275 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

"Leliana is a well-meaning fool. She will do irreparable harm to countless people in the name of "freedom". She proposes to abolish the Circles with nothing but a solemn promise from mages not to murder children. When an angry mage lashes out inside a tower, villages aren't destroyed! The Circle protects us all! Mages will die and take ordinary men with them in a war that cannot be won."

- Vivienne

 

Vivienne, if free mages are so terrible, then why hasn't Tevinter fallen into total chaos because of the supposedly inevitable creation of all those abominations? The simple fact that Tevinter still stands completely contradicts the southern Chantry's propaganda that free mages = abominations, and Vivienne is a fool for not recognizing it. Or maybe she does, but she wants to restore the system that gave her political power. I think it's more likely, though, that she really does buy into the propaganda. So why do people fail to realize that Tevinter's continued existence suggests that abominations aren't so inevitable? Even the qunari freak out about mages. What does Tevinter have that all other societies lack? A better understanding of and control over magic? Does the fear and suppression of magic ultimately lead to more cases of abominations? 

Two things.

A) Tevinter has circles, its nothing on the level of absolute freedom Leliana is proposing.

B ) Tevinter is a land where magic has long been cherished, the approach to it is completely different in the south. For thousands of years in the southern mages have been feared and hated, especially by the Andrastian faithful (due to certain verses of the chant) of which were are told are a great many in number.

[Andromelek]

Considering their free mages proved more than once they are threat for not only society but entire world ,viviene speaks truth.As for abomnations , lets remember they are still circles there and templars even if don't have abilities just probably magisters don't care if abomnation will burn city as long it is not them.To be real the real reason thedas wasn't destroyed by tevinter mages is that would mean end of the setting long time ago so pretty much tevinter drives on powerful hero showing up and saving the day/somone else cleaning their mess so as far they are lucking out.          
 
 

So? I see a lot this argument ,but fact that Primeval Thaig is older than first blight (so is entire dwarven empire) doesn't indicate that taint existed before it , as i said in another thread there are golems in this thaig and golems were invated during first blight to fight darkspawn , what means thaig was still used by dwarves during first blight.

Golems on Primeval Thaig is not an argument that could prove me wrong exactly, there was no hint of they were built there, any dude with a control rod could brought them there at any time, beside, that place was full of Red Lyrium, a "substance never seen before" (probably like Titans, it's record were deleted by the dwarves) I know if it's tainted thing, the darkspawn could be to blame, but then they live close of many lyrium veins and yet that lyrium hasn't turned red, darkspawn themselves were not too numerous on that Thaig, the Rock Wraiths seemingly kept them away from their lair until the demon arrived.

Beside, elves themselves have some allusions to what seems to be Red Lyrium (Andruil's armor as an example) the name of the source of the Blight is Banalhan which literally means "place of nothing" that description perfectly matches with "the Void".


Finally, if you don't like anything you heard up there, the fault of the Blight would fall on the funny dude who played to be Dumat in the first place and on the "Maker" on the second, the notes on the Fade didn't suggested they were hungry power dudes but desperate priests looking for aid, aside, I don't think the Black City was ever Maker's house, the fact of someone forcing its way in would automatically degrade him to Hakkon's and Elven Gods' level, so, even if an actual god could have justified (and I don't think was justified) receive visitors in search of aid with a cursed plague, I think a non-god being doing the same would be pretty much a moron.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Golems on Primeval Thaig is not an argument that could prove me wrong exactly, there was no hint of they were built there, any dude with a control rod could brought them there at any time, beside, that place was full of Red Lyrium, a "substance never seen before" (probably like Titans, it's record were deleted by the dwarves) I know if it's tainted thing, the darkspawn could be to blame, but then they live close of many lyrium veins and yet that lyrium hasn't turned red, darkspawn themselves were not too numerous on that Thaig, the Rock Wraiths seemingly kept them away from their lair until the demon arrived.

Beside, elves themselves have some allusions to what seems to be Red Lyrium (Andruil's armor as an example) the name of the source of the Blight is Banalhan which literally means "place of nothing" that description perfectly matches with "the Void".


Finally, if you don't like anything you heard up there, the fault of the Blight would fall on the funny dude who played to be Dumat in the first place and on the "Maker" on the second, the notes on the Fade didn't suggested they were hungry power dudes but desperate priests looking for aid, aside, I don't think the Black City was ever Maker's house, the fact of someone forcing its way in would automatically degrade him to Hakkon's and Elven Gods' level, so, even if an actual god could have justified (and I don't think was justified) receive visitors in search of aid with a cursed plague, I think a non-god being doing the same would be pretty much a moron.

