Comments like these are why I don't take pro Templars seriously
I'm a Tevinter fan first and foremost 
For what it's worth, I've heard crazy (and often racist) pro-genocide comments directed towards the Qunari from both pro and anti-Templar people during my time on BSN.
Impossible. When it comes to the Qun genocide is the only reasonable response. Its those who advocate coexistence that are the crazies; might as well cuddle darkspawn while you're at it.
What even if true doesn't change fact it is living rock.
Also statement "who have mages" isn't pretty much what you said here , what i have said it that simple mage could have summon demon or damage veil , and as i said none of that matter because once again rock wraiths aren't normal humans.
And? That they can be solved with brute force doesn't mean they aren't threat to the world/society blights can be solved same way .
Corypheus remembers those events so well for certain no amnesia here as you would like to claim ,also you talk about this any prove that it was written before blight because i don't see date being provided here... and what is by tevinter precived by as voice of dumat and same way of communication old gods communicate... I commented on it as i said there is nothing that would point it was demon as far as i said both chantry and corypheus confirmed that it was dumat so until i will see something that would point toward "it was a demon" im willing to go with "it was dumat" as both cory and chantry claim.
No, it doesn't you are right but doesn't change fact that doesn't make reaver or templar a mage or at least not in a sense mages were are speaking about , pretty much reaver use dragon blood to enhance their physical feats while templars use lyrium to gain anti-magical abilities ,none of them pose threat that mages do.Of course reavers are dangerous on much lower level than mages but still should be treated as dangerous individuals and dealt with.As for Sha-Brytol as i said i can't speak of titan because we have know too little, but for sure those guys are dangerous (and are treated as so because you kill them) but as far it goes pretty much they are like reavers and as far they seem pose threat on individual level rather than on larger scale.
If i recall i didn't said he was unjustified (in first place i know nothing about that character outside things you have told me once) from what i remeber what i said that your comparison of alistair with that guy based on what you said me is ridiculous because alistair killed simply 1 person that was far away from being innocent and you acted as alistair killed millions of "innocent" people.
It was major advantage thedas had over qunari from what i recall it was somewhere stated but i don't remember source.Also tevinter was crushed by qunari and taken over by them for over 40 years so mages pretty so much for mages help and that was pretty much when they were in war with rest of thedas.In first place thedas as i said have to deal with crap that mages are causing like blights or another disasters and it would be in much better shape without mages ,then we have fact pretty much mages prevent technological progress among humans during conversation that hawke and dwarf it is shown.
Also killing mages in tevinter isn't possibility yet ,as far closing borders and putting mage hunters should provide defence against tevinter mages running around outside tevinter.Then humans can foucus on progress and start moving forward like dwarves and qunari.
Oh, right forgot that those mages that will born after will be immortal.
No, but they will be children. Mages don't discover their magical abilities until they are around 8 years of age. So you would advocate murdering innocent children then? I think their parents would resist, as would many other non-mages.
My point was that you said they have the power of a nuke, what if would be true would help them to deal with individuals that turned into a headache.
Corypheus has some degree of amnesia, as Cole points out, his case is not as bad as the Architect's but he still being unable to remember everything and remains confused. and no, the notes lack of date, but is evident that the notes found on the Fade take place before or short after the Magisters' incursion to the Black City, as for the notes of Razikale's temple, while they lack of date, they were written on times when the religion to the Old Gods remained and Ferelden was under Tevinter control, so, it had to take place before Andraste rose in power, the cult to the Old Gods was weakened by the Blight and was eventually displaced by the Imperial Chantry short after Andraste's death, the territory itself is part of the lands she conquered.
The only reason why the Sha-Brytol do not suppose a threat for society is because they are sedentary, but they have kept the darkspawn away from their home in the Deep Roads, not even Golems achieved such thing, and pretty sure that their crossbows and the weapons they use to produce earthquakes would let a mess comparable to the mess the mages can unleash.
