as a kid. 

[Hrulj]

The morality of the the Geth-Quarian conflict is completely irrelevant. Your job is to destroy the reapers by creating the most militarily powerful alliance powerful (measured in war asset strength) with everything else being secondary to that goal. The geth are far more militarily powerful than the quarians, who by all in game accounts are fairly poor soldiers and even more poor strategists and tacticians. The geth on the other hand, with the reaper upgrades, are probably the most powerful non-reaper force in the galaxy. To choose the quarians over the geth is both naive and a strategically inept decision.

 

Just look at mass effect 2. Legion is not only the most powerful squadmate in the game when fully upgraded, but he effectively replaces tali when you aquire him as he has the same default powers yet has twice the firepower and more than twice the durability ( with geth shield upgrades+geth shield boost). 

 

Obviously the best choice is to make peace between them and get both to join the fight against the reapers, but if you have to pick one the geth are the better choice for fairly obvious reasons. 

 

 

If you want to analyze it that way, then you should consider the fact that Krogan have no spaceships. And also the fact that no space-faring nation has enough ships to transport Krogan anywhere. Not to mention evacuate civilians. Geth Ships are completely useless there, since the geth dont need air and havent built their ships to create air. By picking Quarians you probably save milions, if not bilions of civilians, you can transport troops in hotspots that would otherwise be unavailable. Geth have ships designed for combat. True. But no ship, not even geth can single handedly take out a reaper, while reaper will one shot every ship in the galaxy. Would you rather have 50 000 ships that will be one shoted, or 5000?

 

 

 

So, according to some people here, if your dog somehow magically gained self conscience and intelligence, we should sacrifice it? You're basically saying the same thing about Geth. Of course Geth did some messed up ****, but so did Quarians, there's no good guys in a war.

I'm not saying siding with either Quarian or Geth is the good choice, I think the only good choice in the game there is if you manage to get peace between them. If you don't, you can argue for both sides, it's genocide either way. And yeah, if we follow pure, cold blooded logic, Geth are the best option, since they are a better force to fight against Reapers.

Oh, and for the record, in my first and canon playthrough, I sided with the Quarian and choosed the Destroy ending.

Its not dogs. If dogs gained consciousness it would be evolution. Geth were machines, a dishwasher is more comparable. Secondly, geth bodies are just hardware. Destroying the hardware doesnt kill the geth. In the project overlord mission at the end, you can actualy see the geth leave the body just as you are killing them. 

Also, the geth arent individuals. Only with reaper code upgrades the every geth body becomes a living person. Before that they are consciousness. Only way to kill geth is to destroy the servers, not bodies. Thus technicaly the Quarians havent killed a single geth.

 

 

As for genocide, you are also forgeting a very important point. There are no geth civilians. Every geth unit is capable of combat whereas Quarians have civilians. If in a war tomorrow entire US army is destroyed, every soldier killed, would that be genocide?

 

What legion shows you, is also questionable. First, the Geth in the vids talk. Something no one ever heard of before you met legion, and legion is unique. He is not an everyday geth, but a geth built specificaly to communicate. Unless you are talking that the first geth were more advanced than modern geth 300 years later?

 

Quarians wear suits. Aparently Legion is showing you memories of the Geth. Why would Geth memories show Quarians in suits? And, if we follow legions explanation = you see them as you know them, why arent they different if we are romancing tali, which we probably saw naked. When my Shepard asked Legion about that, legion just mumbled something about it not maping to consensus

 

An army without transports is useless. Colonies cant be evacuated, Krogan cant participate in a war without Quarians, whose every ship can be used to tranport organics.

 

You can get about 855 MS from Quarians if you make right choices. Which I think is equal to what geth give you with right choices. 

[Backdraft]

If you want to analyze it that way, then you should consider the fact that Krogan have no spaceships. And also the fact that no space-faring nation has enough ships to transport Krogan anywhere. Not to mention evacuate civilians. Geth Ships are completely useless there, since the geth dont need air and havent built their ships to create air. By picking Quarians you probably save milions, if not bilions of civilians, you can transport troops in hotspots that would otherwise be unavailable. Geth have ships designed for combat. True. But no ship, not even geth can single handedly take out a reaper, while reaper will one shot every ship in the galaxy. Would you rather have 50 000 ships that will be one shoted, or 5000?

 

 

 

Its not dogs. If dogs gained consciousness it would be evolution. Geth were machines, a dishwasher is more comparable. Secondly, geth bodies are just hardware. Destroying the hardware doesnt kill the geth. In the project overlord mission at the end, you can actualy see the geth leave the body just as you are killing them. 

Also, the geth arent individuals. Only with reaper code upgrades the every geth body becomes a living person. Before that they are consciousness. Only way to kill geth is to destroy the servers, not bodies. Thus technicaly the Quarians havent killed a single geth.