 

Well they couldn't be created there as you say because simple golems were created by anvil ,either way pretty much that means dwarves were there either during first blight or shortly after considering caradin shut off means to create golems.That there is red lyrium says nothing because we don't have even piece of information that would point whether red lyrium was there before blight only that thaig is very old, either way we know for certain dwarves used thaig during/after first blight so simple red lyrium presence in thaig could be not only caused by darkspawn but also dwarves that could do who knows what in that thaig.

 

As for elven "history" that well isn't as far very correct on events as pointed by solas that their stories doesn't necessarily match reality ,i don't see as far any link to taint.

 

Dumat and possibly another old gods are as guilty as magisters but by any way that doesn't wash fact it was magisters fault either way they pissed off deity or went to play they shouldn't have (well if maker cursed them as chantry says it would be both but point is different) ,pretty much non-mage couldn't have done what magisters have done and that incident proves that mages can and an almost doomed human kind (as well as any other kind).

 

[Lazarillo]

Of course, it's also why the Circle as an institution failed: three main games and a lot of the supplementary material bashed our heads with the fact that the Circles can only keep the average mages under control through oppression: those who are powerful or charismatic enough -that is precisely those who should be surveilled the most- will find ways to get away or to game the system to their advantage.

 

Like Vivienne herself.  Which is why she wants the system back, because she can exploit it.

 

 

Don't forget rivain or the avvar. It s more she is just biase and can't handle losing power she's obtained.

 

Yeah, it's important to remember that Vivienne is a politician.  She's not sincere, she's always trying to push an agenda.  She does make some valid points along the way, but that's mostly coincidental.

[Reznore57]

I don't think Leliana is a fool , but I don't think Vivienne is wrong either.

Leliana wants to make the Chantry toothless and change its message , basically the Chantry would be there only to enforce a spiritual message of love and acceptance.

 

It's fine .

In the long run.

It should be the end goal ...and I'm not buying it just happens in a couple of years.

[Andromelek]

Well they couldn't be created there as you say because simple golems were created by anvil ,either way pretty much that means dwarves were there either during first blight or shortly after considering caradin shut off means to create golems.That there is red lyrium says nothing because we don't have even piece of information that would point whether red lyrium was there before blight only that thaig is very old, either way we know for certain dwarves used thaig during/after first blight so simple red lyrium presence in thaig could be not only caused by darkspawn but also dwarves that could do who knows what in that thaig.

As for elven "history" that well isn't as far very correct on events as pointed by solas that their stories doesn't necessarily match reality ,i don't see as far any link to taint.

Dumat and possibly another old gods are as guilty as magisters but by any way that doesn't wash fact it was magisters fault either way they pissed off deity or went to play they shouldn't have (well if maker cursed them as chantry says it would be both but point is different) ,pretty much non-mage couldn't have done what magisters have done and that incident proves that mages can and an almost doomed human kind (as well as any other kind).

My original point was that Magisters did not created the Blight, they just spread it, and I didn't deny their fault on that.

I think it's little unfair blame Dumat, since that was nothing but a Chantry legend, the only real thing that happened is that someone whispered and claimed to be Dumat, that doesn't necessarily prove being Dumat's fault, Rainier claimed to be Blackwall and he was not Blackwall, beside, there are a lot of things that like to whisper and screw people before Dragons, Demons over all, and they would remain as a threat able to perform magic even if all mages are extinguished, and magic is a threat but not the only nor the worse:

Anders used alchemy to blow up the Chantry, the Qunari's success on invade depends on their Black Powder and military training rather than on their poor Saarebas and Renn was shot by an advanced crossbow, so no, magic is not a great threat just for being magic, it is a threat because "sapient" beings' moronic behaviour and same happens with technology.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Good to see some people understand that Vivienne is, at her core, a calculating politician. She is a politician first before she is a mage. Look at her actions. She plays the Grand Game well with ease and twists the social norms around her to suit her benefit easily.

 

Vivienne real trump card is not that she is a mage, but she is a very capable and cunning politician.

 

If I have to use one word to describe Vivienne it would be Machiavellian.

 

Vivienne - The Machiavellian Mage.

 

Vivienne supports the status quo for the same reason a politician supports something. Not because it has any benefits to others or to the plebs like us, that is merely a side effect. Vivienne supports the status quo because that status quo is the one that is most instrumental in putting her in the position she is in today - a mistress to a very wealthy and powerful man who died under mysterious circumstances and a mage in court holding significant political power.