I said that even a monster like him did not fall on treachery, (which is something Alistair does even if we only count Origins) and I didn't say she was innocent at all, but she was innocent of the things she was being blamed for, pretty sure the deal was between Flemeth and Maric and he agreed and decided to keep his word, while the Blight was unleashed by the Architect, so no, her actions did not screw Ferelden.
As you say, it was , correct me if I'm wrong but I think that on the Qunari Wars the only ones who fought were the horned creatures, now they not only have Kossith but also humans and elves converted to the Qun, and those also are being used as spies, so the Qunari may have tactics to back stab some countries and the same cannot be applied to them since their inner circle is formed by three persons that can't be corrupted or replaced by Theodosians. The Magisters are the ones to blame for spread the Blight but not for create it, the Qunari are also concerned of Blights and story has shown that nations let aside their differences to fight Blights, of course, after the Archdemon dies comes the part where the big nations double cross the others and conquer them. Also mages preventing technological progress is not entirely truth, nor fair, Qunari have both mages and technology, if the humans can't pretty much would be because they are lazy and many won't try to use their brains as long a mage is able to solve their problems, if the point was that they don't allow it because someone has to clean a mess some mage left behind is not truth either, the Blight barley affects the surface when there is not any Archdemon awake, Dwarves have to fight darkspawn every day and yet they still have technological progress.
If the idea is only kill the southern mages that would be unfair, they haven't even achieved to spread a disease like the magisters, the most they did was a crappy civil war that the templars were easily winning, the only things that deny them victory were first that their commander was slain and replaced by a douchebag who wanted to see the world burning and second that Ferelden decided to give shelter to the mage rebellion.
Once again that they can "explode" and blow up nation in process doesn't mean it will solve their problems.
And yet he remembers those events clearly and speaks about them so it is no amnesia.What notes on the fade and what is evident about it? You realize that is absolutely no evidence not even implying it was written before magisters went to black city ,old gods cults reminded even after magisters went to black city ,andraste was born almost 200 years after first blight started.So pretty much there is more or less 200 years between Andraste birth and time magisters went to the black city.
Treachery isn't something always necessarily make you be villain it the warden for an example turning on crazy cultists or shale on warden.She wasn't innocent of that, once again it was her and flemeth schemes were reason why ferelden lost competent king.
You are correct at least partly ,they do recruit elves and humans but pretty much rather insignificant numbers overall but qunari recruited members of other races from get go willingly or not.I don't know why we venture into their spies that while useful for qunari don't have value in our current discussion.In first place you have no knowledge how and what created taint so you can't speak if they didn't create it and once again even if they didn't irevelant as they still were one responsible for destruction that darkspawn brought into thedas and for many other destructions.It is truth, qunari have mages because they don't waste anything but they don't want depend on magic, so pretty much qunari mages are nothing more than weapons they use because they don't want waste anything , their culture is running on technological progress not magic they fear.Humans don't progress because simply because of attitude pointed by hawke ,if mages are gone simply human will start progress to satisfy their needs.
Once again it isn't about what they did, only about threat they pose to society, mages constantly cause disasters that demolish society and pretty much are threat for reast of the world.And good templars were winning it showed they could fight mages sadly if only could keep mages under control but i blame insufficient system.
No, but they will be children. Mages don't discover their magical abilities until they are around 8 years of age. So you would advocate murdering innocent children then? I think their parents would resist, as would many other non-mages.
Children or no they are a threat and even better child will be easier to put down than an adult mage.I advocate for an eleminating a great threat that are mages whether they are children or not is irevelant to that.Considering that great numbers of parents will hate their child just because they are mage i wouldn't count on that , of course some parents will but under proper system you can significantly lower numbers of such parents and properly deal with those who will.
Lol advocating killing all children mages. And people wonder why I am pro mage
Morality goes away when it comes to world safety.
Morality goes away when it comes to world safety.
Morality NEVER goes away.
The only thing that changes is the philosophy on what "the good" is. But when we discuss such terms as what is or is not moral, the standards must universally apply to everyone regardless of origin or ability, or the moral theory is flawed.
