275 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

Beware the spoilers from the Trepasser when you come back.

lol. I'll be on a forum blackout when I get back until I beat it.

But thanks anyway.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Beware the spoilers from the Trepasser when you come back.

People are already datamining things from the patch. If you hate Solas, you are probably going to hate him more.

[Vit246]

People are already datamining things from the patch. If you hate Solas, you are probably going to hate him more.

 

Whats he up to now?

[thesuperdarkone2]

Whats he up to now?

You really want to know? I can pm you if you want to know

[Boost32]

Its already happening, the spoilers are coming!

And I dont know what Solas did or want to do, but I already know it cant be good and he is another mage who need to die.

[Andromelek]

Its already happening, the spoilers are coming!
And I dont know what Solas did or want to do, but I already know it cant be good and he is another mage who need to die.

Hope I can do something like bring him to Anaris, wherever and whatever he is.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Its already happening, the spoilers are coming!
And I dont know what Solas did or want to do, but I already know it cant be good and he is another mage who need to die.

Considering the devs said solas's story will continue after this dlc, you are going to be disappointed

[Boost32]

Hope I can do something like bring him to Anaris, wherever and whatever he is.

Devs already said Solas' history is not going to be finished in the DLC, they are saving him to the next game(s).
Hopefully the next protagonist can kill Solas before the God of Failure can do more damage.

[Boost32]

Considering the devs said solas's story will continue after this dlc, you are going to be disappointed

I already knew it, even before the Devs announcement.
But if they dont allow me to do that in the next game, I will be disappointed.

[Andromelek]

Devs already said Solas' history is not going to be finished in the DLC, they are saving him to the next game(s).
Hopefully the next protagonist can kill Solas before the God of Failure can do more damage.

I know, just pointed out that if the dude that he betrayed first could put his hands on him, would be more interesting.

[Vit246]

You really want to know? I can pm you if you want to know

yes.

[Wulfram]

Eh, kind of is, actually. So long as said fanatics aren't waging a war of extermination, which the Templars that would be accepting surrender wouldn't be, that's pretty much par for course for any failed rebellion- the rebels are expected to go back under the authority of the regime and military authority that existed before.
 
It's certainly not popular, but it's hardly a radical position. The Templars are a professional military that the Mages rebelled against. The mages didn't win. Calling the Templars fanatics is just rhetoric on a timeless context.

The Templars don't appear to be accepting surrender, beyond tranquility. Or at least they're bad enough at it that mages who disagree with the rebellion see no choice but to go along with it.

Treating the mages as conquered rebels is hardly moderate, particularly considering the Templars are equally rebels.

Calling the Templars fanatics is not just rhetoric, it's very much relevant. The Templars are not just some professional military force. They rebelled against the head of their faith for the purpose of exterminating the mages. Their actions and character are directly relevant to their continuing role

I'm guessing you're not an American, or a citizen of the UK, or any other country that's had a major rebellion, civil war, or insurrection that was put down by military.
 
There's a pretty long history of a insurrections being successfully put down and military authority re-asserted. Most insurrections and insurgencies fail, actually. While all regimes (governments regardless of moral character) ultimately fail, most overcome and endure more uprisings than not.

A military occupation isn't the same as a police force. Cracking down harder on the mages might work, but that's not what Cassandra is proposing and it's not moderate.

And of course the Templars aren't a regular military. They're fanatics.

Also, military occupations aren't imposed on people who've effectively all got invisible AK47s. That changes things quite considerably. It doesn't just give them more reason to resist, but it also gives the occupiers more reasons to be twitchy and paranoid.
 

Pretending that a templar-like organization that uses lyrium for anti-magic (because that's the only mass-producible and systemically available means for anti-magic), answers to the Chantry (which is the only instition with the international legitimacy, pocketbook, and ability to oversee and run the Circles), and is composed of the same sort of people and in many cases the same people who composed the Templars (because they're used to it, good at it, and care about it), is a 'fresh start' is kind of a farce. The Tevinter Emperium could change the drapes and call the Magistrum 'the Happy Hour Club', but it'd still be Tevinter and still be the Magistrum in practice even if not in name.

Changing names and banners and personnel would be a gesture, but not an empty one if it's accompanied by genuine and significant policy changes.

Symbols matter. A lot, when a genuine moderate solution requires that the practices of the old Templar order is not continued. To keep the Templar name and banners is to excuse their acts and forget or devalue their victims, and once you start on that basis what hope is there that Cassandra's "reforms" will have any staying power?

Also, there are other people who can run and pay for "templars" than the Chantry. The nations of Thedas, for one - there are negatives to that, but not necessarily worse than those demonstrated by the Chantry. Or better, the Circles themselves. Leliana setting the mages free without obligation is rather reckless, but setting them free on terms that place on them the burden of preventing magical chaos is what an actual moderate solution would look like to me.

Any Divine other than Leliana- and possibly even Leliana once the honeymoon period of the 'for now' qualifier wears off- is going to be asserting its authority over an old system with the Templars.

That seems to be rather my point? Cassandra's system ultimately boils down to being much the same as the old one. Just with the addition of there being a lot more reason for hatred between the Templars and their prisoners. That's not moderate.

[TobiTobsen]

The Templars don't appear to be accepting surrender, beyond tranquility. Or at least they're bad enough at it that mages who disagree with the rebellion see no choice but to go along with it.

Treating the mages as conquered rebels is hardly moderate, particularly considering the Templars are equally rebels.

Calling the Templars fanatics is not just rhetoric, it's very much relevant. The Templars are not just some professional military force. They rebelled against the head of their faith for the purpose of exterminating the mages. Their actions and character are directly relevant to their continuing role

 

The Templars actually accept surrender. It's the entire purpose of them going to war: restoring the status quo.