 

If you listen to the banters between Vivienne and Cole, Dorian, Solas, Sera and even the Nightmare at Adamant, you will realize that this woman is all about hoarding power to herself and for herself. She will dole out scraps of power for those underneath her to give the impression of benevolence, but that is all they are, scrap and impressions. Not significant and not tangible.

 

I have dealt with people like Vivienne in real life, with politicians like her, with leaders and diplomats like her. On the surface, they appear to be the kindest person who has your best interests at heart. However, dig deeper and you find someone who is fixated with obtaining power, especially power over other and hoarding it all to herself.

[Ieldra]

Does the fear and suppression of magic ultimately lead to more cases of abominations? 

Yes. because fear and suppression are not conducive to understanding and control. Understanding and control is what this is about in the end, of yourself and your connection to the Fade as a mage. The more confident you can be in your mental discipline, in that your mind is your own and remains your own if you do not give away control - for that IS the reality - the easier it is for you to resist possession. Fear makes uncertain, and it attracts.....fear demons. A desire to understand attracts....spirits of wisdom, with a little luck. The moments to be wary of are those of high emotion, when you feel "I'd do anything for X", but yet again, the key to mastering those moments without losing yourself is awareness, not fear.

[TheKomandorShepard]

My original point was that Magisters did not created the Blight, they just spread it, and I didn't deny their fault on that.

I think it's little unfair blame Dumat, since that was nothing but a Chantry legend, the only real thing that happened is that someone whispered and claimed to be Dumat, that doesn't necessarily prove being Dumat's fault, Rainier claimed to be Blackwall and he was not Blackwall, beside, there are a lot of things that like to whisper and screw people before Dragons, Demons over all, and they would remain as a threat able to perform magic even if all mages are extinguished, and magic is a threat but not the only nor the worse:

Anders used alchemy to blow up the Chantry, the Qunari's success on invade depends on their Black Powder and military training rather than on their poor Saarebas and Renn was shot by an advanced crossbow, so no, magic is not a great threat just for being magic, it is a threat because "sapient" beings' moronic behaviour and same happens with technology.

 

We don't know if they did or didn't create blight or not as once again we have 0 evidence that blight existed before they went to golden city.In the end however, whether they created blight or not is not relevant here as either way they were one who unleashed it upon world.

 

Considering that even Corypheus who was high priest of dumat confirmed that dumat screwd him over it is more than just made up story in fact a lot things in chantry stroy turned out to be truth so chantry version have at least some credibility.

 

From what i saw anders used magic combined with alchemy considering that he detonated it from a distance pretty much 0 evidence it can be done by non-mage and i doubt that considering that if non-mages had access to such thing they would pretty much use it. Qunari wars are no different than any other wars they are about expansion not destruction so pretty much even if qunari win only difference will be that humans will live under different banner and rules.So comparing mages disasters to qunari is just unfitting. 

 

"it is a threat because "sapient" beings' moronic behaviour and same happens with technology."

And that is why more dangerous technology is out of reach for most of folks and in goverment hands when magic unlike technology can't be takean away from individual and be secured by goverment. 

[Andromelek]

We don't know if they did or didn't create blight or not as once again we have 0 evidence that blight existed before they went to golden city.In the end however, whether they created blight or not is not relevant here as either way they were one who unleashed it upon world.
 
Considering that even Corypheus who was high priest of dumat confirmed that dumat screwd him over it is more than just made up story in fact a lot things in chantry stroy turned out to be truth so chantry version have at least some credibility.
 
From what i saw anders used magic combined with alchemy considering that he detonated it from a distance pretty much 0 evidence it can be done by non-mage and i doubt that considering that if non-mages had access to such thing they would pretty much use it. Qunari wars are no different than any other wars they are about expansion not destruction so pretty much even if qunari win only difference will be that humans will live under different banner and rules.So comparing mages disasters to qunari is just unfitting. 
 
"it is a threat because "sapient" beings' moronic behaviour and same happens with technology."
And that is why more dangerous technology is out of reach for most of folks and in goverment hands when magic unlike technology can't be takean away from individual and be secured by goverment.

He was priest of Dumat, that doesn't mean he knew him, the Old Gods have vanished long ago, Corypheus heard a voice claiming to be Dumat and decided to trust it, but there was a long time since no one have seen any of them, the statues of Dumat were the only thing that allowed them to recognize him when he appeared as a sick Archdemon.