It goes away all the time and crappy things are done for various reasons , pretty much Hiroshima or be it enhanced interrogation techniques and that is just few drops in entire sea. 
KomandorShepard's ideas may be vile but at least he doesn't give false hope.
Children or no they are a threat and even better child will be easier to put down than an adult mage.I advocate for an eleminating a great threat that are mages whether they are children or not is irevelant to that.Considering that great numbers of parents will hate their child just because they are mage i wouldn't count on that , of course some parents will but under proper system you can significantly lower numbers of such parents and properly deal with those who will.
I don't think they would be. Aside from having to find people cold enough to kill innocent children, you would also have the family and friends of the child fighting to keep them safe.
All it would take are a few parents in high places to undo anything the prior tyrants would have established.
Lol advocating killing all children mages. And people wonder why I am pro mage
Vivienne would consider herself pro-mage. Being against child murder doesn't automatically make you pro-mage.
I don't think they would be. Aside from having to find people cold enough to kill innocent children, you would also have the family and friends of the child fighting to keep them safe.
All it would take are a few parents in high places to undo anything the prior tyrants would have established.
Three games worth of lore would suggest that finding people willing to kill a child for having magic is about as difficult as finding water in a well.
I don't think they would be. Aside from having to find people cold enough to kill innocent children, you would also have the family and friends of the child fighting to keep them safe.
All it would take are a few parents in high places to undo anything the prior tyrants would have established.
They already do so that is beyond question ,now add little indoctrination from chantry that mages are evil and it is maker will that should help.Aside of that templars already are prepared to kill children ,at least enough of them to perform annulment ,it is nothing that proper training can't solve.
Not rly, nobles can't do anything about chantry taking away their children ,at best they can try to hide them in first place it is scandal for noble to have mage child and pretty much that fact ruined Amells most powerful family in kirkwall.
when we discuss such terms as what is or is not moral, the standards must universally apply to everyone regardless of origin or ability, or the moral theory is flawed.
Not really.
Vivienne would consider herself pro-mage. Being against child murder doesn't automatically make you pro-mage.
Vivienne is pro-mage because she exagerates her servility to non-mage supremacists? Thedas is heavily depandant on magic but stifle mages out of fear. Mages perform all the crucial labor and the Chantry reaps the lion's share of rewards since they have a sword to their throats and a hand in their pockets. Non-mage supremacists use Vivienne as a token example that their Circle ideology is fair, that mages are equal, but since non-mages have the ability to deny, incarcerate, or kill mages with flimsy justification, mages are always stifled unless they are exaggerate servility. Mage and non-mage equality is no more real than the seemingly laisezz-faire opportunity for advancement in Tevinter. Vivienne knows this. She's not pro-mage, she's pro-Vivienne. She doesn't see herself as part of the Circle. She sees herself as nobility. She doesn't associate with the common mage no more than the nobility sees themselves as part of the peasantry. Even if she's sincere, her belief that to mock racism by exaggerating servility to their oppressors is false hope. They are invisible to their supremacists, and the invisible are easily exploitable and expendable. Sure certain individuals such as Vivienne can play the game to garner priveleges for herself to get specialized treatment, but everyone else is left a prisoner and even Vivienne because of her reinforcing that mages must be servile to their non-mage oppressors, can never play the Game to it's fullest extent. Thus meaningful change never really happens.
My point was that you said they have the power of a nuke, what if would be true would help them to deal with individuals that turned into a headache.
Corypheus has some degree of amnesia, as Cole points out, his case is not as bad as the Architect's but he still being unable to remember everything and remains confused. and no, the notes lack of date, but is evident that the notes found on the Fade take place before or short after the Magisters' incursion to the Black City, as for the notes of Razikale's temple, while they lack of date, they were written on times when the religion to the Old Gods remained and Ferelden was under Tevinter control, so, it had to take place before Andraste rose in power, the cult to the Old Gods was weakened by the Blight and was eventually displaced by the Imperial Chantry short after Andraste's death, the territory itself is part of the lands she conquered.