 

 

As for genocide, you are also forgeting a very important point. There are no geth civilians. Every geth unit is capable of combat whereas Quarians have civilians. If in a war tomorrow entire US army is destroyed, every soldier killed, would that be genocide?

 

What legion shows you, is also questionable. First, the Geth in the vids talk. Something no one ever heard of before you met legion, and legion is unique. He is not an everyday geth, but a geth built specificaly to communicate. Unless you are talking that the first geth were more advanced than modern geth 300 years later?

 

Quarians wear suits. Aparently Legion is showing you memories of the Geth. Why would Geth memories show Quarians in suits? And, if we follow legions explanation = you see them as you know them, why arent they different if we are romancing tali, which we probably saw naked. When my Shepard asked Legion about that, legion just mumbled something about it not maping to consensus

 

 

An army without transports is useless. Colonies cant be evacuated, Krogan cant participate in a war without Quarians, whose every ship can be used to tranport organics.

 

You can get about 855 MS from Quarians if you make right choices. Which I think is equal to what geth give you with right choices. 

 

Based on estimations of it's firepower and armor relative to an alliance dreadnought, a geth dreadnought could conceivably 1v1 a reaper capital ship and win. The main gun of a reaper capital ship is described as a magnetohydrodynamic weapon that shoots a magnetically accelerated beam of molten metal at a fraction of light speed that has a destructive power in between 132 and 454 kilotons of TNT. For reference that's about as powerful as a small thermonuclear warhead which can be fitted to most modern cruise missiles. So while a reaper's gun is potent, it's not nearly as devastating as it's implied to be. It's also important to note that the molten metal used in the reaper's MHD weapons is stated to be a liquid alloy of iron, uranium, and tungsten. The beam of a reaper is a dark red color, which implies that the iron is being heated to around 480 degrees. Hot, but not hot enough to melt through modern ceramic composites. 

 

Geth ground troops are also considerably more capable than those of any other faction. Not requiring oxygen is a benefit, not a drawback. 

 

Also the Quarians give you max 750, while the geth give you max 810 IIRC. 

[Hrulj]

Based on estimations of it's firepower and armor relative to an alliance dreadnought, a geth dreadnought could conceivably 1v1 a reaper capital ship and win. The main gun of a reaper capital ship is described as a magnetohydrodynamic weapon that shoots a magnetically accelerated beam of molten metal at a fraction of light speed that has a destructive power in between 132 and 454 kilotons of TNT. For reference that's about as powerful as a small thermonuclear warhead which can be fitted to most modern cruise missiles. So while a reaper's gun is potent, it's not nearly as devastating as it's implied to be. It's also important to note that the molten metal used in the reaper's MHD weapons is stated to be a liquid alloy of iron, uranium, and tungsten. The beam of a reaper is a dark red color, which implies that the iron is being heated to around 480 degrees. Hot, but not hot enough to melt through modern ceramic composites. 

 

Geth ground troops are also considerably more capable than those of any other faction. Not requiring oxygen is a benefit, not a drawback. 

 

Also the Quarians give you max 750, while the geth give you max 810 IIRC. 

Its 30% larger than an alliance dreadnought. Again, power of the gun in the game is measured by the length of the gun. So its 30% more powerful than an alliance dreadnought. But just for the sake of arguing, lets say its 200% more powerful. Its still only one ship. Its basicaly putting all your eggs in one basket. Tungsten melts at 3400 C more or less. 

 

I am not talking about Geth troops. I am talking about all those Krogan troops or civilians stuck on invaded and undefended colonies that cant be transported in Geth ships. Geth ships are suited by design only for geth. They have no oxigen, they have no eating or sleeping quarters, useless for tranporting anyone except Geth themselves.

 

I am sorry but no

http://i.imgur.com/TTOaFf7.jpg

[Jeradon]

The choice of supporting the quarians can be justified strategically: the Geth amount to a powerful army able to defeat the quarians single-handedly, but supporting the Reapers, while the quarians have a numerous fleet, able to carry anti-reaper forces across the galaxy. So there's a no-brainer there.

However does it mean that the Geth should be annihilated? Not so sure. While the quarians are individuals acting individually, the Geth "are" of a different nature.

In fact they appear as units, connected and animated through the Geth consensus, which seems to be a meta-conscience. It means that even though you can destroy a unit, if it is connected to a server, its experience can be uploaded and disseminated across multiple surviving units. Scary isn't it?

 

But if you go beyond that, don't humans and quarians have a community of knowledge and experience disseminated accross individuals? You can even name it: traditions, religions, culture, society, all are layers of the same kind of conscience. The difference between the Geth and the humans is that the information is inflexibly and almost instantly disseminated across the Geth. Humans -and quarians- are individuals and submit the information to criticism. This is why Shepard can tell admiral Xen that she is bullsh*** and negociate a truce.