I believe you haven't heard of weapon dealing, but ultimately weapons and technology are a product of wit, that cannot be taken from an individual either, even if government ensures their weaponry and the immediate materials to create it, that doesn't prevent that a clever dude will be unable to do a weapon or a mess, dehydrated milk is a good explosive and it was a vial of radioactive contamination when things went wrong on Chernobyl, but no one is banning it.

And this is on the real world, Thedas was our original subject, if Theodosians run out of fear from wolves and Dragons, which are beasts whose advantages are just for survival then I wonder, if a dude happens to create an effective weapon, who the hell will have the guts and power to take down such dude whose creation's sole purpose is destruction?

Seriously guy, you are talking of magic like if every mage would be evil, or like if every mage would screw it at some point, I don't know if you really believe so or if the point is just contradict me.

[TheKomandorShepard]

He was priest of Dumat, that doesn't mean he knew him, the Old Gods have vanished long ago, Corypheus heard a voice claiming to be Dumat and decided to trust it, but there was a long time since no one have seen any of them, the statues of Dumat were the only thing that allowed them to recognize him when he appeared as a sick Archdemon.

I believe you haven't heard of weapon dealing, but ultimately weapons and technology are a product of wit, that cannot be taken from an individual either, even if government ensures their weaponry and the immediate materials to create it, that doesn't prevent that a clever dude will be unable to do a weapon or a mess, dehydrated milk is a good explosive and it was a vial of radioactive contamination when things went wrong on Chernobyl, but no one is banning it.

And this is on the real world, Thedas was our original subject, if Theodosians run out of fear from wolves and Dragons, which are beasts whose advantages are just for survival then I wonder, if a dude happens to create an effective weapon, who the hell will have the guts and power to take down such dude whose creation's sole purpose is destruction?

Seriously guy, you are talking of magic like if every mage would be evil, or like if every mage would screw it at some point, I don't know if you really believe so or if the point is just contradict me.

And how do you know it wasn't dumat ,from where you take information that old god were gone for long time unless you are talking about time after they went to black city what is irrelevant.Either way as far everything points on dumat tricking magisters what is pointed by chantry version and well even corypheus.

 

Guns are far away from most dangerous technology, avoiding even despite that they are still illegal (or at least without permission) in many countries , really dangerous stuff is pretty much out of reach for folks so no don't count you will buy nuclear bomb.Also again lets not compare a gun to mages because person with gun or even home-made bomb can't inflict nowehere near damage that can inflict mage.If we will go further you will start compare kitchen knife to blight because you focus on that something is dangerous not on how much something is dangerous.        

 

Non-mages in Thedas pretty much don't have access to weapon of of mass destruction so...

 

I had that conversation 1000 times with pro-mages and it seems most pro-mages are incapable to understand difference between word dangerous and evil.First no i don't say that every mage is "evil" i say every mage is dangerous regardless of their morality ,"good" mage can do as much damage with good intentions as "evil" mage.Also not every mage will screw up but every mage can screw up and cost of such screw up is tremendous.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

"Leliana is a well-meaning fool. She will do irreparable harm to countless people in the name of "freedom". She proposes to abolish the Circles with nothing but a solemn promise from mages not to murder children. When an angry mage lashes out inside a tower, villages aren't destroyed! The Circle protects us all! Mages will die and take ordinary men with them in a war that cannot be won."

- Vivienne

 

Vivienne, if free mages are so terrible, then why hasn't Tevinter fallen into total chaos because of the supposedly inevitable creation of all those abominations? The simple fact that Tevinter still stands completely contradicts the southern Chantry's propaganda that free mages = abominations, and Vivienne is a fool for not recognizing it. Or maybe she does, but she wants to restore the system that gave her political power. I think it's more likely, though, that she really does buy into the propaganda. So why do people fail to realize that Tevinter's continued existence suggests that abominations aren't so inevitable? Even the qunari freak out about mages. What does Tevinter have that all other societies lack? A better understanding of and control over magic? Does the fear and suppression of magic ultimately lead to more cases of abominations? 

 

You are missing some important points.

 

First off, Leliana's reforms are not taking place in a society where any mages rule. Any incidents with magic killing people are going to be met with law-enforcement, governed by people who are not mages. Obviously, this is not going to ease tensions between the two groups. In Tevinter, what does it matter? The government does not care about mundanes anyway.

 

Ergo, not only is your counter-argument of Tevinter not really applicable, is not encouraging either. Their society is not really desirable to anyone who is not a well-educated mage, and sometimes not even then (Vivienne being one such detractor).