The only reason why the Sha-Brytol do not suppose a threat for society is because they are sedentary, but they have kept the darkspawn away from their home in the Deep Roads, not even Golems achieved such thing, and pretty sure that their crossbows and the weapons they use to produce earthquakes would let a mess comparable to the mess the mages can unleash.
I said that even a monster like him did not fall on treachery, (which is something Alistair does even if we only count Origins) and I didn't say she was innocent at all, but she was innocent of the things she was being blamed for, pretty sure the deal was between Flemeth and Maric and he agreed and decided to keep his word, while the Blight was unleashed by the Architect, so no, her actions did not screw Ferelden.
As you say, it was , correct me if I'm wrong but I think that on the Qunari Wars the only ones who fought were the horned creatures, now they not only have Kossith but also humans and elves converted to the Qun, and those also are being used as spies, so the Qunari may have tactics to back stab some countries and the same cannot be applied to them since their inner circle is formed by three persons that can't be corrupted or replaced by Theodosians. The Magisters are the ones to blame for spread the Blight but not for create it, the Qunari are also concerned of Blights and story has shown that nations let aside their differences to fight Blights, of course, after the Archdemon dies comes the part where the big nations double cross the others and conquer them. Also mages preventing technological progress is not entirely truth, nor fair, Qunari have both mages and technology, if the humans can't pretty much would be because they are lazy and many won't try to use their brains as long a mage is able to solve their problems, if the point was that they don't allow it because someone has to clean a mess some mage left behind is not truth either, the Blight barley affects the surface when there is not any Archdemon awake, Dwarves have to fight darkspawn every day and yet they still have technological progress.
If the idea is only kill the southern mages that would be unfair, they haven't even achieved to spread a disease like the magisters, the most they did was a crappy civil war that the templars were easily winning, the only things that deny them victory were first that their commander was slain and replaced by a douchebag who wanted to see the world burning and second that Ferelden decided to give shelter to the mage rebellion.
You wrote all that?
OP, please name one instance in which blood magic is used in the DA universe, be it in-game or in given history/lore, and it did not lead to something terrible. Just one! I sure can't think of one.
OP, please name one instance in which blood magic is used in the DA universe, be it in-game or in given history/lore, and it did not lead to something terrible. Just one! I sure can't think of one.
OP, please name one instance in which blood magic is used in the DA universe, be it in-game or in given history/lore, and it did not lead to something terrible. Just one! I sure can't think of one.
Well there is Malcolm Hawke that used blood magic to imprison Corypheus but well outside perhaps protagonists Malcolm is only one good apple among blood mages.
Again, all they needed was to blow up some dudes who were spoiling their plans, and yet they couldn't.Once again that they can "explode" and blow up nation in process doesn't mean it will solve their problems.
And yet he remembers those events clearly and speaks about them so it is no amnesia.What notes on the fade and what is evident about it? You realize that is absolutely no evidence not even implying it was written before magisters went to black city ,old gods cults reminded even after magisters went to black city ,andraste was born almost 200 years after first blight started.So pretty much there is more or less 200 years between Andraste birth and time magisters went to the black city.
Treachery isn't something always necessarily make you be villain it the warden for an example turning on crazy cultists or shale on warden.She wasn't innocent of that, once again it was her and flemeth schemes were reason why ferelden lost competent king.
You are correct at least partly ,they do recruit elves and humans but pretty much rather insignificant numbers overall but qunari recruited members of other races from get go willingly or not.I don't know why we venture into their spies that while useful for qunari don't have value in our current discussion.In first place you have no knowledge how and what created taint so you can't speak if they didn't create it and once again even if they didn't irevelant as they still were one responsible for destruction that darkspawn brought into thedas and for many other destructions.It is truth, qunari have mages because they don't waste anything but they don't want depend on magic, so pretty much qunari mages are nothing more than weapons they use because they don't want waste anything , their culture is running on technological progress not magic they fear.Humans don't progress because simply because of attitude pointed by hawke ,if mages are gone simply human will start progress to satisfy their needs.