 

As for the Geth being devious...Nothing is clear. The fact is that due to the influence of the Reapers, there is a Geth change of behaviour. But isn't it a form of distortion? The Geth had they own learning curve before the Reaper came and did not need their upgrade on fundamental grounds .  Distortion of the conscience and of the community of spirit also exists in human society. It even has a name : propaganda. And while some individuals embrace this kind of change, others are conscious of this alteration.

 

And this seems to be the case with Legion , and the other VI.

If they had no sense of individuality, they would not criticise the Old Machines, and would execute the code without questioning. Instead some of them react as if the code was something they rejected. Of course it could be a clever ruse from the Reapers, but the fact is that the objecting Geth will put the Reapers at a disadvantage, if they are allowed to do so. It means that the Geth may not be the mindless executioners others fear.

[Hrulj]

The choice of supporting the quarians can be justified strategically: the Geth amount to a powerful army able to defeat the quarians single-handedly, but supporting the Reapers, while the quarians have a numerous fleet, able to carry anti-reaper forces across the galaxy. So there's a no-brainer there.

However does it mean that the Geth should be annihilated? Not so sure. While the quarians are individuals acting individually, the Geth "are" of a different nature.

In fact they appear as units, connected and animated through the Geth consensus, which seems to be a meta-conscience. It means that even though you can destroy a unit, if it is connected to a server, its experience can be uploaded and disseminated across multiple surviving units. Scary isn't it?

 

But if you go beyond that, don't humans and quarians have a community of knowledge and experience disseminated accross individuals? You can even name it: traditions, religions, culture, society, all are layers of the same kind of conscience. The difference between the Geth and the humans is that the information is inflexibly and almost instantly disseminated across the Geth. Humans -and quarians- are individuals and submit the information to criticism. This is why Shepard can tell admiral Xen that she is bullsh*** and negociate a truce.

 

As for the Geth being devious...Nothing is clear. The fact is that due to the influence of the Reapers, there is a Geth change of behaviour. But isn't it a form of distortion? The Geth had they own learning curve before the Reaper came and did not need their upgrade on fundamental grounds .  Distortion of the conscience and of the community of spirit also exists in human society. It even has a name : propaganda. And while some individuals embrace this kind of change, others are conscious of this alteration.

 

And this seems to be the case with Legion , and the other VI.

If they had no sense of individuality, they would not criticise the Old Machines, and would execute the code without questioning. Instead some of them react as if the code was something they rejected. Of course it could be a clever ruse from the Reapers, but the fact is that the objecting Geth will put the Reapers at a disadvantage, if they are allowed to do so. It means that the Geth may not be the mindless executioners others fear.

Its not just uploading experience. Imagine that if you "kill" a man, shoot him dead, and his body ceases to function, the "soul" just sticks around waiting for a new body, and while its doing that, its able to experience all the things humans close to it are experiencing.

Tradition, religion and experience are in no way comparable to that. Death does not exist to geth, except trough destruction of servers.

 

But legion doesnt have individuality. Nor do any geth before the upgrade. Legion says so himself in ME:2. He is on the other hand a communication unit capable of learning. It is highly probable that he would know what needs to be said, even if he holds no such beliefs himself. In other words, if you were a racist and your boss was of other race than you, would you tell your boss how much you despise him, or would you pay lip service to ideals of anti-racism?

[Backdraft]

Its 30% larger than an alliance dreadnought. Again, power of the gun in the game is measured by the length of the gun. So its 30% more powerful than an alliance dreadnought. But just for the sake of arguing, lets say its 200% more powerful. Its still only one ship. Its basicaly putting all your eggs in one basket. Tungsten melts at 3400 C more or less. 

 

I am not talking about Geth troops. I am talking about all those Krogan troops or civilians stuck on invaded and undefended colonies that cant be transported in Geth ships. Geth ships are suited by design only for geth. They have no oxigen, they have no eating or sleeping quarters, useless for tranporting anyone except Geth themselves.

 

I am sorry but no

http://i.imgur.com/TTOaFf7.jpg

 

despite what the ME codex may say length is not the deciding factor that determines how powerful a magnetic accelerator weapon (ie a railgun) is. What matters is how much power you put into it and how efficient it is. The conservation of energy still applies despite the artificially reduced mass of the projectile.The energy put into the railgun will manifest itself in two forms, as the muzzle energy of the projectile, and as waste heat in the rails. "Lengthening" the rail simply increases the amount of acceleration the projectile can theoretically undergo, which increases it's maximum theoretical muzzle energy (with the constraint being the efficiency of the whole system). With a larger ship you can have a larger power supply which thus gives your railgun more energy. Also considering that geth ships don't need energy for life support (as in air and temperature control) its conceivable that they could focus more of the energy from their reactor into electricity powering their main mass accelerator cannon. 

 

Yes tungten melts at high temperatures, but the beam the reapers use is clearly not pure molten tungsten. Molten tungsten would be white hot, not red. Red implies a temperature of only a few hundred degrees. As the heat of an object affects its radiance, an object heated to several thousand degrees would be bluish-white hot, which the beam of the reaper clearly is not.