 

Also, Tevinter has Circles. Leliana's reforms do not. She disbands them without replacement (The College is eventually formed by the freed mages, not Leliana), which is what Vivienne is voicing displeasure with in the above quote. Of course, she is no fan of the eventual College either, but that is beside the point being made here. At the time of this quote, Leliana's reform is: 1.) Disband Circles; 2.) ???; 3.) Profit! It is literally the kind of plan that Isabela would come up with, but worse, because at least Isabela would propose some orgies.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Good to see some people understand that Vivienne is, at her core, a calculating politician. She is a politician first before she is a mage. Look at her actions. She plays the Grand Game well with ease and twists the social norms around her to suit her benefit easily. Vivienne real trump card is not that she is a mage, but she is a very capable and cunning politician.

 

Agreed. Vivienne's awesomeness is, with but few exceptions, on a level far above the rest in Thedas.

[The Baconer]

Good to see some people understand that Vivienne is, at her core, a calculating politician. She is a politician first before she is a mage. Look at her actions. She plays the Grand Game well with ease and twists the social norms around her to suit her benefit easily.

 

Vivienne real trump card is not that she is a mage, but she is a very capable and cunning politician.

 

If I have to use one word to describe Vivienne it would be Machiavellian.

 

Vivienne - The Machiavellian Mage.

 

Tevinter at heart, if not by birth :>

[Andromelek]

And how do you know it wasn't dumat ,from where you take information that old god were gone for long time unless you are talking about time after they went to black city what is irrelevant.Either way as far everything points on dumat tricking magisters what is pointed by chantry version and well even corypheus.

Guns are far away from most dangerous technology, avoiding even despite that they are still illegal (or at least without permission) in many countries , really dangerous stuff is pretty much out of reach for folks so no don't count you will buy nuclear bomb.Also again lets not compare a gun to mages because person with gun or even home-made bomb can't inflict nowehere near damage that can inflict mage.If we will go further you will start compare kitchen knife to blight because you focus on that something is dangerous not on how much something is dangerous.

Non-mages in Thedas pretty much don't have access to weapon of of mass destruction so...

I had that conversation 1000 times with pro-mages and it seems most pro-mages are incapable to understand difference between word dangerous and evil.First no i don't say that every mage is "evil" i say every mage is dangerous regardless of their morality ,"good" mage can do as much damage with good intentions as "evil" mage.Also not every mage will screw up but every mage can screw up and cost of such screw up is tremendous.

It was a voice, the Dragon didn't commanded him directly, (if Dragons can actually speak) It could be Dumat or someone else, there is no proof of who really was.

No, I can tell danger from evil but you seem to sugest they screw around willingly, I also know the levels of danger they supose, a normal mage is less dangerous than a dreamer, but magic it's also necessary, otherwise goodbye to seekers and Wardens, you seemingly forgot that point.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It was a voice, the Dragon didn't commanded him directly, (if Dragons can actually speak) It could be Dumat or someone else, there is no proof of who really was.

No, I can tell danger from evil but you seem to sugest they screw around willingly, I also know the levels of danger they supose, a normal mage is less dangerous than a dreamer, but magic it's also necessary, otherwise goodbye to seekers and Wardens, you seemingly forgot that point.

 

And? As i said both chantry and corypheus said it was dumat ant there is nothing that would point it was someone else so pretty much as well we can argue that maybe Andraste was male or elf.

 

Pretty much i have said that intentions doesn't matter as mage can have good intentions and still cause disaster so pretty much i never made it about morality.It doesn't seem so considering comparing them to guns.Mages aren't necessary in first place seekers aren't necessary in fact they pretty much existed to watch over circles without mages there would be no need for circles ,while mages are necessary to prepare joining pretty much in first place grey wardens exist to solve problem caused by mages so by this point mages are trying to extinguish fire they have started.     

[Livi14]

Vivienne couldn't care less about her fellow mages and their suffering. Her main concern is her own power base, and making sure that circumstances will allow her to maintain it if she can. That's why she doesn't even consider alternative solutions.

[Ariella]

Andromelek, you've a good point.

My husband is a chemist, and when he was teaching an Intro course he opened it up telling his students that he knows how to make meth, certain explosives etc, but he's not teaching them. He'd say this to forestall the usual question about it.

So, my husband, with his education can be pretty dangerous should he choose. But he chooses not no be. Anybody can be dangerous. Mages are just a bit more flashy.