Once again it isn't about what they did, only about threat they pose to society, mages constantly cause disasters that demolish society and pretty much are threat for reast of the world.And good templars were winning it showed they could fight mages sadly if only could keep mages under control but i blame insufficient system.
Children or no they are a threat and even better child will be easier to put down than an adult mage.I advocate for an eleminating a great threat that are mages whether they are children or not is irevelant to that.Considering that great numbers of parents will hate their child just because they are mage i wouldn't count on that , of course some parents will but under proper system you can significantly lower numbers of such parents and properly deal with those who will.
Impossible. When it comes to the Qun genocide is the only reasonable response. Its those who advocate coexistence that are the crazies; might as well cuddle darkspawn while you're at it.
Fully agree. You cannot negotiate with an ideology / collective whose central tenet is to expand all over the world via force and then turning people into unthinking individuals fit for a role.
You either encourage the Qunari to become Tal-Vashoth or you wipe them out. Tis' that simple. Which is why my Inquisitor will personally enjoy slaughtering Qunari soldiers in the upcoming Tresspasser DLC.
You wrote all that?
Thedas is heavily depandant on magic but stifle mages out of fear.
Mages perform all the crucial labor and the Chantry reaps the lion's share of rewards since they have a sword to their throats and a hand in their pockets.
The only thing which mages do that is absolutely crucial are the grey warden initiations. Everything else is not only high end luxury services but services which the Chantry doesn't even force individual mages to provide. As for the lion's share of the reward, it goes right back into the circles to finance the mages and the vastly superior standard of living they enjoy compared to pretty much everyone who isn't a noble.
No it isn't. The Chantry tries to limit the use of magic. The fact only influential nobles can access mage services should be a sign of that. Tranquil made goods are more common but even those are rare and expensive. The only place that is heavily dependant on magic is Tevinter and purposefully so, where they prefer to maintain most infrastructure using magic as opposed to the more conventional means everyone else uses.
Magic is the most valued commodity and the nobility are the only ones allowed to distribute and enjoy it? Sounds like a raw deal. The Chantry profits from such a relationship: nobles get exclusive power, chantry gets political favors and tithes from the 1%, and mages are oppressed and the peasantry dependent on the 1% for all their magical goods and services. That is corruption and mistreatment which I know gives you a hard on.
The only thing which mages do that is absolutely crucial are the grey warden initiations. Everything else is not only high end luxury services but services which the Chantry doesn't even force individual mages to provide. As for the lion's share of the reward, it goes right back into the circles to finance the mages and the vastly superior standard of living they enjoy compared to pretty much everyone who isn't a noble.
Luxury services like health care, magical enchantments, weapons of war, increased productivity via creation magic. These should be public services available to everyone but the Chantry hoards it for itself and it's sycophant minions. And the Circle, what choice do they have but to accept whatever tariffs, taxes, or other ways the Chantry can wet it's beak on the mages' hard work? They're prisoners marginalized and ostracized by society. If they don't contribute, the Circle won't provide them a living, only a prison cell. The circle isn't some form of welfare, it's penal labour. B.S. someone else about your idealized vision of Circle life, if life is so luxurious there why are so many apostates trying to escape it?
Again, all they needed was to blow up some dudes who were spoiling their plans, and yet they couldn't.
I'm not saying otherwise, but he doesn't remember everything, you can't argue about that, Maker or not, someone had to throw that sh*t on him, and pretty sure he doesn't remember that. Yes the cults reminded but they were uncertain of why the Old Gods abandoned them, and they didn't say they actually met the Old Gods, they say they communicated with them in the same way the Avvars do.