Keep in mind that the Libertarians and Resolutionst are also rather happy to murder their own colleagues when they don't swallow their "freedom or death!" sermon hook, line and sinker.

 

The Templars and Seekers backed out of the bilateral Nevarran accord that bound them to the Chantry after the Divine tried to distract them while her right hand assassin murdered Templars for doing their job.

Quitting your job after your boss actively hindered you and tried to murder for doing it in the first place is hardly what I would call "rebelling".

[Barquiel]

The Templars actually accept surrender. It's the entire purpose of them going to war: restoring the status quo.
Keep in mind that the Libertarians and Resolutionst are also rather happy to murder their own colleagues when they don't swallow their "freedom or death!" sermon hook, line and sinker.

Minaeve says people like her had nowhere to go because the templars killed everyone. That doesn't sound like "accepting surrender".

[Boost32]

Minaeve says people like her had nowhere to go because the templars killed everyone. That doesn't sound like "accepting surrender".

http://dragonage.wik...est_from_Hasmal

[Barquiel]

I know there are some templars who chose to stay with the chantry and didn't rebel with Lambert and the Seekers. The problem are the rebel templars lead by Lucius who went on ethnic cleansing rampages for months.

[Wulfram]

The Templars actually accept surrender. It's the entire purpose of them going to war: restoring the status quo.
Keep in mind that the Libertarians and Resolutionst are also rather happy to murder their own colleagues when they don't swallow their "freedom or death!" sermon hook, line and sinker.

The status quo includes slaughtering all the mages in the event of rebellion. And as far as I know we encounter no prisoner mages that might be expected if the Templar's accepted surrender.
 

The Templars and Seekers backed out of the bilateral Nevarran accord that bound them to the Chantry after the Divine tried to distract them while her right hand assassin murdered Templars for doing their job.
Quitting your job after your boss actively hindered you and tried to murder for doing it in the first place is hardly what I would call "rebelling".

The Divine hindered them in murder and treason, not "their jobs". The Templars have no authority to act in the absence of the Chantry's backing. And quitting your job means stopping doing your job, not going on a continent wide killing spree.

[TobiTobsen]

I know there are some templars who chose to stay with the chantry and didn't rebel with Lambert and the Seekers. The problem are the templar rebells lead by Lucius who went on ethnic cleansing rampages for months.

 

We're calling the Mage-Templar War a one sided "ethnic cleansing rampage" now?

 

I would really like to see how you want to back up that hyperbole.

[Boost32]

I know there are some templars who chose to stay with the chantry and didn't rebel with Lambert and the Seekers. The problem are the rebel templars lead by Lucius who went on ethnic cleansing rampages for months.

Hasmal templars left the Chantry with the others templars.

[Boost32]

The status quo includes slaughtering all the mages in the event of rebellion. And as far as I know we encounter no prisoner mages that might be expected if the Templar's accepted surrender. The Divine hindered them in murder and treason, not "their jobs". The Templars have no authority to act in the absence of the Chantry's backing. And quitting your job means stopping doing your job, not going on a continent wide killing spree.

Look at the Hasmal templars.
The Divine sent assassins to kill templars, she betrayed them, they own nothing to her.

[Barquiel]

We're calling the Mage-Templar War a one sided "ethnic cleansing rampage" now?
 
I would really like to see how you want to back up that hyperbole.

How would you call the systematic killing of all mages in a location, no matter their affiliation? The templars never tried to capture any mages, or arrest them. They tried to kill them. We hear that story again and again in the game from mages who didn't support the rebellion (Minaeve, the elderly mage in the tavern, Connor, Ellendra,...). The only exceptions are mages who were willing to fight for the templars.

[Aren]

I love Leliana as a character but i also don't believe that her approach as Divine is a good one for mages just as i do take everything that Vivienne as to said with a very skeptical mind,she is just a player of the great game corrupted as those nobles of Orlais,as sad as may sound i will lose Cassandra to give her to Thedas.

[Boost32]

How would you call the systematic killing of all mages in a location, no matter their affiliation? The templars never tried to capture any mages, or arrest them. They tried to kill them. We hear that story again and again in the game from mages who didn't support the rebellion (Minaeve, the elderly mage in the tavern, Connor, Ellendra,...). The only exceptions are mages who were willing to fight for the templars.

Do I really need to mention the Hasmal templars again?

[Wulfram]

Look at the Hasmal templars.
The Divine sent assassins to kill templars, she betrayed them, they own nothing to her.

Loyalists to the Divine whose actions contrast with that of the rebel Templars. And even they talk about having custody of loyalist mages, there's no indication that they accept the surrender of rebels.

The Templars betrayed the Divine first. And if they reject the Chantry's authority then they have no legitimate source for their own. The appropriate course if they feel unable to continue to offer their loyalty to the Chantry is to resign. Or possibly to place themselves at the service of the relevant national government.

[Boost32]

Loyalists to the Divine whose actions contrast with that of the rebel Templars. And even they talk about having custody of loyalist mages, there's no indication that they accept the surrender of rebels.The Templars betrayed the Divine first. And if they reject the Chantry's authority then they have no legitimate source for their own. The appropriate course if they feel unable to continue to offer their loyalty to the Chantry is to resign. Or possibly to place themselves at the service of the relevant national government.

They left the Chantry, they aren't the ones who stayed. So they accepted those mages but wouldn't accept others? Lol, you really need to find a better excuse.

They were betrayed first, the Divine was alienating them and later killed some of them. When a boss tries to kill those who are under his/her leadership, you cant expect them to stay loyal.
And they were right to go after those mages, look at Redcliff, they were dangerous and should have stayed at the Circle. The bad thing is that they followed first the idiot Seeker Lambert and after the idiot Seeker Lucius.