And yes, Tevinter has Circles, but if one listens to Dorian they are not 'dingy mage prisons'. They're educational institutions, and it if one identifies with his Circle, it seems much like someone identifying as an alumni of a college.

And Viv's a hypocite, accepting the position of Divine makes her no different than the Imperium, a mage 'serving' the Chantry by ruling over it and the Faithful.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Andromelek, you've a good point.

My husband is a chemist, and when he was teach an Intro course he opened it up telling his students that he knows how to make meth, certain explosives etc, but he's not teaching them. He'd say this to forestall the usual question about it.

So, my husband, with his education can be pretty dangerous should he choose. But he chooses not no be. Anybody can be dangerous. Mages are just a bit more flashy.

And yes, Tevinter has Circles, but if one listens to Dorian they are not 'dingy mage prisons'. They're educational institutions, and it if one identifies with his Circle, it seems much like someone identifying as an alumni of a college.

And Viv's a hypocite, accepting the position of Divine makes her no different than the Imperium, a mage 'serving' the Chantry by ruling over it and the Faithful.

 

Circles of Magi in Southern Thedas = Your average university + state police / SWAT patrol.

 

Circles of Magi in Tevinter = Ivy League universities and Cambridge + more decadency + private security.

[Ariella]

Circles of Magi in Southern Thedas = Your average university + state police / SWAT patrol.
 
Circles of Magi in Tevinter = Ivy League universities and Cambridge + more decadency + private security.

Can you imagine the parties? That'd be worth it right there.

[Vit246]

Where did OP's quote come from?

[Dai Grepher]

"Leliana is a well-meaning fool. She will do irreparable harm to countless people in the name of "freedom". She proposes to abolish the Circles with nothing but a solemn promise from mages not to murder children. When an angry mage lashes out inside a tower, villages aren't destroyed! The Circle protects us all! Mages will die and take ordinary men with them in a war that cannot be won."

- Vivienne

 

Vivienne, if free mages are so terrible, then why hasn't Tevinter fallen into total chaos because of the supposedly inevitable creation of all those abominations? The simple fact that Tevinter still stands completely contradicts the southern Chantry's propaganda that free mages = abominations, and Vivienne is a fool for not recognizing it. Or maybe she does, but she wants to restore the system that gave her political power. I think it's more likely, though, that she really does buy into the propaganda. So why do people fail to realize that Tevinter's continued existence suggests that abominations aren't so inevitable? Even the qunari freak out about mages. What does Tevinter have that all other societies lack? A better understanding of and control over magic? Does the fear and suppression of magic ultimately lead to more cases of abominations? 

 

Because Tevinter mages rule over everyone else. They are also allowed to abuse and mistreat their slaves and underlings with no repercussions. They have an outlet for their evil, and it is accepted through force.

 

That's exactly why Vivienne is right. A free mage in Ferelden can do enormous damage, and an angry mob can execute the wrong person for it. That's how it would be everywhere else as well, until the day the mages take over and adopt Tevinter practices of enslaving and segregating non-mages.

 

That's what Vivienne is trying to prevent. It isn't just the risk of abominations.
 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Andromelek, you've a good point.

My husband is a chemist, and when he was teaching an Intro course he opened it up telling his students that he knows how to make meth, certain explosives etc, but he's not teaching them. He'd say this to forestall the usual question about it.

So, my husband, with his education can be pretty dangerous should he choose. But he chooses not no be. Anybody can be dangerous. Mages are just a bit more flashy.

And yes, Tevinter has Circles, but if one listens to Dorian they are not 'dingy mage prisons'. They're educational institutions, and it if one identifies with his Circle, it seems much like someone identifying as an alumni of a college.

And Viv's a hypocite, accepting the position of Divine makes her no different than the Imperium, a mage 'serving' the Chantry by ruling over it and the Faithful.

Can your husband destroy the city , put your nation in danger or threaten the world?

I can already tell the answer is no , anybody and anything can be dangerous question how much dangerous and that is pretty much reason why kitchen knife is treated differently than nuclear bomb. 

[SgtSteel91]

Where did OP's quote come from?

 

When talking to Vivienne about the Chantry wanting to make Cassandra or Leliana Divine she'll initially start talking about Cassandra. You have the option of saying Leliana is a good candidate as well and Vivienne will respond with the quote as well as disapproval.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Can your husband destroy the city , put your nation in danger or threaten the world?

I can already tell the answer is no , anybody and anything can be dangerous question how much dangerous and that is pretty much reason why kitchen knife is treated differently than nuclear bomb. 

 

Most mages can't do that either.