Perhaps treachery doesn't turn people on villains but still is despicable, and it's a good reason to hang up someone, better reason than manipulating and lying by the way (just ask to military and religious), Alistair fell lower than the others because it was his duty stop the Blight and because spare a traitor to use him as pawn is not as bad as provide an artifact that crushes free will to make tank-like soldiers and that clearly is going to be abused nor destroying permanently an ancient relic. And yes she had nothing to do with that, she was no telepath nor was able to be in many places at the same time, she only protected Dragons and the plan was Flemeth's not hers, and even Flemeth can't tell for certain the future, nor she used any blood magic to convince Maric, he decided willingly keep his word and leave Ferelden, and no one knew the Architect would screw around with Urthemiel, and that's why I compared Alistair with the Primordial, their victims are not free from all fault but they apply them faults that were not theirs, they just were related with someone that "did it",of course they have a different number of victims, and different levels of intellect, power, cruelty and ultimately one has more real reasons than the other.
Humans do not progress in technology because they are lazy and lack of the will to do so, the other races have magical artifacts, are really more screwed than humans and yet they progress, Qunari, Elves and Dwarves tend to despise humans over the other species for good reason.
And while they are dangerous they are not the only ones who lead to massacres, the Chantry sends Exalted Marches against anything that threats their religion and power (even for the murder of a single dwarf brother that tried to spread the word of the Maker on a place with its own beliefs and that is a commercial partner rather than a follower of the Chantry) Orlesians do not do things anything better, Gaspard and Celene are no mages and their struggle let the Dales as a misery, and stupid people with authority for certain brings more problems than mages, Fiona began a war that she could not win for being stupid, not for being a mage.
Now we are talking about killing children, charming, of course morality matters, even in war, that's why there is a legislation to forbid any try to build battle droids and the army doesn't use biological weapons, because droids, viruses and bacterias lack of any criteria of what is right and what is wrong or where is the line to stop attacking an enemy.
<facepalm> I repeat myself for third time that their disasters can destroy whole nations doesn't mean mage is physical god , so fact that you are walking nuke in human form doesn't mean you can defeat normal person in combat only that they will cause disaster when they will explode...
I don't have to argue about that ,he remebers events that are important in this discussion that is all it matters ,also no one had throw anything on him pretty much it all could be result of his actions and playing with magic/things (or both) he shouldn't.Well sure but none of this points it was before black city trip.
Of course treachery is reason to be mad on invividual ,and from what i know you can kill alistair but as i said treachery isn't always despicable and pointed examples.I don't know even what about you are talking here so... .Once again she was reason she was scheming with flemeth and she worked with flemeth so pretty much now you are saying if you are helping your boss murder people you are innocent because it was your boss plan and you were just helping him.
False , if you remove mages humans will technologically progress because there will be demand ,so if that was reason humans wouldn't progress without mages as well.In fact laziness was reason why humans came up with certain technology.Once again another cultures with technological progress doesn't not use mages to solve their problems , dwarves because they don't have mages and qunari because as i said they fear mages and don't want their society to depend on mages.Also it isn't true in first place, qunari don't despise humans as pretty much most cultures that aren't qunari including elves and dwarves , elves despise humans because pretty much bad blood between them and dwarves don't despise humans in first place.
From what i know Chantry have lead EM against 3 forces Tevinter Empire after they broke from chantry and started screw with mages (so pretty much against mages) , Against Dales what i will grant you was normal war between nations , and qunari that you are talking about and attacked thedas.EM you are talking about never happened pretty much it was just epilogue that were said by devs to be just a rumors.Orlais fought wars for expansion (as pretty much qunari) while mages disasters were not expansion but vast destruction caused either by single mage or group of them.
Fiona began war because she was mage , stupid mage if she wasn't mage in first place she would have no means to start war and cause as much damage as she did ,avoiding that she would have no reason to start war.
Well i see no problem here.Not rly, in first place many laws are broken by governments in order to protect nations. Second that in first place most laws doesn't exist because of morality only because of pragmatism ,so pretty much laws that say you can't kill are there not because killing others is "evil" only that it would lead to chaos if everyone was allowed to kill.
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